Producer's Letter - 5/21/15

[CeltEireson]

Letting your normal spells scale in to epics might get some silly effect and give more powercreep. Adding epic spells to use instead of your normal spells give devs controll over the power. Epic spells should be tied to character levels and not work like EDs. This way we could progress when we entered epics.

The only problem with going down that route is that you are effectively consigning the vast majority of spells to the bin because they can't scale up into epics and the problem is only going to get worse as we move to a cap of 30 - generally mob hitpoints scale faster than spellpower does, so without increases in damage related to caster level all existing spells are going to suffer. I would prefer not to be in a situation where only a small handful of spells were relevant in epics, it kind of defeats the reason to have the scores of different damage spells that we currently do. And that applies not just to damage spells - many of the buffs are also getting less and less relevant - many items now come with blur or even a few with lesser displacement, spells like barkskin and shield of faith top out at +5 whereas items go to +10, resist only goes to 30 whereas items go to 50 - the list goes on.

Also I'd prefer that we not have to spend a feat to gain one spell - a feat to open up the option of epic spells would be preferable. If that's not possible I'd rather they just made any new spells level 9 ones and have no cap on the maximum caster level - doing it that way means theres no power creep at lower levels but theyr scale into epics. I'd also prefer that some of the existing spells that currently cap at level 20 be unlocked, or capped at level 25. It would also encourage people to use the magister destiny rather than shiradi as the magister one provides caster levels whereas shiradi doesn't

[axel15810]

This right here is the problem. Developers don't know what "middle ground" is. They buff one style so much that everything else is underpowered/inefficient. Once it was melees, then casters, then it was ranged, now it's melees.

I don't know if anyone knows what "middle ground" really is. With a game like this with thousands of build possibilities, balancing the classes in this game is an incredibly difficult task. Even though stuff like Pally, Barb and Heavy armor have clearly swung too much in the other direction the game is definitely more balanced now than it was a year ago where we only had a handful of very good builds.

[Drakos]

Not even monk? I really don't think that you are lying but to be honest it's really hard to believe it at this point.

Not too long ago the Monk was on top, and everyone claimed that the Devs only liked Monks. Not apparently the Devs hate monks because they have been dethroned. I sure wish the Devs would make up their mind on who they liked/hated . Not every class can be on the top all the time we need to understand that as a community.

[Silverleafeon]

My Epic Scaling math is flawed, it did not take into account items.

So add in item of say 75 spell powerish --> 150/138/138 favorite spell power / 80 usp

Still the math shows that the Dev team needs to take this subject to the "Round Table" and ponder it before they settle in on EB figures even if they don't reply or act upon such till later on...

thanks for reading


minor hurt my finger fixing chainsaw -- will heal quickly but im out for a week or less

Sev's tree looks very interesting sorry cannot review atm

[Wizza]

I don't know if anyone knows what "middle ground" really is. With a game like this with thousands of build possibilities, balancing the classes in this game is an incredibly difficult task. Even though stuff like Pally, Barb and Heavy armor have clearly swung too much in the other direction the game is definitely more balanced now than it was a year ago where we only had a handful of very good builds.

Middle ground is not where the game is right now, for sure. Nerfs need to happen to have a balanced game but turbine is too afraid now. They love their OP melees too much.

[CeltEireson]

My Epic Scaling math is flawed, it did not take into account items.

So add in item of say 75 spell powerish --> 150/138/138 favorite spell power / 80 usp

Still the math shows that the Dev team needs to take this subject to the "Round Table" and ponder it before they settle in on EB figures even if they don't reply or act upon such till later on...

thanks for reading


minor hurt my finger fixing chainsaw -- will heal quickly but im out for a week or less

Sev's tree looks very interesting sorry cannot review atm

You might have meant to post in one of the warlock threads?

[slarden]

As we've mentioned previously, the biggest weakness of casters currently is putting out good boss DPS without completely draining spell points. We will be addressing that with some kind of new high level damage over time spell. I have no time frame to announce at this time, but unlikely it will be 3 years out.

Sev~

This is definitely a problem for many builds, especially pure builds that aren't favored souls. The new DOT will be most appreciated.

However, it will be useless if DC and spell penetration requirements aren't reasonable when eShavarath and eVale come out.

I am not sure if it will ever be reasonable to compare casters to paladins. Paladins are basically invincible easy-buttons having high prr/mrr, high hp, great self healing and great dps. Casting will always require more effort to play and will always be resource-constrained.

[Tarinia]

Greetings!


Thank you for being a part of the Dungeons & Dragons Online community, and we love hearing your feedback. It's been a pleasure to talk to everyone here, and we hope to see you in-game for a long time to come.

Robert “Severlin” Ciccolini

Hi Severlin,
since the Forgotten Ralms are the most popular Fantasy world, I dont understand, why Turbine will not further promote and develop the FR?
Very sad- no module can excite me as much, as a new Forgotten Realms module (Undermountain, Ruins of myth drannor, Pool of radiance) except perhaps "Castle Ravenloft" for a classic module.

Regarding caster weakness, just do the following:

1. Every epic Level will give +1 max. and normal caster lv to every spell, scrolls and wands.
2. every caster destiny Level gives +3 max. and +3 to normal caster lv spells, scrolls and wands

This would automatically rejuvenate scroll and wand use, even in epic lvs.
This would give old spells new fire power scaling apropriately till lv30 regarding bosses

And 2-3 epic spells per spellcasting class (starting with a hellball, that would not be blocked by every energyresistance possible doing effectly nothing against People protected by energy protection spells or epic Monsters.

Best regards
Tarinia

[Cathimon]

I'm not sure one DDO player can hope for some balance among classes anymore... Which is really sad.

[axel15810]

They love their OP melees too much.

Really?

I'm dumbfounded how people can actually believe stuff like this. Were you not around for any of the 7+ years where the top tier caster builds completely dominated all melees? Sorcs and wizards ruled this game for the longest time.

[sharachan]

The only problem with going down that route is that you are effectively consigning the vast majority of spells to the bin because they can't scale up into epics and the problem is only going to get worse as we move to a cap of 30 - generally mob hitpoints scale faster than spellpower does, so without increases in damage related to caster level all existing spells are going to suffer. I would prefer not to be in a situation where only a small handful of spells were relevant in epics, it kind of defeats the reason to have the scores of different damage spells that we currently do. And that applies not just to damage spells - many of the buffs are also getting less and less relevant - many items now come with blur or even a few with lesser displacement, spells like barkskin and shield of faith top out at +5 whereas items go to +10, resist only goes to 30 whereas items go to 50 - the list goes on.

Also I'd prefer that we not have to spend a feat to gain one spell - a feat to open up the option of epic spells would be preferable. If that's not possible I'd rather they just made any new spells level 9 ones and have no cap on the maximum caster level - doing it that way means theres no power creep at lower levels but theyr scale into epics. I'd also prefer that some of the existing spells that currently cap at level 20 be unlocked, or capped at level 25. It would also encourage people to use the magister destiny rather than shiradi as the magister one provides caster levels whereas shiradi doesn't

I do agree with you but i think the devs and melees would hate to see casters scaling properly in to epics. I would love to continue the path from savant to draconic incarnation on my sorc, but the message from Sev was to forget it...

[SableShadow]

Really?

I'm dumbfounded how people can actually believe stuff like this. Were you not around for any of the 7+ years where the top tier caster builds completely dominated all melees? Sorcs and wizards ruled this game for the longest time.

Why dumbfounded? Various flavors of this attitude have been around forever; the classes, races, and builds change, but the "y u hatz meh?!?!?!?" is everywhere, pretty much on every game ever.

Some of it is loosely true-ish: DM/dev has a vision for a class that is dramatically different than the player's vision, friction ensues, and people get passionate (rather a few of my posts back in the Rogue Wars were infraction worthy, for instance). It isn't hate, though, it's just a different vision. Unless it differs from mine, on my fave class, in which case it's hate.

[Monkey-Boy]

Really?

I'm dumbfounded how people can actually believe stuff like this. Were you not around for any of the 7+ years where the top tier caster builds completely dominated all melees? Sorcs and wizards ruled this game for the longest time.

Only the "now" matters.

[EllisDee37]

I would've liked to see a mention about updating Cannith Crafting, even if only as a throw-away "and time permitting we're still hoping to take a look at cannith crafting toward the end of the year."

Not mentioning it at all makes it seem like it's no longer even a possibility.

[Wizza]

Really?

I'm dumbfounded how people can actually believe stuff like this. Were you not around for any of the 7+ years where the top tier caster builds completely dominated all melees? Sorcs and wizards ruled this game for the longest time.

We had different Developers 7+ years ago.

[Seikojin]

Actually, I can't understand something. There are a lot of threads about the underpowered casters, where we already told a thousand times, what is our problem. And to that, there were never an answer. You will have a new spell. Thanks a lot - but that not is the problem. The problem is that the dev's neglected the arcane casters since lvl 20. For years. If you hate them, and you're never going to buff them (no, not with 1 spell), then tell it. But the I already told you, there will be a new spell from the devs, or the noooooo, the casters are not underpowered from the melee lovers (who cried for years from the beginning that the casters were OP, simply because they are just want to hack'n'slash in terminator mode, and they can't understand the d&d system) is a little bit strange, categorically avoiding the real question.

Don't get me wrong. I love this game, and the quests, the fighting system, the teamwork (if you have friends online),the sneak mode, and in my opinion, the dev's made a very good job with this mmo - but this underpowered arcane problem is a very great, and unnecessary one. And I have a feeling it's not a coincidence. No offense.

Just a heads up, casters are not weak in terms of capability. Arcane or divine. They get chased around by the boss for a reason. Until they run out of ammo (mana, components), they are more dps than any other class in the game. They can layer cloud dots, aura dots, direct damage spells, and enchantment dots. The frequency matches and can exceed melee or ranged dps. And that isn't even counting Shiradi's brokeness.

If you dig around, there is a nice power graph and casters lead the pack. So if you have a particular beef with how caster have been implemented, talk about that. However the vague blanket statements don't really coincide with the experience on live. If you mean DC casting, that lives. It works, but the auto-no-fail people demand is a hard place to get to for EE content at level. As it should be. Same with auto-nofail melee tacticals. And top end DPS.

[FranOhmsford]

Monks were the flavor of the month for a long time. That didn't change until the armor up pass this year.

MULTICLASSED MONKCHERS!

NOT MONKS!

As were casters for the longest time. Melees for most of DDO's life have been very underpowered compared to casters.

WF Casters+Souls and PMs because of self-healing ability were Gods back in 2010!

However - Fleshy Archmages and Sorcs have always been weak!

The devs I think you can criticize for taking as long as they have to balance the classes, but they are clearly trying. It's not so much that monks and casters have been nerfed, they've just gone from amazing to OK. Centered Kensei is still strong. Shirardi Sorc is still strong. Just not the best anymore.

Eurgh!

Centered Kensai does NOT = Monk!
It's also contributed to the death of the Pure Fighter Kensai!
Centered Kensai is very specifically a Multi-Class Build!

Shiradi isn't even a Caster Destiny! - I'm fed up of the Devs FORCING SPECIFIC Multiclass Builds or Off Kilter EDs down our throats! D&D has always had multiclassing and like probably 99% of DDO Players I am happy to be able to play Multiclassed Characters in DDO. HOWEVER I WANT THE CHOICE!

[SirValentine]

We do not hate any particular class, or race, or destiny. That is never a factor in our decision making.

I don't want to attribute specific feelings to you in particular, Steelstar, but over the course of last 7 years, it's pretty obvious from the results that, if not active hatred, devs historically have not given a **** about divines, except maybe some token hjealbot support. And the gross discrepancy in class features, enhancements, and gearing options that has accumulated over the years still largely exists.

[FranOhmsford]

Just a heads up, casters are not weak in terms of capability. Arcane or divine. They get chased around by the boss for a reason. Until they run out of ammo (mana, components), they are more dps than any other class in the game. They can layer cloud dots, aura dots, direct damage spells, and enchantment dots. The frequency matches and can exceed melee or ranged dps. And that isn't even counting Shiradi's brokeness.

If you dig around, there is a nice power graph and casters lead the pack. So if you have a particular beef with how caster have been implemented, talk about that. However the vague blanket statements don't really coincide with the experience on live. If you mean DC casting, that lives. It works, but the auto-no-fail people demand is a hard place to get to for EE content at level. As it should be. Same with auto-nofail melee tacticals. And top end DPS.

That Power Graph is years old now!

Yes Casters still have a lot of Attack Power but their defenses have been eroded!

What you see nowadays is Multiclassed Casters for extra defense which erodes their attack power!

So overall yes Casters have been Nerfed. Just in a roundabout way!


EK was a great idea but didn't give enough of either defense or attack for a Pure Caster!
AM is still insanely weak and the Tree System basically cemented the requirement to be in Undead Form for Fleshies!
You don't see anything like as many PMs now as you did just two years ago either!
Warforged {Sorry make that Bladeforged} Casters are still around but the ones I've seen recently have been multiclassed builds because even THEY can't get the defenses needed for Epics Pure!



Now what we have to remember is that literally EVERY Class and Build works just fine in the RIGHT GROUP {and by right group I mean one specifically tailored to every player in that group, one where the players in it are all of a similar skill level and one that stays together!} and never mind whether that is a group of newbies in Proof is in the Poison on Normal or a group of Uber Elite players running EE ToEE or Haunted Halls!
If the group is set up to maximise each player's abilities then the game becomes very easy for the best players!
HOWEVER:
For most of us that type of Group comes around once a month! It's not a regular thing! And it doesn't come back together the next day or the next week at the same time!

We're not asking to be able to SOLO all content on EE!
We're just asking that content not be aimed at the Perfect Group!

Heck even when it is aimed at the perfect group there's players skilled enough and geared enough incl. past lives to Solo it with ease - Those Players have no need to group and when they do can't get their heads around that other players may need them to slow the heck down!
Even the worst player likes to feel that he/she's contributing and one of the easiest ways to give them that feeling is to work as a team...
- Let the Player who built a buff bot buff you before you go running off
- Don't moan and whinge at the player who built a Healer because she is in your eyes Piking
- Let the Pure Fighter Stalwart with S+B Tank from time to time IF HE WANTS TO even if it's not strictly needed or your Druid Wolf is an Ubertank capable of holding aggro on any boss in the game as well as dealing out insane DPS!
But most importantly: RELAX, ENJOY THE JOURNEY rather than thinking only of the destination!
You can't do any of the above if you're 3 rooms ahead of that player!

And you don't have to do this in every quest or every time you run with a lesser player than yourself - Many of them may be just as interested in the destination as you are!
Just regulate yourself rather than trying to change others - It's FAR EASIER for Usain Bolt to jog than it is for Man in the street to sprint 100 metres in sub 10 seconds! And DDO is NOT a RACE!

[Qhualor]

So apparently improving classes 1 at a time starting from the bottom of the poll and working up is taking too long for some people.