+20 hearts

[Lonnbeimnech]

No LR for 1 month would be the correct approach.

Either that or cancel the release of warlock and put the warlock past life in the ddo store for like 2495 TP

[Paleus]

And there it is.

I was reading through the thread, dodging popcorn, and finding myself surprised that more folks wouldn't want people to actually play/learn a new class as opposed to fast-tracking it. *shrug*

I concede to the popular consensus - made easier, of course, by that^ just being the way it's gonna be.

I personally find it to be a rock and hard place. I would want to level a warlock from 1 - 20(28), but I think that having a +20 HoW sale prior to the release of a new class kind of made it so you had to let people fast-track. Whether or not the timing was intentional, it had the potential for negative blow-back due to player misunderstanding of the mechanics. And regardless of whether or not your customer is technically at fault for that misunderstanding, that's never a good thing. At a minimum clarification was needed, which I am happy to see we got. Odds are though, not everyone reads the forums so regardless there would likely be a negative reaction to the restriction, no matter how warranted.

However, if we could move away from the paradigm of buying XP through the store (pots, boxes, etc) and now past lives (HoW) I think it would be better for game design, though perhaps not the bottom line. So I'm on the side of preferring, in an idealized scenaio, that HoW wouldn't allow straight re-classing right away because that incentivizes selling bypasses which incentivizes creating things to be bypassed. But we're long past that ideal and it may never have been a workable ideal in the first place, so no restrictions is the only place I see it possible to come down on now.

[AdamSmith]

We currently have no interest in putting restrictions on the Warlock in regard to reincarnation, but we would consider the community's preference if people felt strongly that there should be restrictions on the class for a period of time after it debuts.

what a flimsy way of going about business. if the community wanted you to jump off a cliff are you going to do that as well.

the only people that would want restrictions in place are those that can't afford to buy otto boxes and hearts from the ddo store. don't listen to them, they're not going to help your bottom line anyway.

[Chi_Ryu]

No LR for 1 month would be the correct approach.

It would be nice if you explained why this would be the "correct" approach, especially since there are people who disagree with that verdict.

[Bluegirl_Two]

They are,putting out the heart right now with no information on the class so,people would be buying the heart hoping they could use it and then they might find out they can't. Do you finally see the point?

Could you be more obnoxious? How incredibly rude of you.

The entire thread is exceptionally rude and presumptive. Turbine has offered the +20 hearts at various times in the past. Like many other items, it comes around from time to time. It is a tremendous jump in logic to think that it is being offered now in conjunction with some future offering.

I obtained one of the heart woods to rework an existing character into a mechanic rogue. I had been dissatisfied with the character for a long time and it was a great opportunity to make the change.

There are many positives to the release of the +20 heart that have nothing to do with some ill conceived conspiracy theory.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Otto's boxes as well. I have a couple of characters that are ~3 million XP away from cap that I'd like to push over the edge so that they are ready to reincarnate into Warlock when it is released.

Really, what a rude and inconsiderate thread.

[AdamSmith]

Really, what a rude and inconsiderate thread.

agreed. people are happy to buy +20 hearts of wood for a variety of reasons. and most people that buy them now are going to have more immediate uses for them. so rude and inconsiderate to think that the only use it to store it up for later. what a hoarder mentality.

[RoberttheBard]

what a flimsy way of going about business. if the community wanted you to jump off a cliff are you going to do that as well.

the only people that would want restrictions in place are those that can't afford to buy otto boxes and hearts from the ddo store. don't listen to them, they're not going to help your bottom line anyway.

Alternatively, we could just say that people that are against it are against it because they don't want people that buy their way to 20 every life, have no gear and no idea how to play a class messing up what parties we do get? Shocking premise, isn't it?

[Susquehana]

what a flimsy way of going about business. if the community wanted you to jump off a cliff are you going to do that as well.

the only people that would want restrictions in place are those that can't afford to buy otto boxes and hearts from the ddo store. don't listen to them, they're not going to help your bottom line anyway.

What a simplistic view of the world. At one time I would have been against it, and I could afford boxes and hearts. But the game and playerbase has changed so much that there is no reason for me to be against the people who want easy buttons.

[Susquehana]

It would be nice if you explained why this would be the "correct" approach, especially since there are people who disagree with that verdict.

Because he is a self proclaimed high achiever, his approach is always the correct one.

[Deadlock]

Because he is a self proclaimed high achiever, his approach is always the correct one.

I do like it when my minions speak for me. Saves me from wasting my valuable time.

[Deadlock]

It would be nice if you explained why this would be the "correct" approach, especially since there are people who disagree with that verdict.

To elaborate on my minion's answer. Precedent for one. And because I'm terribly old fashioned and think that you should actually play and level your character rather than pay-not-to-play.

[Chi_Ryu]

I do like it when my minions speak for me. Saves me from wasting my valuable time.

That's all well and nice, but it would still be interesting if you explained the "why" a little. After all, I explained some reasons "why" allowing them is a good action.

Edit: I see you did whilst I was posting - thank you. I also see that I fundamentally disagree with you on both points, so there seems no point in discussing further

[jambajuicey]

No they are releasing the hearts because they know people will buy them because of the impending warlock release

interesting.. good sales tactic I suppose..

[Chai]

To elaborate on my minion's answer. Precedent for one. And because I'm terribly old fashioned and think that you should actually play and level your character rather than pay-not-to-play.

Im of the same opinion, but that boat sailed years ago when the response to massive hand over fist support of p2w and p2skip mechanics became putting more of the same into the store. Since people can pay_to_not_play 13 classes on their way to boxpletionist, theres really no reason to make an exception for the 14th class.

[General_Gronker]

We currently have no interest in putting restrictions on the Warlock in regard to reincarnation, but we would consider the community's preference if people felt strongly that there should be restrictions on the class for a period of time after it debuts.

Does that mean you'll be posting the question in game every hour with a way for people to respond? Because that's the only way you'll get an idea of what the community feels about the issue. I'm pretty sure the the few of us who bother to post on the forums do not represent the community.

I disagree

Okay.

there should be a short restriction, say a couple of weeks to prevent capped Warlocks on day 1.

You can disagree, but you're wrong. There should not be such a restriction.

My reasoning

is flawed.

is that if a theoretical new player starts playing DDO just to play a Warlock, but sees most of the vets already capped out on Day 1, it takes something away.

No, it really does not "take something away". That doesn't even actually mean anything.

[Bluegirl_Two]

Does that mean you'll be posting the question in game every hour with a way for people to respond? Because that's the only way you'll get an idea of what the community feels about the issue.

Actually, this is fundamentally incorrect.

A study of statistics will inform you that a very small sample is sufficient to predict the behavior for the entire group. This principle guides pollsters at all levels.

Inquiring in the forums where there is a representative number of people from the whole DDO population is sufficient to get a picture of what the whole player population thinks about the matter.

Compare my recent thread asking for 1 reply per person on the question of ToEE.

People sometimes get the idea that there is only one point of view because some posters make multiple posts and even post in multiple threads. But, when constrained to just one response a reasonably clear picture emerges and that picture is enough of an indicator to inform about the whole population.

What I will observe is that, to be effective, any such polling really needs to be done in a 1 person 1 vote environment either by means of an official poll or in a thread constrained similarly to the ToEE thread.

[Bluegirl_Two]

My reasoning is that if a theoretical new player starts playing DDO just to play a Warlock, but sees most of the vets already capped out on Day 1, it takes something away.

Your thinking isn't bad if your premise is correct. I think your premise is flawed. Unless you are in routine contact with new players and discussing with them their reactions to seeing characters at cap you cannot really posit that theoretical new player.

That theoretical new player has the qualities that you want to read into them and so provides a false basis from which to argue your point of view.

My own experience, having been a new player and having gamed just today with a whole party of new players, is that they really are not looking at anyone else. The do not have any concept of how long a person played to reach L20 or L28, they don't know or care about how many times a player has reincarnated their character, and they don't feel any real sense of inferiority.

I ran Devil's Assault today on EN with 3 first life characters. I typically solo DA on EN or EH. It was amusing getting random heals and buffs when I knew that I could just solo the whole thing. The players didn't care that I was on my only completionist character with all those past lives. I never was asked once about how many past lives I had. They just baby-sat me like I didn't have a clue.

So, I think the premise is wrong and that makes your conclusions wrong as well. And, as much as I dislike agreeing with certain posters, I really do think that it won't make a difference to any new player whether warlock comes out and people Otto/LR20 through the life. As I read the thread the only people concerned are those who have played for a reasonable length of time and might be considered veteran players.

And the way I read their posts it is really an issue of them not wanting to play "keeping up with the Jones family." For those that are morally opposed they are under no obligation to Otto/LR20 -- they are stuck with not inflicting their morality on the rest of the world.

For those who object to spending money or Turbine Points, they too are under no obligation to do so. But, I think that this group really thinks that there is a large part of the DDO population that is independently wealthy and just buys its way to success.

Personally, I don't see any of those types of people. I don't run into L28 characters who got there without questing and without gear -- like some of the posters suggest happens. I think that these are just bogeymen created to support bad arguments just as your premise of theoretical newcomers is.

In actuality, based on the people I interact with in game, I don't think it will matter regardless of what is done with Warlock.

[Susquehana]

I do like it when my minions speak for me. Saves me from wasting my valuable time.

I figure one of us should tell the truth.

[Rykka]

It wont bother me if someone is a level 28 warlock on day one. Ill be in their groups, observing class performance.

That's my attitude sorta. I've no interest in playing warlock unless it's brokenly powerful so i can get it done while I watch a movie.

[Chi_Ryu]

Inquiring in the forums where there is a representative number of people from the whole DDO population

I do not believe there is any foundation for this assumption, and my belief is that you are highly likely to find population biases within the people that actively use the forums that do not exist in the overall game population, not to mention the almost complete lack of representation from players from 1 e.g. the Far East.

If you want meaningful results, then your sampling design needs to be much more complex than 'one post per account and it's all ok' (and that's ignoring sock puppet accounts, etc).