Warlocks!

[decease]

What is warlock, this is the real question?

are Warlock just a bard without healing spell, songs~~ and been given a free cast ray spell which label as "Eldrith blast"?

Warlock is a unique class, they have different spell set, they spell are very few but free cast.


Really there is nothing new to this..."class"(?) i could as well build a bard with throwing weapon or rune arm doing exact the same. (with similar spell selection)

p.s. regarding to prestige tree, you ought to have another look. as i can see you have plan out three route.. Melee, Eldrith blast and casting dc.. so keep the tree pure and simple.. keep all blast shape to one tree and all the spell dc to another. And remove those sla, warlock was suppose to have few spell selection.. most of the added spell are useless(pact, prestige sla).

[Vargouille]

Having a gazillion spells only adds to that. Being a warlock is about making really tough choices what to take and what to leave behind. This just kills the Warlock feeling.

Warlocks don't have many spells. They have fewer spells than any other class (though Tainted Scholars bring them pretty close to some other classes, but even then you don't get a lot of choice.)

You only choose 2 spells from 6 spell levels, and a set of spells based on your Pact (and how many Warlock levels you choose to take). A major goal of that design is presenting you with multiple tough choices, and making your Warlock different from others.

Reducing the possible spells Warlock can choose from is something we'll consider if we're convinced that increase the difficulty of choices rather than reducing it - based on just the math, fewer options* for the same number of choices* means less diversity. This may not take everything into account, of course, but the onus is on those who want to reduce options.

* You choose 2 spells from 10+ options per level.

[Drakos]

We're not getting new quests this update, as per the producer's letter. I think the developers wanted to spend all their energy on perfecting warlocks before releasing them. That being said, I'd expect the next update to be sooner than the usual time between updates.

Last I saw it was Update 26 in June, and Update 27 in July.

[decease]

Warlocks don't have many spells. They have fewer spells than any other class (though Tainted Scholars bring them pretty close to some other classes, but even then you don't get a lot of choice.)

You only choose 2 spells from 6 spell levels, and a set of spells based on your Pact (and how many Warlock levels you choose to take). A major goal of that design is presenting you with multiple tough choices, and making your Warlock different from others.

Reducing the possible spells Warlock can choose from is something we'll consider if we're convinced that increase the difficulty of choices rather than reducing it - based on just the math, fewer options* for the same number of choices* means less diversity. This may not take everything into account, of course, but the onus is on those who want to reduce options.

* You choose 2 spells from 10+ options per level.

And that we do not want! remove all sla from prestige tree. and reduce the amount of pact spell add to warlock's list. We want to play warlock, not something totally unrelated..

p.s. have a free cast ray/cone/chain spell will not make a class Warlock.. there are much more to the class.

[Failedlegend]

And that we do not want! remove all sla from prestige tree. and reduce the amount of pact spell add to warlock's list. We want to play warlock, not something totally unrelated..

p.s. have a free cast ray/cone/chain spell will not make a class Warlock.. there are much more to the class.

I don't get the issue with SP, having SP doesn't make Locks not Locks...not any more than Wizards and Sorcs having SP makes them not wizards or Sorcs, Eldritch Blast is clearly a HUGE part of Warlock which makes sense since it is so in PnP...the only thing really missing is some unique or traditionally "Warlocky" spells and some shapes. Other than that this Class seems very "Warlocky" to me.

[HatsuharuZ]

Warlocks don't have many spells. They have fewer spells than any other class (though Tainted Scholars bring them pretty close to some other classes, but even then you don't get a lot of choice.)

You only choose 2 spells from 6 spell levels, and a set of spells based on your Pact (and how many Warlock levels you choose to take). A major goal of that design is presenting you with multiple tough choices, and making your Warlock different from others.

Reducing the possible spells Warlock can choose from is something we'll consider if we're convinced that increase the difficulty of choices rather than reducing it - based on just the math, fewer options* for the same number of choices* means less diversity. This may not take everything into account, of course, but the onus is on those who want to reduce options.

* You choose 2 spells from 10+ options per level.

I think the current set-up, in terms of spell slots, spell points, pact-given spells and spells given from the Tainted Scholar tree is fine (although an archmage-like ability to *choose* which spells you get would be nice to have).

For me, the problem is that Warlocks have the exact same spells as Wizards and Sorcerers. All of these are debuffing and penalizing effects, and even a sorcerer could use these better, with it's higher base spell points. However, Warlocks don't need higher spell points when Eldritch Blast and it's derivatives don't use spell points. What they need is better debuffing/penalizing spells.

[decease]

I don't get the issue with SP, having SP doesn't make Locks not Locks...not any more than Wizards and Sorcs having SP makes them not wizards or Sorcs, Eldritch Blast is clearly a HUGE part of Warlock which makes sense since it is so in PnP...the only thing really missing is some unique or traditionally "Warlocky" spells and some shapes. Other than that this Class seems very "Warlocky" to me.

Unlimited casting is the most important trait to warlock jmo. We have enough of the s caster and want something different. Nthis is not warlock, this is a bard trade their song for a free ray spell sla

no new spell, no pet, no shapeshifting, no melee touch blast or melee wepon blast shape... no free cast... imo a sorc is more warlock then this, at least they hve a large sp pool

[HatsuharuZ]

Crazy idea: Allow single-target spells from the 'current' Warlock spell list to be affected by blast shapes from the Tainted Scholar tree. This would be very similar to how 3.5 Warlocks use eldritch essences in PnP.

[Zzevel]

And that we do not want! remove all sla from prestige tree. and reduce the amount of pact spell add to warlock's list. We want to play warlock, not something totally unrelated..

p.s. have a free cast ray/cone/chain spell will not make a class Warlock.. there are much more to the class.

Who is this "WE".. is there a mouse in your pocket?

I like that the Warlock class integrates SP rather than 10 'spell like' abilities. this opens up more possibilities in multi-classing and meshes well with the current ED setup. This is DDO, it is not and has never been letter of the law D&D... It is an interpretation of the Warlock class made to work within the existing DDO game (not D&D).

[GoldyGopher]

I don't get the issue with SP, having SP doesn't make Locks not Locks...not any more than Wizards and Sorcs having SP makes them not wizards or Sorcs, Eldritch Blast is clearly a HUGE part of Warlock which makes sense since it is so in PnP...the only thing really missing is some unique or traditionally "Warlocky" spells and some shapes. Other than that this Class seems very "Warlocky" to me.

[rant on]
Editing my rant in hopes that it is clearer view of my own take on the topic

Warlocks by there very nature a different character class than other spell casters. It is that uniqueness that makes them desirable for a substantial player base in Pen and Paper. As I have stated I am not a big Warlock Fan (unless we are talking about Richard) from my days in PnP, however I am looking for different game play within DDO.
When I look at what Turbine is producing I am left wondering "what the what?"

Warlocks Invocations aren't technically done by level rather they are done by grades; Least, Lesser, Greater and Dark, as well as the addition of Eldritch blasts.
Example of some of these Invocations; All Seeing Eye (Read all written Languages plus a bonus to Spot and Search), Darkness, Earthen Grab, Charm, Dead Walk (create a Skeleton Summon), Walk Unseen, Caustic Mire, Painful Slumber, Path of Shadow, and Steal Summon. I am not sure how long it take to retrofit spells within DDO but simply giving Warlocks Wiz/Sorc Spells (albeit potentially at different levels) doesn't work for me.

A Warlocks Eldritch Blast is shaped by the choices that the characters makes within the class. For example these is an elemental feat that allows a Warlock to add their choice of Elemental Damage to their Eldritch Blast.

Warlocks are extremely limited in the number of Invocations known but given unlimited ability to use them. Warlocks are very susceptible to Invocations interrupted and several take time to cast and require the character to stay focused.
For example a Warlock Invokes Earthen Grab on a Monster. It may take a round to prepare but once invoked the Earthen Grab holds the monster until it either breaks free or the warlock releases the monster. While the Earthen Grab is in effect the Warlock cannot use another invocation.

All of that makes a very different play style or more appropriately play styles with a Warlock without getting into the discussion on alignments or other such stuff.

IMHO Turbine threw out all the things that would make a Warlock different from a Sorc, Wiz or Bard and decided to make a new class that totally resembles Sorc, Wiz or Bard. There will be little difference, so what's the point, after a month maybe two the excitement about a new class will have gone away and either the class will be OP or UP version of Sorc, Wiz or Bard (depending on your view point).

Well using Spell Points may seem like a easy solution it only adds to the problem, mixing with a Sorc/Wiz/Favoured Soul potentially create large Spell Point Pools that allow a character the ability to abuse the system. A 17 Wizard / 3 Warlock for example or 16 /4 4 or ...
It reminds me of the days when the player base started to truly take advantage of the Rogue/Pally splash builds.

All that says I am extremely frustrated that such potential is wasted and left by the wayside and in reading many of the responses in this topic, so are many other players. [rant off]

[decease]

Who is this "WE".. is there a mouse in your pocket?

I like that the Warlock class integrates SP rather than 10 'spell like' abilities. this opens up more possibilities in multi-classing and meshes well with the current ED setup. This is DDO, it is not and has never been letter of the law D&D... It is an interpretation of the Warlock class made to work within the existing DDO game (not D&D).

we refer to all those that want warlock, if you don't want warlock but just a bard with free ray sla then this is for you. atm this have nothing to do with warlock other then name

p.s. if you just want the sp, you could spend a feat to get magic training then mental toughness~~ Also there are more then enough equipment that give you tons of SP. you only get merely 600 sp from a pure level 20 warlock... do the math yourself nothing stoping you from getting the feat. only difference is you could cast your invocation as many times as you like. which is way better for multiclass.

[SisAmethyst]

It's one hidden buff per spell level (up to 6), each of which will contain 1 or 2 spell names/identifiers (short strings of text). After that it's simply setting which spells are available to cast and which aren't, handled identically as with unprepared wizard/cleric/druid spells. This shouldn't tax the servers in any meaningful way.

To rephrase the idea, compared to wizards/clerics/druids who choose which spells to prepare immediately after shrining, warlocks would essentially choose which spells are prepared at any time, on the fly, by casting the ones they want and allowing the rest to be locked.

No, I still intend for them to be limited by the proposed Warlock spell list. It's post #5 on the first page. I was also quite clear in the example and afterward that I prefer they continue to have/use spellpoints.

Maybe it was too late for my brain to understand that. Anyhow, with the full spell list available you essentially just created and alternative way of how an Wizard could have been implemented. By the original books a WL don't know Wizards spells at all as they would need either some form of magical training or like an Sorc a natural understanding of them. A Warlock does neither but merely channel the limited powers of the Pact he has.

To make that more clear an abstract example: It is like a Wizard and Sorc either due to learning or due to natural talent know how to bake cookies. While the Warlock doesn't know how to bake at all (probably would just burn the house if he would even try), but he has a good supply of cookies from the local supermarket. But while the supermarket only server one sort of pre packed cookies of one taste, the Wizard or Sorc could bake cookies with whatever taste and flavor they want. So I personally think a Warlock should not get access to all spells as it is conceptually against the nature of a Warlock.

While I know that DDO is only loosely based on D&D 3.5 and newer versions provide much more choices and freedom the general concept and difference of the class still stand and is just much more obvious in version 3.5 where a WL has except of a handful special spells like Chilling Tentacles which on the other hand are unknown in that form to the Wizard or Sorc, while all other invocations are Cone, Spear or Blasts. In my personal opinion they should have like the Artificer just got a bunch of new spell/invocations.

While I personally would have voted for them to delay the WL till they get to make new spells/invocations/SLA, but I can cope with the fact that Devs say they won't have the time to create all new spells and thus fill the gap with existing one. Emphasis on filling the gap, e.g. like invisible instead of walk unseen. But as you yourself said "Spellcasters in DDO have pretty much always gravitated to choosing the spells that are most useful in 90% of situations" it would lead to the point that while limited by 2 spells per rest they would still play exactly the same as a Wizard or Sorc if they have access to all spell and I guess the last thing we need is to replicate something that is already existing.

[SisAmethyst]

Who is this "WE".. is there a mouse in your pocket?

I like that the Warlock class integrates SP rather than 10 'spell like' abilities. this opens up more possibilities in multi-classing and meshes well with the current ED setup. This is DDO, it is not and has never been letter of the law D&D... It is an interpretation of the Warlock class made to work within the existing DDO game (not D&D).

In fact if I read most of this I have to ask: can't you at least be honest and admit that you actually not care at all about the Warlock class but just about that you either can splash some WL levels to get some free SP recharge or to power your cocoon in epic levels?

In some cases I have to wonder why we bother at all about a new class as if all you want is play a Sorc/Wizard with some new fenzy enhancement trees, because this is essentially what everybody seem to advocate...

[HatsuharuZ]

Have you ever noticed one of the key differences that make Artificers and Druids different from the classes that came before them? I like to call them "Multiple Damage Source" classes. Unlike Sorcs and Wizards, Artificers/Druids do not do well with the old "Empower + Maximize + Nuke" combo. However, they have multiple sources of damage that they can put out in concert.

Artificer: Blade Barrier, Dog, Flame Turret, Repeater Crossbow, Rune Arm, Various damage spells.

Druid: Various damage spells, Dog, Wolf/Bear Form and (Insert LONG list of persistent AoEs and DoTs here).

Now, these classes do need some changes, but the bases on which they are built are, respectively, solid strategies.

On the other hand, we have a Warlock, which currently only has 2 forms of damage: EB and weapons. This kind of odd, since even the Bard spell list has some damage spells.


My thinking is that, to set it apart from the classes it most resembles (Sorc and Wiz), the Warlock needs to play differently from them. Having a spell list that supports this is key. Well, that's one reason anyways.

[Failedlegend]

Unlimited casting is the most important trait to warlock imo

Whilst I wouldn't call it the "most important" part of Warlock I do agree that something needs to be done that makes Locks feel like they have unlimited casting even when SP based which is why I've said several times that they should keep their small SP pool but gain improved Echoes of Power, something like 12 (Base EOP) + 1~2*Lock Level = 32~52 at cap.

no new spell

This I'm actually extremely surprised about up until now every spellcaster related addition has come with new spells and whilst I'll still play Lock w/o new spells I'll be really sad that I won't be casting "Evard's Black Tentacles" (I'd even be fine if it was just a Reskinned earth grab or Entangle) nor other iconic "Locky" spells.

no pet

I'm mixed on this, I've never viewed "Locks" as a pet class but there is a hefty amount of summon boosts in Lock that I'm really surprised there isn't one...either add a pet or remove the summon enhancements (save the coding for when you upgrade the Arty/Druid Doggies to the new enhancement style)

no shapeshifting

Not surprised as Druid took FOREVER due to this feature and still is missing alot of animations and is really buggy (last I checked all the fighting styles work at the same time for Druids in wolf/bear form)

That said I honestly hope Locks WON'T get shapeshifting that's kind of what makes Druid special

no melee touch blast or melee wepon blast shape

Actually that's what the Aura is, what we need is a RANGED version of that.

Crazy idea: Allow single-target spells from the 'current' Warlock spell list to be affected by blast shapes from the Tainted Scholar tree. This would be very similar to how 3.5 Warlocks use eldritch essences in PnP.

I have no idea if this is possible but if the devs have ANY chance of doing this it would be AMAZING!!!

[rant on]
Warlocks by their very nature a different character class than other spell casters. It is that uniqueness that makes them desirable for a substantial player base in Pen and Paper.

Using PnP as an argument makes no sense because SP is a variant rule the only classes that use a spell point like system natively is Psions so none of DDO casters work like PnP and not giving Locks SP would make them not function as casters in EE and make Multi-classing a huge PITA...that said as I mentioned earlier in the post and in the various Lock threads they should keep their small SP pool but gain improved Echoes of Power, something like 12 (Base EOP) + 1~2*Lock Level = 32~52 at cap to reflect the Locks "Unlimited Spellcasting"

As I have stated I am not a big Warlock Fan (unless we are talking about Richard) from my days in PnP

To be honest my first experience with a Warlock was shamefully in WoW (which despite "Not being a Fan" of that game I have to admire how well they integrated the "pet" class, only the Necromancer in D2 has ever been that well made) despite playing PnP for much longer than that (I knew of the PnP Warlock class, I'd just never tried it before), frankly it's the only class I could stomach at the time (My girlfriend wanted me to play so I did so for reasons I cannot discuss on these forums)

Shortly after that I got into Warlocks in PnP and I loved how diverse the class was fluff-wise (and didn't understand the alignment restrictions that were completely counter to fluff) and frankly got really annoyed that people just assumed they were all Evil, which is why I loved playing a Chaotic Good Freedom Paladin/Warlock who had a pact with a Celestial and was her mission to prove thats Locks were misunderstood. She eventually joined the Crimson Legion (since only the OLDEST members of the CL are actually in a pact with Asmodeus), than once I started playing 4e I could freely play a Lawful Good Warlock/Paladin.

Now that I've shifted to Pathfinder (aka 3.75) our group has collectively abolished class based alignment restrictions because their dumb, every character takes an alignment based on their character although with clerics and other divines they usually tend to be close to their dietys alignment and most Paladins tend to be at least Good. The difference being the key words "Most" and "Tend" instead of "All" and "Forced"

Warlocks Invocations aren't technically done by level rather they are done by grades; Least, Lesser, Greater and Dark, as well as the addition of Eldritch blasts.

Which could be easily implemented as spells so they don't have to create an entirely new infrastructure, I'm sure they could even rename the spell tab "Invocations"

As for the fact that they DIDN'T do this definitely saddens me, I would have even accepted a couple reskinnings of existing Spells (ie. Earthgrab or Entangle Reskinned to Evard's Black Tentancles, Fly ---> Jump + Featherfall, Spiderclimb ----> Whatever it is Kobolds use :P...ok I'm not serious about that last one)

A Warlocks Eldritch Blast is shaped by the choices that the characters makes within the class. For example these is an elemental feat that allows a Warlock to add their choice of Elemental Damage to their Eldritch Blast.

There's actually PLENTY of shapes and essences in the tree, aside from the fact that ES should have a multi-selector for "Ranged weapons" thats pretty much covered.

[Deathdefy]

1) Apologies for the 12 SLA misunderstanding - entirely on my end. I think I only read what I wanted to read and yes I'd love a waffle right about now.

2) I can see how it's hard to envisage what broad statements about spell lists would look like in practice.

This would be an example of what I'd deem reasonable at 2 memorized invocations per level if infinitely castable with normal cooldowns. To be clear, I'd play the pants off this.

It's basically the existing spell list with the stuff I think can't really be infinitely cast removed, and other powerful invocations downgraded or placed at a higher level. I worry about Howl of Terror, but that pact line probably needs a draw card.

All levels retain hard choices - and none are too awful, though I concede level 4's not blowing anyone's mind. I know infinitely castable direct damage spells are a somewhat worrying concept, but scaling means Wall of (Perilous) Fire (Flame) wouldn't get too exciting in epics. You could even disable maximize/empower if it seemed overdone.

Level 1
Bane
Cause Fear
Charm Person
Detect Secret Doors
Doom
Expeditious Retreat
False Life
Grease
Hypnotism
Jump
Master's Touch
Nightshield
Ooze Puppet
Ray of Enfeeblement
Resist Energy
See Invisibility
Shield
Sleep
Touch of Idiocy
Summon Monster I (Downgraded)

Level 2
Otto's Resistible Dance (Moved from level 1)
Blur
Command Undead
Dispel Magic
Fog Cloud
Invisibility
Protection from Energy
Ray of Exhaustion
Scare
Suggestion
Water Breathing
Summon Monster II (Downgraded)

Level 3
Banishment
Bestow Curse
Charm Monster
Contagion
Deep Slumber
Displacement
Fear
Haste
Stoneskin
Ghoul Touch (Moved from level 2)
Summon Monster III (Downgraded)


Level 4
Dismissal
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Protection from Elements
Symbol of Fear
Symbol of Persuasion
Teleport
True Seeing
Waves of Fatigue
Sleet Storm (Moved from level 2)
Dimension Door (Moved from level 3)
Summon Monster IV (Downgraded)


Level 5
Control Undead
Create Undead
Globe of Invulnerability
Greater Teleport
Invisibility, Mass
Mind Fog
Protection from Elements, Mass
Shadow Walk
Symbol of Stunning
Tenser's Transformation
Waves of Exhaustion
Summon Monster V (Downgraded)
Solid Fog (Moved from level 3)
Enervation (Moved from level 3)
Hold Monster (Moved from level 4)
Removed: Circle of Death, Undeath to Death, Hold Person: Mass,

Level 6
Mass Charm Monster
Dominate Monster
Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Power Word: Stun
Symbol of Death
Flesh to Stone (Moved from level 4)
Finger of Death (Moved from level 5)
Summon Monster VI (Downgraded)
Removed: Wail of the Banshee, Trap the Soul, Hold Monster, Mass [/QUOTE]


Re: Pacts:
Fey
1 - Obscuring Mist
2 - Blindness
3 - Slow
4 - Greater Dispel Magic
5 - [Added] Web [Removed] Otto's Sphere of Dancing Yes, web is a level 2 arcane spell, but if it's infinitely castable, it's going up to a 5th level invocation
6 - Otto's Irresistable Dance

Fiend
1 - Command
2 - Rage
3 - Fire Shield
4 - Binding Chain
5 - Power Word: Blind
Maybe 6 - [Removed] Howl of Terror [Added] Summon Monster IX
(Or maybe keep Howl of Terror, I've never tried it - just worry about mass effects).

Great Old One
1 - Entangle
2 - Knock
3 - [Added] Suggestion [Moved] Phantasmal Killer
4 - Dominate Person
5 - [Added] Phantasmal Killer [Removed] Mass Suggestion
6 - Power Word: Kill

[IronClan]

You only choose 2 spells from 6 spell levels, and a set of spells based on your Pact (and how many Warlock levels you choose to take). A major goal of that design is presenting you with multiple tough choices, and making your Warlock different from others.

One problem is there are VERY few spells that are worth hotbaring, some spell levels only HAVE 2 spells especially in epic content when stuff like energy resistance is totally outmoded. When I TR my casters I often have 3, 4 even 5 empty spell slots in some levels of spells... on the other hand some levels have an abudance of spells I would take. From what I see Warlock may have this problem...

2 spell restriction + 2 spells that are optimal = easy choices IMO.

Varg any thoughts on my Spell DPS comparison showing Warlocks to have significantly better base damage than Sorc's and Wizards with .6 more multiplier and no resource usesage? Or are you ignoring it because you think I'm just being alarmist like I was with Vanguard?

I don't think a lot of people have a feel for spell damage, they'll figure it out when they TR into Warlock and realize their Warlock does higher nuking damage and faster (I assume) than a Sorc does using heroic damage spells, and THEN they will march on the forums with torches and pitchforks... Again this is probably a good thing because heroic damage spells need to be made relevant to Epics, so I'll just leave it at that if you're not interested in discussing Sorc/Wizard versus Warlock spell DPS.

To be clear I don't think Warlocks e-blast is over powered, I think SP based heroic damage spells don't scale well enough, and Warlocks who you have described as having a nice "pew pew" feel must surely eclipse them, unless e-blast casts SLOWER than a Sorc/Wizard heroic spell.

[decease]

Whilst I wouldn't call it the "most important" part of Warlock I do agree that something needs to be done that makes Locks feel like they have unlimited casting even when SP based which is why I've said several times that they should keep their small SP pool but gain improved Echoes of Power, something like 12 (Base EOP) + 1~2*Lock Level = 32~52 at cap.

if they must have sp, what they could do is reduce spell cost upon taking warlock level. say 10% every 2 level, so at level 20 you are free cost for all warlock spell. or perhaps to reduce invocation cost to 1sp will also do.

though what i really want is to have them as they should be..., no sp.. which will close doors to some destiny ability but that how things should be. warlock was never meant to be very multilcass friendly

This I'm actually extremely surprised about up until now every spellcaster related addition has come with new spells and whilst I'll still play Lock w/o new spells I'll be really sad that I won't be casting "Evard's Black Tentacles" (I'd even be fine if it was just a Reskinned earth grab or Entangle) nor other iconic "Locky" spells.

not sure why they want to rush it, perhaps they want to kick out all the dnd fans..

I'm mixed on this, I've never viewed "Locks" as a pet class but there is a hefty amount of summon boosts in Lock that I'm really surprised there isn't one...either add a pet or remove the summon enhancements (save the coding for when you upgrade the Arty/Druid Doggies to the new enhancement style)

i never view them as a pet class either. but yet they put pet/hireling enhancement in the prestige tree.... plus warlock are known to be able to summon fiend or other outsider to their aid.

Not surprised as Druid took FOREVER due to this feature and still is missing alot of animations and is really buggy (last I checked all the fighting styles work at the same time for Druids in wolf/bear form)

Shapeshifting isn't buggy, what buggy is their design. do you see any issue with elemental shape? animal shape change weapon/shield, while humanoid shape does not. it doesn't even have to be shapeshifting.. it could be something like shroud or tanser's transformation.

p.s. aura is a really really bad idea. i would rather they give a toggle shape/shroud/form/buff that give you full bab and a little extra bonus, which will aid you in your melee. Aura can only be useless or too op, there is no middle ground.

Actually that's what the Aura is, what we need is a RANGED version of that.

by traditional dnd, warlock can force their blast into the form of melee weapon in their hand.. its called Eldritch glaive, which you can swing like normal 2h weapon which does exact damage as your normal blast. (blast essence applied. actually this is exactly how they translate druid's flameblade..

p.s. so basically all dev is saying is.." we don't want to spend time, we don't want to work much, so copy & paste"... not sure for other, but this will likely be the straw that break my back~~~







edit: Why do warlock have level 6 spell? because they copy and paste it from bard. bard have level 6 spell.. i fully understand that they do not have much resource but that doesn't means a stright forward copy & paste is acceptable.... for god's sake, at least rename the spell.. sigh..

The truth is you don't need to make anything new.. we already have almost everything you need. All you need to do is to rename, and remove spell point. Also for some spell you need to upgrade the damage/dc.

p.s. you can do this right, and we all come back and buying new pact and this class. or you can do it wrong, most of us will not come back. and you will just waste both yours and our time.

Least Invocations

Baleful Utterance - Sonic Blast rename
Beguiling Influence- grant 1/warlock level enchantment bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate
Breath of the Night- Obscuring Mist rename
Dark One's Own Luck- cha to save buff. last 1 hour
Darkness- Solid Fog rename
Devil's Sight- True seeing rename
Earthen Grasp- We already have this on Sorc Earth path..
Eldritch Glaive- Make this like flame weapon.. you summon a eldritch weapon that increase damage base on warlock cast level.
Eldritch Spear- Extend spell rename
Entropic Warding- Deflect arrow feat buff
Frightful Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to set enemy shaken
Leaps and Bounds- grant 1/warlock level enhancement bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble.
Miasmic Cloud- Mind fog rename
See the Unseen- see invisibility rename
Sickening Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to give enemy -1 peantly to all ability score.
Spiderwalk- Spider skin from druid spell rename
Summon Swarm- Enveloping Swarm from druid spell rename

Lesser Invocations

Beshadowed Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to blind enemy
Brimstone Blast- Yours Eldritch blast does fire damage and 20% to reduce enemy fortitude save by 1.
Charm- suggestion spell rename
Curse of Despair- Bestow Curse rename
Eldritch Chain- chain shape
Flee the Scene- Haste rename
Helltime Blast- Yours Eldritch blast does cold damage and 20% to reduce enemy dex by 1.
Hungry Darkness- Enveloping Swarm upgrade damage rename
Ignore the Pyre- resist energy rename
Sudden Swarm- we have similar effect in game already. from summon monser(Umbral Warg)
The Dead Walk- Create undead spell rename
Voidsense- Glitterdust upgrade rename
Voracious Dispelling- dispel magic rename
Walk Unseen- invisibility rename
Fell Flight- ddoor rename

Greater Invocations

Bewitching Blast- Enemy strike by your blast have 20% chance to become confused
Chilling Tentacles- recolor Entangle and upgrade dc/damage.
Devour Magic- greater dispel magic rename
Immunity to frightful presence- buff that grant dr 2/- every 4 warlock level.
Eldritch Cone- cone shape blast
Enervating Shadow- Invisibility, Mass rename
Noxious Blast- Stinking Cloud rename
Repelling Blast- your blast have 20% chance to knock down your enemy.
Vitriolic Blast- your blast deal acid damage
Wall of Perilous Flame- wall of fire rename

Dark Invocations
Dark Foresight- Displacement spell rename
Eldritch Doom- self center aoe blast
Impenetrable Barrier- we have many barrier type of effect.. maybe give 4 prr/mrr every two warlock level while remaining in the barrier
Path of Shadow- Shadow walk + Vigor self only rename
Utterdark Blast- enemy struck by your blast have 5% chance to recieve 2 negative level.
Word of Changing - Tenser's transformation rename




edit: All shape should deal same amount of damage as normal single target blast. Because you do have to sacrifice a known invocation for the shape.

[IronClan]

The following critique of the Warlock spell list is also generically applicable to all Arcanes that have these spells

Level 1
Bane
Cause Fear ---Unwanted effect by party members
Charm Person
Detect Secret Doors ---Clickies
Doom
Expeditious Retreat ---Speed item
False Life ---Item
Grease ---Unwanted effect
Hypnotism
Jump
Master's Touch
Nightshield
Ooze Puppet ---LOL
Otto's Resistible Dance
Ray of Enfeeblement
Resist Energy ---Quickly obsolete
See Invisibility ---Which monsters would we need this for?
Shield
Sleep --- Doesn't cause helpless
Summon Monster I ---Obsoleted by subsequent spell levels
Touch of Idiocy

Red are useful --- are comments from my perspective about utility/usefullness. Two of them are redundant and easily available elsewhere or as clickies (Shield and Nightshield) hypno is extremely niche as a will save debuff, and Masters touch is niche.

Verdict: Jump is clearly useful in almost every Warlocks case. Pick a second spell, No hard choices here.

Level 2
Blur ---to hand to party members who are under-geared
Command Undead
Dispel Magic ---Broken formula doesn't scale
Fog Cloud
Ghoul Touch
Invisibility
Protection from Energy ---Quickly outmoded by gear
Ray of Exhaustion
Scare ---Unwanted effect by party members
Sleet Storm ---Unwanted effect
Suggestion
Summon Monster III ---Outmoded in a few hours by next summons level
Water Breathing

Two spells here and only one of them is usefull to every Warlock (Warlocks in good groups will find Bluring party members to be a waste of SP)

Level 3
Banishment ---ultra situational for a 2 spell slot choice
Bestow Curse
Charm Monster
Contagion
Deep Slumber ---Most people don't even consider this useful, but good casters know better, that said it's only good as a 4th or 5th spell.
Dimension Door ---Clear winner for Slot 2
Displacement ---Clear Winner for Slot 1
Enervation ---useful but no one will take over DDoor and Displacement
Fear ---Unwanted
Haste --- Only useful in heroics and not going to be taken anyway see above
Solid Fog --- Situational Debuff no one will take
Stoneskin ---Quickly useless
Summon Monster IV --- outmoded by next Summons spell

There's nothing to talk about here, Displacement is Spell 1 and DDoor is spell 2 MAYBE a solo'er or someone in Shadowdancer takes Enervation...

Level 4
Dismissal --- See banishment
Flesh to Stone ---Usefull but going to have a hard time hitting 65/70/75 DC needed for EN/H/E Mod's and going to be chuging pots to keep things CC'ed anyway so maybe not worth doing.
Hold Monster
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Protection from Elements --- Probably useless by this heroic level, definitely useless shortly after
Summon Monster VI --- outmoded by VIII
Symbol of Fear --- Unwanted effect
Symbol of Persuasion
Teleport --- Scroll
True Seeing --- Scroll
Waves of Fatigue

I don't believe there is a hard 3rd choice in level 4 spells

Level 5
Circle of Death
Control Undead
Create Undead
Finger of Death
Globe of Invulnerability
Greater Teleport --- Scroll
Hold Person, Mass --- overly situational
Invisibility, Mass
Mind Fog
Protection from Elements, Mass --- Already outmoded by the time you get the choice
Shadow Walk --- no one likes this spell but scrolls if they do
Summon Monster VIII --- outmoded by IX
Symbol of Stunning --- Most players can't be arsed to mess with symbol spells, they don't fit into the fast paced meta of DDO
Tenser's Transformation --- Scroll, but will be chosen by melee Warlocks
Undeath to Death
Waves of Exhaustion

ALL USEFUL SPELLS OF THIS LEVEL require massive investment in Necro DC's, I can imagine many warlock builds not even bothering casting 5th level spells.

For Necro focused they can use dragons blood to change circle of death to undead to death when you're doing a bunch of undead content and change back as needed.

Level 6
Mass Charm Monster
Dominate Monster
Hold Monster, Mass
Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Power Word: Stun
Summon Monster IX --- useful for levels ~16 (whenever it is that Warlocks get level 6 spells) through 22-ish
Symbol of Death
Trap the Soul
Wail of the Banshee

Hold Monster mass very hard to pass up and Wail requires investment in Necro DC and guaranteed pick for a Necro... If charming mobs is addressed to the point where it's a worth wild playstyle then we can talk about Mass Charm and Dominate. Nukers with max CHA might take Trap the soul for a will save insta kill.

All in all very unispiring (and that's a comment about the sate of Arcane spells past heroic) but mostly there's just nothing much "warlocky" about the list...

You could make the red highlighted spells into Invocations and eliminate SP and the spell progression from the class (and make charming more effective and include those spells as well) and you would have a more Warlock like system.

Really though you guys need to put in at least a handful or Warlock skinned spells... even if that means shipping the class later.

[HastyPudding]

The following critique of the Warlock spell list is also generically applicable to all Arcanes that have these spells


Red are useful --- are comments from my perspective about utility/usefullness. Two of them are redundant and easily available elsewhere or as clickies (Shield and Nightshield) hypno is extremely niche as a will save debuff, and Masters touch is niche.

Verdict: Jump is clearly useful in almost every Warlocks case. Pick a second spell, No hard choices here.



Two spells here and only one of them is usefull to every Warlock (Warlocks in good groups will find Bluring party members to be a waste of SP)



There's nothing to talk about here, Displacement is Spell 1 and DDoor is spell 2 MAYBE a solo'er or someone in Shadowdancer takes Enervation...




I don't believe there is a hard 3rd choice in level 4 spells



ALL USEFUL SPELLS OF THIS LEVEL require massive investment in Necro DC's, I can imagine many warlock builds not even bothering casting 5th level spells.

For Necro focused they can use dragons blood to change circle of death to undead to death when you're doing a bunch of undead content and change back as needed.




Hold Monster mass very hard to pass up and Wail requires investment in Necro DC and guaranteed pick for a Necro... If charming mobs is addressed to the point where it's a worth wild playstyle then we can talk about Mass Charm and Dominate. Nukers with max CHA might take Trap the soul for a will save insta kill.

All in all very unispiring (and that's a comment about the sate of Arcane spells past heroic) but mostly there's just nothing much "warlocky" about the list...

You could make the red highlighted spells into Invocations and eliminate SP and the spell progression from the class (and make charming more effective and include those spells as well) and you would have a more Warlock like system.

Really though you guys need to put in at least a handful or Warlock skinned spells... even if that means shipping the class later.

Don't underestimate Mind Fog, that's a very handy spell for enchanters. At the moment, I can see people going either enchantment or necro specced...just like wizards. But yes, this list is a pretty tight pick and everyone will pick from the same 6-12 useful spells.