Warlocks!

[blurg]

I agree with you fully! It's just if the developers are super dead set on including SP, which I personally think they shouldn't, that they should allow Warlocks to infinitely cast spells with limits.

If they were able to, I, along with many others, would like to see many of the warlock's SLA put into play....but i'm not sure if spiderwalk is in game, and the dismembered hand could be hard to convert to ddo.

So I understand that they want to make a class like the warlock have spells instead of the SLA that are to hard to code into game, but if they could instead make the SP regen -OR- have the spells have cooldowns of 5 ~ 10 secs per lv of spell, then have enhancements that lowered spell cooldowns by 1/2/3 secs. Basically, make the limited spells they get BECOME the SLAs.

[FallingIcicle]

One great idea someone suggested is to give warlocks an improved Echoes of Power. Most spellcasters can get back up to 12 spell points with EoP, but what if warlocks could add their warlock class level to that limit? That way they could use spell points but never totally run out of magic. I think that would be a great compromise between DDO's SP system and the at-will spellcasting of pnp warlocks.

[rehakp]

One possibility for Warlock Past Lives:

• Passive: You were a Warlock in a past life. You occasionally find yourself throwing your hands into the air. Each time you acquire this feat you gain +3 Magical Resistance. This feat can be stacked up to three times.
• Active/Slottable: You recall more about your past life as a Warlock. You gain +3 to the Spellcraft skill. You can attack enemies with an Eldritch Ball six times per rest, dealing 1d6 Force damage per two character levels.

The passive past is nice. Not too strong but sort of universal for any future build so i think its OK. (Probabbly inspired by some popular ETR pastlives right ? )


The active Feat is pretty weak imho. Skillfocus spellcraft ? Does anyone really wants this in any build ? Does anyone really care for aproximately +0,5% damage on spells for 1 featslot ?
I know you would say past lifes not for everyone and there are other pastlifes that have this skillfocus + almost nothing. But why even waste time to design those feats that noone cares of.
We have some nice pastlifes that mimics usefull feats and adds something fun on top of that (like sorcerer, bard, ...) we even have strong wizard pastlife .. those are pastlifes that ppl like to consider taking and are happy with paying featslot for it. But no sane caster will throw away featslot for 3 spellcraft and force "fireball" 6x/rest. Meelee without spellpower gear makes alot more with 1 cleave so maybe epic fighter with those 20+ feats "could" slot it "as a joke".

What about something ppl can consider taking and make it even fun.
One random suggestion:
Active/Slottable: You recall more about your past life as a Warlock.
You gain 1% crit chance to all of your spells. (Like passive part of mental toughness and thematically fits into warlocks tree that boosts crit.)
You can sacrifice blood three times per rest dealing 1d4 damage to yourself and getting 10+character lvl spellpoints and spellpower bonus equal to your charisma modifier for next 15 sec. (Some spellpoints like mental tougness but in funny warlocklike way and small bonus on top of that)

And of course numbers can/will change because that is just my random brainstorm idea.
I bet people would like something like this more than "skillfocus spellcraft"

[B1rdw00d]

I agree with you fully! It's just if the developers are super dead set on including SP, which I personally think they shouldn't, that they should allow Warlocks to infinitely cast spells with limits.

If they were able to, I, along with many others, would like to see many of the warlock's SLA put into play....but i'm not sure if spiderwalk is in game, and the dismembered hand could be hard to convert to ddo.

So I understand that they want to make a class like the warlock have spells instead of the SLA that are to hard to code into game, but if they could instead make the SP regen -OR- have the spells have cooldowns of 5 ~ 10 secs per lv of spell, then have enhancements that lowered spell cooldowns by 1/2/3 secs. Basically, make the limited spells they get BECOME the SLAs.

Well then, I apologize for my last rant then, because I seem to have missed the infinite casting proposition; I do agree with FallingIcicle, about the improved EoP.
As for applying SLAs, they could just make all learned lock spells SLAs as is already applied in game (lower spell cost, about 1-7 depending on SLv)
With a big enough mana pool (and lets face it, w that cost even a paladin may consider becoming caster), locs will have some sort of 'infinite' casting

[Xerio]

the problem with any form of regenerating sp be it extended echos or what-have you becomes people multi classing into the class just to get the extra boost of SP regen.

[Uska]

the problem with any form of regenerating sp be it extended echos or what-have you becomes people multi classing into the class just to get the extra boost of SP regen.

Well you could have it work like sorc's increased item spell point boost and have it based on how many levels of the class they have 5% of the boost per class lvl

[Uska]

Of course RPing evil does not give ppl the right to grief; and my request is not about RP. Its simply that, given all the weapon properties around, and the SOURCE of DDO, it just doesn't seem right to remove one of the Alignments just because.
If I had one good reason as to why it's mechanically impossible/inappropriate/impractical to add Evil, I'll accept it. But as a player, who likes this game because its the best digital experience (that I know of) directly related to 3.5, I find it really sad not to be able to bring a Chaotic Evil cleric to life in it.
There is no reason not to, as far as I know; I don't think it would be an idiotic decision if they brought it up, because it brings more flavor to the game.

There is plenty of reasons not to and I am not going to list them again its been gone over and over with a minority wanting it and the majority against it since the game began. Previous dev teams said no way no how. I have no idea how the current team feels. Its a bad idea here and its a worse idea in pnp I dont know of a single good gm that would allow it and I have played under more than most.

[Xerio]

There is plenty of reasons not to and I am not going to list them again its been gone over and over with a minority wanting it and the majority against it since the game began. Previous dev teams said no way no how. I have no idea how the current team feels. Its a bad idea here and its a worse idea in pnp I dont know of a single good gm that would allow it and I have played under more than most.

it is not worth the time or effort to develop essentially a new game to run parallel DDO's current to incorporate evil quests, NPCs ect. nuff said.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

It occurred to me that if Eldridge Blast works like many rune arm effects that also go in a straight line and do not home in on their target.... that I will find it useless.

If instead it works like bows and crossbows, I would love it.
These can still miss if the target is moving sideways.


The problem with the run arm effects is that your default viewing angle has them shooting into the floor. (and for some strange reason still missing even at point blank range....)

While it is possible to angle your view upwards, or learn to jump while shooting... I find it basically useless to me personally.


Probably no time left, but please look at this and try to come up with something that is fun for players who do not frequently use mouselook to aim things.

[Uska]

It occurred to me that if Eldridge Blast works like many rune arm effects that also go in a straight line and do not home in on their target.... that I will find it useless.

If instead it works like bows and crossbows, I would love it.
These can still miss if the target is moving sideways.


The problem with the run arm effects is that your default viewing angle has them shooting into the floor. (and for some strange reason still missing even at point blank range....)

While it is possible to angle your view upwards, or learn to jump while shooting... I find it basically useless to me personally.


Probably no time left, but please look at this and try to come up with something that is fun for players who do not frequently use mouselook to aim things.

Good point and why I seldom bother firing my rune arm

[HatsuharuZ]

The first Fey Pact spell that gets added to the Warlock's spellbook is "Obscuring Mist". I don't see this spell get used a lot, so here is a suggestion for an alternative: http://ddowiki.com/page/Hypnotism

Hypnotism has synergy with later spells like "Slow" and various charm/suggestion spells, since it gives a no-save penalty to will saves against all targets.

[Silverleafeon]

The first Fey Pact spell that gets added to the Warlock's spellbook is "Obscuring Mist". I don't see this spell get used a lot, so here is a suggestion for an alternative: http://ddowiki.com/page/Hypnotism

Hypnotism has synergy with later spells like "Slow" and various charm/suggestion spells, since it gives a no-save penalty to will saves against all targets.

Hypo is very commonly cast right before Mass Hold monster.

[B1rdw00d]

There is plenty of reasons not to and I am not going to list them again its been gone over and over with a minority wanting it and the majority against it since the game began. Previous dev teams said no way no how. I have no idea how the current team feels. Its a bad idea here and its a worse idea in pnp I dont know of a single good gm that would allow it and I have played under more than most.

I do not wish for a sub discussion here, so I'll keep myself brief

- I did not know of the listing of reasons for no evil; I apologize for that, and if someone can link such a listing for me, I'd appreciate it; also, I take my wish of wanting it implemented back

- My current campaign's Master allows any alignment, restricting only our races to LA0 (or homebrewed LA+ reductions). We had a C/E Lesser Tiefling bard convince peasants to burn down a tavern by using Suggestion; a paladin and my paladin-wanna-be sorcerer almost killed him on sight, and it worked fine (with my sorcerer leaving the party because his zealotry wouldn't allow himself to live near such a foul person anymore).

Point being: not all evil has to be a psychopath

Edit: I forgot to point out that the paladin is a Grey Guard, and, having adventured for so long with the bard, he didn't feel that was a reason good enough to kill it, since the bard's persuasion powers had saved the party a few times already.

[Uska]

I do not wish for a sub discussion here, so I'll keep myself brief

- I did not know of the listing of reasons for no evil; I apologize for that, and if someone can link such a listing for me, I'd appreciate it; also, I take my wish of wanting it implemented back

- My current campaign's Master allows any alignment, restricting only our races to LA0 (or homebrewed LA+ reductions). We had a C/E Lesser Tiefling bard convince peasants to burn down a tavern by using Suggestion; a paladin and my paladin-wanna-be sorcerer almost killed him on sight, and it worked fine (with my sorcerer leaving the party because his zealotry wouldn't allow himself to live near such a foul person anymore).

Point being: not all evil has to be a psychopath

Edit: I forgot to point out that the paladin is a Grey Guard, and, having adventured for so long with the bard, he didn't feel that was a reason good enough to kill it, since the bard's persuasion powers had saved the party a few times already.

I have no idea what a grey guard is since I dont play pnp dnd anymore I only play HM5 which has proper paladins human only and lawful good and extremely hard to qualify for stats wise as well and since you only get 3d6 to roll your stats in HM5 you can imagine.


In some PnP games evil might work with a good GM and the right players it won't work here and to add an evil option for old quests or new quests with in mind isn't worth the work or the possible grief players would possibly deal out arguing they should be able to because they are evil

[B1rdw00d]

I just think the evil option could be added as a flavor thing; mechanic-wise, only change would be that they wouldn't get NegLv from equipping Unholy items (I forgot the actual prefix, but im talking about those items that grant NegLvs to Good characters)
Because lets face it, there isn't much mechanic going on behind the current alignment system other than the aligned equips (and some spells)

[Drathsiddh]

Skills
Warlocks receive skills points as follows:

• Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4.
• Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Warlock’s class skills include:

• Bluff (Cha)
• Concentration (Con)
• Intimidate (Cha)
• Jump (Str)
• Spellcraft (Int)
• Use Magic Device (Cha)

Paths
Warlocks will have one path available, likely based on the Fiend Pact. We'll welcome your ideas on details of this build.

Epic Destinies
Upon reaching level 20 for the first time with a character, Warlocks unlock Primal destinies. This is only relevant to new characters, not existing characters who have already unlocked any Destinies.

Here's another thing in the class that doesn't add up. It's been mentioned before but I doubt any serious thought has gone into it. Warlocks get Bluff, Conc, Intim, Jump, Spellcraft (any abbreviations for that?) and UMD. So what skills is a Warlock gonna be looking at?

UMD is obvious. A Cha based class which gets automatic bonuses to UMD and also UMD as a class skill will be crazy not to max it. Heal scrolls are the main self healing methods that this class gets.

Next will be Spellcraft: +1 spell power to everything except repair/rust, ('locks dont have any repair/rust spells) positive/negative (no positive spells, though the neg is a draw back for spells like FoD, but FoD is meant to be an insta-kill) and sonic (Fey pacts are gonna be hurt). It also will boost EB which is the primary source of damage for 'locks. So why wont you max it?

Conc is up there. Yes Quicken is a useful substitute but in terms of spell points, Warlocks have close to none so Quicken is gonna be a tough choice. Rumor is that Quicken is also going to increase the attack speed of EB, which will make it a must have feat. If so then Conc will be a dump skill, but I'd suggest you make it something like "for every two(?) points of Concentration you have, you gain +1% attack speed of your Eldiritch Blast. If the Quicken Spell Feat is active, you don't get any bonus to attack speed." That way it'll somewhat balance it without giving 'locks an unfavorable attack speed bonus over melees. If quicken is really gong to give a bonus to attack speed, at-least add a spell point cost every time the 'lock sends an EB. Maybe 1 spell-point every two shots. This way, 'locks wont be attacking faster than melees or farther than them while also dealing more damage.

Next up its a debate between Perform (Sonic SP for Fey), Bluff (class skill+Cha based class) and probably Heal. However, that is only if you have the skill points to spare.

See Warlocks get 2+int mod skill points per lvl. An average 'lock will have 18 Cha and 16 Con. 2 points into Str to prevent burden. so that'll be 2+-1 skill points=1 skill point per lvl. That'll go into Spellcraft for the DPS. Thats makes quicken a must. Despite the amazing bonuses to UMD, it wont be any use as we don't have the skill points. Humans and Drow will be able to squeeze in UMD but quicken is still a must. ONLY TRs don't have to take Quicken but it is unfair to assume every character is a TR. So the only way overcome this is to give Warlocks 4+Int mod, in which case an average toon will get 3 Skill Points, allowing for the three main skills to be taken. A Human or Drow could also take Perform.

[Damian]

Do you mean Spell Resistance, or MRR?

Please let it be MRR...

[HastyPudding]

Here's another thing in the class that doesn't add up. It's been mentioned before but I doubt any serious thought has gone into it. Warlocks get Bluff, Conc, Intim, Jump, Spellcraft (any abbreviations for that?) and UMD. So what skills is a Warlock gonna be looking at?

UMD is obvious. A Cha based class which gets automatic bonuses to UMD and also UMD as a class skill will be crazy not to max it. Heal scrolls are the main self healing methods that this class gets.

Next will be Spellcraft: +1 spell power to everything except repair/rust, ('locks dont have any repair/rust spells) positive/negative (no positive spells, though the neg is a draw back for spells like FoD, but FoD is meant to be an insta-kill) and sonic (Fey pacts are gonna be hurt). It also will boost EB which is the primary source of damage for 'locks. So why wont you max it?

Conc is up there. Yes Quicken is a useful substitute but in terms of spell points, Warlocks have close to none so Quicken is gonna be a tough choice. Rumor is that Quicken is also going to increase the attack speed of EB, which will make it a must have feat. If so then Conc will be a dump skill, but I'd suggest you make it something like "for every two(?) points of Concentration you have, you gain +1% attack speed of your Eldiritch Blast. If the Quicken Spell Feat is active, you don't get any bonus to attack speed." That way it'll somewhat balance it without giving 'locks an unfavorable attack speed bonus over melees. If quicken is really gong to give a bonus to attack speed, at-least add a spell point cost every time the 'lock sends an EB. Maybe 1 spell-point every two shots. This way, 'locks wont be attacking faster than melees or farther than them while also dealing more damage.

Next up its a debate between Perform (Sonic SP for Fey), Bluff (class skill+Cha based class) and probably Heal. However, that is only if you have the skill points to spare.

See Warlocks get 2+int mod skill points per lvl. An average 'lock will have 18 Cha and 16 Con. 2 points into Str to prevent burden. so that'll be 2+-1 skill points=1 skill point per lvl. That'll go into Spellcraft for the DPS. Thats makes quicken a must. Despite the amazing bonuses to UMD, it wont be any use as we don't have the skill points. Humans and Drow will be able to squeeze in UMD but quicken is still a must. ONLY TRs don't have to take Quicken but it is unfair to assume every character is a TR. So the only way overcome this is to give Warlocks 4+Int mod, in which case an average toon will get 3 Skill Points, allowing for the three main skills to be taken. A Human or Drow could also take Perform.

In PnP, warlocks are pretty much masters of UMD along with bards. They're supposed to use magical items without any sort of effort. Maxing UMD is extremely easy with a charisma-based class that gets +10 UMD just by having class levels. Why spend a ton of points in UMD, rather than just a few, when you know you're going to get a ton of UMD just by simply being a warlock? Even on a bard, maxing out every point you can put into UMD is often a waste of skill points.

Spellcraft is obvious, yes, I agree with you on that.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that warlocks have no spell points. I can reach 3000+ easily on a spellsinger with little effort. Optimizing gear, feats, and enhancements, you should be able to easily reach 2.5-3k spell points on a warlock. Warlocks also only use spell points for crowd control and debuffing, not direct damage like a sorcerer or wizard would, so they're not constantly spamming nuke spells.

Eldritch blast using SP? No way, in no shape or form will that ever happen. Period. Eldritch blast is the most iconic ability a warlock has and it's always been free to use and able to be used whenever they want. Tampering with that mechanic is just asking for trouble. It's bad enough warlocks have an SP pool to begin with; don't play in the giant pit of lava when you get burned by a tiny match. I, for one, don't think quicken should work on eldritch blast, anyway, and in any event, this all needs testing on lammania, first.

Perform would be a no-brainer if you're a fey-pact warlock. Keep in mind that fey pact, currently, is the only pact that can multiclass with paladins, so it's a balancing act; a paladin/warlock hybrid is a very strong combination.

[illuminar]

One possibility for Warlock Past Lives:

• Passive: You were a Warlock in a past life. You occasionally find yourself throwing your hands into the air. Each time you acquire this feat you gain +3 Magical Resistance. This feat can be stacked up to three times.
• Active/Slottable: You recall more about your past life as a Warlock. You gain +3 to the Spellcraft skill. You can attack enemies with an Eldritch Ball six times per rest, dealing 1d6 Force damage per two character levels.

I was imagining the exact same thing so either I've been playing too long or it's perfect. While you are in there, don't forget about a skill focus: spell craft for those non-tr'd warlocks...

[illuminar]

Some more gritty details about Warlocks!Feat Progression

Level	Feat	Eldritch Blast	Fey	Fiend	Great Old One
1	Eldritch Blast Pact Choice	1d6 Force	Pact Spell	PactSpell	Pact Spell
2	Deceive Item (UMD+5)	1d4 Pact bonus damage	Sonic Damage on EB	Fire damage on EB	Acid damage on EB
3		2d6 base damage
4		+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses(+1 Reflex Saves)	Fiendish Resilience(+1 Fort Saves)	Thought Shield(+1 Will Saves)
5		3d6 base damage	Pact Spell	Pact Spell	Pact Spell
6		+1d4 Pact	Dark Delirium (Daze monster, % chance damage breaks)	Dark One's Luck(+2 to each Saving Throw)	Entropic Ward(+5 MRR, 25 Fortification)
7		4d6 base damage
8		+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
9		5d6	Pact Spell	Pact Spell	Pact Spell
10		+1d4 Pact	Energy Resist (5)	Energy Resist (5)	Energy Resist (5)
11		6d6 base damage
12	Paragon's Aegis (+5 MRR)	+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
13	Deceive Item (UMD+5)
14	Paragon's Aegis	7d6 base damage+1d4 Pact	Pact Spell	Pact Spell	Pact Spell
15			Misty Escape (Ethereal Abundant-Step)	Hurl Through Hell(Single Target EiN)	Create Thrall(Charm Monster variant)
16	Paragon's Aegis	+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
17		8d6 base damage	Pact Spell	Pact Spell	Pact Spell
18	Paragon's Aegis	+1d4 Pact
19			Pact Spell	Pact Spell	Pact Spell
20	Paragon's Aegis	9d6 base damage+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield

• Energy Resist (5): Will this stack with the spell? If not make it 2/level and specific to 2 energies or drop it.
• Deceive Item (UMD+5): IMO overkilling the UMD, free skill focus at L2 and free 2nd roll on failure at L13
• Dark One's Luck(+2 to each Saving Throw): MEH in the context of having Fiendish Resilience, consider a + force damage or another small scale damage buff.