Warlocks!

[UurlockYgmeov]

I have been pressing for a handicapped DDO class option for some time now, this might fit the bill fairly well. Not that it would be limited to that but it could be played effectively without a ton of button mashing.

Yes, there are combat wounded vets out there that play DDO. One of my old Guild Leaders played with two prosthetic arms and did very well with a hybrid twf ranger.

Of course older players and for the days when we want to kick back and take it easy, etc...

I like this - because button smashing on both the keyboard AND a 17 button mouse gets, well old.... I just can't wait to play ML Cleric and just follow everybody around occasionally healing them.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

I'd totally buy and play as this character if you include an enhancement tree with a version of Tensor's Transformation that is a toggle option!

Description:
Causes the caster to become a virtual fighting machine becoming stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. You gain a +4 alchemical bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +6 alchemical bonus to Armor Class, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level. Your spellcasting ability is reduced, resulting in a -2 penalty to all spell DCs, -2 to your rolls to bypass enemy Spell Resistance, and doubling the cooldown of your spells.

Just change the alchemical bonus for strength to a stat of the player's choosing.

Also, how all would a Melee build of one of these characters work anyhow?

[FranOhmsford]

Il be perfecty honest.
No class has any kind of issues with umd in modern ddo.
I can basically have no fail umd for all scrolls i want as barb with starting 8 charisma.
Giving umd to 2 warlock for me is not something "gamebreaking" but more like something that is so bad and useless that i cant express any kind positive attitude toward that

No class has any problems getting max UMD required at LVL 28!

Where UMD is broken is that you can get it earlier and earlier!

I complained back in 2010-2012 that UMD was functionally useless to low level characters but this was NOT what I was after as a response!

Now I'm not sure whether it is actually possible to use the scroll what with min lvls required but if it's not already possible it soon will be to have UMD for Heal Scrolls BEFORE a Cleric can even learn the spell!

If that's not broken then I don't know what is!

[FranOhmsford]

And Earthquake is a Cleric spell. So what? Tentacles is an iconic warlock spell, not everything has to bleed into every other class.

Warlocks didn't even EXIST when I first played PnP D&D and Evard's Black Tentacles was an Iconic Spell even back then!

I feel EXACTLY the same way about Earthquake btw - Clerics and FvSouls SHOULD get it!
But at least Druid is a REAL CLASS!

I'm not talking about "bleeding into" here either!
I'm talking about an ICONIC Spell being given to an overblown Prestige but not to the BASE CLASS that that Prestige is taken from!

[Chi_Ryu]

Now I'm not sure whether it is actually possible to use the scroll what with min lvls required but if it's not already possible it soon will be to have UMD for Heal Scrolls BEFORE a Cleric can even learn the spell!

Scrolls are always 2 levels lower than the point where you can cast the spell at will, so in this case Heal is from level 9. Clerics can automatically use the scrolls without failure at that point, though - so I'm not sure why you have an issue with it.

[FranOhmsford]

I never asked for warlock, tiefling, dragonborn, Aasimar or gnome, but I'll gladly take whatever Turbine gives me. I don't care even a little if it's heavily influenced by what the producers/devs want personally.

What I am seeing with the design of Warlock is a new-player friendly casting class that has options when spell points are low. There are some easy-button casting builds now, but they are fairly difficult for a new player to conceptualize.

Warlock will be something a new player can play "out of the box" as a 20 warlock and be fairly effective since there are options when sp gets low.

I remember running a shroud with my son years ago and he ran out of sp in part IV and pulled out his crossbow. He got a bit of abuse from 2 players that I thought were powergamers at the time, but now that I know the game better I realize they are just 2 players with issues that aren't even all that good. Still that was a major problem both of us had when we were new to playing casters - sp management.

You often advocate for new players - so I am a bit shocked at your opposition for warlock since it seems like a new-player-friendly casting build to me. I understand you want gnome and based on Sev's prior comments I am thinking that's a real possibility in the future.

I'm sorry but I'm conceptually against EVIL Player Characters in D&D and despite attempts to fit in pacts with good aligned creatures {guess what...that's called a Favoured Soul or Cleric!} I don't like the idea of Warlocks in DDO full stop!

I'm also not seeing this supposed easy out of the box for newbies class that you're seeing - I'm only seeing yet more Power Creep asked for by Elitists! {I'm seriously worried now that the next race is going to be Tieflings!}.

[Angelic-council]

Eldritch blast is a toggle and it was mentioned that it's just like swinging a sword. Basically, you take a stance and able to spam it? just like an arrow shot. I understand it scales with spell power and spell critical. Since there are no offensive spells in warlock spell list. I assume that we get SLAs based on eldritch blast.. What concerns me is the eldritch blast stance... does it affected by ranged type epic destinies? or it's pure casting. If so, that means you guys really need to find a way on how to let eldritch blast scale in epics.

[FranOhmsford]

Scrolls are always 2 levels lower than the point where you can cast the spell at will, so in this case Heal is from level 9. Clerics can automatically use the scrolls without failure at that point, though - so I'm not sure why you have an issue with it.

Because I'm not talking about Clerics being able to Scroll Cast but about every other toon being able to self heal to that extent at a level where the Cleric can't even LEARN the spell!

I've also always been against the very idea that a Lvl 7 Cleric should be forced to carry around a stack of Heal Scrolls anyway! {Certain players expect far too much of other players in DDO!}.

More than anything else in DDO it's the availability of Scrolls, Potions and Wands that have contributed the most heavily to Power Creep!
If Turbine had restricted them more strongly in the first place and confined UMD to ONLY the classes that should have it {Bards and very high level Rogues back then - Add Artis when they got introduced} there'd have been a lot less need for all the changes DDO's gone through!
P.S. No..Arcane and Divine Casters should not have been allowed to take UMD - They are able to use their own scrolls without it and being able to use each others was always a mistake!

Of course Turbine made the mistake of introducing race & alignment restricted items {which they've since gone back on!} with very high for low level characters UMD requirements!
So UMD had to be available to everyone even though it did make very low level race/alignment restricted items in many cases functionally useless - I give you race required Halfling Docents for example!

[Chi_Ryu]

{guess what...that's called a Favoured Soul or Cleric!}

No, it isn't. Neither of those form a pact with a good aligned creature - they are both followers of a deity, which is not at all the same thing. Divine magic is about belief and devotion, "a character has to believe that the deity is worth following, and devote himself to that cause" (The Complete Divine, p5), but a Warlock "seeks to master the perilous magic that suffuses his soul." (The Complete Arcane p5)

And Good-aligned warlocks "often turn to the worship of noble and true deities for the strength to win the battle raging in their tortured souls." (The Complete Arcane p6)

If Turbine had restricted them more strongly in the first place

...then this game might very well have been dead by now, from boredom of waiting hours for a divine to grace your groups.

[Blackheartox]

No class has any problems getting max UMD required at LVL 28!

Where UMD is broken is that you can get it earlier and earlier!

I complained back in 2010-2012 that UMD was functionally useless to low level characters but this was NOT what I was after as a response!

Now I'm not sure whether it is actually possible to use the scroll what with min lvls required but if it's not already possible it soon will be to have UMD for Heal Scrolls BEFORE a Cleric can even learn the spell!

If that's not broken then I don't know what is!

On a char based class with plifes atm you can reach no fail heal scroll usage at lv 9 which is the min lv for the scroll usage.
Its not even that hard nowadays, even so more on char based classes like sorcs/bards n such

[slarden]

I'm sorry but I'm conceptually against EVIL Player Characters in D&D and despite attempts to fit in pacts with good aligned creatures {guess what...that's called a Favoured Soul or Cleric!} I don't like the idea of Warlocks in DDO full stop!

I'm also not seeing this supposed easy out of the box for newbies class that you're seeing - I'm only seeing yet more Power Creep asked for by Elitists! {I'm seriously worried now that the next race is going to be Tieflings!}.

I role-played an evil character in P&P as part of a campaign that required all characters to be evil and didn't enjoy it so much. I might be wrong but I don't believe DDO even supports evil as an alignment.

This is role-play based MMO so really any of us can create a story-line about our character not being evil even if we are playing warlocks, assassins or palemasters. "Fey" and "Great Old One" are not necessarily evil. Even if you have a pact with a fiend it does not necessarily mean that you are evil or have unwavering devotion to the fiend.

I am with you and hope the next race is gnome and NOT tiefling.

[SirValentine]

Maximize and Empower should work with Eld Blast. It should also work with PM SLAs for that matter- PM SLAs are useless without those in end game content.

They should be useful. But what about just making the PM SLAs, and Eldritch Blast, good enough to be useful without metamagics?

You can't Maximize Energy Burst, and nobody says it's useless.

[Drakos]

Except... it's contradictory. Let's have a look through The Complete Arcane (Richard Baker, 2004):

Sure, in the alignment section of p7 it does state "Any evil or any chaotic", but that is not as clear when you consider the actual descriptions given elsewhere:
p5: "Adventures: Many warlocks are champions of dark and chaotic powers." - doesn't imply all in the slightest.
p6: "Alignment: Warlocks are often chaotic or evil (and more than a few are both)" or "A good-aligned warlock is a grim and fearsome enemy of evil" and finally "just as a sorcerer is not beholden to the magic-wielding ancestor that bequeathed his bloodline with arcane power, a warlock is not bound to follow the source that gifted him with magic."

Except that the stuff you quote is fluff text, which is notoriously bad for ambiguity, and the stuff on page 7 is under the Game Rules Information which is stating the rules of the class as they pertain to the game system.

And that's just 3.5E. From what I understand, none of this applies in 5E.

True, however in 5e there are no alignment restrictions, even for Paladins. Since they have already descided to enforce other alignment restrictions, there is no reason for this departure.

I therefore have no qualms about some Warlocks being lawful, good and/or lawful good (dependent on the nature of the pact), regardless of the "Game Rule Information" section limiting it so much. I refer you to the opening paragraphs of the Dungeon Master Handbook, 1st edition: "Pronouncements there may be, but they are not from "on high" as respects your game.".

Otherwise known as Rule Zero. However, there this does not preclude the players from trying to get the DM to see common sense and reason.

[slarden]

They should be useful. But what about just making the PM SLAs, and Eldritch Blast, good enough to be useful without metamagics?

You can't Maximize Energy Burst, and nobody says it's useless.

Yeah that would be better otherwise we will see more cookie cutter builds since warlocks will be a feat-starved class if maximize and empower are necessary for just the blast. Perhaps an epic feat or two that will boost the Eld Blast.

[nibel]

On a char based class with plifes atm you can reach no fail heal scroll usage at lv 9 which is the min lv for the scroll usage.
Its not even that hard nowadays, even so more on char based classes like sorcs/bards n such

I want to see that breakdown. Remember that at level 9 you can't use Greensteel or +2 Good Luck items/augment.

[Uska]

Warlocks didn't even EXIST when I first played PnP D&D and Evard's Black Tentacles was an Iconic Spell even back then!

I feel EXACTLY the same way about Earthquake btw - Clerics and FvSouls SHOULD get it!
But at least Druid is a REAL CLASS!

I'm not talking about "bleeding into" here either!
I'm talking about an ICONIC Spell being given to an overblown Prestige but not to the BASE CLASS that that Prestige is taken from!

Exactly I think the spell came out in one of the first AD&D modules

[Uska]

I'm sorry but I'm conceptually against EVIL Player Characters in D&D and despite attempts to fit in pacts with good aligned creatures {guess what...that's called a Favoured Soul or Cleric!} I don't like the idea of Warlocks in DDO full stop!

I'm also not seeing this supposed easy out of the box for newbies class that you're seeing - I'm only seeing yet more Power Creep asked for by Elitists! {I'm seriously worried now that the next race is going to be Tieflings!}.

Yeah I am afraid of that as well

[Spekdah_NZ]

I am happy just to see a new class! Nice to see the last outstanding base class arrive.

I remember Ammon Jerro joins the party in the classic NWN2 game (Obsidian/Bioware), loved having him in the party. So when Storm of Zehir came out I made a whole party of Tiefling Warlocks in one playthough, hilarious and ton of fun if far from optimal.

At least its a class that plays a little differently from the others. Might not be to everyone's taste but it sure is mine. Stuff like Psion looks like you would have to add much more stuff than slot in class (feats, abilities, equipment, um zones and quests) to make sense of it.

[Lanadazia]

first of all, i have no clue about warlocks, never came across one in DnD or pathfinder, but i have an idea of what a warlock actually is.

i really like that you consider bringing a new class to the game. i've read in this thread a few posts and think you should take your time, releasing the warlock when its polished, rather then when its basically playable.
i mean, there are people that want a melle warlock (i'd definitley have a look on that too) and then there are more caster-focused players.
both ideas sound great. and i'm happy to roll anything new i haven't tried yet. the more options we get, the better gets the game aswell. when i started playing ddo i learnt, that this game is superior in character design and details, i've never seen a major-customization in character creation before and i love it! try out own ideas, combine stuff you've learnt etc. its a fun system! adding more options just makes it better. so its very welcome!

Some still-early thoughts based on feedback (can't really promise anything, should probably wait until the work week starts and all other designers can chip in)

• Metamagics will surely be a topic of some discussion. "Desirable feats" for Warlock is also a likely topic of discussion, more broadly. Adding choice and diversity is a major goal. At the same time we want to make sure "caster" Warlocks aren't just scrambling for any useful feat to find. (We do like that there are serious discussions for Wizards/Sorcs about whether or not Maximize and Empower are both entirely necessary, and some of those characters may be best off without them.)
• We of course still want to add new spells to the game, including particular for Warlock's release.
• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?
• Spell points are probably here to stay in some form, but we're aware that having some spell-point free abilities is important.

if we could have enlarge and extend revamped, i'd be one of the players gladly take them. enlarge just doesn't really gets the 'yeah finally i got that'-feeling like other metamagics. maybe another effect like an additional projectile on ray/projectile spells (like scorching ray, magic missle, frost lance, etc) to bump it up to the other metamagic feats (maximize, empower, highten). (just an idea. i'd like to get more customizing with metamagics, but the 3 standard ones)

at some point extend got pretty useless, since it was made to work on buff spells only. can we have the old extend back that can extend ALL spells? i really miss that and i don't know whats wrong with having offensive spells (like clouds, glitterdust, dancing spheres, firewalls, etc) being extended.
right now extend is pretty much dead, especially since level 1 buffs got a 5 minute duration on caster-level1 already!

will there be all-new spells for arcane and divine spell lists with the release of the warlock? i don't mean warlock-specific spells/enhancements, but general spells, each arcane/divine could get?
i really enjoyed the addition of scorch and the electric/cold DoT spells a few years back.
and i'm still waiting for new grade 9 divine spells (clerics have no real choice, since its only 5 spells), also arcane casters only got a choice of 8 spells!
also grade 7,8 and 9 spells are too few imo. i'd love to see new high level spells added to the game. maybe another dot for divine and arcane casters. some fluff/occassion spells for all spell lists and maybe a grade 9 damage spell for each element?
even if they'd be no must-have-spells, i'd like to see new additions, just to give us more options and preparing for different situations. (ooze puppet in enter the kobold is a good example, situational spells are fun!)
if not on general spell-lists, i'd like to see more spells-via-enhancements / enhancements that add new spells to your spellbook(i really liked that sunbolt enhancement!!)

mustn't be spellpoint free, i guess a SLA like we have them for sorceres right now is fine too.
maybe a few more choices here too would be cool

They've already ignored the fact that some players don't even want Warlocks in the game at all!

if we listened to the people saying 'no!' to progress, we'd still be in the middle age

[HastyPudding]

Yeah I am afraid of that as well

Uska, I kind of like that you don't like warlock because, when they come out and I TR my uber completionist into one, there will be one less warlock in korthos to bother me. I've never seen anyone so upset and annoyed over a new class being released in any game that I have ever played.

I'd just like to put in that I LOVE warlocks, and this old sourpuss isn't going to make me not want to play them.