Warlocks!

[Uska]

What majority?

I've always seen the number of people after Warlocks as a very small minority! {And it's usually accompanied by requests for OP Player races like Aasimar, Tiefling and Dragonborn!}.

Especially when compared to those who want Gnomes!

Exactly I think there are two reasons they went with warlocks

1. Dev in charge want d them this acounts for 99%

2. Ease of doing them

[FuryFlash]

What majority?

I've always seen the number of people after Warlocks as a very small minority! {And it's usually accompanied by requests for OP Player races like Aasimar, Tiefling and Dragonborn!}.

Especially when compared to those who want Gnomes!

Well, I certainly don't have any statistics, but again, neither do you. Neither of us can prove our points, and we both believe that we are correct due to what we have each personally seen on the forums. We are probably reading different threads and posts throughout, and therefor are not seeing the same replies. For example, Dragonborn? I have only ever seen two or three people for it, and many more against. It's probably completely different for you. Besides, you have only argued for races here. What class was wanted more than Warlocks?

But does it matter? Here we are, in the official forum for Warlocks, talking about how they were/weren't wanted and how other races are more popular, when all we are doing is wasting our time, and the time of those who are reading it. What we really should be doing is contributing to the conversation at hand, which is how can we make warlocks great? I'm sure you will agree that even the people who hate Warlocks would rather see them done well than messed up! If you have ideas to improve Warlocks, I'm sure everyone would love to hear them.

[FuryFlash]

And where do you get the majority? On polls for new classes warlocks may have been high but they were never ever number one

Please direct me to these polls, this interests me greatly.

[Qhualor]

Exactly I think there are two reasons they went with warlocks

1. Dev in charge want d them this acounts for 99%

2. Ease of doing them

Some time awhile back Sev actually explained why. Basically it was because of coding mixed with player desires.

[ToastyFred]

And where do you get the majority? On polls for new classes warlocks may have been high but they were never ever number one

At this point, I'd say a strong majority of DDO players are in favor of a new class. In my case, I'm in favor of something new and, quite frankly, it didn't really matter what class it was.

Would I have preferred something else besides the Warlock? Maybe a Psionic class of some sort but honestly, the Warlock is probably just as good because it is new.

To me, the fact the new class is NEW, overrides WHAT it is.

[FranOhmsford]

And where do you get the majority? On polls for new classes warlocks may have been high but they were never ever number one

And considering there's only one TRUE class still missing that's saying something!

Warlock isn't a Class anyway - It's a sub-class of Wizard or Sorc!
Heck Sorc is a Sub-Class in it's own right!

Apart from Psionicist there's literally nothing else left to add as a Class to DDO {unless we start adding NPC Classes like Blacksmith or Sage!}!

Turbine should really be concentrating on new Races to broaden the appeal not Classes!
Just off the top of my head and with no OP Outsider Races there's:

Sylvan Elves {Aerenal/Valenar was an extremely minimal attempt at Elf Subraces, Morninglords are an atrocity as Grey Elves!}
Mountain Dwarves/Duegar {Seriously - Give us another Dwarf Subrace!}
Svirfneblin/Forest Gnomes/Zilargo Gnomes
Kobolds
Hobgoblins
Gnolls

Mountain Dwarves could be given +2 Wis/+2 Con/-2 Dex/-2 Int
Sylvan Elves could be given +2 Dex/+2 Str/-2 Con/-2 Cha

Svirfnebli and Forest Gnomes both were +Wis races in 2nd Ed. AD&D {I can't find my Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings atm but their stats in there would fit for DDO with the obvious changing of +1s to +2s and -1s to -2s}

Zilargo Gnomes would fit as an +2 Int/Cha race or +2 Int/Dex race

Kobolds as seen in DDO are completely different to PnP so go with it Devs and give them +2 Cha/Dex and -2 Str/Con

Hobgoblins may be too similar to H-Orcs but again you have the option {as you did with H-Orcs but failed to capitalise on} to make them the go to race for Druids - +2 Str/Wis and -2 Dex/Int

Gnolls have a very strong presence in Xen'drik too.
I'd give them +2 Dex/Str and -2 Int/Wis

[ToastyFred]

In epic elite, its a must feat.
I wont go thro all spellbooks and tell what spells its good used on since that would a a whole page long reply.
But that feat is a must pick for ee

Agreed.

A lot of DDO players won't/can't play EE though so they don't understand Quicken's utility at that level of play.

[Uska]

Please direct me to these polls, this interests me greatly.

I am not your fourm monkey if you look you can find I post in them so,I have no need or desire to see them again since they were completely and utterly ignored.

[Uska]

At this point, I'd say a strong majority of DDO players are in favor of a new class. In my case, I'm in favor of something new and, quite frankly, it didn't really matter what class it was.

Would I have preferred something else besides the Warlock? Maybe a Psionic class of some sort but honestly, the Warlock is probably just as good because it is new.

To me, the fact the new class is NEW, overrides WHAT it is.

Agsin I disagree about majority Desiree but agree people are happy to,get a new class but a majority are happy currently how it's being done

[ToastyFred]

Agsin I disagree about majority Desiree but agree people are happy to,get a new class but a majority are happy currently how it's being done

???

[Uska]

And considering there's only one TRUE class still missing that's saying something!

Warlock isn't a Class anyway - It's a sub-class of Wizard or Sorc!
Heck Sorc is a Sub-Class in it's own right!

Apart from Psionicist there's literally nothing else left to add as a Class to DDO {unless we start adding NPC Classes like Blacksmith or Sage!}!

Turbine should really be concentrating on new Races to broaden the appeal not Classes!
Just off the top of my head and with no OP Outsider Races there's:

Sylvan Elves {Aerenal/Valenar was an extremely minimal attempt at Elf Subraces, Morninglords are an atrocity as Grey Elves!}
Mountain Dwarves/Duegar {Seriously - Give us another Dwarf Subrace!}
Svirfneblin/Forest Gnomes/Zilargo Gnomes
Kobolds
Hobgoblins
Gnolls

Mountain Dwarves could be given +2 Wis/+2 Con/-2 Dex/-2 Int
Sylvan Elves could be given +2 Dex/+2 Str/-2 Con/-2 Cha

Svirfnebli and Forest Gnomes both were +Wis races in 2nd Ed. AD&D {I can't find my Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings atm but their stats in there would fit for DDO with the obvious changing of +1s to +2s and -1s to -2s}

Zilargo Gnomes would fit as an +2 Int/Cha race or +2 Int/Dex race

Kobolds as seen in DDO are completely different to PnP so go with it Devs and give them +2 Cha/Dex and -2 Str/Con

Hobgoblins may be too similar to H-Orcs but again you have the option {as you did with H-Orcs but failed to capitalise on} to make them the go to race for Druids - +2 Str/Wis and -2 Dex/Int

Gnolls have a very strong presence in Xen'drik too.
I'd give them +2 Dex/Str and -2 Int/Wis

Agree in general I would also prefer adding races and fixes over doing a rather poor version of a class thst wasn't great and frequently disallowed in the first place

[TheGuyYouKnow]

[*]We'll probably strongly consider not tying Warlock to the Primal Sphere of Epic Destinies.

the problem with warlock they dont fit into any current tree, theoretically they are primal buy nothing in primal fits well with warlock. if it were up to me i would make a new destiny sphere for the middle(and move material up)that properly connects each tree to each other rather than going through material which makes no sense.

arcane/material for spellsword/arti
primal/arcane for warlock

[FranOhmsford]

Well, I certainly don't have any statistics, but again, neither do you. Neither of us can prove our points, and we both believe that we are correct due to what we have each personally seen on the forums. We are probably reading different threads and posts throughout, and therefor are not seeing the same replies. For example, Dragonborn? I have only ever seen two or three people for it, and many more against. It's probably completely different for you. Besides, you have only argued for races here. What class was wanted more than Warlocks?

Since when is Psionicist a Race?

I stated Kalashtar because:
1) They're a Race in Eberron that specializes in Psionics!
and
2) People have asked for them again and again and again on these forums ALONG with Psionics!

People asking for Warlocks is also relatively new compared to DDO - Gnomes, DRUIDS, Kalashtar, Kobold PCs and the blatantly OP Shapeshifter/Changeling and Outsider Races have all been asked for many many more times and for far longer!

As for Dragonborn - You've missed out on the many many threads asking for them on these forums {Admittedly a number if not all of those threads may have been started by just a handful of people - I don't go back and check each time - and they usually get short shrift from other players but comparative to Warlocks I'd say it's pretty even and I could say the same about the people asking for them couldn't I!


In fact, As I stated earlier...Most Warlock suggestions have been an addendum to getting the blatantly OP Outsider Races added as PCs in DDO!
I've never seen anyone ask to play a Human or Dwarf or Warforged or Elf Warlock but I've seen plenty of people asking to be able to play Tiefling Warlocks!

It's Tieflings people wanted NOT Warlocks!

[songswrath]

i think he just hates the class and thinks so does everyone else !?! we all have our opinions and and want to voice them and have that right so more power to yah

[dunklezhan]

• Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

I'm in favour of alignment restrictions on pacts and on certain abilities in trees, but not locking out whole trees. Alignment should matter significantly for warlock, paladin, monk, barbarian, and druid, but it shouldn't cripple them. This is a lore-based opinion, not a balance based one.

[mezzorco]

• Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

Here I am.
Let me start saying that, although skeptical at first, I support the way 5e sees Warlocks.
The idea of not restricting Warlock alignment opens up RP options, for example a good hearted man that had to "make a pact with the devil" for greater good.

Anyway, I'm concerned about alignment restrictions being tied with Pacts, and Pacts being feats.
In a tabletop game, a player builds his character, chooses an alignment, feats, etc. and never changes them, he doesn't even want to.
But in a MMORPG, a player is supposed to be able to change some aspect of his toon, like which Pact to be in.

Different pacts make up different toons, and I fear that a LG Fey Warlock has to change his alignment first, if he wants to talk with Fred.
A CG Great Old One Warlock would have similar problems if he intends to switch to Fiend.

In my opinion, you could avoid this (if you're willing to) in two ways:

• Tie alignment restriction with the Warlock class itself and make it "any non Lawful". Indeed, Fey is pretty much chaotic in nature.
• Remove alignment restriction, like 5e did. A LG Fiend Warlock can be justified more than a LG Pale Master or Assassin. Since DDO doesn't support evil characters, you might as well remove the restriction rather than relax it.

My fear is that every Warlock in the game will be true neutral, bar those with Paladin and Monk levels.

[FranOhmsford]

To me, the fact the new class is NEW, overrides WHAT it is.

So you'd have been happy if they added Blacksmith {It has been A Class in D&D!} would you?

[Captain_Wizbang]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Warlock melees were expected to be cross classed. Apologies for the confusion. Two of the trees will support melee Warlocks. Cross classing is not expected but is supported.

[Silverleafeon]

[*]We'll probably strongly consider not tying Warlock to the Primal Sphere of Epic Destinies.

Although starting Warlocks in Primal seems good, tying caster levels to primal does not seem as good as arcane imho. Tough call. If you do tie to primal it yields an immediately urgency to make all primal Tri Stat choices including Cha. If you do tie to arcane, it pushes forward Sev's revist Magistar and Draconic plans.

[*]Metamagics will surely be a topic of some discussion. "Desirable feats" for Warlock is also a likely topic of discussion, more broadly. Adding choice and diversity is a major goal. At the same time we want to make sure "caster" Warlocks aren't just scrambling for any useful feat to find. (We do like that there are serious discussions for Wizards/Sorcs about whether or not Maximize and Empower are both entirely necessary, and some of those characters may be best off without them.)

Warlocks will want Empower and Maximize for an Epic Destiny SLAs regardless of whether you tie them to EB or not.
Multi-class casters will want Empower and Maximize for other class spells.

Melee Warlocks might want to spend their feats on melee feats.

Quicken is pretty much a must have for EE content.
Scrolling is pretty much a risk for EE content.
{Both due to mob scalling in Epics and the lack to concern/revisting Combat Casting and the like. No real solution here atm.}

[*]We of course still want to add new spells to the game, including particular for Warlock's release.

I'm greedy will take whatever new/reskinned stuff you have to offer.
{but you are allowed coffee breaks/sleep at least twice a year keep up the great work}

Black Tenacles is a classic Warlock, but I know that might be a lot of work.

Please change any more Epic Feat Spells to be SLA so we can apply maximize and empower for free.
Thank you and I am flexable on this point somewhat.

Please offer a few existing twistable Epic Destiny spells/sla as Epic Feats, including Tsumai, Energy Burst, Avenging Light, etc..
This would offer more Feat Choices for the Epic 24+ range easily added to the game.

[*]I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?

Warlocks are all about Save or Die spells.
Look over their list.
There is not much difference between CC and Instant Kill on a great party its all about Saving or being eliminated.
Please keep death spells.

[*]Spell points are probably here to stay in some form, but we're aware that having some spell-point free abilities is important.

We beat that horse to death in the Warlock project.
Honestly I started out not wanting spell points, but it never worked out without them.
Good call.

[*]Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

A bit more on God and Country.

History: World War II

Lawful Good Axis soldiers killed and were killed by Lawful Good Allies soldiers.

Why?

Because their countries were at war with each other. They fought because their country asked them too.
There is more to behavior than alignment.

[Silverleafeon]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Warlock melees were expected to be cross classed. Apologies for the confusion. Two of the trees will support melee Warlocks. Cross classing is not expected but is supported.

I continue to raise my support for melee warlock options.
{Even though I slightly prefer to play casters personally.}

Variety is the spice of life.