Warlocks!

[Blackheartox]

I knew someone would state that Blind is good but correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't both Blindness and PW: Blind single target spells?
As such neither are likely to be on any Player Character's bar except for certain very specific quests {you mentioned MoD?} and even then probably not as good compared to other spells as you're making out here.

Even worse - These spells are rendered utterly moot by the far more effective {mainly because of ease of use} blindness effects on gear!


PK is Ok - Not a great choice but not a bad choice either for Tier 3
Fireshield may be able to be scrolled but why waste the plat, the inv. space and take the chance of scroll failure due to concentration checks when you have the spell itself? {also Scrolls can be dispelled by mobs with that spell even easier than actual cast spells}.


Yes Fey get Disco Ball but it's almost like the Devs saw that and decided to overcompensate by giving them a load of trash in the other tiers! {Also Disco Ball basically requires you use a Feat Slot on Quicken - otherwise only a must for WF Arcanes and Divines}.
Irresistable Dance is a good spell but very hard to get to work considering you not only have to be in melee but facing the mob! - I'd say that both Howl of Terror and PW: Kill beat this out of sight!


Like you I'm not sure how good Binding Chains is going to be and if Howl of Terror requires Wolf Form for Warlocks then it's going to be completely worthless!
But chances are Binding Chains is going to be strong and HoT won't require Wolf Form making it blatantly the most powerful free ability in that table!

Blinds duration as spell and ability to land it realiably makes archers in mark a 0 threat, and trust me those hit hard on ee
About feat slot on quicken, as i know any caster will want that feat, any caster build really truly wants that feat.

Oh i didnt ask this, but sev what casting times and cds will warlock have on its spells?
Same as sorc/fsoul or more like wiz/cleric? Or something unique that could actually bring some kind special flavor to the class.
You could think about cds and casting speed as ground where you could make warlock unique imo

[Qhualor]

Blindness works great, if you like chasing down mobs as they run around willy nilly. I probably would do the same frantically swinging around. Some kind of CC or combat tactics to stop them reduces the annoyance level.

Slow is great. Any spell that makes mobs look like they are running through molasses is not only funny looking but a good way to avoid some incoming damage.

Unless Warlocks have a way to boost Entangle, it's a useless spell. I know for a ranger it's useless.

I know that Fire Shield and Knock are useless slots since you can scroll them. UMD doesn't appear to be a problem for Warlocks.

Binding Chain looks intriguing if it's anything like the one Sulu uses.

[Vargouille]

if Howl of Terror requires Wolf Form for Warlocks then it's going to be completely worthless!

Howl of Terror will not, of course, require being in Wolf form for Warlocks.

[Chi_Ryu]

Blinds duration as spell and ability to land it realiably makes archers in mark a 0 threat, and trust me those hit hard on ee

I'm with you on the benefits of Blindness (level 2 Necro), but... Does Power Word: Blind actually work nowadays? Last time I checked it didn't work at all on anything with more than 600HP, which means practically nothing.

Was that changed at some point?

[edrein]

Some still-early thoughts based on feedback (can't really promise anything, should probably wait until the work week starts and all other designers can chip in)

• We'll probably strongly consider not tying Warlock to the Primal Sphere of Epic Destinies.
• Metamagics will surely be a topic of some discussion. "Desirable feats" for Warlock is also a likely topic of discussion, more broadly. Adding choice and diversity is a major goal. At the same time we want to make sure "caster" Warlocks aren't just scrambling for any useful feat to find. (We do like that there are serious discussions for Wizards/Sorcs about whether or not Maximize and Empower are both entirely necessary, and some of those characters may be best off without them.)
• We of course still want to add new spells to the game, including particular for Warlock's release.
• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?
• Spell points are probably here to stay in some form, but we're aware that having some spell-point free abilities is important.
• Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

I guess you're just ignoring the fact that several players have shown interest in the fact that we want various types of viable melee warlocks, pure and multiclassed eh?

There's been a ton of votes for Eldritch Glaives, I know the unarmed crowd will want a form of Eldritch Claws, and I myself am in the group for Hideous Blow. Can you atleast address our desires for melee, instead of telling us there's a general support tree that you expect anyone wanting melee to play, but of course they're cross-class melees. Not pure.

(Sorry if I sound bitter at this point, but it seems like you've utterly ignored a ton of work by several players to provide options all around for warlocks.)

[Blackheartox]

I'm with you on the benefits of Blindness (level 2 Necro), but... Does Power Word: Blind actually work nowadays? Last time I checked it didn't work at all on anything with more than 600HP, which means practically nothing.

Was that changed at some point?

It gives blind but a very short duration since pwords /beside kill/ are based on hp mob has.

It has its uses, esp since i hope it gets autoadded to spbook and that you dont need to waste slot for it.
Thats how i got it, pact spells get auto inscribed in book

[FranOhmsford]

About feat slot on quicken, as i know any caster will want that feat, any caster build really truly wants that feat.

I'm sorry but the above is one of the most annoying to me player myths in DDO!

Quicken is a waste of Spell Points for most spells and only truly useful for the likes of Heal Mass {which is no longer a requirement anyway!}, Reconstruct and Disco Ball!

So Unless you regularly use one of these long casting time uber spells or absolutely require healing to be instantaneous Quicken is totally optional!

Honestly - Apart from WF/BF Arcanes who takes Quicken pre Lvl 15 anyway?

[Chi_Ryu]

Even worse - These spells are rendered utterly moot by the far more effective {mainly because of ease of use} blindness effects on gear!

Blindness effects from weapon procs only last for ~10s. Blindness (the spell) has infinite duration, and no further saves aside from the first one.

It is very good in Mark of Death at all levels on the Empowered Devotees, as blinded monsters can't use ranged attacks (so long as people don't kill the blinded archers, of course)

[FuryFlash]

So, I have noticed that there is no healing so far in the spell list or anywhere else. But, you have been saying that healing will be added to the enhancement trees. Well, I had an idea for Enlightened Spirit, which is the ability to change your Eldritch Blast into a scaled healing spell. You would be able to heal anyone around you, probably quite quickly, in return for being incapable of dealing damage. Now, this may not fit into Enlightened Spirit, it's just an idea I had that seems fun.

Anyways, glad to hear that spells are in the list of things to do, since that was pretty much my only complaint!

Looking forward to the enhancement trees being released.

[FuryFlash]

Honestly - Apart from WF/BF Arcanes who takes Quicken pre Lvl 15 anyway?

Well, I do. On pretty much any caster, although some earlier than others. So there!

[FranOhmsford]

I guess you're just ignoring the fact that several players have shown interest in the fact that we want various types of viable melee warlocks, pure and multiclassed eh?

There's been a ton of votes for Eldritch Glaives, I know the unarmed crowd will want a form of Eldritch Claws, and I myself am in the group for Hideous Blow. Can you atleast address our desires for melee, instead of telling us there's a general support tree that you expect anyone wanting melee to play, but of course they're cross-class melees. Not pure.

(Sorry if I sound bitter at this point, but it seems like you've utterly ignored a ton of work by several players to provide options all around for warlocks.)

They've already ignored the fact that some players don't even want Warlocks in the game at all!

So why the surprise?

And where are the Kalashtar Psionicists, Gnomes and Kobolds as PCs?
And where are the Goblins?

[Vargouille]

I guess you're just ignoring the fact that several players have shown interest in the fact that we want various types of viable melee warlocks, pure and multiclassed eh?

There's been a ton of votes for Eldritch Glaives, I know the unarmed crowd will want a form of Eldritch Claws, and I myself am in the group for Hideous Blow. Can you atleast address our desires for melee, instead of telling us there's a general support tree that you expect anyone wanting melee to play, but of course they're cross-class melees. Not pure.

(Sorry if I sound bitter at this point, but it seems like you've utterly ignored a ton of work by several players to provide options all around for warlocks.)

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Warlock melees were expected to be cross classed. Apologies for the confusion. Two of the trees will support melee Warlocks. Cross classing is not expected but is supported.

[FuryFlash]

They've already ignored the fact that some players don't even want Warlocks in the game at all!

Well, I wouldn't say ignored, personally. It's more like, they saw that some people on the forums don't like Warlocks, but they decided to go out and please the majority anyways. I understand your frustration, but they can't cater to everyone, so they have to do their best to make the largest amount of people happy.

[FranOhmsford]

Well, I do. On pretty much any caster, although some earlier than others. So there!

Why though?

What possible reason could you have for taking Quicken that early other than that you've been told it's a must have?

Quicken is a good Feat don't get me wrong but it's hardly the absolute necessity for every single caster toon that it's made out to be!

Heck I've stated on numerous occasions that it should be rolled into Combat Casting {or more the other way round actually} and even then I'd personally only take it once I hit Lvl 15 on a character who heavily utilised Recon or Disco Ball and at Lvl 18 on a Divine!

Oh sorry I take it much earlier on Artis as it helps Flame Turret massively!

[BananaHat]

I guess you're just ignoring the fact that several players have shown interest in the fact that we want various types of viable melee warlocks, pure and multiclassed eh?

There's been a ton of votes for Eldritch Glaives, I know the unarmed crowd will want a form of Eldritch Claws, and I myself am in the group for Hideous Blow. Can you atleast address our desires for melee, instead of telling us there's a general support tree that you expect anyone wanting melee to play, but of course they're cross-class melees. Not pure.

(Sorry if I sound bitter at this point, but it seems like you've utterly ignored a ton of work by several players to provide options all around for warlocks.)

I believe the compromise for using weapons is in the enlightened tree, where your blast effectively becomes an aura so you can use it while still swinging a weapon. If you want the glaive/claws, just stick with the single target base blast and only use it in melee range. Same effect.

As it is, the aura shape will probably be pretty powerful because it is free damage on top of some of the good weapon abilities like mortal fear.

[FranOhmsford]

Well, I wouldn't say ignored, personally. It's more like, they saw that some people on the forums don't like Warlocks, but they decided to go out and please the majority anyways. I understand your frustration, but they can't cater to everyone, so they have to do their best to make the largest amount of people happy.

What majority?

I've always seen the number of people after Warlocks as a very small minority! {And it's usually accompanied by requests for OP Player races like Aasimar, Tiefling and Dragonborn!}.

Especially when compared to those who want Gnomes!

[FuryFlash]

Why though?

What possible reason could you have for taking Quicken that early other than that you've been told it's a must have?

Quicken is a good Feat don't get me wrong but it's hardly the absolute necessity for every single caster toon that it's made out to be!

Heck I've stated on numerous occasions that it should be rolled into Combat Casting {or more the other way round actually} and even then I'd personally only take it once I hit Lvl 15 on a character who heavily utilised Recon or Disco Ball and at Lvl 18 on a Divine!

Oh sorry I take it much earlier on Artis as it helps Flame Turret massively!

Well, for me, the earliness that I take it depends on the character:

On a sorcerer for example, I would likely take the feat at level 15 if I'm WF/BF or level 18 if not.
As a caster druid, I would probably go level 9 or 12, mostly for the powerful SLAs (call lightning takes too long for me otherwise) and the healing.
On a cleric or favored soul, which I don't actually play, I would say about the same as druid, maybe 12 (depends on the amount of SLAs).
For a wizard, it completely depends on my spell list/focus. On an evocation archmage, probably 10 or 12. On a necromancer, 12 or 15.

I probably missed a couple builds, but the point is, I consider it essential. Having fast/no-fail SLAs, healing and some important slow casting spells is really important to me, and always improves the fun I have on a caster. Since I tend to jump around heads a lot, I only have a small window of time to cast that spell downwards on them, which requires quicken most of the time. What I do is jump, then almost halfway up, I cast, which then doesn't slow me down very much, if at all.

This probably isn't how you play a caster, but for me, this is an essential feat and definitely taken early on for nearly every spellcaster.

[Uska]

Well, I wouldn't say ignored, personally. It's more like, they saw that some people on the forums don't like Warlocks, but they decided to go out and please the majority anyways. I understand your frustration, but they can't cater to everyone, so they have to do their best to make the largest amount of people happy.

And where do you get the majority? On polls for new classes warlocks may have been high but they were never ever number one

[Blackheartox]

I'm sorry but the above is one of the most annoying to me player myths in DDO!

Quicken is a waste of Spell Points for most spells and only truly useful for the likes of Heal Mass {which is no longer a requirement anyway!}, Reconstruct and Disco Ball!

So Unless you regularly use one of these long casting time uber spells or absolutely require healing to be instantaneous Quicken is totally optional!

Honestly - Apart from WF/BF Arcanes who takes Quicken pre Lvl 15 anyway?

In epic elite, its a must feat.
I wont go thro all spellbooks and tell what spells its good used on since that would a a whole page long reply.
But that feat is a must pick for ee

[songswrath]

To me and maybe to most other players. Warlocks are warrior/casters. Now that said anyone every rolled a toon that was a hybrid melee/caster knows it works great or gee where my ottos stone ><.

Things to add or are missing from warlocks {everything i list here can be taken from other classes as it is already in the game} 1: fear aura > Aura of Fear: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength and Charisma. Rank 2: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength, Charisma, Dexterity and Wisdom. Rank 3: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to all ability scores. <tier 3Ravager >

point 2: endless spell casting i have mixed feelings about this i see the point of blance but that ship of balance left the dock long ago see >s.w.f. , holly sword and the new barbs lol . but i do like that it gives options with epic lvl spells tho mana pool seams too small maybe auto grant Mental Toughness feats as warlocks lvl say tier 1 at lvl 8 and tier 2 at lvl 15 higher in lvls to stay away from the low hanging fruit. also echos was talking about as being upgraded by other players i like this too again in later lvls or in a tree.

point 3: in rule set 3.5 and i believe others as well too war locks got feats much like , wizzy artties, monks, fighters get. not reg feats but fiend or pact based, this can help with being a hybrid class

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Warlock melees were expected to be cross classed. Apologies for the confusion. Two of the trees will support melee Warlocks. Cross classing is not expected but is supported.

most of us players play ddo cause of the cross class builds the fact we can make it the way we want and not cookie cutter is why we are here and not some other mmo