Warlocks!

[GeoffWatson]

Force damage?
Can you make it untyped?
There are some monsters that are immune to (or get healed by) Force. Do warlocks get any other damage option?

Geoff.

[Memnir]

I wish I could be excited about this, I really do. I just don't see the point.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that everyone who has over the years requested Warlock will finally get to play them - but for my money it's akin retreading a tire.

Yeah, I'll roll one when they come out - I've been wrong on these things before; and playing one will be the final proof. But for right now, I just cannot get excited beyond playing a Lovecraftian mage.

[Deathdefy]

Seems interesting!

Chain targeting style ranged attack will mean no repositioning for IPS.

I don't love the SP for spells thing, but c'est la vie - I can see how it makes sense for the purpose of interacting with other classes and EDs. The best bit is the blasts anyway.

[Uska]

BOOOOOOOO. WARLOCK IS NOT AN "ANY ALIGNMENT" CLASS.

Must be Evil or Chaotic. Period. NO WARLOCK/MONKS OR WARLOCK/PALADINS.

FIXITFIXITFIXITFIXIT.

yup +1

[alceste007]

^ This is an excellent idea Varg, it should be included in some way shape or form.

Sorc savants allow this for the same vital reason: Only having one element is far too restrictive.

Force plus sonic or light
Force plus fire or cold
Force plus acid or electric

Makes a lot of sense, just allow the player to toggle which one.

The idea of having the ability to toggle the damage type is a good one, I definitely hope the developers implement this. The above categories give a warlock a chance to be viable in a range of quests. Since I fall into the alignment gating is outdated mindset, I like the freedom to design the character that I want. I am looking forward to warlocks atm.

[NathanWallace]

Honestly I'd wager the viability of melee crosses is going to be pretty dependent on being able to get solid damage out of Eldritch Blast with a hypothetical dumped CHA. Is that how things will play out? Probably not, but the builds will still be considerably behind a pure caster in terms of DC. Just look at the DC gap between a melee favored soul or cleric and their caster versions, its usually 10-20, half a the die or more. A no save Eldritch Blast definetly leaves the door open to some creative uses of splashes and that AoE shape.

I can already see PDK Warlock Cha to damage happening here

[The_Human_Cypher]

Agreed.

Yogg-Sothoth Neblod Zin!

[The_Human_Cypher]

No alignment restriction seems weird

I agree. At the very least, Warlocks should not be Lawful Good. Allowing only Neutral alignments would probably be even better.

[Jetrule]

Some more gritty details about Warlocks!

Feat Progression

Level	Feat	Eldritch Blast	Fey	Fiend	Great Old One
1	Eldritch Blast Pact Choice	1d6 Force	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	PactSpell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
2	Deceive Item (UMD+5)	1d4 Pact bonus damage	Sonic Damage on EB	Fire damage on EB	Acid damage on EB
3		2d6 base damage
4		+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses (+1 Reflex Saves)	Fiendish Resilience (+1 Fort Saves)	Thought Shield (+1 Will Saves)
5		3d6 base damage	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
6		+1d4 Pact	Dark Delirium (Daze monster, % chance damage breaks)	Dark One's Luck (+2 to each Saving Throw)	Entropic Ward (+5 MRR, 25 Fortification)
7		4d6 base damage
8		+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
9		5d6	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
10		+1d4 Pact	Energy Resist (5)	Energy Resist (5)	Energy Resist (5)
11		6d6 base damage
12	Paragon's Aegis (+5 MRR)	+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
13	Deceive Item (UMD+5)
14	Paragon's Aegis	7d6 base damage +1d4 Pact	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
15			Misty Escape (Ethereal Abundant-Step)	Hurl Through Hell (Single Target EiN)	Create Thrall (Charm Monster variant)
16	Paragon's Aegis	+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
17		8d6 base damage	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
18	Paragon's Aegis	+1d4 Pact
19			Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
20	Paragon's Aegis	9d6 base damage +1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield

Oh give us something Juicy On level 20!

Titania pact- Mantle of the Farie-- Mass Improved Invisibility as shadow dancer.

Mephistopheles pact-- Hell Fire Blast. Basically Bolder toss but cha based and Fire/Bane damage 50/50

Cthulhu Pact-- Forbidden Name. A nice no save power word that causes mass Insanity.

[BMurph]

Some more gritty details about Warlocks!

Feat Progression

Level	Feat	Eldritch Blast	Fey	Fiend	Great Old One
1	Eldritch Blast Pact Choice	1d6 Force	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	PactSpell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
2	Deceive Item (UMD+5)	1d4 Pact bonus damage	Sonic Damage on EB	Fire damage on EB	Acid damage on EB
3		2d6 base damage
4		+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses (+1 Reflex Saves)	Fiendish Resilience (+1 Fort Saves)	Thought Shield (+1 Will Saves)
5		3d6 base damage	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
6		+1d4 Pact	Dark Delirium (Daze monster, % chance damage breaks)	Dark One's Luck (+2 to each Saving Throw)	Entropic Ward (+5 MRR, 25 Fortification)
7		4d6 base damage
8		+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
9		5d6	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
10		+1d4 Pact	Energy Resist (5)	Energy Resist (5)	Energy Resist (5)
11		6d6 base damage
12	Paragon's Aegis (+5 MRR)	+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
13	Deceive Item (UMD+5)
14	Paragon's Aegis	7d6 base damage +1d4 Pact	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
15			Misty Escape (Ethereal Abundant-Step)	Hurl Through Hell (Single Target EiN)	Create Thrall (Charm Monster variant)
16	Paragon's Aegis	+1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield
17		8d6 base damage	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
18	Paragon's Aegis	+1d4 Pact
19			Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook	Pact Spell added to Spellbook
20	Paragon's Aegis	9d6 base damage +1d4 Pact	Beguiling Defenses	Fiendish Resilience	Thought Shield

For having such a heavy focus on Eldritch blast (which I agree is the right step to take with Warlock) it seems that there's some missing pieces for it. I'm not sure about later editions of Warlock (ie from 4e or 5e) but as far as the 3.5e of warlock went, there was more utility with the Eldritch blast aside from just a pigeon holed damage style. For instance, you could do a large area atk to give a whole group of enemies 2 neg lvls, then after their saves have been weaken, stun them or confuse them all with the next atk. Then once you get to a large enemy/boss you could hit it with a double energy atk hitting it with any elements its weak to or perhaps further taking advantage of a certain saving throw its weak to by mixing in a little CC to help the team out. Obviously for DDO that last part doesn't do as much due to CC immunities red and purple names have, but the whole point here is how versatile the Eldritch blast is and should be for a good representation of it with DDO.

I was figuring that given the current systems of DDO, you could have feats every few levels that warlock would gain (much like many other class granted feats) that give you a different toggle for the Eldritch blast, either as an energy type or a shape type stance. The energy type stances would modify the damage properties of the Eldritch blast allowing you to mix in different elements, stat damage, neg lvls, or even cc. The shape type stances would then modifying the area of effect so you could either have it as a melee atk, a ranged atk, chain, cone, area explosion, aura, etc. However, right now it feels like the character will build a certain way to only have one energy type that is always on, and one or 2 shapes to go back and forth between. One of Eldritch blasts greatest strengths, versatility, is now limited to a single path with maybe a fork at the end.

So though I do appreciate where some of warlock is headed, I must say that it still feels like some vital pieces are missing. Maybe some of this will actually exist in some form another. As of now we don't even have full knowledge of what the trees will look like, just some highlights which can be very misleading. I don't know if the shapes will all be low hanging fruit from each tree so that at least shape versatility is still very viable, and perhaps there will be more energy type effects for the EB as well within the different trees. I'm merely putting in my 2 cents in now while it still hopefully has some sort of impact before it may too late when more information is revealed/set in stone.

[BananaHat]

Eldritch blast really needs to be untyped. They don't need to be completely hamstrung in certain rare situations without any other options. The items that affect force should affect untyped too.

As for the spell points and spells... While I don't particularly agree I see the 5th edition influence heavily here. Hopefully they'll get some version of Echoes of Power that let's them effectively have unlimited spells, have it go up to 30 sp or whatnot.

I'm hoping to see some of the iconic invocations show up in the enhancement trees.

[maddong]

There are more than the usual amount of bonuses to DC casting in certain Warlock trees, yes.



Right now we're thinking that the base damage (Force) can't be saved against. Pact damage is saved against the same type as the bonus that Pact gives, for half damage:
Fey: Reflexes
Fiend: Fortitude
Great Old One: Will

The problem with eldritch blast saves is the only place it will matter will be epic elite. Just make them all no save. Or give everyone the ability to toggle between the three saves thru enhancements.

[maddong]

You could give no save blast at level 20 just in time for epics...

[HastyPudding]

You could give no save blast at level 20 just in time for epics...

I think the devs said the force-based blast damage won't have a save, but the pact damage addition will.

[voodoogroves]

A bit sad to see the blast isn't weaponlike (so you can't sneak with it) but not surprising given the rest of the weaponlike abilities.

Rename the Great Old Ones to be something less specifically lovecrafty, and leave some room for non-creepy and too-many-squiggly-tentacles.

Too many spells base, move some to the pacts and enhancement trees. Specifically, I'd love to see Warlock base getting core spells, your pact getting some and others selected via your tree choices.

I'd like to see a dual-stance-ish thing for the blast damage, similar to the AA arrows and imbues. Your pact sets the core first one, but your enhancement trees give you options for adding secondary effects or changing damage type further.

Pact-wise, I think that should be feats similar to faith feats on the FVS tree. Fey adds enchant/illusion DC booster ... Fiend adds evocation / conjuration ... Old Ones add DC boost for trasmutation, necromancy and abjuration

Enhancement Trees

I like the Soul one having three areas - mental control of others, taking on undead characteristics yourself (not as full as pale master) and controlling / commanding / killing (finger, etc.). Not sold on the Soul Eater name, but I like the idea of these guys being puppetmasters of souls (control, kill, keep). Soulkeeper? Even better ... Spirit Binder ;-)
- Crushing Despair, etc. on one side of the tree ... if normal Warlocks get Charm, these guys should get Dominate (and Mind Fog)
- Fortification boosts, immunities, healing penalites and ultimately ability to heal w/ negative damage
- Ability to add debuffs TO the blast (like the penalties that go on the end of hypno / crushing despair)
- Waves, enfeeblement, etc.
... don't go to undead, because we've already got PMs

I like the tainted scholar (or Scholar of Forbidden Lore) as having wacky abilities, maybe even themed on vestiges / binders
- The Deep One - adds Water Breathing, Solid Fog, Ooze Puppet as spells; grants UA and crazy swim modifier while stance is active, fire absorption but a penalty to elec
- The Ever-Wanderer - add Dimension Door, Teleport, Greater Teleport as spells; grant a leap-of-the-heavens clickie and knockdown immunity while the stance is active (possibly FoM / uncanny dodge); can't wear heavy armor
- She-who-steals-the-light - adds invis and shadow walk as spells; stance gives Ghostly (scaling incorp w/ level) but light vulnerability; adds DR/good
- Vestige of the (something theify) - adds Find Traps spell; grants trapfinding while active and bonus to INT skills and reflex saves (drawback here is that it'll be hard enough to hit elite #s without serious work and gear)
- Forbidden Tonques - adds Power Words and Symbols spells to list; vulnerability to sonic damage
- The Lost - confusion, fear and a prismatic alteration for the blast; slippery mind while active, penalty to will saves; adds DR/byshek
... you get the drift, make it the utility tree

Enlightened Servant / Pact Thrall
- Ability to change the blast damage to (a) light (b) bane (partially at last, as flame strike) - fits both with Hellfire and holy stuff
- Some light and alignment spells (Holy Word-type, multiselector ... for light, maybe only Sunburst)
- Healing amp
- Like aura options; auras could be either permanent or like WC chants - works for party members, pets, etc.
- Banishment / dismissal (either as spells or as a blast-stance)

[Mirilan]

Hmmm as many others have said not sure on the any alignment part, seems too liberal. As far as anything else goes I'll reserve judgement until implementation testing, I accept that in some ways there has to be major differences between PnP and DDO.

[SirValentine]

We may examine the 9-16 second trigger in Epic Hard and Elite that can dispel charms. (I think it's 9-16 seconds, off the top of my head. Something like that. I looked it up last week. I know it's not just 2-3 seconds, which some posts seem to imply.)

2 seconds or 9 seconds, either way it's trivially short compared to, say, 150 seconds. So short it's not worth casting those kind of spells.

[SirValentine]

Is Eldritch Blast going to be subject to Arcane Spell Failure?

Like most damage spells, no.

I don't understand this answer at all. So far as I know, almost every single (arcane) damage spell is, in fact, subject to Arcane Spell Failure.

Most damage spells are not subject to Spell Resistance, but that's something totally different.

[Holymunchkin]

I don't understand this answer at all. So far as I know, almost every single (arcane) damage spell is, in fact, subject to Arcane Spell Failure.

Most damage spells are not subject to Spell Resistance, but that's something totally different.

Bard spells are not subject to arcane spell failure (as a bard!) when wearing light armor.

[XxJFGxX]

Are Warlocks going to have the ability to wild shape into something depending on the Pact they choose?