Warlocks!

[Uska]

Remember, please: Things can, may, and probably will change. We love being able to provide this level of detail prior to even debuting things on Lamannia, but with that comes the requirement that people not treat this as set-in-stone-better-not-change-it-or-I-will-accuse-you-of-lying-to-us-type information.

Drop spell points and unrestricted alignments

[ToastyFred]

Like most damage spells, no.



Since I edited this, replying to myself to draw attention (since my memory was jogged).

So it looks like the Pact to take is Great Old One as mobs, for the most part, are weakest with Will saves and Acid is second only to Sonic for damage (as far as "elemental" damages go) that isn't resistible.

Thanks. This helps my planning.

[Ailia]

So it looks like the Pact to take is Great Old One as Mobs, for the most part, are weakest with Will saves and Acid is second only to Sonic for damage (as far as "elemental" damages go) that isn't resistible.

Thanks. This helps my planning.

Something like Fey being only 1d3 but no save would shake things up a bit, especially with the other two having much more instakill focus.

[ToastyFred]

Something like Fey being only 1d3 but no save would shake things up a bit, especially with the other two having much more instakill focus.

That would be a better way to handle the Fey's Sonic damage portion/Reflex save situation.

[Uska]

The pacts themselves seem to have alignment restrictions.

Except for fey and the others they aren't sure it will work

[ToastyFred]

Question Varg:

How well will Eldritch Blast scale into Epic levels??

[Ailia]

Question Varg:

How well will Eldritch Blast scale into Epic levels??

Just given 9d6+10d4 base dice and being effected by spellpower and spell crits from what we know, plus aoe shapes it should hold up fine if the rate of fire is decent.

[Vargouille]

How well will Eldritch Blast scale into Epic levels??

This question is part of why we haven't nailed down what percentage of Spell Power will affect your Eldritch Blast damage. We may also add some Epic Feats that add Eldritch Blast dice or something along those lines.

[Blackheartox]

So you plan to make blasts, lets look at ranged ones currently as some kind "throw mechanic".
Using term throw for the purpose of my following question:
Do you plan to make alatricity and dshoot/strike to work on eldritch things?
Why sp bar?

Without debuffs how do you think they will scale into epic elite?
A sorc that uses pure reflex based spells without debuffs is rather useless.
A pm that uses pure necro spells will hit a wall on some mobs.
And since blasts can be fort/reflex based for specific pacts, what solution do you propose on avoiding the issue of runearm that arties have?
But really, why sp bar?

What past life will warlock grant?
Honestly thats the thing im interested in most after reading this proposal

And srsly, why sp bar?

[Jango-EX]

Why no alignment restrictions?

This would be the only departure from 3.5 rules, as far as alignment is concerned. Unless there is a very good reason for that other than "makes multiclassing easier", I think that we should stick to only chaotic, since we don't have evil ones here.

I don't really like the blue bar, but I understand the reasoning. I'd rather go with toggles for the invocations that alter the blast, kinda like the arcane archer toggles, and free slas with cooldowns for the other invocations, but yes, I think that the arcane spells will make the class easier to handle, in DDO terms.

[Jetrule]

I am liking the level 15 feind pact "Hurl through Hell"! Think I will have to make a warlock for this. Such fun Mentaly replacing varios monsters with real life people!

[dunklezhan]

The "rate of fire" for Eldritch Blast isn't tied to melee or ranged alacrity, but rather it's own statistic (which can be increased in some ways, such as Enhancements).

I'm sorry if I'm missed this (edit - I did miss this), but how exactly does it work? You toggle on an effect and then... what? Autoattack (Edit: yes. apparently so.)? Or click a hotbar icon like a spell (Edit - not from the sounds of it, other than the toggle)? Is there a cooldown (edit - this is still not clear)?

How is the time between blasts calculated? Does BaB have an effect at all? It affects attack speed for other stuff that's 'press attack button with a toggle on' at least a bit, right?

Edit: in general, I'm actually more interested than I've been since hearing about warlocks. I'm 'meh' about warlocks in general in PnP, but DDO is a videogame I'm open to different gameplay choices if they really are as different as they sound. This looks a little bit challenging because of hard spell choices (good thing), eldritch blast... well i don't know yet, depends on how I actually use it in practice (I really like the idea of flinging blast like someone else would shoot a bow, straight line no homing etc.). I think all may depend on the enhancement trees and the number crunching that will inevitably follow once spellpower/crit interaction become clearer.

[slarden]

Remember, please: Things can, may, and probably will change. We love being able to provide this level of detail prior to even debuting things on Lamannia, but with that comes the requirement that people not treat this as set-in-stone-better-not-change-it-or-I-will-accuse-you-of-lying-to-us-type information.

Wait a minute. Does that mean the toughness enhancement line posted on April 1 wasn't final? That is the only reason I retained VIP and it's noticeably absent from the current implementation.

I feel deceived already Dooooooooom.

[Jetrule]

Skills
[FONT=Arial]
Warlocks will have one path available, likely based on the Fiend Pact. We'll welcome your ideas on details of this build.

Epic Destinies
Upon reaching level 20 for the first time with a character, Warlocks unlock Primal destinies. This is only relevant to new characters, not existing characters who have already unlocked any Destinies.

As to the Warlocks being Primal destiny unlockers on first life, Doesn't Arcane make more sense and provide more benifits? Atleast for Infernal and H.P. Lovecraft pacts? Any way of splitting those up? Though I am sure one could imagine Shiradi as other than Fey.

The path should focus on Save D.C.s for infernal I imagine and of course empower and maximize if those can be meta'd onto eldritch blast.

As an aside I think Dark ones own luck for infernal and something similar for Cthulhu cultists should be awarded 2 times atleast.. Other wise all you get are Pali splashed Feysworn.

[Vargouille]

I'm sorry if I'm missed this, but how exactly does it work? You toggle on an effect and then... what? Autoattack? Or click a hotbar icon like a spell? Is there a cooldown?

If its based off your mouseclick attack (what would normally be a weapon attack), how is the time between blasts calculated? Does BaB have an effect at all? It affects attack speed for other stuff that's 'press attack button with a toggle on' at least a bit, right?

Edit: in general, I'm actually more interested than I've been since hearing about warlocks. I'm 'meh' about warlocks in general in PnP, but DDO is a videogame I'm open to different gameplay choices if they really are as different as they sound. This looks a little bit challenging because of hard spell choices (good thing), eldritch blast... well i don't know yet, depends on how I actually use it in practice (I really like the idea of flinging blast like someone else would shoot a bow, straight line no homing etc.). I think all may depend on the enhancement trees and the number crunching that will inevitably follow once spellpower/crit interaction become clearer.

Eldritch Blast is fired with your auto-attack (aka: left mouse button for most players). There's no real cooldown except for what we're building into the animation. In some ways playing Warlock is more like playing an archer, except instead of arrows or bolts you are hurling blasts. Blasts of death. Or Fire, Acid, or Sonic (which we're currently working on getting different visual looks). I've been testing and showing off a basic prototype Eldritch Blast today with other devs, and while we still have work to do, I really do like the "pew pew pew" feeling.

You still use auto-attack if you toggle on the "Shapes" in the Enhancement trees (except for the Aura, which is special). So Tainted Scholars can hold auto-attack and slam down Cone-shaped Eldritch Blasts, over and over. Soul Eaters fire off a projectile that after hitting an enemy, chains to other enemies. Enlightened Spirits just need to stand near enemies to passively hit them with Eldritch Blast... but they can keep attacking with melee and ranged weapons while doing so.

BAB tentatively won't factor into Eldritch Blast attack speed, unlike normal melee and ranged attacks.

As to the Warlocks being Primal destiny unlockers on first life, Doesn't Arcane make more sense and provide more benifits? Atleast for Infernal and H.P. Lovecraft pacts? Any way of splitting those up? Though I am sure one could imagine Shiradi as other than Fey.

This is a bit controversial, and we had some discussions on it. We feel you could realistically argue for Warlock fitting in Arcane, Primal, and maybe even Divine. Our version of Warlock is trying to go for a more primal feel, separated from Wizards and their books or Artificers and their crafts. It doesn't hurt that this also puts four classes into Primal, rather than five into Arcane.

At the end of the day we think this isn't going to be a make-or-break design decision, since you can still get all of the Destinies, but it's worth thinking about.

[Qhualor]

Perhaps I missed it, what is the Warlocks past life?

[Vargouille]

Wait a minute. Does that mean the toughness enhancement line posted on April 1 wasn't final? That is the only reason I retained VIP and it's noticeably absent from the current implementation.

I feel deceived already Dooooooooom.

Sadly, we found some technical issues with the Toughness tree, and have had to pull back on that to solve some of the more complicated problems. For instance, it turned out that every enhancement in the tree was the same. Not just named the same, and giving the same effect, but if you took the first Core ability you were actually taking all the Core abilities at once. And putting a single point in any other ability was purchasing every one of those abilities.

We've gotten our Best Artists to look at it, and we're pretty sure someone around here photoshopped something. I'm heading up investigations into this matter and I'll leave no stone unturned. I'm going to be really thorough, though, so finding this devious and probably very handsome suspect could take a long time. Years, decades, centuries, you never know.

Plus, that tree was kind of evil.

[nibel]

First reading, gut-feeling feedback:

The default Eldritch Blast goes in a straight line. It doesn't home in. Enemies that move may avoid it.

Is that "straight line" like ranged weapons (average missile speed, bend a little bit if the target moves slightly), Scorching Ray (almost instant, don't bend if the target moves at the same time you attack), or cold shot runearms (slow pace, very straight, don't bend at all)?

Auto-target still works for Eldritch Blast (like ranged weapons), or you have to keep reaiming if you are not shooting a static target (like cold shot runearms)?

You said there will be no save for the force damage. Will it require a hit roll? (I think no, like damage spells. Just to be sure) Can it miss because of Concealment or Incorporeal? Are they subject to Spell Resistance?

Will Eldritch Blast benefits from ranged weapon feats (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot) or Metamagic feats (Empower, Maximize, Quicken...)?

Deceive Item (UMD+5)

+5 UMD and UMD with full ranks with a 2 level splash? seems too strong. Artificers, who are supposed to be the masters of UMD only get a +2 bonus *for scrolls only* if you do a 2-level splash. More levels only extend this to other items.

Artificers get a similar bonus of this class feature on PnP (ability to chose 10 while using UMD). If we are being technical, even rogues can get this ability with Skill Mastery. There is no reason why Warlocks get a bonus this large (+10 at 13th level) in a skill that Turbine is trying so hard to keep "under control".

Create Thrall (Charm Monster variant)

Will this means that Charm spells will no longer expire in a few seconds against mobs with epic ward, or will it be a unique charm that don't expire earlier (like Wild Empathy)? Please, be the former.

Upon reaching level 20 for the first time with a character, Warlocks unlock Primal destinies.

In 3e, 4e, and 5e, Warlock is considered an arcane class. Why put it on Primal?

I mean, I understand that this would make Arcane be five classes while everything else being three. But this breaks a lot of lore.

EDIT: Answered literally a few posts above mine. So, if you don't want 5 arcane classes, Divine is the next spot I would put them. Because you are subject to a higher power and such, like clerics.

We've explored many options, and discussed at length with the Player's Council, and feel supporting spell points in Warlock is the best method for DDO. Using spell points instead of some custom resource allows them to multiclass far better with other classes, as well as make better use of Epic Destinies.

I am in the team that would prefer a warlock with zero SP, and their spells having somewhat longer cooldowns to balance it. I understand the reasoning behind giving SP to them, but I disagree with them. Having a "magic" class without a SP bar will be no different than having a fighter or barbarian in epics. Players from those two classes have their ways to get a SP bar to allow ED abilities, and so can do Warlocks.

I vote to make their spells full SLA with no cost at all.

This is the list of spells available to Warlocks as they level up. Reminder that you can gain at most two spells from each level!

Too many DC-based effects. With them being able to only reach spell level 6 (like bards), they will have to get a lot of extra DC somehow to be balanced against a sorcerer or wizard. While in PnP a 3 DC is a large drawback, it is doable. Not when the mobs have 50+ on their saves.

There are enough spells on each level that you can play with a DC-dump warlock. Just pointing out the problem so that we don't end with a second Spellsinger case.

[FestusHood]

Will metamagics such as maximize and empower apply to the eldritch blasts? The base damage die progression is the same as the incinerating wave ability in the Henshin Mystic core. That gets full benefit from spell power, but no metamagics. I can say that even as a pure level 20, with as much spellpower as i could get, the damage is pretty underwhelming.

[Rasputin]

I'd like to register my disappointment in the spell casting mechanic. I've certainly played my share of 3.5 Warlocks, and the thing that I found most interesting and iconic about the class was the ability to cast invocations all day long without spell point cost. Most invocations were designed to do two or more things at one time:

Devil's Sight which would allow you to see in normal and magical darkness
Entropic Warding that would deflect incoming ranged attacks and keep you from being tracked
Miasmic Cloud which not only granted concealment but also fatigued those who entered
Spiderwalk which allowed you to walk on walls and be immune to webs
Flee The Scene which gave you dimension door and leave an illusion behind to beguile enemies
Voracious Dispelling which not only dispelled effects but also damaged enemies
Chilling Tentacles that grappled and froze enemies for damage

And so on...

This was balanced against the fact that they got far fewer invocations than even a Wizard earned spells, as well as various roleplaying limitations imposed by your patron.

This was also a perfect opportunity to debut the Evard's Black Tentacles effect. An extremely similar effect is already in DDO from some boss fight which I do not directly recall at this time. You wouldn't even have to come up with a new graphic for it.

Lastly, in P&P you could learn feats which would specifically allow you to apply metamagic feats to the Eldritch Blast. In DDO where sorcs can deal out thousands of points of damage for virtually zero spell point cost, will this be considered?