Warlocks!

[HatsuharuZ]

Since time is obviously an issue, and making new spells takes up time, here are some suggestions for abilities that could potentially be added to the Warlock spell list, and keep them from becoming a very poor version of a wizard or sorcerer. For some of these, renaming them would be a good idea, but that's not really an issue.

Name: "Heatwave"
From?: Various "Salamander" enemies.
Reasoning: This aura increases vulnerability to fire. Fiend Pact Warlocks rejoice!

Name: "Earthgrab"
From?: Any earth elemental; dwarf racial tree.
Reasoning: It renders the enemy helpless and deals small amounts of bludgeoning damage. There were two similar spells in the 3.5 Warlock spell list, I believe, but they weren't as good.

Name: "Shadow Manipulation"
From?: Shadowdancer ED
Reasoning: This charms an enemy, then kills them when it's duration runs out. That's a very Warlock-ish thing to do to an enemy.

Name: "Shadow Form"
From?: Shadowdancer ED
Reasoning: It's very much like a PM undead toggle, and the strength damage on-hit will be useful.

Name: "Diversion"
From?: Level 18 Ninja Spy Core Ability
Reasoning: Well, Warlocks can't teleport out of danger in DDO, but this is the next best thing.

Name: "Mind Blast"
From?: Any Mindflayer enemy.
Reasoning: This would be most appropriate for a Great Old One Pact warlock, but really, it's an AOE Stun!

Name: "Elemental Weapons"
From?: Artificer spell list.
Reasoning: Warlocks are going to be in melee a lot, might as well give them something to enhance it a bit.

Name: "Kukan-Do"
From?: Shintao Monk enhancement tree.
Reasoning: Remember a spell called "Eyebite"? In 5th edition it gave you the option of stunning an enemy from a distance via your eyes. Might want to rename it, though.

[ToastyFred]

Why single me out? I am not the only one who doesn't like them or how they are done.

But you are the MOST vocal in your displeasure with Warlocks.

The most vocal are often the easiest targets.

[Monkey-Boy]

This class looks like garbage, just make the PLs okay.

[UurlockYgmeov]

This class looks like garbage, just make the PLs okay.

wow... respect your opinion but cannot respect your lack of explanation.

Why do you feel/think/believe what you said? with at least a sentence explaining why otherwise your statement bears no relevance nor weight to this thread or discussion.

[Drathsiddh]

I, am with other people confused on the matter of spell points. Considering that Warlocks hardly get any offensive spells, what is the reasoning behind it?
Warlocks are obviously going to hit a road block when they come to a force immune creature. When that happens what do they have? A mediocre elemental damage. To add versatility, I'd suggest you add a few extra offensive spells, this way, Warlocks have more dept.

One question is will we be able to add Cha to the damage of the Eldiritch Blast? Another would be to compare the DPS. Compared to the Rouge sneak attack table, the Eldiritch Blast seems to be leading. But what needs to be taken into consideration is the weapons. Rouges get the weapon dice+the elemental effect on the weapon+sneak attack. Then there is also the "freezing ice" effect and all that to be considered, with bleeding effects etc. Yes Spell Power will sort off make it balanced, but it has been hinted that Warlocks wont get the normal +100% increase that Sorcs get, which is understandable as then Warlocks will rocket past other spell-casters.

Survivability also has to be taken into consideration. Wizards have PM and Repair spells while Sorcs have the latter. Bards got cure wounds, Pally got Cure and Lay on Hands, Druids got all the regen stuff. barbs got the enhancements, Artis got Repair, Fighters got super high A/C Rouges, Rangers and Monks got Evasion with the latter two getting a bit of self healing. Clrs and FVS got the heals. What does the Warlock get? Nothing. Consider that.

Kindly also add new spells. Using the same list is getting boring and new spells will add a new sheen to the class.

(Lastly, this does seem like the combat mechanism of Neverwinter, but I got not probs)

[gabbatastic]

Thank you for the unprecedented preview into the Warlock class. It is much appreciated!

[fmalfeas]

Exactly I think the spell came out in one of the first AD&D modules

In AD&D, Earthquake was a 'Quest' spell. Spells that can end up in any spell slot you have, but you /only/ got them because your god decided to sub them for one of your requested spells, and gave you a job to do with it. In 3.0/3.5, it became a high level Cleric/Druid spell, as they had removed the 'mages get up to 9th, but divines only up to 7' thing from AD&D.

My old Cleric of Bane liked using it to breach city walls when he was expanding his territory and came to personally open up a tough nut that his troops were failing at.

[IronClan]

• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?

How often? I just re-skimmed thinking I missed something...

[Dandonk]

• I'm a bit surprised at how often players have suggested that death spells aren't appropriate. Should we remove death spells from the general Warlock spell list?

Well, personally I like the idea of the death spells for warlocks. It adds another dimension to the class, beyond straight DPS.

[fmalfeas]

I'm fine with locks having death spells, though I'm a bit leery of the DCs (except for PWK).

Now, Greater Dispelling being on the list at all...um...does this signal that the mechanics for dispels are being looked at? Because...generally speaking, loading a dispel is *never* the right choice unless you're on casual or sometimes normal. Not even for spell wards, because it takes entirely too much SP to take one down even with Disjunction.

Would also be really nice if the two unique warlock dispels could be coded (along with altering the dispel mechanics to account for current DDO...just uncapping them would work to start. The higher level ones have a larger base number on them, so it wouldn't be like greater and disjunction would be obsolete.) One damages the target for every spell dispelled, the other heals the warlock for every spell dispelled.

[kumagnificent]

Anyone else wondering why a class that has the ability ELDRITCH blast won't have the eldritch knight tree?

I propose:

Eldritch Knight (warlock edition)

Core Abilities involve shaping the Eldritch Blast into the EK cleave-ability. Bonuses and damage stack on top of weapon damage. Higher damage and +W on higher abilities. Capstone gives full character level-based damage to Eldritch blast (and EK equivalents).


The rest of the tree may be patterned after the sorc/wiz EK trees.



Also, some people here hates everything that is not their idea of a "perfect" class. I vote that we all pitch in and give them a free subscription to another MMO.

[Singular]

I think you almost have to do it in the enhancements because the feats are supposed to increase the cost of spells, which you can't do with the EB.

I asked several questions about melee and ranged feats and their affect on EB. Using those lines to improve EB would make the class unique. (But I admit, I don't know the "traditional" warlock, only what is posted here, so I'm just tossing out an idea.)
-- Instead of maximize, empower and heighten you take one of the lines of melee / ranged feats. SWF would speed up the animation, TWF would provide off hand EB procs etc. Improved crit and overwhelming crit could improve EB... Then you could have a good melee character that can hit the toggle and go back and forth with weapons and EB. ???

That would be a good way to go, for sure. You've covered scaling then.

[Jetrule]

I wonder how much of the negative posting is legit and how much is not reading the thread and how much is cloudy thinking and how much is the internet sickness of mean spirited trolling.. Really disheartening reading the thread even though there are many great and constructive posts. I can see why devs would want to disengage and form a players council.

[kumagnificent]

I wonder how much of the negative posting is legit and how much is not reading the thread and how much is cloudy thinking and how much is the internet sickness of mean spirited trolling.. Really disheartening reading the thread even though there are many great and constructive posts. I can see why devs would want to disengage and form a players council.

Well, those cloudy thinkers are easily singled out and we can ignore them. Or - there's my suggestion of pitching in and getting them free subscriptions to another MMO. I hear Hello Kitty Adventure Island is out.


On topic: Maybe death effects as they are may be modified into something more Warlock-y. Hurl Through Hell, for example, could work like targeting foes like FoD and putting them on a stasis animation (like Tea With The Queen, except with fire fire hell animation stuff), with damage/instant death (on failed save) upon "reentry" back into the material plane.

[EllisDee37]

Pact Spells

As mentioned in the feat table, Pacts provide spells as you level up. These are the spells that you can get from Pacts:

Spellbook Level	Fey	Fiend	Great Old One
1	"Obscuring Mist"	"Command"	"Entangle"
2	"Blindness"	"Rage"	"Knock"
3	"Slow"	"Fire Shield"	"Phantasmal Killer"
4	"Greater Dispel Magic"	"Binding Chain"	"Dominate Person"
5	"Otto's Sphere of Dancing"	"Power Word: Blind"	"Mass Suggestion"
6	"Otto's Irresistible Dance"	"Howl of Terror"	"Power Word: Kill"

Not knowing anything of Warlocks from PnP, and ignoring the actual Warlock spell list, this table seems a bit out of whack to me. I would substitute the following:

Greater Dispel Magic replaced with Hold Monster
The other two options at this level are Binding Chain and Dominate Person, both are nice single target crowd control. Hold Monster seems a better fit, and is analogous in power with Dominate Person.

Power Word: Blind replaced with Greater Command
The thinking here is that the other two options at the same level -- Sphere of Dancing and Mass Suggestion -- are both AoE crowd control. Greater Command is less powerful than otto's sphere of dancing so it wouldn't be particularly out of place. Also, wiki says Power Word: Blind has no effect on mobs with more than 600 hit points. If that's true, that should be changed regardless what happens with pacts. Seriously, 600 hit points?!

Power Word: Kill replaced with Slay Living
The cooldown on PW: Kill is prohibitive, and Slay Living has the same touch range as irresistable dance. I think slay living would fit better and be more fun.

[Uska]

In AD&D, Earthquake was a 'Quest' spell. Spells that can end up in any spell slot you have, but you /only/ got them because your god decided to sub them for one of your requested spells, and gave you a job to do with it. In 3.0/3.5, it became a high level Cleric/Druid spell, as they had removed the 'mages get up to 9th, but divines only up to 7' thing from AD&D.

My old Cleric of Bane liked using it to breach city walls when he was expanding his territory and came to personally open up a tough nut that his troops were failing at.

Woukd have to check my books but I don't recall quest spells from 1st edition AD&D but my books are 3000 miles away right now

[EllisDee37]

Pro tip for an easier way to keep track of Vargouille's posts in the thread, in a cleaner list than the dev tracker:

1) Go to the forum and find this thread.
2) Click on the post count displayed for this thread, where it says "Replies: ###" (Click the number.)

This opens a list of all participants in the thread, along with how many times they've posted. Along the left is the list of posters, along the right is the number of posts they made. Click on the number of posts for Vargouille and you'll get a list (of links) to all his posts here.

[Xerio]

The truth is you don't need to make anything new.. we already have almost everything you need. All you need to do is to rename, and remove spell point. Also for some spell you need to upgrade the damage/dc.

p.s. you can do this right, and we all come back and buying new pact and this class. or you can do it wrong, most of us will not come back. and you will just waste both yours and our time.

Least Invocations

Baleful Utterance - Sonic Blast rename
Beguiling Influence- grant 1/warlock level enchantment bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate
Breath of the Night- Obscuring Mist rename
Dark One's Own Luck- cha to save buff. last 1 hour
Darkness- Solid Fog rename
Devil's Sight- True seeing rename
Earthen Grasp- We already have this on Sorc Earth path..
Eldritch Glaive- Make this like flame weapon.. you summon a eldritch weapon that increase damage base on warlock cast level.
Eldritch Spear- Extend spell rename
Entropic Warding- Deflect arrow feat buff
Frightful Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to set enemy shaken
Leaps and Bounds- grant 1/warlock level enhancement bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble.
Miasmic Cloud- Mind fog rename
See the Unseen- see invisibility rename
Sickening Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to give enemy -1 peantly to all ability score.
Spiderwalk- Spider skin from druid spell rename
Summon Swarm- Enveloping Swarm from druid spell rename

Lesser Invocations

Beshadowed Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to blind enemy
Brimstone Blast- Yours Eldritch blast does fire damage and 20% to reduce enemy fortitude save by 1.
Charm- suggestion spell rename
Curse of Despair- Bestow Curse rename
Eldritch Chain- chain shape
Flee the Scene- Haste rename
Helltime Blast- Yours Eldritch blast does cold damage and 20% to reduce enemy dex by 1.
Hungry Darkness- Enveloping Swarm upgrade damage rename
Ignore the Pyre- resist energy rename
Sudden Swarm- we have similar effect in game already. from summon monser(Umbral Warg)
The Dead Walk- Create undead spell rename
Voidsense- Glitterdust upgrade rename
Voracious Dispelling- dispel magic rename
Walk Unseen- invisibility rename
Fell Flight- ddoor rename

Greater Invocations

Bewitching Blast- Enemy strike by your blast have 20% chance to become confused
Chilling Tentacles- recolor Entangle and upgrade dc/damage.
Devour Magic- greater dispel magic rename
Immunity to frightful presence- buff that grant dr 2/- every 4 warlock level.
Eldritch Cone- cone shape blast
Enervating Shadow- Invisibility, Mass rename
Noxious Blast- Stinking Cloud rename
Repelling Blast- your blast have 20% chance to knock down your enemy.
Vitriolic Blast- your blast deal acid damage
Wall of Perilous Flame- wall of fire rename

Dark Invocations
Dark Foresight- Displacement spell rename
Eldritch Doom- self center aoe blast
Impenetrable Barrier- we have many barrier type of effect.. maybe give 4 prr/mrr every two warlock level while remaining in the barrier
Path of Shadow- Shadow walk + Vigor self only rename
Utterdark Blast- enemy struck by your blast have 5% chance to recieve 2 negative level.
Word of Changing - Tenser's transformation rename

not sure about all the renames and spells but it's a solid start

Any chance Invocations could be a CLASS FEAT chosen at set levels?
Lv 1 you pick a least ect ect. (not exactly sure what the level spread would be here) maybe something like the ranger's favored enemy or the divine faith feat lines?

seems like a rather clumsy way to go about it but never hurts to give a new twist of thought into the conversation.

[Seikojin]

At this point, I'd say a strong majority of DDO players are in favor of a new class. In my case, I'm in favor of something new and, quite frankly, it didn't really matter what class it was.

Would I have preferred something else besides the Warlock? Maybe a Psionic class of some sort but honestly, the Warlock is probably just as good because it is new.

To me, the fact the new class is NEW, overrides WHAT it is.

Really this. People want new and fresh. What offers more newness than a new class? Content is defeated in a hour, classes take months of work to figure out what you can do with them across the board.

[PsychoBlonde]

Some still-early thoughts based on feedback (can't really promise anything, should probably wait until the work week starts and all other designers can chip in)

• Details of alignment restrictions are something we may still discuss. If you have an opinion on this that you haven't expressed yet, do please chime in.

I know alignment isn't really that big of a Thing in the game, but if you're not going to restrict Warlock to its proper PnP alignment limit then why do Druid, Barbarian, Bard, Paladin, and Monk all have THEIR "proper" alignment restrictions?

Plus sorcerer has kind of been getting it in the shorts lately. Leaving it as the ONLY cha-based class that you can splash with pally or monk sounds good to me.