Warlocks!

[ToastyFred]

If that's the case, why are so many people going on about the lack of alignment restrictions?

Because they're not reading what Varg wrote carefully enough?

I, however, did read what Varg wrote a bit more carefully:

The pacts themselves seem to have alignment restrictions.

[decease]

Dang! Why didn't someone tell me making spells was this easy? Why did we devs spend weeks making sure Earthquake worked right, for both players and monsters? Should have just copied the text and BAM, done!

The truth is you don't need to make anything new.. we already have almost everything you need. All you need to do is to rename, and remove spell point. Also for some spell you need to upgrade the damage/dc.

p.s. you can do this right, and we all come back and buying new pact and this class. or you can do it wrong, most of us will not come back. and you will just waste both yours and our time.

Least Invocations

Baleful Utterance - Sonic Blast rename
Beguiling Influence- grant 1/warlock level enchantment bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate
Breath of the Night- Obscuring Mist rename
Dark One's Own Luck- cha to save buff. last 1 hour
Darkness- Solid Fog rename
Devil's Sight- True seeing rename
Earthen Grasp- We already have this on Sorc Earth path..
Eldritch Glaive- Make this like flame weapon.. you summon a eldritch weapon that increase damage base on warlock cast level.
Eldritch Spear- Extend spell rename
Entropic Warding- Deflect arrow feat buff
Frightful Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to set enemy shaken
Leaps and Bounds- grant 1/warlock level enhancement bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble.
Miasmic Cloud- Mind fog rename
See the Unseen- see invisibility rename
Sickening Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to give enemy -1 peantly to all ability score.
Spiderwalk- Spider skin from druid spell rename
Summon Swarm- Enveloping Swarm from druid spell rename

Lesser Invocations

Beshadowed Blast- your Eldritch blast have 20% chance to blind enemy
Brimstone Blast- Yours Eldritch blast does fire damage and 20% to reduce enemy fortitude save by 1.
Charm- suggestion spell rename
Curse of Despair- Bestow Curse rename
Eldritch Chain- chain shape
Flee the Scene- Haste rename
Helltime Blast- Yours Eldritch blast does cold damage and 20% to reduce enemy dex by 1.
Hungry Darkness- Enveloping Swarm upgrade damage rename
Ignore the Pyre- resist energy rename
Sudden Swarm- we have similar effect in game already. from summon monser(Umbral Warg)
The Dead Walk- Create undead spell rename
Voidsense- Glitterdust upgrade rename
Voracious Dispelling- dispel magic rename
Walk Unseen- invisibility rename
Fell Flight- ddoor rename

Greater Invocations

Bewitching Blast- Enemy strike by your blast have 20% chance to become confused
Chilling Tentacles- recolor Entangle and upgrade dc/damage.
Devour Magic- greater dispel magic rename
Immunity to frightful presence- buff that grant dr 2/- every 4 warlock level.
Eldritch Cone- cone shape blast
Enervating Shadow- Invisibility, Mass rename
Noxious Blast- Stinking Cloud rename
Repelling Blast- your blast have 20% chance to knock down your enemy.
Vitriolic Blast- your blast deal acid damage
Wall of Perilous Flame- wall of fire rename

Dark Invocations
Dark Foresight- Displacement spell rename
Eldritch Doom- self center aoe blast
Impenetrable Barrier- we have many barrier type of effect.. maybe give 4 prr/mrr every two warlock level while remaining in the barrier
Path of Shadow- Shadow walk + Vigor self only rename
Utterdark Blast- enemy struck by your blast have 5% chance to recieve 2 negative level.
Word of Changing - Tenser's transformation rename




edit: All shape should deal same amount of damage as normal single target blast. Because you do have to sacrifice a known invocation for the shape.

[Jetrule]

Warlock healing.. I suggest the following.

Give Fey pact a Vigor SLA some where around tier 3 or 4 in their tree

In the Infernal pact tree Provide a vampirism effect to eldrtich blast. Maybe Two points per core or 5 at third core and 10 at 5th/lvl 18 core. With a +5 bonus when making a kill. all scaled to 100% negative spell power.

In the great old ones tree offer wand and scroll mastery.

These characters are going to be rogue squishy with increased mmr almost but not quite making up for lack of evasion and not much making up for lack of uncanny dodge.

[Lonnbeimnech]

how about

Fiend Strength: Each time you land a hit there is a 12% chance you heal positive damage equal to your Warlock level. Each time you kill an opponent you are healed for 20 hit points. This healing scales with 100% Spell Power.

[voodoogroves]

I encourage anyone suggesting that Warlocks not be able to use any metamagics think about what that means for the larger class design. My sorcerer wouldn't know what to do with all his feat slots if metamagics were not an option (and saving throws didn't matter!) We may also make some more general, selectable feats for customizing Warlock (epic feats are more likely than heroic ones), but what feats are Warlocks expected to take, if not some metamagics? Similarly, this is one of the reasons we are likely to make Eldritch Blast get boosted by Evocation related feats - it lets you build your Warlock differently from other Warlocks, choosing to focus on that aspect.

From a game design & build variety stance, it's unfortunate to see suggestions for no metamagics or no saving throws at all on Eldritch Blast. Yes, we can see how all Warlocks might be more powerful or simpler without having those drawbacks. Every Warlock could deal full maximum damage all the time at every level without any build decisions or requirements to reach that maximum power. But that's not what DDO is about! If choosing a Fey patron means you worry more about your saving throws than Fiendish Warlock, who worry more about piercing damage resistance than Great Old Ones, who worry more about dealing with bosses because charm effects don't work on them... that's interesting and good gameplay before you even step into the game. That encourages variety in class builds and character designs. It's good for DDO if players argue about what Pact is best and worrying about the weakness of each, similarly for enhancement trees and similarly for Warlock vs. other classes.

If players aren't worrying, something has gone terribly wrong.
/readyforthequoting

Want to up the game for other feats? Why not add some stuff to existing feats ... esp ones that don't get a lot of love currently


Resilience ... give the scholar tree an option where this doesn't alter their cooldowns
Mobile Spellcasting / Combat Casting - think of something to do with this that boosts rays or otherwise
Negotiator / etc. ... depending on the pact or path, maybe give warlocks who have this feat an additional bonus (ie, double the bonus to the skill if Pact X or Path Y or aspect Z stance is active
Diehard ... generally a poor feat, give it a bonus somehow that is useful to Soul things ... bonus points if you make it compelling for Pale Masters ... maybe it increases negative healing amp if you're undead ish ... or if not, gives you additional resistance (like some items do already)

Anything we can do for Hamstring, Sap and Slicing Blow may be better for other classes.


Also, don't give them Magical Training.

Precision - in addition to normal existing uses, grants an ability to ignore X amount of existing resistance or immunity an enemy may have. Bam, sorcs and warlocks may want this.



Also, because repetition is the key to good advertising, I also want a flame-blade-like invocation called "Eldritch Glaive" that creates a Rahl's-Might-ish weapon for a warlock to use on one of the paths. Bonus points if you do Eldritch Claws as well (dual wield).

[Silverleafeon]

Our current thoughts include some healing for Enlightened Spirit and some forms of temporary hitpoints in other trees. We'll have to see how this plays out in practice.

Ok, that satisfies me concerning self healing.

Probably. (magical training included)

Please do.

If you want to switch from Cone to Single Target, that shouldn't be onerous.

Nods happily variety and tactics are nice to have.

Our current thinking is that Eldritch Blast will be Evocation and gain appropriate boosts for that, and otherwise act like an Evocation Spell. (We're still looking into tech for spell levels.)

Sounds great.
If needed classify it as a level 6ish spell if all else fails.

An active ability that dazes an enemy.

Nods happily.

These are added to the spells you know. Tentatively, any level 20 Warlock will have direct castable access to 3 spells per spell level - per level, 2 would be chosen, and another would come from the Pact.

Nods happily again.

We're probably least happy with this choice for pact spells, and we're open to ideas for other options for a level 2 Fiend spell. It's a difficult choice, because we'd like to not take "staples" out like Blur, for instance. (That also means that this spot is a place we might be more likely to create a custom spell to fill a hole, but exploring many options is best.)

Hage (please haste and rage me) is often called for particularly in heroics.

This is indeed cast by some monsters already in DDO.

Good show grabbing up existing stuff.

We're currently not expecting to make major changes throughout DDO relating to alignments, though that could be another discussion. If there's interesting ideas for class or alignment specific items, we're open to ideas.

How about an Evil Sentient Weapon that take control of our toon and wanders around looting and pillaging while we sleep?
Hopefully earning some XP and Plat in the process

There's still room for mana-less re-usable abilities. This probably includes the activated Pact feats (and of course the passive ones!), as well as abilities in the Enhancement trees (including things like Eldritch Blast Shapes and Eldritch Essences).

Nods Solemnly and looking forward to seeing them.

I encourage anyone suggesting that Warlocks not be able to use any metamagics think about what that means for the larger class design. My sorcerer wouldn't know what to do with all his feat slots if metamagics were not an option (and saving throws didn't matter!) We may also make some more general, selectable feats for customizing Warlock (epic feats are more likely than heroic ones), but what feats are Warlocks expected to take, if not some metamagics? Similarly, this is one of the reasons we are likely to make Eldritch Blast get boosted by Evocation related feats - it lets you build your Warlock differently from other Warlocks, choosing to focus on that aspect.

I agree with you on this point.
Empower + Maximize for the win!

If EB is not a ray, enlarge would be interesting too. It will serve well on Otto's Irresistable Dance.

Quicken for Disco Ball, etc...

Spell Pen feats to break spell pen if you don't have the past lives.

From a game design & build variety stance, it's unfortunate to see suggestions for no metamagics or no saving throws at all on Eldritch Blast. Yes, we can see how all Warlocks might be more powerful or simpler without having those drawbacks. Every Warlock could deal full maximum damage all the time at every level without any build decisions or requirements to reach that maximum power. But that's not what DDO is about! If choosing a Fey patron means you worry more about your saving throws than Fiendish Warlock, who worry more about piercing damage resistance than Great Old Ones, who worry more about dealing with bosses because charm effects don't work on them... that's interesting and good gameplay before you even step into the game. That encourages variety in class builds and character designs. It's good for DDO if players argue about what Pact is best and worrying about the weakness of each, similarly for enhancement trees and similarly for Warlock vs. other classes.

Point well made.
I stand corrected.

Please realize Fey fighting Evasion toons is a disadvantage and make sure they have nice features to compensate.

Similarly, give Fiends a blaze of glory at high levels.

Thanks for the Force to Bane option.

If players aren't worrying, something has gone terribly wrong.

/readyforthequoting

LoL

[UurlockYgmeov]

...
We're probably least happy with this choice for pact spells, and we're open to ideas for other options for a level 2 Fiend spell. It's a difficult choice, because we'd like to not take "staples" out like Blur, for instance. (That also means that this spot is a place we might be more likely to create a custom spell to fill a hole, but exploring many options is best.)

....

/readyforthequoting

You are doing awesome! thank you for not chilling with a beer with friends and fam this saturday - and instead grilling'n'chilling with all us other DDO maniacs!!

why not something like this:

Fiendish Transformation (spell)

Fiendish Transformation (spell) effects

Name:	Fiendish Transformation
School:	Enchantment (Compulsion) (Mind-affecting)
Level:	Warlock 2
Spell Point Cost:	15 (Warlock)
Components:	Verbal, Somatic Material
Metamagic:	Enlarge, Extend, Quicken
Range:	Standard AOE
Target:	Friend, Self
Duration:	1 Minute +6 seconds per caster level (no maximum)
Saving Throw:	None
Spell Resistance:	No
Cooldown:	2 seconds (Warlock)

Description: Each affected creature in the area of effect gains a Profane PRR +5*, Profane MRR +5* , Profane Strength +1, Profane +1 Charisma, -1 Profane Constitution, -1 Will Save, Profane Evocation Caster Level Bonus +1, Conjuration Caster Level Bonus +1 (+1 (*+5) for every 4 levels of the caster). This is a standard aoe spell. Flavor Text: Temporary show the world your inner turmoil by gaining traits of your Fiendish pact. But unfortunately you will not gain: four arms, gleaming upper bodies similar to an insect; legs that look similar to chickens legs, only covered with scales, and missing an overly long middle toe; and your head will not look like a cross between human and insect, with large mandibles encasing a horrific mouth, filled with moving teeth; finally you will most certainly NOT grow A long barbed tail to complete your fiendish appearance. Your Pact is so strong that it affects those around you and for all those of good alignment inflicts 1 negative level (temporary) per 5 levels of the caster.

So at caster level 4 - would be +5/+1
at caster level 5-9 would be +10/+2
at caster level 10-14 would be +15/+3
at caster level 15-19 would be +20/+4
at caster level 20-24 would be +25/+5
at caster level 25-29 would be +30/+6
at caster level 30+ would be +35/+7

I debated about making this an AOE - but could make some of it caster specific and the rest AOE.

[ToastyFred]

I encourage anyone suggesting that Warlocks not be able to use any metamagics think about what that means for the larger class design. My sorcerer wouldn't know what to do with all his feat slots if metamagics were not an option (and saving throws didn't matter!) We may also make some more general, selectable feats for customizing Warlock (epic feats are more likely than heroic ones), but what feats are Warlocks expected to take, if not some metamagics? Similarly, this is one of the reasons we are likely to make Eldritch Blast get boosted by Evocation related feats - it lets you build your Warlock differently from other Warlocks, choosing to focus on that aspect.

From a game design & build variety stance, it's unfortunate to see suggestions for no metamagics or no saving throws at all on Eldritch Blast. Yes, we can see how all Warlocks might be more powerful or simpler without having those drawbacks. Every Warlock could deal full maximum damage all the time at every level without any build decisions or requirements to reach that maximum power. But that's not what DDO is about! If choosing a Fey patron means you worry more about your saving throws than Fiendish Warlock, who worry more about piercing damage resistance than Great Old Ones, who worry more about dealing with bosses because charm effects don't work on them... that's interesting and good gameplay before you even step into the game. That encourages variety in class builds and character designs. It's good for DDO if players argue about what Pact is best and worrying about the weakness of each, similarly for enhancement trees and similarly for Warlock vs. other classes.

If players aren't worrying, something has gone terribly wrong.
/readyforthequoting

I'd like to say I am all for allowing the use of certain metamagic feats with Eldritch Blast.

As presented above, Eldritch Blast would be much weaker than it's supposed to be without the use of Metamagics. I realize additional dice of damage could be added by Enhancements to make it better but, realistically, you might be able to double the number of base damage to 18d6. You wouldn't want to add extra element damage via Enhancement because you might wind up with a Fey pact Warlock doing Sonic damage (what his pact adds) and say Fire damage (which a Fiend pact would add) and that make little sense to me. So, 18d6 + 10d4 isn't really a whole heck of a lot of damage especially when considering there are Great Crossbow users who do 400-500 first number points of damage per shot. Allowing folks to Empower and Maximize their Eldritch Blasts will certainly help Warlocks compete dps-wise.

At a minimum, I'd like to see Empower and Maximize affect Eldritch Blast. Enlarge would also be nice to increase EB's range and Heighten could be useful if it would raise EB's spell level to 9th level (assuming it won't be treated that way right out of the gate). I could also see Quicken being useful if you can speed up the casting animations like you did with Sorcerer. Extend would probably be useless.

Regarding the Saving Throw argument, it's a tough call. Mobs' saves, especially in higher-level epic content are, for the most part, ridiculously high. This makes the element portion of an EB somewhat irrelevant which means EB won't scale as well into Epic content as I am hoping. If you decided to base the mobs' saves off of WIS for all three (sonic, fire, and acid) elements, this would be more helpful to Warlocks as Will saves tend to be the lowest for most mobs.

You could just TRY not allowing saves for EB at all on Lamannia for awhile, check your numbers, comments/complaints, and other metrics to see whether no saves really is too powerful. If it turns out it is, you can then institute saves of some kind for the next Lamannia build.

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking. Take it as you will.

[fmalfeas]

We're probably least happy with this choice for pact spells, and we're open to ideas for other options for a level 2 Fiend spell. It's a difficult choice, because we'd like to not take "staples" out like Blur, for instance. (That also means that this spot is a place we might be more likely to create a custom spell to fill a hole, but exploring many options is best.)

Options that make sense - Bestow Curse, Displacement, Stinking Cloud (Brimstone reeks, sulfur reeks, it very much fits), Flaming Sphere (it's worthless as a damage source, but as a bizarre form of distraction, it does fairly well), or even Lesser Restoration...could rename it to Hellish Restoration if you felt the need, but fiends are not the easiest things to afflict, and tend to shake things off quickly, so it's a fitting 'granted power' from the bargain. Or another mob-power...Cursed Wounds. Not always useful, but there are some fights where the ability to shut down heals would be nice.

Also...in the Old Ones stuff, since Eberron's Old Ones are from Xoriat...can we get Bees somewhere? BEEEEEEES! We can be Xyzzy's new puppies!

Side notes - RE: Spell Level on Eldritch Blast - please, please just set it at 9 or 10. But absolutely not 4 or under, ever. We don't need liches being 100% immune to it. Also, don't copypasta things onto it that would cause immunity to blind to negate the whole blast, or immunity to slow, please. Feel free to copypasta huge parts of the code for those, yeah, but we already have things like Sunbeam not working on mobs it should because they're specifically immune to Blind, and there's apparently some copypasta in there.

RE: Eldritch Blast Damage Type - Please, make it base Untyped. Untyped doesn't heal anything, nor is anything critically weak to it. Make Force an essence you can get from enhancements, and turn on if you're fighting wisps or something.

Remember, Crateos is completely immune to both Force and Light, and that's a miniboss in a 5th level quest. That's pretty early to be having almost all of your offensive abilities blocked (and if the change to untyped in enhancements is too high, that means you have no recourse but to weapon him on a class that's not naturally suited to facetanking.)

[ilhares]

Remember, please: Things can, may, and probably will change. We love being able to provide this level of detail prior to even debuting things on Lamannia, but with that comes the requirement that people not treat this as set-in-stone-better-not-change-it-or-I-will-accuse-you-of-lying-to-us-type information.

The Warlock has been my 2nd favorite class in the entirety of D&D history - and I don't really even like stock D&D for some reason, so seeing this makes me a very happy camper. I just hope you guys managed to implement the blast shapes and such to potentially be charged through the melee weapon as in tabletop. I'm wanted to revisit the He-Man build (warlock/barbarian).

So help me, if you ever implement the Soulknife, I'll dedicate to you my first born.

[Vargouille]

You could just TRY not allowing saves for EB at all on Lamannia for awhile, check your numbers, comments/complaints, and other metrics to see whether no saves really is too powerful. If it turns out it is, you can then institute saves of some kind for the next Lamannia build.

It's something we could try, and something like that will probably happen at some point in some part of Warlock without us doing it intentionally.

This course of events is 100% guaranteed to produce rage in about 27.4% of the player base, though, while trying it WITH saves and then removing the saves, if that's bad, is the kind of thing that produces -18.2% rage in 31.2% of the playerbase.

Options that make sense - Bestow Curse, Displacement, Stinking Cloud (Brimstone reeks, sulfur reeks, it very much fits), Flaming Sphere (it's worthless as a damage source, but as a bizarre form of distraction, it does fairly well), or even Lesser Restoration...could rename it to Hellish Restoration if you felt the need, but fiends are not the easiest things to afflict, and tend to shake things off quickly, so it's a fitting 'granted power' from the bargain. Or another mob-power...Cursed Wounds. Not always useful, but there are some fights where the ability to shut down heals would be nice.

Also...in the Old Ones stuff, since Eberron's Old Ones are from Xoriat...can we get Bees somewhere? BEEEEEEES! We can be Xyzzy's new puppies!

Displacement for a level 2 spell slot seems a bit low. Spells here are also not in the main spell list, so that's a consideration.

[Jetrule]

We're probably least happy with this choice for pact spells, and we're open to ideas for other options for a level 2 Fiend spell. It's a difficult choice, because we'd like to not take "staples" out like Blur, for instance. (That also means that this spot is a place we might be more likely to create a custom spell to fill a hole, but exploring many options is best.)

/readyforthequoting

Also as a self heal possibility "Vampiric touch" a iconic D&D spell not existing in DDO. Going from memory it is a level 3 arcane necromancy school spell. It dose d6 negative damage per 2 levels of caster max 6d6 at lvl11 no save but requires a successful to hit roll and heals the caster for the same amount as damage done.

[Augon]

Uh, if you set up a scenario like Running with the Devils and then punished the players for playing it, that would make you a bad DM. So your point doesn't really stand.
No, it doesn't.

You never DMed have you?

It would be very easy to setup a scenario in a PnP game that was similar to Running and it would not be wrong in any way to expect a Paladin to come up with a way around the problem of being attacked by good aligned NPCs. The linear progression that is necessary in a computer game was non-existent in the D&D games I played.

If you want to make alignment an integral part of your game but do not give your players any alignment based challenges, then you are a bad DM. And probably a boring one at that.

[voodoogroves]

This course of events is 100% guaranteed to produce rage in about 27.4% of the player base, though, while trying it WITH saves and then removing the saves, if that's bad, is the kind of thing that produces -18.2% rage in 31.2% of the playerbase.

Indeed; you're doing a great job even if I don't like all of it - keep it up.

Have I mentioned that I think you should add a flame-blade-like invocation to one of the pacts/trees that makes a Rahl's-might like weapon called Eldritch Glaive?

[XxJFGxX]

You are doing awesome! thank you for not chilling with a beer with friends and fam this saturday - and instead grilling'n'chilling with all us other DDO maniacs!!

why not something like this:

Fiendish Transformation (spell)

Fiendish Transformation (spell) effects

Name:	Fiendish Transformation
School:	Enchantment (Compulsion) (Mind-affecting)
Level:	Warlock 2
Spell Point Cost:	15 (Warlock)
Components:	Verbal, Somatic Material
Metamagic:	Enlarge, Extend, Quicken
Range:	Standard AOE
Target:	Friend, Self
Duration:	1 Minute +6 seconds per caster level (no maximum)
Saving Throw:	None
Spell Resistance:	No
Cooldown:	2 seconds (Warlock)

Description: Each affected creature in the area of effect gains a Profane PRR +5*, Profane MRR +5* , Profane Strength +1, Profane +1 Charisma, -1 Profane Constitution, -1 Will Save, Profane Evocation Caster Level Bonus +1, Conjuration Caster Level Bonus +1 (+1 (*+5) for every 4 levels of the caster). This is a standard aoe spell. Flavor Text: Temporary show the world your inner turmoil by gaining traits of your Fiendish pact. But unfortunately you will not gain: four arms, gleaming upper bodies similar to an insect; legs that look similar to chickens legs, only covered with scales, and missing an overly long middle toe; and your head will not look like a cross between human and insect, with large mandibles encasing a horrific mouth, filled with moving teeth; finally you will most certainly NOT grow A long barbed tail to complete your fiendish appearance. Your Pact is so strong that it affects those around you and for all those of good alignment inflicts 1 negative level (temporary) per 5 levels of the caster.

So at caster level 4 - would be +5/+1
at caster level 5-9 would be +10/+2
at caster level 10-14 would be +15/+3
at caster level 15-19 would be +20/+4
at caster level 20-24 would be +25/+5
at caster level 25-29 would be +30/+6
at caster level 30+ would be +35/+7

I debated about making this an AOE - but could make some of it caster specific and the rest AOE.[/FONT][/COLOR]

+1

[ToastyFred]

It's something we could try, and something like that will probably happen at some point in some part of Warlock without us doing it intentionally.

This course of events is 100% guaranteed to produce rage in about 27.4% of the player base, though, while trying it WITH saves and then removing the saves, if that's bad, is the kind of thing that produces -18.2% rage in 31.2% of the playerbase.

But seriously, point taken. Do it that way then. Of course, if you do it my way and it turns out EB is "under-performing" (which I suspect will be the case) after the saves are added in the second Lamannia build, you look like a hero when you remove the saves for the Live build.

[Iriale]

About self healing-- create the vampiric touch spell. Give it too to the sorc/wizzie lists. I am tired of all wizzies undead or warforged, all sorcs warforged. We have missed this spell too much time, anyways.

Well… I don't like the warlock spell list. You are creating a pale master type toon, without the shrouds. Seriously… the warlock should be different. Restrict the alignments to the pacts seems right. Spell points ... well, I think it does not correspond to the essence of the class, but ok. I understand why it has done so. But... the spell list! What unoriginal! It will be like playing a pale master! Neither warlocks nor wizards deserve such overlap.

And no, the warlock not belong to the primal sphere. I do not care about how many classes have every sphere; there is nothing primal on warlock! What nature connection has it? And the spells you have chosen are all arcane. Respect the lore, please.

At present, this class does not add anything to the game. Only overlaps with existing classes, devaluing them.

[Deathdefy]

Xoham and a few other posters have convinced me that the 'warlocks cast spells and don't have infinite invocations' idea is abandonable.

I think the barrier, to my mind at least, is that being able to cast infinite Wail of the Banshee, Finger of Deaths, Circle of Deaths, or Mass Hold Monsters, would be hugely OP.

Delete those spells - and only those spells - from the spell list.

Raise the invocation level of flesh to stone and hold monster to 6 and 5 respectively.

Otto's Irresistable Dance, PW:Kill and Otto's Sphere of Dancing to me are probably just on the reasonable side of infinitely castable, but if you wanted to be cautious and change them to something less powerful I think that would be reasonable, but the cooldown on the latter two is probably a sufficient safeguard in my opinion.

For the sake of ED and other classes synergy, go ahead and keep granting Warlocks spell points. I don't think that's unreasonable or particularly strange - I've had no small number of pure rogues with ~450SP wandering around in heroics.

[Iriale]

Also as a self heal possibility "Vampiric touch" a iconic D&D spell not existing in DDO. Going from memory it is a level 3 arcane necromancy school spell. It dose d6 negative damage per 2 levels of caster max 6d6 at lvl11 no save but requires a successful to hit roll and heals the caster for the same amount as damage done.

I had not read this post. But it's the first thing I thought. Varg, no need to invent mechanics alien to D&D. Use this spell, and people who like the game looks like its original pnp will be happier.

and yes, it's a level 3 arcane necromancy spell

[Lemdog]

I think the barrier, to my mind at least, is that being able to cast infinite Wail of the Banshee, Finger of Deaths, Circle of Deaths, or Mass Hold Monsters, would be hugely OP.

Delete those spells - and only those spells - from the spell list.

Longer cooldowns on said spells would be a decent patch-up if we were to be able to infinitely cast these.