Warlocks!

[IronClan]

My main issue with warlock alignment is that all other classes use the 3.5 restrictions. Why are bards unable to be lawful but rogues can be? Dunno, they just are. So, for the sake of consistency, our warlocks should be chaotic only as well. Oh well, no big deal, I guess.

it does kinda suck, and I would not strongly object to making them "any non-lawful" however I have no strong objection to unrestricted... I do see 15 Paladin 5 Warlock (or 14/6 depending on how things shake out) deathknights becoming popular. Not seeing much of anything interesting with Monk though. So I'm not sure we need to explicitly rule out Lawful...

So all hail the Knights of Cthulhu! Damaging bane aura and Dual wielded Spinal Taps*? Yes please.

*well one spinal tap the other a ToEE weapon for the 20% set bonus glamored of course

[Dragnipurake]

Just my opinion:


1st, I do not understand the hype around warlocks. I do not see that they bring anything new to DDO that was not already here in one way or the other.

2nd, I hoped that warlocks would be implemented in a way that interacts more with the available content. E.g. an enhancement tree around a pact with the available deities/deity-like entities. That you can select a deity and then receive damage abilities based on that selection. Sadly that does not seem to be the case.

3rd, that is why warlocks as of now available informations are moved to "Meh, not interested. I might buy it with a price reduction of 75%+. Just like iconics, challenges, TOEE etc.".

[Chi_Ryu]

Should I be impressed or something maybe?

Civil would be nice, good manners dont cost anything and get your point across much more effectively.

Doesn't matter the way I asked, this fact isn't gonna change: we will have a new class with zero new spells.

I am also disappointed there are (as yet) no unique spells. However, by being so rude and hostile in asking the question, you got an answer that was defensive about the resources needed to write and balance spells, instead of the more interesting discussion about what - if any - new incantations could be added to add flavour to the class, and what might be the priority if there is resource available to work on them.

[Cleanincubus]

We understand some of the lore-based frustration that Fey-based Warlocks don't have alignment restrictions.

That said, we are not even slightly swayed by Alignment-restriction arguments based on "power", which have been proposed several times in this thread and others. We don't really see why Lawful Good Warlocks are going to be overpowered in ways that Lawful Good Sorcerers are not already overpowered (as one extremely concrete example).

If someone wants to make a case for why we should pre-nerf Warlocks based on alignment, please be very thorough, and I suggest using Sorcerers as a comparison. You'll have to convince both yourself and us that either (1) Warlocks are obviously different from Sorcerers in some way that matters for alignment, or that (2) Sorcerers need to be nerfed and shouldn't be allowed to be Lawful Good.

No. How about you ignore alignment restriction arguments not based on "power", and base it on "Lore" arguments, that you've clearly ignored. You know, like how you people just based the entire Rogue pass (and the Enhancement system changes before that) on Lore and "flavor". But suddenly you're against it with a class that hasn't even been finished yet? How about getting rid of Monk and Paladin alignment restrictions then?

Here's a well thought out and thorough idea... Make an official poll with 2 simple options. Option 1: No Alignment restrictions. Option 2: Alignment restrictions. After the poll closes, look at what the majority of players chose, and do what we've told you to do.

[btolson]

I'd like to vote against Warlocks being in the primal sphere, and instead be in the arcane sphere.

It doesn't only influence where a fresh character can start, it also influences where all warlocks will get their +casting levels from (including gear options).

Allowing them to benefit from Arcane Augmentation makes the most sense to me. Displacement, Dim Door, Wail, etc all seem very arcane to me, not primal.


Of course, if you'd like to change destinies and items to confer universal spell augmentation instead of a subset of spell augmentations then I will withdraw my objection.

[nibel]

Speaking of which what do you guys envision as the Warlocks means for self healing?

It is a charisma-based class with UMD as class skills. The obvious answer is Heal scrolls.

[FuryFlash]

FvS arrived at the same time the level cap went from 16 to 20. So, they bought a ton of new spells with them: All level 9 spells in the game.

Interesting fact! I had not started playing when they were introduced. Anyway, this just shows how lame it will be if Warlock is the first caster to not come with new spells!

[Wizza]

Civil would be nice, good manners dont cost anything and get your point across much more effectively.


I am also disappointed there are (as yet) no unique spells. However, by being so rude and hostile in asking the question, you got an answer that was defensive about the resources needed to write and balance spells, instead of the more interesting discussion about what - if any - new incantations could be added to add flavour to the class, and what might be the priority if there is resource available to work on them.

I'm still civil, as Vargouille was. I've no idea for how long they have been developing Warlock but saying they didn't have time nor resources for new spells, after they said they would give casters a new dot, seems rather silly.

Wtvr I guess. I wasn't expecting much with Warlock and I wasn't impressed nor disappointed with what I see so far. Just usual lackuster stuff

Move on.

[Rinnaldo]

We hope choosing a pact is a deeply meaningful choice.

This is exactly why alignment should play some part. The player is explicitly making a choice that they know will lock out other choices. That said, I am fine with the Fey Pact being alignment-unrestricted, as long as the other two are not. In that way, if you go with Fey Pact, you are still making an alignment decision. I think the restrictions on the other two are important and would like to see Chaotic or Evil (non-Good) necessary for those.

None of these weapon statistic affect how Eldritch Blast works. From a very technical standpoint it's more like casting a spell.

This said, it feels like not creating a new kind of artifact for Warlocks to wield would be missing out on a great opportunity.

A Ritual Athamé or similar kind of item could make the Warlock even more unique. Warlock-specific tools could be scattered into treasure lists, Challenge-turns-ins, etc. It would be another thing for folks to get excited about.

Now, as to how a ceremonial knife could affect the Warlocks' powers...

You could go any of a variety of directions, and even have a tree devoted to shaping such items. (I am thinking of these more like spell implements and orbs than weapons, since it seems like using a general Something weapon of Blah would not have any effect on Eldritch Blasts. If Warlock need not wield a weapon, why not use the slot for something cool?!

Like:
- An Eldritch Implement could add to Blast damage.
- Give bonuses to those few spells Warlocks get.
- Give skill bonuses.
- Or even unlock unique traits. - ie, "Blood Magic - You use your Ritual Athamé to cut open your hand to unleash the Shadowfell. You have ethereal jaunt for x seconds." Or, "You focus all your power into your Jagged Crystal Knife, and channel your Eldritch Blast into the ground. You lose all SP and are on a cooldown for EB for x seconds. You gain the Fly spell ability for 6 seconds."

Eldritch Blast is fired with your auto-attack (aka: left mouse button for most players). There's no real cooldown except for what we're building into the animation.

From the outset I was thinking it could make Warlocks more unique if they had a certain panache to using their EB. By that I mean, think of how Monks have to hit keys in a certain sequence in order to make their powers work. If Warlocks had something new like that set off their EBs, it would be really neat. For example, you hit: Eldritch Blast hotkey button, Chain Effect hotkey button, Target NPC with your mouse, Attack button. That sequence then triggers the chain version of EB. But if you hit it not in the right order or with the right timing, you just do the base straight line EB effect. Could make it more fun.

[IronClan]

It is a charisma-based class with UMD as class skills. The obvious answer is Heal scrolls.

so in other words bladeforged are the defacto warlock race?

[Jango-EX]

it does kinda suck, and I would not strongly object to making them "any non-lawful" however I have no strong objection to unrestricted... I do see 15 Paladin 5 Warlock (or 14/6 depending on how things shake out) deathknights becoming popular. Not seeing much of anything interesting with Monk though. So I'm not sure we need to explicitly rule out Lawful...

So all hail the Knights of Cthulhu! Damaging bane aura and Dual wielded Spinal Taps*? Yes please.

*well one spinal tap the other a ToEE weapon for the 20% set bonus glamored of course

I don't know... Spinal Taps aren't going to eleven yet, are they? So how can we get that little extra?

Yeah, I don't have a STRONG objection as well... I'm more like, mildly bothered, about warlocks breaking the SACRED RULES OF ALIGNMENT RESTRICTIONS FROM THE HOLY BOOKS OF 3.5 that have been followed so far. Other than that, I don't think that it will be a big issue.

[btolson]

I'd like to vote against Warlocks being in the primal sphere, and instead be in the arcane sphere.

It doesn't only influence where a fresh character can start, it also influences where all warlocks will get their +casting levels from (including gear options).

Allowing them to benefit from Arcane Augmentation makes the most sense to me. Displacement, Dim Door, Wail, etc all seem very arcane to me, not primal.


Of course, if you'd like to change destinies and items to confer universal spell augmentation instead of a subset of spell augmentations then I will withdraw my objection.

Just to follow up on this with an example, if I were ever going to play a caster-focused (necro) warlock, I think I would much rather do it in Magister than Shiradi or Avatar, especially since none of the primal destinies offer +Cha as a stat choice. If Warlocks end up being primal casters, then I would give up 5 casting levels (==> +5 spell pen) to play in Magister.

[Moonivy]

Alignment, what so many people are butt hurt about.

1.) Alignment doesn't mean anything in ddo, it never truly has. This is NOT dungeons and dragons, they have never strictly followed standards for alignment outside of druid, bard, barbarian, paladin and monk restrictions. Otherwise 90% of the quests in the game would not be glorified assassination missions when having characters talk to some of the villains would've had a much more manageable outcome based on alignment.

2.) I don't know if you guys have noticed or not, but heavy armor is where it is right now. Heavy armor however hinders a warlock's abilities thus making one of two lawful based classes moot. Especially when the paladin performs as well as it does with out warlock abilities. Sure a little extra damage from damaging aura would be nice, but it would hardly be broken. As for monk? People fearing that monk might actually get a buff for this multiclass? Well, sadly there is very little synergy that they would get that any other class wouldn't get as well. A rogue who is superior in defensive ability to a monk gets light armor (thus some free prr/mrr) gets evasion and more useful skills.

3.) Since the E.B. is a toggle attached to the attack button, it isn't like monk or any class is going to get boosted melee damage outside of the aura which has been hinted at being a lesser amount of damage.

4.) Defense, the warlock thus far is getting nothing no other class doesn't already have for defense...If anything the class needs some form of healing outside of scroll/wand healing.


So really, stop crying about alignment. It is stated in the complete arcane that POWERFUL CREATURES can instill a pact. What is to stop a paladin consulting with a Solar angel to gain power at the price of his soul. A sacrifice for the greatest good to better understand the powers of evil so they can destroy them? Or a great wyrm gold dragon instilling a bit of its tired old soul to a youthful and promising martial artist to aid them in keeping the law and good of the land? D&D isn't meant to be run strictly by the books, it even states that the books are just guidelines. That is why there are so many home brew versions and rules. Not everything applies to one person's perceptions.

There you have it, dry your eyes. A non-restrictive alignment isn't what this class needs. What it needs are for people to give the devs some constructive criticism rather than being cry babies on the internet because they need a place to shell out their insecurities of always being wrong and insignificant in the real world.

[dunklezhan]

Warlocks don't need to splash to be effective melee combatants and if you gimp their melee tree so they have to splash it'll be stupid. Give them a capstone that promotes a PURE warlock who's a melee combatant. One that's comparable to whatever splash ideas you may think are worth it.

I agree. The 'melee' tree should definitely make sure they can work standalone as a pure class warlock melee. Don't make it another EK where it's nearly there but still short of the mark, or another Druid Bear where it only comes close to working as part of a multi build.

[Vargouille]

be REALLY careful with allowing AOE Eldritch blasts... right now as proposed I could easilly see Nuking as anything other than a Warlock becoming completely proxy nerfed.

It is likely that the % of spellpower that AoE Eldritch Blasts scale with will be lower than single-target Eldritch Blasts. There could be other damage modifiers for the AoE; it won't be the same as single target except multiplied.

[Jango-EX]

Alignment, what so many people are butt hurt about.

1.) Alignment doesn't mean anything in ddo, it never truly has. This is NOT dungeons and dragons, they have never strictly followed standards for alignment outside of druid, bard, barbarian, paladin and monk restrictions. Otherwise 90% of the quests in the game would not be glorified assassination missions when having characters talk to some of the villains would've had a much more manageable outcome based on alignment.

2.) I don't know if you guys have noticed or not, but heavy armor is where it is right now. Heavy armor however hinders a warlock's abilities thus making one of two lawful based classes moot. Especially when the paladin performs as well as it does with out warlock abilities. Sure a little extra damage from damaging aura would be nice, but it would hardly be broken. As for monk? People fearing that monk might actually get a buff for this multiclass? Well, sadly there is very little synergy that they would get that any other class wouldn't get as well. A rogue who is superior in defensive ability to a monk gets light armor (thus some free prr/mrr) gets evasion and more useful skills.

3.) Since the E.B. is a toggle attached to the attack button, it isn't like monk or any class is going to get boosted melee damage outside of the aura which has been hinted at being a lesser amount of damage.

4.) Defense, the warlock thus far is getting nothing no other class doesn't already have for defense...If anything the class needs some form of healing outside of scroll/wand healing.


So really, stop crying about alignment. It is stated in the complete arcane that POWERFUL CREATURES can instill a pact. What is to stop a paladin consulting with a Solar angel to gain power at the price of his soul. A sacrifice for the greatest good to better understand the powers of evil so they can destroy them? Or a great wyrm gold dragon instilling a bit of its tired old soul to a youthful and promising martial artist to aid them in keeping the law and good of the land? D&D isn't meant to be run strictly by the books, it even states that the books are just guidelines. That is why there are so many home brew versions and rules. Not everything applies to one person's perceptions.

There you have it, dry your eyes. A non-restrictive alignment isn't what this class needs. What it needs are for people to give the devs some constructive criticism rather than being cry babies on the internet because they need a place to shell out their insecurities of always being wrong and insignificant in the real world.

Your so called "facts" are just your opinions. Heavily-biased. Guess you are the one with the butthurting, instead.

Alignment in DDO matters. Try to make a bladeforged that is a bard out of the blue. Ops, you can't. There, it matters.

[Holybird]

Rude? More likely disappointed. A new class and absolutely zero new spells. Should I be impressed or something maybe? Doesn't matter the way I asked, this fact isn't gonna change: we will have a new class with zero new spells.

ok, now I am being a complete ******, but why are you concerned about having zero new spells with Warlock? This class doesn't even have spells in the first place....


Now to actual comments. Too tired to really write anything useful, but I like that we are finally getting Warlocks. And I'm quite interested about EB toggle. Fey Pact seems to be good with their bonuses to Reflex saves, but I'm really going to roll a Great Old one. What comes to alignment restrictions.... I have no opinion about it, but I think Monk or Pali splash won't make the difference.

[HatsuharuZ]

As per the title. There are couple of ways to do this that don't (probably) making entirely new spells with new animations any everything.


-> Combining Utility and Defensive spells: Combine multiple utility or defensive spells into a single spell. (Example: Jump + Tumble + Featherfall = "Leaps and Bounds".)

-> The Shiradi Route: Add in a toggle which attaches damage to a harmful spell before it's effects are applied. This would be damage currently given to eldritch blast from the caster's pact choice.

-> Non-Ray Single-Target Spells: Allow spells such as "Blindness" and "Cause Fear" to chain to multiple targets, with an extra allowed target added every few caster levels. Up to 6 at CL 20 would be fine.

-> Let Ray Spells Split: Allow ray spells such as "Ray of Enfeeblement" gain an extra "ray" at CL 8 and again at CL16 (as an example). Alternatively, let these spells strike multiple enemies like "Flying Daggers" does.

-> Warlock's Curse: Add in something similar to W.C. from fourth edition. It's basically the "Cursespewing" weapon proc, except damage depends on how many hits the target takes while under its' effect.

[MonadRebelion]

it does kinda suck, and I would not strongly object to making them "any non-lawful" however I have no strong objection to unrestricted... I do see 15 Paladin 5 Warlock (or 14/6 depending on how things shake out) deathknights becoming popular. Not seeing much of anything interesting with Monk though. So I'm not sure we need to explicitly rule out Lawful...

So all hail the Knights of Cthulhu! Damaging bane aura and Dual wielded Spinal Taps*? Yes please.

*well one spinal tap the other a ToEE weapon for the 20% set bonus glamored of course

Haven't had time to follow the thread, but ignoring pnp alignment restrictions is the kind of thing that really upsets me. I play this game for dnd, and that's it. I don't like video games. I like dnd games. The closer this game gets to generic mmo's the worse it gets and the more I'm tempted to just quit.

[JackLV]

[QUOTE=Vargouille;5608590]We're happy to introduce Warlocks, coming soon to DDO! These eldritch casters form pacts with powerful beings, seeking out rare and often forbidden knowledge. They deal large amounts of damage with their Eldritch Blast, and back that damage up with a variety of buff, control, and utility abilities.

Warlock design draws from a variety of pen and paper editions, but primarily 3.5 and 5th edition. Unlike Sorcerers or Wizards, damage comes primarily through Eldritch Blast, rather than frequently casting damaging spells or SLAs. They choose a Pact at level 1 through a feat, which alters their Eldritch Blast and determines certain class feats that are granted as more Warlock levels are gained.

Reminder this is a fairly early preview and things are subject to change. Abilities may move between feats and enhancements, or alter to accommodate what's changed elsewhere, etc.

Class Features

• Hit die: d6
• Cast Warlock spells in Light Armor without Arcane Spell Failure (like Bards)
• Strong Will saves, weak Fortitude and Reflex saves
• 3/4 Base Attack Bonus progression with class levels (+15 with 20 Warlock levels)

• Any alignment
• General structure of spell progression and spell points is similar to Bards:
  
  • Level 6 is maximum spell level for Warlocks.
  • Spells are learned, known and swapped like Bards or Sorcerers.
  • Spell list is primarily drawn from existing DDO spells, though we hope to have time to add some more.

Eldritch Blast

• This is a toggle feat. When you toggle it on, your basic attack (regardless of weapons held) becomes a ranged magical attack that hits a single enemy.
• This initially deals 1d6 Force damage. There are ways to augment and alter this.
• This does not cost Spellpoints, nor Hitpoints, nor anything other than time, much like swinging a weapon.
• The default Eldritch Blast goes in a straight line. It doesn't home in. Enemies that move may avoid it.
• You move at full speed while casting Eldritch Blast, unlike most spell casting.
• Base Eldritch Blast damage increases with further Warlock levels, per the table listed below.
• Eldritch Blast damage scales with a percentage of Spellpower. Exact amount to be determined.
• Eldritch Blast criticals are based on magical stats: Critical Spell Chance and Critical Spell Damage.
• There are Eldritch Blast Shapes that alter how you attack enemies. Single Target attacks are generally going to do higher damage per creature than AoE, for instance. These Shapes toggles are available in the enhancement trees.
  
  • Single Target
  • Chain
  • Cone
  • Point-blank AoE (aura around Warlock)

Pacts

• You choose a Pact at Warlock level 1, such as Fiend, Fey, or Great Old One.
• Fey: Toggle: Your Eldritch Blasts now deal +1d4 extra Sonic damage per two Warlock levels. Adds Obscuring Mist to your Warlock spellbook.
• Fiend: Toggle: Your Eldritch Blasts now deal +1d4 extra Fire damage per two Warlock levels. Adds Command to your Warlock spellbook. (Tentatively, this requires that you not be Good. There's some technical investigation we need to look into here.)
• Great Old One: Toggle: Your Eldritch Blasts now deal +1d4 extra Acid damage two Warlock levels. Adds Entangle to your Warlock spellbook. (Tentatively, this requires that you not be Lawful. There's some technical investigation we need to look into here.)
• Every even Warlock class level grants +1 die for Eldritch Blast Pact Damage (1d4)
• Each Pact grants additional spells to your spellbook as you gain Warlock levels.

ENHANCEMENT TREES
Soul Eater
Your pact makes you an extension of your patron's hunger. You body and mind become more inhuman, and your ability to consume the souls and life force of your enemies also feeds your patron. Your attacks erode the life essence of your targets.

• Notable Enhancements:
  
  1. Eldritch Blast Shape: Chain Lighting
  2. Damage-over-time effects
  3. Debuff
  4. Death Effects

Tainted Scholar
No secret is barred from the Tainted Scholar's grasp, and if such forbidden knowledge comes at the cost of his soul, he's willing to pay that price.

• Notable Enhancements:
  
  1. Eldritch Blast Shape: Cone
  2. Eldritch Essences that alter how Eldritch Blast work
  3. Direct damage boosting of Eldritch Blast
  4. Crowd Control, including a new Confusion ability that causes enemies to attack player and monster characters indiscriminately.

Enlightened Spirit
Although the fiendish origins of some warlocks' powers can’t be denied, not all Warlocks embrace the darkness. Some turn toward the light. Such rare individuals are called Enlightened Spirits.

• Notable Enhancements:
  
  1. Eldritch Blast Shape: Point Blank Area of Effect: While toggled on, this deals damage around, scaling with your Eldritch Blast damage. This particular shape allows you to attack with melee or ranged weapons while damaging enemies around you.
  2. Aura abilities that primarily buff allies around you
  3. Mitigation
  4. Pet/Summon/Charm support
  
  
• We expect this tree to be popular with some cross-class melee builds.

Please see follow-up posts for additional details on the class. Full Enhancement tree proposals to come later.

We'd love to