Last ranger life on my Repeater Gal - Full on Harper?

[voodoogroves]

Ok, did a quick cap on my three main toons and TR'd two of them. One is going to park at cap and run some shrouds so I can make another leveling twink weapon for more heroic TRs, one's finishing up her wizard lives ... and the other I'd like to throw a third ranger life on.

She's been repeater for a few lives, and the first two ranger lives she did as a rogue/ranger/arti 6/6/6 split (essentially). This time I'm thinking of maybe going Arti 2 / Ranger for the next 11 levels / Arti 2 more (because I do love me some fusillade) and then likely some rogue or more ranger up to 18. Arti 4 / Ranger 11 / Rogue 5 isn't horrible but I could also suffer through Arti 4 / Ranger 16 easily enough.

Anyway, I'm thinking of going T5 in Harper as frankly I'm not seeing much I like in the Ranger trees and I'd like a bit of feedback / sanity checking. Here's what I'm thinking:

Battle Engineer: 26 AP total; I'm unsure if Infused Weapons will stack w/ the Harper weapon enhancements, but I'm hoping the crit confirm/damage will at least. Otherwise, it's focus on a few skills to meet investment thresholds, xbow damage, INT and fusillade
- Core: 2 AP for the first two tiers
- T1: Crossbow (2), Engineer (3)
- T2: Crossbow (2), OPEN (1)
- T3: Crossbow (2), Extra Action Boost (6), Int (2)
- T4: Crossbow (2), Int (2), Fusillade (2)

Harper: 39 AP total. Mostly this is INT-based stuff, some HP and skills. I think I've got the progression correct, but could have a few timing errors.
- Core: Agent of Good 1/2/3 (3), Int 2 (4)
- T1: Strategic (2), HP (3)
- T2: Versatile (3), Know Angles (1)
- T3: Skilled (3), Versatile (3), Int (2), Strategic (2)
- T4: Vigor (2), Versatile (3), Int (2)
- T5: Versatile (3), Enchant (2)

This puts me at 65. Now I'm wondering if I should go drow, or human. I think Human (10 AP + 4 AP from Deepwood) adds more Sneak, plus boosts INT while action boosting (which is both Damage Boost and Fusillade) and extra boost from BE should give more Damage Boosts as well. Drow adds a bit more raw INT and leaves open a few other options w/ the spare points (I could maybe fit in Damage Boost from BE) ... drow adds the SR, which could be handy in heroic.

Deepwood: 6 AP for 3 sneak dice (far shot, sneak attack, stealthy), 1 AP for 1 sneak die, 4 AP for 2 sneak dice (far shot + stealthy)
- Core (2)
- T1: Stealthy (3), something (1)

Drow: 6 AP
- SR (1), INT (2), SR (1), INT (2)

Human: 10 AP
- Damage Boost (2); INT (2)
- T1: Action Surge INT (3)
- T2: Sniper (3)


Thoughts? Other than "dangit voodoo you've leveled through multiple ranger lives already, either of these will get you to the Vale faster than previous ... stop thinking so much"

[unbongwah]

TBH, I don't consider Fusillade to be worth the APs when there are more interesting options, particularly now that Mechanic got a big buff: e.g., 39 APs Mechanic (T5s, Fletching), 28 APs DWS (Sniper Shot, max Killer, Merciful Shot), 13 APs Harper (KtA, Versatile Adept). Up to +26 Ranged Power from Mechanic+Harper, up to +30% Doubleshot from Killer+Rapid Fire, +6 dmg from Sharpshooter, some ranged special atks like Sniper Shot, Merciful Shot, and Leg Shot to cycle thru just for some variety.

Main downside is it's a fairly backloaded combo; not sure what a good heroic leveling order would be. Maybe rog 1, arty 1-2, rgr 1-4, rog 2-6, rgr 5-8, arty 3-6? Or rog 6 / rgr 12 / arty 2? Just making this up as I go along...

[voodoogroves]

TBH, I don't consider Fusillade to be worth the APs when there are more interesting options, particularly now that Mechanic got a big buff: e.g., 39 APs Mechanic (T5s, Fletching), 28 APs DWS (Sniper Shot, max Killer, Merciful Shot), 13 APs Harper (KtA, Versatile Adept). Up to +26 Ranged Power from Mechanic+Harper, up to +30% Doubleshot from Killer+Rapid Fire, +6 dmg from Sharpshooter, some ranged special atks like Sniper Shot, Merciful Shot, and Leg Shot to cycle thru just for some variety.

Main downside is it's a fairly backloaded combo; not sure what a good heroic leveling order would be. Maybe rog 1, arty 1-2, rgr 1-4, rog 2-6, rgr 5-8, arty 3-6? Or rog 6 / rgr 12 / arty 2? Just making this up as I go along...

Yeah, that's the deal. Last time I did this, I found I had to retrain feats as the ranger grants came at odd times. *IF* I were going to level through epics, I'd be doing something different (and really the life after this will be more traditional mechanic).

I really don't see the value in DWS - the repeater reload sequence makes the shots extremely un-fun deal with (and unreliable).

I think I'm overthinking it.

[unbongwah]

Just foolin' with the builder:

Spray `n Pray
8/6/6 Ranger/Rogue/Artificer
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Ranger. . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Artificer. . . .7. Ranger. . . . .12. Ranger . . . . 17. Ranger
3. Artificer. . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Ranger . . . . 18. Ranger
4. Ranger . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Artificer. . . 19. Artificer
5. Ranger . . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Artificer. . . 20. Artificer


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6 . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . 15. . . .+6 . . . 8: INT
Constitution. . 16 . . . 16. . . .+6 . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 18 . . . 18. . . .+6 . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6 . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . 10. . . .+6 . . .24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Human. : Insightful Reflexes
.3. . . . : Precision
.4 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
.9. . . . : Power Critical
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15 Arti . : Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Watchful Eye
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (1 AP)

Damage Boost

Mechanic (39 AP)

Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights

Sharpshooter, Mechanics II
Sharpshooter, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot II, Use Magical Device III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader

Deepwood Stalker (28 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot

Favored Defense: Resistance I, Stealthy III, Tendon Cut III
Favored Defense: Protection I
Favored Accuracy III, Aimed Shot
Favored Damage III, Killer III, Merciful Shot

Harper Agent (12 AP)

Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles II
Versatile Adept II


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Damage Boost III, Constitution
Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
<none>
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

Twists of Fate (14 fate points)

Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shirardi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shirardi)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

I don't like how much filler you have to take from Mechanic and DWS to get to the good stuff, but so it goes. I also considered Shiradi as primary ED, with LD Haste Boost twisted in.

[voodoogroves]

Just foolin' with the builder:

Spray `n Pray
8/6/6 Ranger/Rogue/Artificer
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Ranger. . . . .11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Artificer. . . .7. Ranger. . . . .12. Ranger . . . . 17. Ranger
3. Artificer. . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Ranger . . . . 18. Ranger
4. Ranger . . . . .9. Rogue . . . . .14. Artificer. . . 19. Artificer
5. Ranger . . . . 10. Rogue . . . . .15. Artificer. . . 20. Artificer


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6 . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . 15. . . .+6 . . . 8: INT
Constitution. . 16 . . . 16. . . .+6 . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 18 . . . 18. . . .+6 . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . .8. . . .+6 . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . 10. . . .+6 . . .24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Human. : Insightful Reflexes
.3. . . . : Precision
.4 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
.9. . . . : Power Critical
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15 Arti . : Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Watchful Eye
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (1 AP)

Damage Boost

Mechanic (39 AP)

Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights

Sharpshooter, Mechanics II
Sharpshooter, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot II, Use Magical Device III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader

Deepwood Stalker (28 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot

Favored Defense: Resistance I, Stealthy III, Tendon Cut III
Favored Defense: Protection I
Favored Accuracy III, Aimed Shot
Favored Damage III, Killer III, Merciful Shot

Harper Agent (12 AP)

Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles II
Versatile Adept II


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Damage Boost III, Constitution
Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
<none>
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

Twists of Fate (14 fate points)

Otto's Whistler (Tier 3 Shirardi)
Pin (Tier 2 Shirardi)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

I don't like how much filler you have to take from Mechanic and DWS to get to the good stuff, but so it goes. I also considered Shiradi as primary ED, with LD Haste Boost twisted in.

Yeah, it is really late-blooming - as as I've said ... the 6/6/6 builds I've done twice now. The feat-juggling and late-blooming is annoying, for sure. There's so little good repeater stuff in the ranger trees, I'm inclined to put more AP into the others.

For Fusillade ... I find it very useful around Necro / GH. Plus, it makes a very pleasing sound ;-)

[unbongwah]

I really don't see the value in DWS - the repeater reload sequence makes the shots extremely un-fun deal with (and unreliable).

Reload animation on repeaters should now be automatic and therefore you shouldn't waste special atks anymore. I've not played a repeater build since U25 went up, though, so YMMV.

There's so little good repeater stuff in the ranger trees, I'm inclined to put more AP into the others.

Yeah, the problem with DWS is the cores and T4s are good for repeaters, but T1 thru T3 are not. You could do 23 APs in Assassin (max Killer) and only 11 APs in DWS (Sniper Shot), but with 39 APs Mechanic that would leave only 7 APs for Harper (just enough for KtA).

[Deathdefy]

Reload animation on repeaters should now be automatic and therefore you shouldn't waste special atks anymore. I've not played a repeater build since U25 went up, though, so YMMV.

Yeah, the problem with DWS is the cores and T4s are good for repeaters, but T1 thru T3 are not. You could do 23 APs in Assassin (max Killer) and only 11 APs in DWS (Sniper Shot), but with 39 APs Mechanic that would leave only 7 APs for Harper (just enough for KtA).

I love Sniper Shot an unreasonable amount and just couldn't imagine a ranged ranger build without it. Refreshing KTA even every 2 mins grinds my gears, so I'd probably just sacrifice a bunch of stuff from assassin to go 3/3 KTA, toss in 3 AP into Acrobat for the movement speed (even if it is only 5%), maybe get some Sprint Boost from Tempest, then put the rest (assuming there are excess AP) in the racial or something.

Incidentally, how many different types of Leg Shot can you get? Can you get all 3? That would be a coup.

The Assassin tree is cool and all, but yeah. I'd just grab Venomed Blades and whatever Sneak Attack was convenient.

[voodoogroves]

I love Sniper Shot an unreasonable amount and just couldn't imagine a ranged ranger build without it. Refreshing KTA even every 2 mins grinds my gears, so I'd probably just sacrifice a bunch of stuff from assassin to go 3/3 KTA, toss in 3 AP into Acrobat for the movement speed (even if it is only 5%), maybe get some Sprint Boost from Tempest, then put the rest (assuming there are excess AP) in the racial or something.

Incidentally, how many different types of Leg Shot can you get? Can you get all 3? That would be a coup.

The Assassin tree is cool and all, but yeah. I'd just grab Venomed Blades and whatever Sneak Attack was convenient.

Indeed

I may have to shove in the cores to Sniper Shot, just because.

My biggest struggle is the timing - all of these things look nifty - but frankly, I should just admit I'm only going to spend 72 AP on this build (level 18), and if that means I'm not getting something into 17 with a bunch of AP-tax ahead of time I should concentrate on front-loading the trees and getting what I need to finish faster. Sprint Boost, etc. ... making sure my BAB is good to get Improved Crit early, etc. and just putting the nail in the head of the ranger-lives coffin.

[RockHeavy]

Since the changes to crossbow animations and attack speed, my own opinion now is that Sniper Shot is far better value than Endless Fusilade. The delay to initialise EF is just too long to make it worthwhile.

If you are planning to TR straight away at 20, I'd go with your 2 Art/11 Ranger start and get Sniper Shot along with T5 Harper Deception option - then fill out your last 7 (5 really) levels with Rogue and mechanic tree crossbow bonuses or more sneak attack. Drow for more int - max points into int & con, nothing else matters (remainder into dex probably).

[voodoogroves]

Since the changes to crossbow animations and attack speed, my own opinion now is that Sniper Shot is far better value than Endless Fusilade. The delay to initialise EF is just too long to make it worthwhile.

If you are planning to TR straight away at 20, I'd go with your 2 Art/11 Ranger start and get Sniper Shot along with T5 Harper Deception option - then fill out your last 7 (5 really) levels with Rogue and mechanic tree crossbow bonuses or more sneak attack. Drow for more int - max points into int & con, nothing else matters (remainder into dex probably).

Good thoughts - this I think is close to where I'm ending up. Math-wise, I think I'm going to go INT Drow, and ... dump dex. If I put points into Harper first, I can get INT to hit and damage @ level 4. Point Blank Shot doesn't have a dex requirement, though Precision does so it may need to wait a bit until the tomes come online (she's got a mix of +3 to +5 on everything - hasn't played since the cap went past 25).

Arti 2 / Ranger next 11 - then whatever / rogue

(1) Point Blank Shot
(2) Rapid Reload (granted)
(3) Insightful Reflexes
(4) Rapid Shot (granted)
(5)
(6) Precise Shot (granted) ... what to put here? Power Critical? Maximize? Quicken?
(7)
(8)
(9) Improved Critical
(10)
(11) (Evasion)
(12) Precision
(13) Improved Precise (granted)

15 and 18 maybe picking up the other of the Quicken / Empower Healing / Maximize just to make GH / Orchard / Vale / etc. easier.

EDIT: I like the deception option, as then I can just wear my Ring of Lies w/ Imp Deception (they both still stack right?)

[RockHeavy]

(6) Precise Shot (granted) ... what to put here? Power Critical? Maximize? Quicken?

Personally, I'd currently go for Heavy Armour prof as I feel the PRR / MRR benefits outweigh evasion. May not be optimal depending on what armours you have available of course.

Not sure if Harper deception stacks with Ring of Lies (I don't have one to check). If not, then Harper Righteousness gives a nice +3 - and yes, it does stack with Battle Engineer core weapon enhancements.

To be honest though, you'll sail through heroic levels on elite BB streak whatever you pick. EE still causes problems for my Arti - but that is mainly due to a lack of defenses caused by my own laziness to farm appropriate gear until I've finished with the TRs. Anything else is a cakewalk.

[voodoogroves]

Personally, I'd currently go for Heavy Armour prof as I feel the PRR / MRR benefits outweigh evasion. May not be optimal depending on what armours you have available of course.

I'm kinda partial to my Light Blackscale and Frozen Tunics, but there could be better options. I could probably make another set of black, but I'm not sure I'm ready to do that - of my now-reduced-to-just-three characters I play, two of them run Black in melee/ranged lives but the third doesn't have a suit yet.

Not sure if Harper deception stacks with Ring of Lies (I don't have one to check). If not, then Harper Righteousness gives a nice +3 - and yes, it does stack with Battle Engineer core weapon enhancements.

Deception and Improved Deception used to stack; pretty sure the Ring has Improved (or Golden Guile, though it comes later).

To be honest though, you'll sail through heroic levels on elite BB streak whatever you pick. EE still causes problems for my Arti - but that is mainly due to a lack of defenses caused by my own laziness to farm appropriate gear until I've finished with the TRs. Anything else is a cakewalk.

[/quote]
Yeah, I hear you.

This will be my last ranger - but I want to put a few pally and monk on her too. Then who knows.