Harper Agent Melee Wizard - Terrible idea?

[RumpleHorril]

Been away from the game for a while, and my kids started getting into playing during my absence. Need to TR a character to run with them, so dropping down a stabled 1st life WF FvS with a passable Heroic assortment of caster gear.

Not going to be doing epics... at all... so not bothering with that aspect or anything past level 20. Will probably be spending most of it's time carrying my kids soulstones around in Hard and Normal quests, so I thought this might be a fun way to play around with a Wizard life while not having to actually be a full caster (which I don't particularly enjoy).

Wanted to utilize the Harper INT to attack & Damage with THF/Greatswords. Figure I'd spend most of the time fighting in a firewall, acid cloud, or some such CC spell with as many damage mitigation spells as I could fit in the spell roster. Other than that... haven't really given this too much thought. No real experience with the PM line, but I threw it in here because it seems like everyone else does, and while I'm not seeing the synergy of losing the repair skill in favor of negative energy healing, I figure I'm missing something that one of you fine forumites will likely point out.

Build theory below... any and all feedback welcome

Updated with below feedback

THF-wiz-rogue-melee
17/2/1 Wizard/Rogue/Fighter
Chaotic Good Warforged


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Wizard. . . . .11. Wizard . . . . 16. Wizard
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Rogue . . . . .12. Wizard . . . . 17. Wizard
3. Wizard . . . . .8. Wizard. . . . .13. Wizard . . . . 18. Wizard
4. Wizard . . . . .9. Wizard. . . . .14. Wizard . . . . 19. Wizard
5. Wizard . . . . 10. Wizard. . . . .15. Wizard . . . . 20. Wizard


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt. . .36pt . . Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .----. . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 13. . . .13 . . . 13 . . . 13. . . .+2 . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 13. . . .13 . . . 13 . . . 13. . . .+1 . . . 8: INT
Constitution. . 12. . . .16 . . . 16 . . . 16. . . .+2 . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 18. . . .18 . . . 18 . . . 18. . . .+1 . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . . 6 . . . .8 . . . 10. . . .+2 . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . 6 . . . .6 . . . .6. . . .+2 . . .


Skills
. . . . . R .F. W .W. W .W. R .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W. W .W
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 2 . . . . . . .2. . .1. 1 .1. 1 .2. 2 .2. 2 .2. 2 .1. 1 .1. 23
Repair. . 4 . . . .1. 1 .2. 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Spellcr . 2 . . 2 .2. 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Disable . 4 . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Search. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 . . 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Balance . 4 .1. . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
Haggle. . 4 .½. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .½. ½ .1. .6½
Open Lo . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Spot. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Move Si . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Swim. . . . .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .48 .6. 6 .7. 7 .7 13 .7. 7 .7. 7 .8. 8 .8. 8 .8. 8 .8. 8 .9


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.2 Fighter: Cleave
.3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.3 Wizard : Maximize Spell
.6. . . . : Mithral Body
.8 Wizard : Heighten Spell
.9. . . . : Great Cleave
12. . . . : Mental Toughness
13 Wizard : Spell Focus: Enchantment
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
18. . . . : Empower Spell
18 Wizard : Spell Focus: Evocation


Spells

1. Expeditious Retreat, Nightshield, Jump, Niac's Cold Ray, Magic Missile
2. Blur, Scorching Ray, Web, Repair Moderate Damage, Glitterdust
3. Displacement, Fireball, Hold Person, Repair Serious Damage, Haste
4. Acid Rain, Wall of Fire, Repair Critical Damage, Ice Storm, Dimension Door
5. Hold Monster, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Mind Fog, Protection from Elements
6. Acid Fog, Greater Heroism, Reconstruct, Circle of Death, Chain Lightning
7. Mass Hold Person, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Waves of Exhaustion, Delayed Blast Fireball
8. Incendiary Cloud, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Horrid Wilting
9. Mass Hold Monster, Meteor Swarm

Enhancements (80 AP)

Warforged (4 AP)

• Improved Fortification
  
  1. Inscribed Armor III

Harper Agent (38 AP)

• Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II, Intelligence, Agent of Good III
  
  1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness III, Strategic Combat
  2. Magical Endurance III, Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
  3. Versatile Adept II, Strategic Combat, Intelligence
  4. Versatile Adept II, Intelligence
  5. Harper Enchantment: Righteousness, Versatile Adept II, Magic of Patience

Mechanic (7 AP)

• Arbalester
  
  1. Mechanics III, Awareness III

Eldritch Knight (18 AP)

• Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Shock, Spellsword II: Frost
  
  1. Improved Mage Armor III, Toughness III, Battlemage I
  2. Improved Shield III, Martial Training
  3. Arcane Barrier III

Archmage (13 AP)

• Magic Missile
  
  1. Energy of the Scholar II, Spell Critical
  2. Efficient Maximize III

[Daine]

Heroic normal and hard, any flavour goes!

Toughness doesn't unlock anything anymore and gives 3hp +1 per extra level, so you may want to swap it for something else later in your build. Maybe even put extend in as it sounds like you may be amongst other things, the buff bot for your kids. Extend works nicely because as it becomes pointless due to your level making spells last longer, toughness (if you feel you need it) becomes useful. Extend also works on your death aura's if you want to run around in undead form.

[voodoogroves]

Curious why the 3rd fighter? I don't see you using any of the enhancement trees, and without that it truly is a dead level - you're also not really getting much BAB bonus out of it, are you?

I'd also try to cleave and great cleave (which you don't seem to have) earlier.

Also, last I knew Maximize was better than Empower early ... is this still true?

Maybe ...

1. Adamantine (can you start with Mithral and Fred this out?); Maximize (bonus)
2. (fighter) Power Attack
3. Cleave
6. Great Cleave; Wizard bonus (spell focus)

[TitusOvid]

Why are you going undead with a wf? I think reconstruct on quicken is the way to go. Since you go in harper tree your dc's should be nice. Try to make something out of that too. Finger and wail should work fanstatic on heroic maybe even on eh, dunno about ee. But since you won't run epics, don't bother. Hold Monster and than hack them into pieces, always fun.

[unbongwah]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ar-Infiltrator
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-of-Velsharoon

[RumpleHorril]

Sooo...

Think I'll scrap the PM line other than anything useful for insta-kills and maybe the pet...

AM, EK, and HA for the Heroic Win then...

The 3rd Fighter level was for the BAB... but by the time I get the required IC Slashing, it's pretty late in the life... I'll play with the 2 FTR/1Rog or 2rog/1FTR options to see if that goes a little better with what I was originally planning.

Couple of questions then:
Evasion works with Mithril body?
Are staffs(staves) worth investing in if I don't go full Thief Acrobat? (I'd have to go find some some... I don't really have any)

[UurlockYgmeov]

check my sig - for several harper builds.... INT Fight / Wiz

[Daine]

Are staffs(staves) worth investing in if I don't go full Thief Acrobat? (I'd have to go find some some... I don't really have any)

No, they are terrible weapons without staff specialisation compared to what you can wield with your EK martial training, ie the two-handed 'great' weapons, maul and falchion.

Also I see you chose shield training in EK when you want to be a two handed weapon wielder, you may be spreading yourself a bit too thin there. Ultimately if you are out of power and feel the need to turtle up, carry a tower shield and dont worry about the penalties. If you did this in a PuG it could be considered weak, but if you're just playing with family they 'should' be more forgiving!

Of course with your low strength you may not want to be carrying any shield, keeping your encumbrance as low as possible will help greatly the moment someone lands a ray of exhaustion or any other strength sapping effect on you. Carrying close to the limit will lead to you being made helpless more than you should be.

[voodoogroves]

Sooo...

Think I'll scrap the PM line other than anything useful for insta-kills and maybe the pet...

AM, EK, and HA for the Heroic Win then...

The 3rd Fighter level was for the BAB... but by the time I get the required IC Slashing, it's pretty late in the life... I'll play with the 2 FTR/1Rog or 2rog/1FTR options to see if that goes a little better with what I was originally planning.

You end up w/ the same BAB at 20 with 2 or 3 fighter and the remaining wizard. Anyway, what might be more useful is one fighter level early (2 or 3) and the other late. Like 20. That may not get you the feats as fast as you'd like, but it gets you the 11 BAB right at 20 (GTHF).

Couple of questions then:
Evasion works with Mithril body?

Yes

Are staffs(staves) worth investing in if I don't go full Thief Acrobat? (I'd have to go find some some... I don't really have any)

If you're just talking heroic, you could keep yourself well-suited with crafted staves. There aren't many super awesome named ones though, and you may find you lag.


I'm with you on the near-full-wizard fighter thing. I'd like to make something like that happen as well on one of my past lives, but it seems absurdly difficult to make what you'd like work on a WF - and wraith form is a nice damage mitigation.

Lemme find my notes - they aren't ready and I'm still chewing, but I've been looking at the same problem and have been trolling harper threads (like Uurlock's, CookieQueen, etc.)

[amnota]

I just ran a WF Wiz combo for 2 past lives

15Wiz/4Bard/1Arti

SWF

It did everything in game I asked it to in the 1 to 20 sprints as I call them for leveling
Traps/self heals with repair
Int to damage

Performed a bit better than I expected (and had a dog for levers)

YMMV (Trelaf has been a Completionist for 4 years now so there were plenty of points to spread around in the stats)

[Kriogen]

Sooo...

Think I'll scrap the PM line other than anything useful for insta-kills and maybe the pet...

AM, EK, and HA for the Heroic Win then...

The 3rd Fighter level was for the BAB... but by the time I get the required IC Slashing, it's pretty late in the life... I'll play with the 2 FTR/1Rog or 2rog/1FTR options to see if that goes a little better with what I was originally planning.

Couple of questions then:
Evasion works with Mithril body?
Are staffs(staves) worth investing in if I don't go full Thief Acrobat? (I'd have to go find some some... I don't really have any)

Wizard18/Rogue2 is enough. You don't need Fighter1.

Staves: http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Quarterstaffs

Personaly i like http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Chieftain%27s_Spear and http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Theurgic_Stave or http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Luminous_Truth for heroics.

Staves are fine. Did it and with Acrobat perks, for melee its as good as anything else. Problem is Two Handed Fighting. Where will you put magic related gear. Spell power, spell lore stuff. At base, not boosted, spells are kind of meh. Most of those boosters are 'hands' weapons, items.

Two Weapon Fighting or Single Weapon Fighting + Orb is better for battle mage. Even Sword&Board better.

[Ghwyn]

Melee wizard is amazing with the correct splash and enhancements. I am thinking about posting my build, which has gone through many variations in the fine tuning process. To make it work, focus on melee and self buffs, dump offensive casting.

[Kodwraith]

I am currently leveling a 1Rogue/1Fighter/18 wiz melee caster hybrid. Instead of cleave/Gr cleave, I took Shield mastery and ISM. I may be trading those in for SWF line at cap.

Currently it's slow to start in the low level range since you need a lot of AP to get Harper int to dmg + ASF mitigation + eldritch knight + undead form. Even by 10, you can't quite keep everythign up at once.

The melee DPS is not great. Even with Harper, you still just dont attack as fast as the TWF barb next to you.

What you do have is crazy survivability. PRR + HA + shield + displacement + haste makes for lots of mitigation and I haven't even got to wraith yet. I basically healed all through lvls 1-10 with just pots.

And I agree with Ghwyn; you basically use all your SP on buffs. I do throw down a Firewall every once in a while, but the build is hard to gear with that much SP gear because the melee gear takes most of the slots so I don't have that much fire SP. I ususally concentrate on force SP for the archmage SLA.

[TheWalruss]

I did a Harper Agent melee Wizard that I enjoyed immensely. I did EE content with it all the way from level 20-28 two times (ETRed first time I capped). Some quest were easy to solo, some quests required a group of two or more players.

Sun Elf (LR +1) or Drow
Max int (20),PA (13 str), the rest in con.
Tier 5 Pale Master for Shroud and DCs, Harper Agent for Melee Power and Know the Angles, Racial Intelligance, all the intelligence you can get, some stuff in Eldritch Knight.
SWF with orb (swap between melee and casting), Enchantment DCs for hold/mass hold.
In gear your milestones are Razorend and Skull of Madness (the one from Gianthold). In epic levels, hp items, int items, spell DC items (get Thunderforged as early as possible).
Destiny: Shadowdancer for evasion. If you're going with medium armor and PRR Magister is ok. Exalted Angel is also really fun. Energy Burst and Divine Wrath on a group of held mobs obliterates everything, even orange named champions.
Only Twist of Fate important to me was Energy Burst (12k crits easy). The rest is flavor.

At level 28 I did 200-250 base damage to an unheld mob, with an aditional 50ish sneak attack damage. Even though hp is relatively low, you will still have 35% incorporeal, 50% displace and 28-30% dodge. You can easily hit 100ish prr too.

1 W f: insightful reflex, cf: quicken
2 W
3 W f: pa
4 W
5 W cf: enchant
6 W f: swf
7 W
8 W
9 W f: greater enchant
10 W cf: maximize
11 W
12 W f: iswf
13 W
14 W
15 W f: ic slash, cf: empower
16 W
17 W
18 W f: past life: wizard / extend
19 W
20 W cf: highten
21 E overwhelming
24 E gswf
26 ED pswf
27 E ruin/extend/epic dc - many choices
28 ED ptwf

Since they added BAB to SWF-feat line you may have to swap feat around. No biggie since all the metas can be moved.

[Zachski]

I did a Harper Agent melee Wizard that I enjoyed immensely. I did EE content with it all the way from level 20-28 two times (ETRed first time I capped). Some quest were easy to solo, some quests required a group of two or more players.

Sun Elf (LR +1) or Drow
Max int (20),PA (13 str), the rest in con.
Tier 5 Pale Master for Shroud and DCs, Harper Agent for Melee Power and Know the Angles, Racial Intelligance, all the intelligence you can get, some stuff in Eldritch Knight.
SWF with orb (swap between melee and casting), Enchantment DCs for hold/mass hold.
In gear your milestones are Razorend and Skull of Madness (the one from Gianthold). In epic levels, hp items, int items, spell DC items (get Thunderforged as early as possible).
Destiny: Shadowdancer for evasion. If you're going with medium armor and PRR Magister is ok. Exalted Angel is also really fun. Energy Burst and Divine Wrath on a group of held mobs obliterates everything, even orange named champions.
Only Twist of Fate important to me was Energy Burst (12k crits easy). The rest is flavor.

At level 28 I did 200-250 base damage to an unheld mob, with an aditional 50ish sneak attack damage. Even though hp is relatively low, you will still have 35% incorporeal, 50% displace and 28-30% dodge. You can easily hit 100ish prr too.

1 W f: insightful reflex, cf: quicken
2 W
3 W f: pa
4 W
5 W cf: enchant
6 W f: swf
7 W
8 W
9 W f: greater enchant
10 W cf: maximize
11 W
12 W f: iswf
13 W
14 W
15 W f: ic slash, cf: empower
16 W
17 W
18 W f: past life: wizard / extend
19 W
20 W cf: highten
21 E overwhelming
24 E gswf
26 ED pswf
27 E ruin/extend/epic dc - many choices
28 ED ptwf

Since they added BAB to SWF-feat line you may have to swap feat around. No biggie since all the metas can be moved.

Are you capable of recording gameplay? I'd kinda like to see some of your EE melee Wizard in action

[Enderoc]

If you had access to artificer that sounds more like what you are aiming for. I would even take a feat for heavy armor and go pure if you are talking melee. Or you could splash fighter and go Dwarven Axe arti... I think this one is going to be my next life actually. New Build
18/2 Artificer/Fighter
Dwarf


Level Order

1. Artificer. . . .6. Artificer . . .11. Artificer. . . 16. Artificer
2. Artificer. . . .7. Artificer . . .12. Fighter. . . . 17. Artificer
3. Artificer. . . .8. Artificer . . .13. Artificer. . . 18. Artificer
4. Artificer. . . .9. Fighter . . . .14. Artificer. . . 19. Artificer
5. Artificer. . . 10. Artificer . . .15. Artificer. . . 20. Artificer


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 14. . . .14. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .14. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16. . . .16. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 16. . . .18. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .10. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . 6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . A .A. A .A. A .A. A .A. F .A. A .F. A .A. A .A. A .A. A .A
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Repair. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .1. 1 . . 1 .1. 1 .2. 2 .1. 1 .1. 23
Spellcr . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .1. 2 . . 1 .1. 1 .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Disable . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .2. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .1. 1 . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .3. 1 .1. 23
Search. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .1. 1 . . 1 .1. 2 .1. 2 .1. 1 .1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . .2. 1 . . 1 .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 . . 2 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Balance . . .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .1. 1½ ½. ½ . . ½ .½. ½ .½. ½ .½. 1½. . 11
Jump. . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7. . . . . . . . . . . .1. .9
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .32 .8. 8 .8. 8 .8. 8 .9. 7 .9. 9 .7. 9 .9. 9 10 10 10 10 10


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.4 Arti . : Construct Essence
.6. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.8 Arti . : Maximize Spell
.9. . . . : Quicken Spell
.9 Fighter: Point Blank Shot
12. . . . : Dodge
12 Fighter: Improved Single Weapon Fighting
14 Arti . : Improved Critical: Slashing
15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Precise Shot
18 Arti . : Improved Critical: Ranged
21 Epic . : Mental Toughness
24 Epic . : Improved Mental Toughness
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Mental Toughness
28 Destiny: Holy Strike

[TheWalruss]

TRed out of it long ago but will probably go back to it soonish for SR for eshav. I'll drop a vid when I do.

[Makkuroi]

Since my main is waiting for warlock, i TRed an alt into a warforged acrowiz... 15/5, int-based staffie. Only lvl 5 at the moment, so I cant say much yet, but the idea is 5 rogue for full acrobat, int-based harper, with 15 levels of wiz tacked on for self-healing, buffs, utility spells, and some cc against non-EE stuff.

This would work a lot better on my main because of all of the past lives (3x wiz, 3x sorc, epic and heroic completionist) but im doing ok so far even without a decent staff (I got a theurgists stave waiting at 8). A bit squishy vs champs, but will get mithral body and displacement soon.

[Ghwyn]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...elee-wizard-EK

I found adding ftr levels and using stalwart gives you more str than possible with int. Stalwart goes well with EK.