Looking to TR Elf Bardcher to another flavor of Elven AA

[arnoldwhat]

I'm just getting back in to the game after a pretty hefty break. I've been working on some other toons, and am now looking to TR my mothballed first life Bardcher. I'm not looking for a FoTM, min/max build, something more so that will be fun to play and self sufficient while still having something to offer in a party setting. So here are a few things I'd like to have next life, in order of importance.

1) Bow DPS. I have a bunch of cool bows, and I want to use them.

2) Elven AA, with a spell casting class as a main class for utility/self healing spells.

3) Trapping skills and evasion. Splashing 2 rogue levels for evasion, trapping and UMD.

4) Melee or spell DPS as a backup and/or crowd control

I currently has access to: Drow & Warforged, so Half Elf is off the table. I also have Favored Souls and Artificer, no Druid.

So I've been just thinking of ideas in my free time, I haven't quite gotten to the point of trying things out in a build planner. Just doing research on enhancement trees and feats. He is what I've come up with:

18/2 Elf Wiz/rogue - Main stats: Dex, Int, Con. Trap skills, Good spell DC, Self healing, Status immunity from Pale Master forms. Can use extra wizard feats for meta magic and use regular feats for ranged feats. Cons - Low HP, low BAB so won't be able to front load some feats.

12/6/2 Elf Wiz/Fighter??/Rogue - Same idea as above except we sacrifice wiz levels for more hp/feats/fighter goodness. Not sure if that level split is optimal, 15/3/2 or 13/5/2 may be better.

18/2 Elf Bard/rogue - If I go this path it will be similar to my first life, just bigger and badder. Want to try a new main class however.

18/2 Elf Cleric or FVS/rogue - My main is the old WF FVS, so I know how to build a fighty Favored Soul and I'm familiar with the warpriest tree. The problem I see with this is really only taking the rogue levels for evasion because I fear I wouldn't have enough skill points for trap skills. If I could figure out a way to get say 12 levels of a divine class, at least 2 levels of rogue and still have good trap skills, that would be really cool.

18/2 Elf Artificer/rogue - This by far would be the funkiest build, but I think it would work. It would tick most of my boxes (except melee dps) and would have some great synergy. Bows and xbows use a lot of the same feats, I would have great trap skills, neat spells and a metal dog. My only real concern would be how well I could self heal as an Elf arty? The utility of being able to use repeaters and long bows would be awesome.

So there you have it, some scatterbrained ideas. I don't need a full build write up per se, but just some feed back on what would work best and why. I am capable of making my own build once I have the basic frame work in place. Also, as of now this build will be heroic only, no serious epic questing.

[unbongwah]

TBH, I think you're trying to squeeze too much into one build. Particularly if you don't have monk and/or Harper unlocked.

Bow DPS: a monkcher is still the best choice, meaning a build with at least 6 monk lvls for 10K Stars. Ironically, one of the best archer builds right now is monk 6 / pal 14; I posted an example here. If you do a monkcher / caster hybrid, you're obviously giving up a lot of caster lvls by taking monk 6. But if you don't have 10K Stars, your ranged DPS takes a serious hit.

Melee DPS is feat-intensive; so is ranged DPS. While it's possible to have a build which is good at both (if not necessarily ideal at either), it's tough to do that and have decent spellcasting.

Still, one possibility to consider is a modern revamp of this golden oldie: i.e., rog 2 / rgr 6 / cleric 12 - trapper, TWF+MS, lots of heals from cleric.

[arnoldwhat]

I guess I should be a little more specific, I want bow damage to be my primary source of DPS. From spell casting, I'd want self healing, good buffs, utility spells, and possibly some light CC DC permitting. The 12/6/2 cleric build looks like it could be reworked to be ranged spec rather than TWF. The cleric build is much closer to what i'm looking for compared to the monkarcher. I'm impressed that the trap skills are so good on the cleric build to be honest.

If I'm going Elf for the Elven AA tree, how practical would it be to use dex for damage? I know there are more twink options to boost strength but with what I have currently I feel like dex would be the better option.

[Enoach]

I went with an 8/6/6 Fighter/Monk/Wizard myself

Fighter was for the Feats
Monk for 10K stars
Wizard for defensive buffs (and two Wizard feats - Extend/Mental Toughness)

Now in my opinion for a primary bow user these feats need to be in the build if not going the monkicher route (need a few more then)
1. Point Blank Shot
2. Rapid Shot
3. Precise Shot
4. Weapon Focus: Ranged
5. Bow Strength
6. Improved Precise Shot
7. Manyshot

I would actually recommend if wanting to go with rogue levels to go 12/6/2 Ftr/Wiz/Rog.

You will be able to go with light armor, get the benefit of the extra feats from the Ftr levels as well as the BaB (Needed for Manyshot # of Arrows). 6 Levels of Wizard will give you access to good Defensive buffs as well as the EK tree for the Improved Mage Armor and Shield enhancements as well as at least 1 Elemental Weapon Infusion stance which works with ranged. It will also give you a cleave ability for when you have to use a melee weapon.

You can reduce the fighter levels and move to wizard or rogue but I wouldn't reduce lower than 8 levels to allow you to get all the feats you need for your ranged option

[arnoldwhat]

With 7 base feats from getting to level 20, plus a few Wiz feats, plus 2 bonus fighter feats I should have enough if I go 12+ wiz levels and at least 2 levels of rogue and fighter. With Tensler's I can boost my BAB for manyshot, I'd have good self healing, useful utility spells, and more skill points. I'd be lacking some HP but with an undead form + evasion and good saves I think i'd be able to get away with having slightly less HP.

I really appreciate all of the help guys, especially the list of ranged feats. I'm going to go at least 12 wiz, 2 fighter, 2 rogue and figure the rest out as I go. I think that will give me everything I am looking for. Sure, not a min/max build by a long shot but it will be fun for me. Thanks again guys!

[Enoach]

With 7 base feats from getting to level 20, plus a few Wiz feats, plus 2 bonus fighter feats I should have enough if I go 12+ wiz levels and at least 2 levels of rogue and fighter. With Tensler's I can boost my BAB for manyshot, I'd have good self healing, useful utility spells, and more skill points. I'd be lacking some HP but with an undead form + evasion and good saves I think i'd be able to get away with having slightly less HP.

I really appreciate all of the help guys, especially the list of ranged feats. I'm going to go at least 12 wiz, 2 fighter, 2 rogue and figure the rest out as I go. I think that will give me everything I am looking for. Sure, not a min/max build by a long shot but it will be fun for me. Thanks again guys!

just be careful to make sure you can grab feats at levels that have Attribute/BaB pre-reqs.

[JBS]

Another option for you would be a RS AA - 2 Monk - 18 Cleric - your aura is perfect self healing - with zen archery you only have to have dex to qualify for many shot.

Jules