Thief Acrobat with Harper Tree

[SirWolfKnight]

My plan was to make a 20 Rogue Thief Acrobat.

After looking at each race I picked half orc because of their racial that boost two handed fighting and thought it would be good with the harper versatile combat and know the angles

I then remembered the rest of the harper tree and I instantly wondered if a drow Thief Acrobat with full intelligence with strategic combat could out dps my half orc. And would make a better rogue in general.

The question is weather Half Orc or Drow with Strategic Combat will have higher dps in the long run?

[Enderoc]

To do Harper, Acrobat, and Racial enhancements to make the most of what you are trying to do might fall short in Ability points.

[unbongwah]

So let's look at max-STR HO vs max-INT drow; for simplicity's sake, I'm gonna ignore gear, tome, etc. bonuses (on the presumption that stuff basically evens out in the long run) and just focus on inherent abilities plus ED bonuses.

HO: base STR 20 + 7 lvl-ups + 2 HO enhs + 2 Acrobat enhs + 2 Acro capstone + 5 Primal Scream = 38 STR (+14 mod) -> +21 dmg
drow: base INT 20 + 7 lvl-ups + 2 drow enhs + 2 Assassin enhs + 1 Mechanic enh = 32 INT (+11 mod) -> 16.5 dmg

So all things being equal (apart from a tier-1 Twist), the HO starts out with a DPS advantage. Now lets presume the HO maxes out Imp Power Atk (+3 dmg) and Orcish Training (+6 dmg), so they sit at a base dmg of +30 dmg. How much INT do they need to close that gap? The KtA formula is you need INT (10 + 4x), where x is the desired dmg mod. So bearing in mind the HO has a max 6-pt advantage in STR over INT drow, what if we compared, say, STR 72 vs INT 66?

STR 72 (+31 mod): 46.5 dmg + 9 dmg HO enhs = 55.5 dmg
INT 66 (+28 mod): 42 dmg + 14 dmg KtA = 56 dmg

So for pretty high INT values, the drow pulls ahead, even with the HO's 6-pt advantage to STR. So then the question becomes: can you actually get your INT that high? +11 enhancement, +4 insightful, +6 tome, +2 Yugo pot, +2 ship buff, +2 Profane (eLitany) - that's still "only" +27, which gets you to INT 58-60.

Of course, that's a pretty simplified example; I haven't even considered a STR+INT-based HO w/yet, who had max STR and, e.g., INT 34 for +6 dmg from KtA. Nor does it factor in any other DPS bonuses, like Brutality; or what you have to give up from other PrEs by spending so much in the HO racial tree.

[SirWolfKnight]

So let's look at max-STR HO vs max-INT drow; for simplicity's sake, I'm gonna ignore gear, tome, etc. bonuses (on the presumption that stuff basically evens out in the long run) and just focus on inherent abilities plus ED bonuses.

HO: base STR 20 + 7 lvl-ups + 2 HO enhs + 2 Acrobat enhs + 2 Acro capstone + 5 Primal Scream = 38 STR (+14 mod) -> +21 dmg
drow: base INT 20 + 7 lvl-ups + 2 drow enhs + 2 Assassin enhs + 1 Mechanic enh = 32 INT (+11 mod) -> 16.5 dmg

So all things being equal (apart from a tier-1 Twist), the HO starts out with a DPS advantage. Now lets presume the HO maxes out Imp Power Atk (+3 dmg) and Orcish Training (+6 dmg), so they sit at a base dmg of +30 dmg. How much INT do they need to close that gap? The KtA formula is you need INT (10 + 4x), where x is the desired dmg mod. So bearing in mind the HO has a max 6-pt advantage in STR over INT drow, what if we compared, say, STR 72 vs INT 66?

STR 72 (+31 mod): 46.5 dmg + 9 dmg HO enhs = 55.5 dmg
INT 66 (+28 mod): 42 dmg + 14 dmg KtA = 56 dmg

So for pretty high INT values, the drow pulls ahead, even with the HO's 6-pt advantage to STR. So then the question becomes: can you actually get your INT that high? +11 enhancement, +4 insightful, +6 tome, +2 Yugo pot, +2 ship buff, +2 Profane (eLitany) - that's still "only" +27, which gets you to INT 58-60.

Of course, that's a pretty simplified example; I haven't even considered a STR+INT-based HO w/yet, who had max STR and, e.g., INT 34 for +6 dmg from KtA. Nor does it factor in any other DPS bonuses, like Brutality; or what you have to give up from other PrEs by spending so much in the HO racial tree.

That is interesting I am going to try to calculate the possible damage up using the build I have in mind for Thief Acrobat and ignore destinies cause I only learned about them after looking up what primal scream was.

Also, I wasn't sure why you were removing 5 from the ability modifiers.

Starting Stats:
28 pnt build
HO: 18/14/14/12/8/6
IntDrow: 13/13/14/18/8/10 Using Strategic Combat
DexDrow: 13/18/14/13/8/10 Using Thief Acrobat Cores

Stat Boosts:
As far as know the best stat buff on a item for stats is +11 and will use that and I don't know about other buffs from items that you used in your calculations.
HO: +7 Lvlups +2 Racial Tree +11 Enchant +2 FollowThrough +2 Acrobat = +24
Int Drow: +7 Lvlups +2 Racial Tree +11 Enchant +4 Harper Tree = +24
Dex Drow: +7 Lvlups +2 Racial Tree +11 Enchant +2 FollowThrough +2 Acrobat= +24

HO: 42/25/25/23/19/17
IntDrow: 24/24/25/42/19/21
DexDrow: 24/42/25/25/19/21

Dmg Boosts:
HO: +(21) StrMod +5 Orcish Training +3 Power Attack +3 Versatile Adept +(5.75) KtA= 38
Int Drow: +(21) IntMod +9 Versatile Adept +(10.5) KtA= 41
Dex Drow: +(21) DexMod +3 Versatile Adept + (6.25) KtA= 31

With the -5 to Mods:
HO: +16 StrMod +11 + (4.5) KtA = 31.5
HO: +16 IntMod +9 + (8) KtA = 33
HO: +16 DexMod +3 + (5) KtA = 24

I am not sure if I did the calculations correctly, but according to them Int based Drow would out damage the HO and a Dex. However, this is excluding feats which I got no clue how which to even pick on the different builds and am missing other types of information.

In the end would high Int, Dex, or Str build be better in the long run not just taking dmg into account?
Also, Does KtA work with Strategic Combat?