Seeking members with no life...

[Orakamoro]

This is my DDO story: I have known about this game for around 2 years but never played.(Yes I know it existed before that number of years). About 2 months ago my girlfriend (Perenia) fully introduced me to the game and I fell in love. Then she introduced me to her guild Nightshade which was sadly inactive.(only 4 members at that time). She had no knowledge about renown and how the amount of members effects things in a drastic way so when she brought me into the guild to bring in members we had no clue that a small guild of dedicated players that love the game and will spend all there available hours playing is the best way to go.
I need to fill at least 2 spots.
Further information about the guild is available only upon request because I feel if you are serious you will go through the trouble to send me a proper message through DDO.

[TrinityTurtle]

This is my DDO story: I have known about this game for around 2 years but never played.(Yes I know it existed before that number of years). About 2 months ago my girlfriend (Perenia) fully introduced me to the game and I fell in love. Then she introduced me to her guild Nightshade which was sadly inactive.(only 4 members at that time). She had no knowledge about renown and how the amount of members effects things in a drastic way so when she brought me into the guild to bring in members we had no clue that a small guild of dedicated players that love the game and will spend all there available hours playing is the best way to go.
I need to fill at least 2 spots.
Further information about the guild is available only upon request because I feel if you are serious you will go through the trouble to send me a proper message through DDO.

With the caveat that this is your guild, run it how you like, I just wanted to point out this isn't 100% true. Unless you are worried about vanity levels, (151-200, where the ONLY thing you get is the color of your guild name), there is no decay, all renown earned is positive, nothing taking it away, and a large active group can earn far more than a small active group. So a large number of active players will still pull in more total renown now than a small group with 'big number' bonuses. Example: Six players pull in a 4k legendary renown once a day, that's 24,000. 30 players pull in the same bonus at 1000 once a day, that's 30,000. Plus all the kill and other renown they pull out of a chest all those players are pulling in.

[Orakamoro]

With the caveat that this is your guild, run it how you like, I just wanted to point out this isn't 100% true. Unless you are worried about vanity levels, (151-200, where the ONLY thing you get is the color of your guild name), there is no decay, all renown earned is positive, nothing taking it away, and a large active group can earn far more than a small active group. So a large number of active players will still pull in more total renown now than a small group with 'big number' bonuses. Example: Six players pull in a 4k legendary renown once a day, that's 24,000. 30 players pull in the same bonus at 1000 once a day, that's 30,000. Plus all the kill and other renown they pull out of a chest all those players are pulling in.

I appreciate your input and it makes sense. Thank you.

[TrinityTurtle]

I appreciate your input and it makes sense. Thank you.

Second caveat: In case it looked like I was putting down vanity levels, I'm not, my statement about them was if they are a concern for you the rest of my advice was potentially not helpful. LOL Unless you have a large active guild. I'm in a large one, somewhere over 50 minimum, and we're still gaining levels at a steady rate and are way up in the vanity. So it's still possible too.

But it's your guild, and there is nothing wrong with a small intimate guild of people on the same page either, I just wanted to mention options. : )

[Orakamoro]

Second caveat: In case it looked like I was putting down vanity levels, I'm not, my statement about them was if they are a concern for you the rest of my advice was potentially not helpful. LOL Unless you have a large active guild. I'm in a large one, somewhere over 50 minimum, and we're still gaining levels at a steady rate and are way up in the vanity. So it's still possible too.

But it's your guild, and there is nothing wrong with a small intimate guild of people on the same page either, I just wanted to mention options. : )

I have been at this game for only about a month. The advice of someone who has been around for a while is valuable to me.
A small guild seems like it would be to difficult to ever get anyone together at the same time. Far easier with more people.

[FranOhmsford]

With the caveat that this is your guild, run it how you like, I just wanted to point out this isn't 100% true. Unless you are worried about vanity levels, (151-200, where the ONLY thing you get is the color of your guild name), there is no decay, all renown earned is positive, nothing taking it away, and a large active group can earn far more than a small active group. So a large number of active players will still pull in more total renown now than a small group with 'big number' bonuses. Example: Six players pull in a 4k legendary renown once a day, that's 24,000. 30 players pull in the same bonus at 1000 once a day, that's 30,000. Plus all the kill and other renown they pull out of a chest all those players are pulling in.

But even the largest Guilds tend to have far more inactives and casuals than truly active players!

A 6 account guild of fully active players will earn renown far faster than a 70 account guild with 30 semi-active players and 6 fully active players!

Just to reach Guild Level 100 requires 50 million renown! {add another 50 million to reach 150 upon which you can simply forget about Guild Levelling!}.

A 6 account Guild running Heroic GH Saga once per day without using a pot will earn 360k per day
6 players in a 30 account Guild running Heroic GH Saga once per day without using a pot will only manage 90k per day and no way will the other 24 account for 250k plus!


And one of the biggest problems for new guilds is finding fully active players {the vast majority of invitees even from forum adverts will be only semi active at best!}.


Even if you don't run Sagas - The 6 account fully active guild will easily outlevel all but the strongest of 30+ member Guilds and will have no trouble outlevelling Guilds with between 7 and 29 accounts!


Remember only a few Guilds can safely say they have even 40 Active Players {and the vast majority of those won't be daily players!}.

[jalont]

If you're into leveling a guild quickly, and you're completely dedicated to it, I still think a small guild is better than a large one. Large guilds accumulate renown quickly but are tougher to manage. If you bring in too many people and break your small guild bonus, chances are that you'll have people that don't pull their weight. It's just the nature of DDO. You're not going to find very many dedicated players without a current guild.

[TrinityTurtle]

But even the largest Guilds tend to have far more inactives and casuals than truly active players!

A 6 account guild of fully active players will earn renown far faster than a 70 account guild with 30 semi-active players and 6 fully active players!

Just to reach Guild Level 100 requires 50 million renown! {add another 50 million to reach 150 upon which you can simply forget about Guild Levelling!}.

There is no such thing as 'you can simply forget about guild leveling. There used to be, when decay hit every guild and you had to manage decay vs. gain, but after the change this has changed. There are a large amount of guilds at all sizes in the vamity levels which are 151+. As long as members are active, earning renown (active in this context means questing, members who play a lot but spend a huge amount of their play time in the taverns or waiting for other people to start groups aren't earning renown for growth for example). The best advice I can give you if you want to shoot for a large number of people is play with them, get to know them, make friends, and then decide if you want them in your guild.

A 6 account Guild running Heroic GH Saga once per day without using a pot will earn 360k per day
6 players in a 30 account Guild running Heroic GH Saga once per day without using a pot will only manage 90k per day and no way will the other 24 account for 250k plus!

However, if all 30 of those players ran gianthold a day (and most guilds don't actually sit around running the same saga every day Orakamo, don't let this comparison create an illusion that guild leveling is painful, it's not) then you would gain 450,000 a day. And every guild is different. I have been in 30+ account guidls with 80% activity rates. As I told him, run his guild as it pleases him, but there is no hardline small or large is better. Although if you want to do guild only raids, you'll want to shot for 12 people. And in the example fran mentioned, the players in the larger guild not using pots is probably a more realistic scenario, as pots are very rare drops in chests, daily dice, or cost actual money. So again, personally I would go with the more active people running option for faster sustainable gain.

Remember only a few Guilds can safely say they have even 40 Active Players {and the vast majority of those won't be daily players!}.

So I keep seeing written on the forums, and yet see a different story actually in game.

[FranOhmsford]

There is no such thing as 'you can simply forget about guild leveling. There used to be, when decay hit every guild and you had to manage decay vs. gain, but after the change this has changed. There are a large amount of guilds at all sizes in the vamity levels which are 151+. As long as members are active, earning renown (active in this context means questing, members who play a lot but spend a huge amount of their play time in the taverns or waiting for other people to start groups aren't earning renown for growth for example). The best advice I can give you if you want to shoot for a large number of people is play with them, get to know them, make friends, and then decide if you want them in your guild.

You've got the wrong end of the stick here.

"Forget" in the context of my post was in that once you hit 150 there's no reason to make any extra effort to collect renown as those levels are as you've said...Vanity levels only!

Over time - So long as you're earning even 1 renown per day more than the Guild Decay for your level {which only clicks in at 151 I believe?} you're going to continue to level your Guild!

[FranOhmsford]

So I keep seeing written on the forums, and yet see a different story actually in game.

OK then - How many active accounts does High Lords currently sit at?

How many inactive accounts?

How many characters logged on in the past 36 hrs?

How many of those characters that were logged on in that time period were alts of another character logged on in the same period?

Can you truly say that more than 40 High Lords PLAYERS {Not Characters} are actually Active DAILY?
And of the other Big Sarlona Guilds - Do ANY of them have a stronger Daily Active Player base than High Lords? {Bathory Hordes maybe? - E M P I R E possibly?}.

[TrinityTurtle]

OK then - How many active accounts does High Lords currently sit at?

How many inactive accounts?

How many characters logged on in the past 36 hrs?

How many of those characters that were logged on in that time period were alts of another character logged on in the same period?

Can you truly say that more than 40 High Lords PLAYERS {Not Characters} are actually Active DAILY?
And of the other Big Sarlona Guilds - Do ANY of them have a stronger Daily Active Player base than High Lords? {Bathory Hordes maybe? - E M P I R E possibly?}.

Yes, I can. IT's a lot of people, not the same ones on alts, lots of active people. Heck the other night we had nearly 30 on at the same time. My old guild was 30, with 28 being active. My personal activity is a wide range of times, I've been active in the morning, afternoon, evenings, and during an unfortunate stomach flue sleep wasn't happening incident middle of my night, and there were a lot of people, and not the same ones I talk to from other times.

I have no information at all about the membership or activity levels of bathory or EMPIRE, so I cannot reasonably comment on them at all. It's all about what you put into a guild. Guilds that are highly socially active and not just a bunch of people in a guild for buffs who don't interact tend to have more involvement and activity. Engagement attracts people. Guilds that get to know members and befriend them before inviting them seem to do better than mass invite guilds where no one really knows anyone and they don't interact much.

Limiting a new player by telling him he can't before he even tries, when there are several people who do, isn't something I want to see happen. We have no idea what sort of work he will put into his guild, and he may very well create a large happy active guild. It is possible, it does exist now, and I say go for whatever makes him happy.

[downwithpeace]

A small guild seems like it would be to difficult to ever get anyone together at the same time. Far easier with more people.

I'm in a small guild and found arranging a group night was a good start, we setup a night and start time that would suit most people and still allow for those who can't always make it to drop in or out as they needed. After a while people we either know personally or ran quests with on and off started to join us more and more until we had members from three other small guilds running with us on our group night. Now if anyone from any of the four guilds is on they tend to run stuff together.

[FranOhmsford]

Yes, I can. IT's a lot of people, not the same ones on alts, lots of active people. Heck the other night we had nearly 30 on at the same time. My old guild was 30, with 28 being active. My personal activity is a wide range of times, I've been active in the morning, afternoon, evenings, and during an unfortunate stomach flue sleep wasn't happening incident middle of my night, and there were a lot of people, and not the same ones I talk to from other times.

That's great!

But for my Guild threads I spend a lot of time running down the Who lists on Sarlona and High Lords and Bathory particularly are very very active Guilds.

I put this down to having a lot of members and it seems that may be the correct assumption.

95% of Guilds unfortunately don't even come close to those numbers!

30 Players with 28 being Active is an astonishing success rate and must have required serious hard work from the leader to maintain!

I have no information at all about the membership or activity levels of bathory or EMPIRE, so I cannot reasonably comment on them at all. It's all about what you put into a guild. Guilds that are highly socially active and not just a bunch of people in a guild for buffs who don't interact tend to have more involvement and activity. Engagement attracts people. Guilds that get to know members and befriend them before inviting them seem to do better than mass invite guilds where no one really knows anyone and they don't interact much.

E M P I R E may have had a recruiting drive recently {I'm guessing here} but their numbers also tend to be higher than the average.

What do these 3 Guilds have in common?
They're all Lvl 150+


As for Mass Invite Guilds - Some do very well indeed but it's a hard slog and tends to require massive maintenance work and constant inviting to keep that critical mass as most newbies vanish within a week!

There's also a good chance that they'll start out fast but then die and have to be rebuilt.

Limiting a new player by telling him he can't before he even tries, when there are several people who do, isn't something I want to see happen. We have no idea what sort of work he will put into his guild, and he may very well create a large happy active guild. It is possible, it does exist now, and I say go for whatever makes him happy.

This is where you're assuming the worst - I didn't tell the OP anything of the sort...I simply warned the OP of some of the Pitfalls.

[Bloodskittle]

That's great!

But for my Guild threads I spend a lot of time running down the Who lists on Sarlona and High Lords and Bathory particularly are very very active Guilds.

Scrolling the who list is an incredibly inaccurate way to check up on guild activity, in some guilds a large percentage of the population of that guild run around anonymous for various reasons. That said, in your example its fine, but on the other side of the coin it is a terrible way to judge a guilds activity if you only see one or two of a particular guild logged on.

[Orakamoro]

I bow to all that have passed along there knowledge.
Going for large numbers of players. Inactive more than 2 weeks and you are gone. I understand this may cause a decay but in the long run I feel I can weed out the "every once in a great whiles".

NightShade is now at lvl 15 with 62 members. 23 members inactive for over 2 weeks handful of those are over 3.

I suggest one of you guild masters help me out by joining the guild for a bit and doing what needs to be done (while teaching me in the process).

[Ancient]

It may be time to take a break. I'm on one now and having fun in a different game.

[TrinityTurtle]

I bow to all that have passed along there knowledge.
Going for large numbers of players. Inactive more than 2 weeks and you are gone. I understand this may cause a decay but in the long run I feel I can weed out the "every once in a great whiles".

NightShade is now at lvl 15 with 62 members. 23 members inactive for over 2 weeks handful of those are over 3.

I suggest one of you guild masters help me out by joining the guild for a bit and doing what needs to be done (while teaching me in the process).

One think to be careful about when you weed out inactive players, make sure you keep lists of people's alts. "Inactive" is defined purely by account, so if you leave some toons for someone in the guild, they are still counting. And the guild list has no way to alert people whose alts belong to who (would be nice, but it doesn't currently) so guilds who want to remove inactives need to keep track of who is who. Example: I rarely my play toon Sierrann because I really disliked the pale master experience, if my guild booted her based on her last login date of 4 months ago, it would take a cut of the renown she arned, and have no other effect on the guild because my account is still a part with my active toons, and no decay lowering took place with Sierrann gone.

If you have only a few people with the ability to guild people, tik's pretty easy to create a shared excel sheet on google docs with a password for the guild officers to access it and keep a list of alts for this purpose.

[TheWalruss]

I leveled my guild from somewhere in the 70s to somewhere in the early 100s on my own. I go through the list of unguilded people online and send them a tell to help me get a higher renown bonus. All they have to do is join. I do this until I have 6 accounts in my guild. Then I farm renown on my own.

When they have been inactive for 1 month I just remove them. That gives me another 14 days.

Getting active players who would rather help you level your guild than build their own is very rare. For the past couple years I've had 1 guildie who logged on and wanted to play and was happy to contribute with renown - even taking sagas for renown.

If you want to recruit people for an intimate guild, your chances of getting serious recruits are bigger if you put an ad in your local newspaper or ask friends and family through social media.

If that doesn't put out any numbers, pronatalism is your last resort :-)

[Stormraiser]

But even the largest Guilds tend to have far more inactives and casuals than truly active players!

A 6 account guild of fully active players will earn renown far faster than a 70 account guild with 30 semi-active players and 6 fully active players!

Just to reach Guild Level 100 requires 50 million renown! {add another 50 million to reach 150 upon which you can simply forget about Guild Levelling!}.

A 6 account Guild running Heroic GH Saga once per day without using a pot will earn 360k per day
6 players in a 30 account Guild running Heroic GH Saga once per day without using a pot will only manage 90k per day and no way will the other 24 account for 250k plus!


And one of the biggest problems for new guilds is finding fully active players {the vast majority of invitees even from forum adverts will be only semi active at best!}.


Even if you don't run Sagas - The 6 account fully active guild will easily outlevel all but the strongest of 30+ member Guilds and will have no trouble outlevelling Guilds with between 7 and 29 accounts!


Remember only a few Guilds can safely say they have even 40 Active Players {and the vast majority of those won't be daily players!}.

Eight sentences and eight exclamation points. Please calm down... seriously, everything is okay. Nothing is burning, the person was just asking for basic suggestions.

And please stop saying the word "casuals" the English language is offended.

Stormraiser

[Stormraiser]

This is my DDO story: I have known about this game for around 2 years but never played.(Yes I know it existed before that number of years). About 2 months ago my girlfriend (Perenia) fully introduced me to the game and I fell in love. Then she introduced me to her guild Nightshade which was sadly inactive.(only 4 members at that time). She had no knowledge about renown and how the amount of members effects things in a drastic way so when she brought me into the guild to bring in members we had no clue that a small guild of dedicated players that love the game and will spend all there available hours playing is the best way to go.
I need to fill at least 2 spots.
Further information about the guild is available only upon request because I feel if you are serious you will go through the trouble to send me a proper message through DDO.

Just a suggestion Orakamoro, in recruiting guildmates, you clearly want to label your play times, your login frequency, which part of the game you typically play, epic TRing, heroic TRing, raiding, speed running, etc.

The best thing to find, would be those who want to do the same things you do.