Trying to figure charisma and spell DC for a sorcerer

[Such755]

Hello
I am trying to set up my final life for my caster character. I want him to be a DC based sorcerer, main focus is necromancy, secondary evocation and enchantment, when it can work.

I hear about people who hit over 70 charisma and nearly 70 necro DC I never understand how. This is what I've got so far, for a drow sorcerer (Note: I will not include epic or non epic Litany, because the chances of me getting either are close to zero):

20 starting charisma
7 - levelups
6 - tome
2 - drow enhancement tree
2 - air savant tree
2 - water savant tree
2 - ship buff
2 - lasting ability potion from remnant turn in
2 - Great charisma feats
1 - excaptional
3 - insightful
11 - item
6 - Epic destiny (Exalted angel)
2 - yugo potion
1 - twist (To make it even)

That's a total of only 62 - still far from the 70+ I keep hearing about, even if I had the epic Litany, that would only bring it to 64

Spell DC:
10 - base
9 - Spell level with heighten
26 - Charisma mod
1 - Spell focus: Necro
1 - Greater spell focus: Necro
1 - Past life: Wizard
6 - Thunderforged orb
3 - Exalted angel core
3 - Necromancy specialist twist from Magister

Total of: 60 necro DC

Evocation:
10 - base
9 - Spell level with heighten
26 - Charisma mod
1 - Past life: Wizard
5 - Sage's locket
3 - Exalted angel core
3 - Sorcerer past life
1 - Air savant enhancement

Total of: 58 evocation DC


Now I've seen a few sorcerers just absolutely dominating epic elite gianthold, epic elite orchard and epic elite storm horns with their necromancy spells, evocation, enchantment, and hell - even their Phantasmal killer worked!

So please tell me, what am I missing here?

[SirValentine]

20 starting charisma
7 - levelups
6 - tome
2 - drow enhancement tree
2 - air savant tree
2 - water savant tree
2 - ship buff
2 - lasting ability potion from remnant turn in
2 - Great charisma feats
1 - excaptional
3 - insightful
11 - item
6 - Epic destiny (Exalted angel)
2 - yugo potion
1 - twist (To make it even)

That's a total of only 62 - still far from the 70+ I keep hearing about, even if I had the epic Litany, that would only bring it to 64

2 - Completionist
2 - more from Exalted Angel (Angelic Presence core)
2 - more from twists
3 - more from enhancements (E.g., Drow 6 for 2, Harper 6 for 1, Savant 41 for 4, Savant 22 for 2, 5 left over)
--
9 more than 64 = 73 = +31 bonus

Spell DC:
10 - base
9 - Spell level with heighten
26 - Charisma mod
1 - Spell focus: Necro
1 - Greater spell focus: Necro
1 - Past life: Wizard
6 - Thunderforged orb
3 - Exalted angel core
3 - Necromancy specialist twist from Magister

Total of: 60 necro DC

2 - Augment
1 - Epic Spell Focus
1 - Ship Buff
1 - Shadowscale
1 - 2-hander TF
5 - +31 instead of +26 Cha mod
--
11 more than 60 = 71 total Necro DC

[SirValentine]

Note: I will not include epic or non epic Litany, because the chances of me getting either are close to zero

Are you on Wayfinder? Because I'd think on any other server, Mark of Death should still get run enough for you to eventually rack up 20 completions.

[Such755]

2 - Completionist
2 - more from Exalted Angel (Angelic Presence core)
2 - more from twists
3 - more from enhancements (E.g., Drow 6 for 2, Harper 6 for 1, Savant 41 for 4, Savant 22 for 2, 5 left over)
--
9 more than 64 = 73 = +31 bonus




2 - Augment
1 - Epic Spell Focus
1 - Ship Buff
1 - Shadowscale
1 - 2-hander TF
5 - +31 instead of +26 Cha mod
--
11 more than 60 = 71 total Necro DC

So all 3 twists will go on charisma? Is that not a waste? What about cocoon?
I don't understand the "more from enhancements" part, I already included all from drow and savants
Also, not gonna be completionist

As for the augments: epic spell focus will cost an epic charisma, doesn't make sense.
What's the augment?
2 hander? shouldn't the other hand hold a +7 spell pen or maybe +6 enchant ?

[cru121]

I don't understand the "more from enhancements" part, I already included all from drow and savants

What's the augment?

You can get 2 more charisma from the tier 6 core enhancement (capstone) for one of your savant trees (assuming you're a sorcerer 20).
You can get 2 more charisma from the Harper Agent enhancement tree.

Yellow augments offer Insightful bonus to spell DC, available in +1 and +2 variants, for all schools. You can get the +2 variety from GH traders.

[Chi_Ryu]

I hear about people who hit over 70 charisma and nearly 70 necro DC I never understand how.

By re-checking your arithmetic. Additional bonuses for being Completionist and Epic Completionist., having an Epic Litany of the Dead and Epic Deific Diadem.

20 starting charisma
7 - levelups
6 - tome
2 - drow enhancement tree
2 - air savant tree
2 - water savant tree
2 - ship buff
2 - lasting ability potion from remnant turn in
2 - Great charisma feats
1 - excaptional
3 - insightful
11 - item
6 - Epic destiny (Exalted angel)
2 - yugo potion
1 - twist (To make it even)

Your Arithmetic is faulty, that makes 69 Charisma already.

Now add:
+2 Completionist
+2 Savant capstone
+2 Angelic Presence (Exalted Angel core 3)
+1 Harper
+2 Epic Litany of the Dead

...and you have Charisma of 78. 81 if you factor in short-term House K potions of Influence, but that's not sustainable.

Spell DC:
10 - base
9 - Spell level with heighten
26 - Charisma mod
1 - Spell focus: Necro
1 - Greater spell focus: Necro
1 - Past life: Wizard
6 - Thunderforged orb
3 - Exalted angel core
3 - Necromancy specialist twist from Magister

Total of: 60 necro DC

+8 from having 78Cha instead of 62Cha.
+2 Topaz of Greater Necromancy
+1 - Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy (level 27 if you want to keep the Epic Charisma at 21 and 24, but hat has tradeoffs - no Ruin)
+1 - Archwizard Ship Buff
+1 - Flawless Shadowscale with Shadow Caster

That's DC 73. 74 with House K pots, 75 if you forgo maxing Evo and use a two-handed TF, as SirValentine has already said. 77 if you have the Epic Deific Diadem.

Evocation:
10 - base
9 - Spell level with heighten
26 - Charisma mod
1 - Past life: Wizard
5 - Sage's locket
3 - Exalted angel core
3 - Sorcerer past life
1 - Air savant enhancement

Total of: 58 evocation DC

+8 from having 78Cha instead of 62Cha.
+2 Topaz of Greater Evocation
+2 Twist Precise Casting: Evocation from Draconic Incarnation (T2).
+1 Archwizard Ship Buff
+1 Flawless Shadowscale with Shadow Caster
+1 for Thunderforged T2 stick instead of Sage's Locket.

That's also DC 73. 74 with House K pots, 75 if you wanted the tedium of swapping weapons each time you want to max Evo and use a two-handed TF specced for Evo. 77 if you have the Epic Deific Diadem.

You'll have use up 2 x T2 twists and 1 x T1 twist, so you'll only get Rejuvenation Coccoon if you are Epic Completionist.

Now, if you rule out Mark of Death raidloot, and the completionist and Epic completionist PLs, and dual wield single-handed caster sticks for Evo and Necro, then that makes Necro and Evo DC of 71. Still lots of tradeoffs there though (like taking 6 points of Charisma in Exalted Angel).

[count_spicoli]

If you are aiming for a necro caster why not wizzy? You will be able to achieve a much higher necro dc on wizzy. And why exalted angerl over draconic?

[Chi_Ryu]

And why exalted angerl over draconic?

Because Exalted Angel has innate +3 to all spell DCs and +2 to Charisma (when over 50% HP), and allows Charisma during level ups, just like Draconic Incarnation.

The only DC-interesting bit of DI (T2 +2 Evo or Enchantment, T1 +3DC to Fear-based spells) is twistable.

[count_spicoli]

In that case if your gonna sacrafice all the draconic dmg stuff to be in exalted angel just for dc's than you should definatly be a wizzy. THe mass hold +sense weakness+enegry burst or dragon breath is just to good to pass up. ON my wizzy with a 74(and thats not fully maxxed yet) i can still nuke for 10000-16000 on groups fo mobs.

[Chi_Ryu]

In that case if your gonna sacrafice all the draconic dmg stuff to be in exalted angel just for dc's than you should definatly be a wizzy. THe mass hold +sense weakness+enegry burst or dragon breath is just to good to pass up. ON my wizzy with a 74(and thats not fully maxxed yet) i can still nuke for 10000-16000 on groups fo mobs.

...that's peak damage when Energy Burst is off cooldown.

You also lose the cheap elemental SLAs, around 40 spell power in your two elements, no Awaken Elemental weakness, 3% less critical hit chances for your specialism, 6 less increased caster levels and max caster levels, no synergy with EA as it has no Int option, the increased spellpoints, etc.

And most importantly, the OP asked for a Sorcerer build, not a Wizard.

[Wizza]

In that case if your gonna sacrafice all the draconic dmg stuff to be in exalted angel just for dc's than you should definatly be a wizzy. THe mass hold +sense weakness+enegry burst or dragon breath is just to good to pass up. ON my wizzy with a 74(and thats not fully maxxed yet) i can still nuke for 10000-16000 on groups fo mobs.

Sorcerers can do what Wizards do better and faster.

[SirValentine]

So all 3 twists will go on charisma? Is that not a waste?

I'm not trying to tell you what you "should" do, just list what you are potentially missing. That was what you asked, right?

Using 3 of 4 potential twists for Cha will get you a higher total Cha and DC.

As for Cocoon, you have access to multiple healing SLAs from EA.

I don't understand the "more from enhancements" part, I already included all from drow and savants

Harper is favor-unlockable. And there's a Savant capstone you didn't include.

2 hander? shouldn't the other hand hold a +7 spell pen or maybe +6 enchant ?

2-hander grants +1 to all your spells. A 2-hander Necro stick and, say, the Sage's Cloak or Locket, gives you 1 more Necro and just as much Enchantment or Evoc as a pair of 1-hander Necro & Enchant or Evoc sticks.

If you were worried about max Spell Pen, you wouldn't be running in EA anyway, right? A max Spell Pen setup for those pesky EE Drow may well have not just different gear, but also different destiny & twists than a max DC setup, which you can happily use in places without Drow.

[SirValentine]

By re-checking your arithmetic.

Your Arithmetic is faulty, that makes 69 Charisma already.

Heh, nice catch. I didn't even bother checking his figures.

[Eth]

In that case if your gonna sacrafice all the draconic dmg stuff to be in exalted angel just for dc's than you should definatly be a wizzy. THe mass hold +sense weakness+enegry burst or dragon breath is just to good to pass up. ON my wizzy with a 74(and thats not fully maxxed yet) i can still nuke for 10000-16000 on groups fo mobs.

I can only speak from own experience here having played both, but I really found a Sorc in EA does more DPS than a wizard in DI and is much more SP efficient while doing so.

[Such755]

I did miss out on a few things, but some of you guys added some confusing information.
Like I said, I will not have completionist or epic litany of the dead. If one day I get the litany, then great. But I don't see it happening anytime in the near future. I'm also not including short term buffs.

Let's see if I got this right now
Charisma:

20 - base
7 - levels
6 - tome
2 - drow enhancement
2 - air savant
2 - water savant
2 - Capstone
2 - ship buff
2 - remnant potion
2 - Yogo potion
2 - Great charisma feats
1 - excaptional
3 - insightful
11 - item
2 - Angelic presence
1 - twist
1 - harper
6 - Exalted angel
74 total charisma

General spell focus:
32 - Charisma mod
10 - base
9 - levels
1 - wiz past life
3 - Exalted angle
1 - Thunderforged staff
1 - ship buff
1 - shadowscale armor
Total of 58 DC

Illusion:
+4 item
62 DC

Enchantment:
+5 item
+2 yellow slot
65 DC

Evocation:
+5 item
+2 yellow slot
+3 past life: Sorcerer
68 DC

Necromancy:
1 - Spell Focus
1 - Greater Spell Focus
1 - epic spell focus
3 - Necromancy specialist twist
6 - Thunderforged staff
2 - yellow augment

72 DC

With those numbers I can see how it works, tell me if I made any errors here.

[Iaga]

I hear about people who hit over 70 charisma and nearly 70 necro DC I never understand how. This is what I've got so far, for a drow sorcerer (Note: I will not include epic or non epic Litany, because the chances of me getting either are close to zero):

Check out this thread

[Chi_Ryu]

I did miss out on a few things, but some of you guys added some confusing information.

Well, you were asking how people got high Cha/DCs...

Your calculations look pretty good to me now, with the following possibilities for improvement:

Illusion:
+4 item
62 DC

If you can find space on your gear (and if you are wearing lots of Necro IV equipment, you should be able to ), you could slot the Topaz of Greater Illusion to make this 64.

Evocation:
+5 item
+2 yellow slot
+3 past life: Sorcerer
68 DC

If you can fit in Spell Focus: Evocation in your build, then you could get +2 from twisting Precise Casting: Evocation from Draconic Incarnation (T2) to make it 70DC

[count_spicoli]

Sorcerers can do what Wizards do better and faster.

Uh no. Nothing dies faster than instant and a well built wizzy will always be better at this. Not only will your necro dc always be higher you get a bonus energy drain sla thrown in for kicks. As far as nuking a mass hold and energy burst even on a well built wizzy instantly kills whole groups and if any have remnants of health a ruin will finish off the stragglers. Boss dps sure sorc wins but that gives the barbs pally and bards something to do.

[count_spicoli]

I can only speak from own experience here having played both, but I really found a Sorc in EA does more DPS than a wizard in DI and is much more SP efficient while doing so.

Ya Def more sp effecient. I tend to drink to many pots I will admit that. If that is a concern then sorc is Def better. Speed of killing trash however will always lie with a wizzy.

[Wizza]

Uh no. Nothing dies faster than instant and a well built wizzy will always be better at this. Not only will your necro dc always be higher you get a bonus energy drain sla thrown in for kicks. As far as nuking a mass hold and energy burst even on a well built wizzy instantly kills whole groups and if any have remnants of health a ruin will finish off the stragglers. Boss dps sure sorc wins but that gives the barbs pally and bards something to do.

A Sorcerer spec'ed in Necro running in EA can instakill as much as reliably as a Wizard in DI, with much faster CD on Wail on every spells in general, a larger pool and the possibility to actually be meaningful in bosses fights.

It's not that I like it but it is the sad truth of Wizards of these latest patches.