Redsonja 3.0 U25 - TWF Pure Barb

[Stinging_Bee]

Hi. First love the build and I'm excited t try a barb. Never did one before except an FVS split that was self healing but poor dps. Now after the updates I'm ready to jump on board this beast. So I started and am level 5 right now and mowing through stuff. I'm THF with mauls and ogrish war axe as well as a great axe of lacerating and maul of aerating. Against champs I take a beating, but on elite its to be expected I guess. I usually survive through it and can pot back to full and move on.

So a couple of things. First I'm 3rd life and while I have no war hammers on this life (mostly 2 handed weapons from prior fighter lives) I will go as you have built. I have a raiders reward box, but I'm not sure if it's worth it for the CITW hammer or not and I may save it for another life and focus on maybe a cormeyean crafted and the TF one with assorted stuff from the ah until I get there.

- I didn't have a +5 dex tome. Only +4 so I needed to bump dex. So I took from Con and figured why have an odd con number and went con 16. That allowed me to bump dex to 15. Way more than I needed, but I could potentially grab twf, gtwf and itwf sooner. Is that what you would do? Grab them sooner since I'll have the dex earlier? So I'd have dex 15 at level 7 so after 7 I could get twf. Worth doing it or stay thf till 20?

- I kept STR at 18 and tossed 2 into CHA because my last few toons I've leveled have been CHA based and I'm used to. Plus can't hurt UMD right. Maybe I should have went Int for Know the Angles, but what's done is done.

- I'm not a completionist so I have that feat free. Was thinking Great Cleave. How often are you using IC pierce on most questing? Is it worth having over GC? I mean I don't want to add buttons to my hotbar just for the sake of it

- How much does 2 melee power give/do? Was thinking of dropping a WF (just one) for Heavy Armor Prof. Wouldn't that be a big help? If so which WF would you drop and when would you take heavy armor? If 2 melee power makes a big difference then I'll keep all 3 WF. It's just at lower levels when I get a melee power bump I don't see much change.

Thanks

If you are not a completionist you can definitely get heavy armor proficiency with that extra feat. It's a totally viable choice to boost a little bit more your magical and physical resistance. I'd keep all the weapon focuses.

[RumbIe]

Thank you. I'm guessing by your response at higher levels 2 melee power is definitely noticeable so I'll keep those.

How about the order? With a starting dex of 15 I just need to get my BAB high enough for twf and will have 17 by level 7 for i and g twf. would it make better sense to get those as soon as I can or just stay thf until 20 and focus on getting wf feats first?

[kendo]

was hoping for some suggestions on what gear to use before you get up to the gear set recommended in the original posts. for most classes, I can do pretty well with commendations out in eveningstar. PDK gloves and helm look pretty good for the STR, CON and amp. possibly adding the Chitin breastplate if I could find one on the AH. the only other item that looked helpful was the bracers from the villagers, mainly for the parrying.

I don't have the scales or comms for dragon scale armor, so probably just search the AH or see what drops in chests.

many thanks for any other ideas, suggestions

[Eth]

Rolled this version now on my barb (kind of).
What do people think about quick draw? I had it on my barb before and I really don't like playing without it (maybe it's just to much muscle memory, but I get really annoyed not having it, now that I play without it).
I'm level 23 now and seriously considering taking it at 24. Seems better for me than another 2 MP (I already took GTWF, since I started with 13 Dex).

[Eth]

was hoping for some suggestions on what gear to use before you get up to the gear set recommended in the original posts. for most classes, I can do pretty well with commendations out in eveningstar. PDK gloves and helm look pretty good for the STR, CON and amp. possibly adding the Chitin breastplate if I could find one on the AH. the only other item that looked helpful was the bracers from the villagers, mainly for the parrying.

I don't have the scales or comms for dragon scale armor, so probably just search the AH or see what drops in chests.

many thanks for any other ideas, suggestions

This is my setup at 23. Most stuff isn't hard to acquire.
There's no real need for a dragon armor, the giant armor is almost the same and can be used one level earlier (and only costs giant relics).

Head: Epic Helm of Frost (no idea what to put here, kind of unneccessary)
Neck: Heroic Jorgundal's Collar
Trinket: +8 Con Prowess Trinket
Cloak: Deadly VI of Resistance VI
Belt: Epic Spare Hand
Ring1: Ring of the Stalker
Ring2: Heroic Guardian's Ring slotted with Master's Gift
Gloves: PDK gloves
Boots: Kundarak Boots
Bracers: Levik's Bracers
Armor: Restored Giantcrafted Medium Armor
Goggles: GS 45 HP
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity
Weapon1: CITW or Drow Weapon
Weapon2: CITW or Drow Weapon

[Stinging_Bee]

Rolled this version now on my barb (kind of).
What do people think about quick draw? I had it on my barb before and I really don't like playing without it (maybe it's just to much muscle memory, but I get really annoyed not having it, now that I play without it).
I'm level 23 now and seriously considering taking it at 24. Seems better for me than another 2 MP (I already took GTWF, since I started with 13 Dex).

For my playstyle QuickDraw is not very important.
I guess if you are really used to it it could be an option but I personally prefer to click on a cleave or something like that after the activation of a boost to speed up the attack sequence

[Eth]

For my playstyle QuickDraw is not very important.
I guess if you are really used to it it could be an option but I personally prefer to click on a cleave or something like that after the activation of a boost to speed up the attack sequence

Cleave doesn't speed it up, it just gives you one attack, which is better than nothing.
There is still a small delay from the action boosts after the cleave, where you would already be swinging with quick draw.
It also helps when you weapon swap midfight or use a scroll or clickie and swap back to your weapons.

I don't know, just feels wonky without it for me. Maybe you should try it and see what I mean

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Rolled this version now on my barb (kind of).
What do people think about quick draw? I had it on my barb before and I really don't like playing without it (maybe it's just to much muscle memory, but I get really annoyed not having it, now that I play without it).
I'm level 23 now and seriously considering taking it at 24. Seems better for me than another 2 MP (I already took GTWF, since I started with 13 Dex).

in my opinion quick draw is the much better choice, if only because you do notice not having it, but you wont notice not having 2 mp.

[kendo]

This is my setup at 23. Most stuff isn't hard to acquire.
There's no real need for a dragon armor, the giant armor is almost the same and can be used one level earlier (and only costs giant relics).

Head: Epic Helm of Frost (no idea what to put here, kind of unneccessary)
Neck: Heroic Jorgundal's Collar
Trinket: +8 Con Prowess Trinket
Cloak: Deadly VI of Resistance VI
Belt: Epic Spare Hand
Ring1: Ring of the Stalker
Ring2: Heroic Guardian's Ring slotted with Master's Gift
Gloves: PDK gloves
Boots: Kundarak Boots
Bracers: Levik's Bracers
Armor: Restored Giantcrafted Medium Armor
Goggles: GS 45 HP
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity
Weapon1: CITW or Drow Weapon
Weapon2: CITW or Drow Weapon

thanks Eth, appreciate the reply. I hadn't thought about restored armor, no one really talks about it any more but that could be a nice option at that level.

[kendo]

because I am only at 34 pt build, I put an extra couple of points into DEX instead of the final point into CON. I rearranged the order of feats taken a bit because I could qualify for the TWF line a little sooner.

I am about ready to hit 21 and see the following feat options - stunning blow, heavy armor or weapon focus piercing, from the heroic levels I replaced with TWF feats. or overwhelming critical as I don't have to delay it for the TWF line.

looking for suggestions for the next couple of feat selections. I was leaning towards OC, just because it's almost always recommended to get as soon as you can on melee characters. but I didn't know if the 2 extra MP as constant damage on each hit + a little extra healing was better than the extra crit damage. or would it be better to go for some damage mitigation with either stunning blow or heavy armor?

the other feat I saw mentioned a couple of times was improved crit piercing. I believe this was in case you went outside LD and used heavy picks instead of hammers or for temporary use of something like Celestia. but that seems very situational and the other 4 would be of more constant benefit.

which of those feats would you suggest, and in which order to take them. thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

[Eth]

because I am only at 34 pt build, I put an extra couple of points into DEX instead of the final point into CON. I rearranged the order of feats taken a bit because I could qualify for the TWF line a little sooner.

I did the same on my build (taking TWF line earlier). That way you are not locked into taking overwhelming crit. at 28. That allows you the option of chosing blinding speed which can make sense depending if you wear a Speed XV item or not (I'm still sticking with Orcish Privateer Boots, so I took it).

I am about ready to hit 21 and see the following feat options - stunning blow, heavy armor or weapon focus piercing, from the heroic levels I replaced with TWF feats. or overwhelming critical as I don't have to delay it for the TWF line.

Take Overwhelming Critical.

looking for suggestions for the next couple of feat selections. I was leaning towards OC, just because it's almost always recommended to get as soon as you can on melee characters. but I didn't know if the 2 extra MP as constant damage on each hit + a little extra healing was better than the extra crit damage. or would it be better to go for some damage mitigation with either stunning blow or heavy armor?

Don't take heavy armor prof. unless you plan to stay at lvl 28 AND use thunderforged heavy armor with shadow guardian. Other than that there's no reason for a barbarian to go with heavy armor.
Barbs get 10 extra PRR while raging in med. armor, so the difference in PRR is almost non-existant (MRR is a bit more).
But medium armor also allows for higher dodge bonus and has less arcane spell failure. All that considered heavy armor prof. is not worth a feat.

the other feat I saw mentioned a couple of times was improved crit piercing. I believe this was in case you went outside LD and used heavy picks instead of hammers or for temporary use of something like Celestia. but that seems very situational and the other 4 would be of more constant benefit.

Chose your weapons depending on what you want to do. If you want to do a couple ERs and level through different epic destinies, war hammers aren't the best choice (unless you have two Mornhs, then they are great for that being a quasi khopesh). For a more general weapon for any destiny, Khopeshes are still king.
If you plan to stay at 28 in LD or generally play only in LD, follow the build as it is and go with warhammers.

Keep in mind this build was made with a focus on level 28 to absolutely max. out DPS (therefore the weapon focus feats).

which of those feats would you suggest, and in which order to take them. thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

21 OC
24 Stunning Blow
27 another weapon focus feat or blinding speed (if you aren't using a Speed XV item)

[unbongwah]

Barbs get 10 extra PRR while raging in med. armor, so the difference in PRR is almost non-existant (MRR is a bit more).

Actually, they get the +10 PRR regardless of whether they're Raging. It's the +10 Melee Power which is Rage-dependent.

[Eth]

Actually, they get the +10 PRR regardless of whether they're Raging. It's the +10 Melee Power which is Rage-dependent.

I only recently switched to medium, but I'm pretty sure my PRR does increase when I activate rage.

[Eth]

Just checked in game. The 10 PRR is indeed only applied while raged. The description also checks out. Guess it's ddowiki that needs an update here

[Mystickal]

I only recently switched to medium, but I'm pretty sure my PRR does increase when I activate rage.

DDOWiki implies that the PRR bonus is always active (see Greater Rage Feat) but in game on my barb this is not the case - it is only active while raging.

~Bill

[kendo]

I did the same on my build (taking TWF line earlier). That way you are not locked into taking overwhelming crit. at 28. That allows you the option of chosing blinding speed which can make sense depending if you wear a Speed XV item or not (I'm still sticking with Orcish Privateer Boots, so I took it).


Take Overwhelming Critical.


Don't take heavy armor prof. unless you plan to stay at lvl 28 AND use thunderforged heavy armor with shadow guardian. Other than that there's no reason for a barbarian to go with heavy armor.
Barbs get 10 extra PRR while raging in med. armor, so the difference in PRR is almost non-existant (MRR is a bit more).
But medium armor also allows for higher dodge bonus and has less arcane spell failure. All that considered heavy armor prof. is not worth a feat.


Chose your weapons depending on what you want to do. If you want to do a couple ERs and level through different epic destinies, war hammers aren't the best choice (unless you have two Mornhs, then they are great for that being a quasi khopesh). For a more general weapon for any destiny, Khopeshes are still king.
If you plan to stay at 28 in LD or generally play only in LD, follow the build as it is and go with warhammers.

Keep in mind this build was made with a focus on level 28 to absolutely max. out DPS (therefore the weapon focus feats).


21 OC
24 Stunning Blow
27 another weapon focus feat or blinding speed (if you aren't using a Speed XV item)

thank you Eth ! appreciate the very detailed reply. I do have 1 Mornh and could get a second, as I still have a CitW box sitting in the bank but will most likely save that. I am just starting to rotate through the destinies so may play in LD when it's needed but get XP in others when top performance isn't required. I have very few khopeshes and wouldn't want to burn a feat for proficiency. but I could probably round up a couple of heavy picks to use when not in LD and then improved crit could be worth it.

thanks again

[RumbIe]

What exactly does quick draw do? I've used it for shurikens but never melee. Is it just weapon swaps so it is almost seamless or does it also make you chug potions quicker (looking at you lesser restore pots)?

Thanks

[Axeyu]

What exactly does quick draw do? I've used it for shurikens but never melee. Is it just weapon swaps so it is almost seamless or does it also make you chug potions quicker (looking at you lesser restore pots)?

Thanks

Quickdraw reduces the time in which you can't attack after activating abilities like actions boosts. The delay goes from about 1.2 seconds to 0.6 seconds, so it's quite significant.
You can use cleave immediately after using a boost to get past the delay, but cleave doesn't proc offhand attacks or double strikes.

[Eth]

What exactly does quick draw do? I've used it for shurikens but never melee. Is it just weapon swaps so it is almost seamless or does it also make you chug potions quicker (looking at you lesser restore pots)?

Thanks

Quickdraw reduces the time in which you can't attack after activating abilities like actions boosts. The delay goes from about 1.2 seconds to 0.6 seconds, so it's quite significant.
You can use cleave immediately after using a boost to get past the delay, but cleave doesn't proc offhand attacks or double strikes.

What he said. Other abilities I noticed it on are frenzy, death frenzy, storm's eye and improved uncanny dodge (at least I think so, I haven't excessively tested and can't test now since I already took it).

0.6 seconds may not sound much, but to give you an impression... a 45% alacrity TWF does 133 attacks per minute (an attack means mainhand+offhand+doublestrike+offhand doublestrike).
So in 0.6 seconds you get to make 1.33 attacks.

My build in LD has 29% DS and 10% offhand DS.
With mainhand, offhand, DS and offhand DS considered that means in 0.6 seconds I get to roll 2.8861 hits.

[Bloodskittle]

My build in LD has 29% DS and 10% offhand DS.
With mainhand, offhand, DS and offhand DS considered that means in 0.6 seconds I get to roll 2.8861 hits.

Mind doing a break down on your double strike Eth? I'm currently 1% behind you on double strike, wondering what I'm missing.