Time to merge Cannith?

[Monkswizzz]

Exactly as the thread says, is it time to merge Cannith?
A great example why is that I'm on a VIP subscription but every time i get between level 16-20 there are rarely partys available even setting up my own brings no luck.
It's not the easiest in other levels too but this level range is ridiculous for getting a party especially for those that don't prefer to solo.

I don't enjoy the game much anymore for these reasons a lot of reasons why other people left too are these and the game is just dying so fastly now. I have been waiting for a group since 16:40 and it is now 19:45?

Cannith needs a merge to be saved and turbine certainly needs to try and save a great game.

[Bloodskittle]

I would be all for this if they upgraded their physical servers and then merged it all into one or two big servers, but if there is no update to the hardware then whats the point?

[FranOhmsford]

We desperately need Server Mergers.

Cannith is one of the more populous servers currently and not hurting as bad as Orien, Argo, Thelanis and obviously Wayfinder!

4 strong Servers is about what DDO needs at this point in time:

Ghallanda-Wayfinder
Khyber-Cannith
Sarlona-Argonnessen
Thelanis-Orien

Would be my choices.

[depositbox]

We desperately need Server Mergers.
4 strong Servers is about what DDO needs at this point in time:
.

4 ddo servers. That's like 200 players each, right?

[Monkswizzz]

I only play on Cannith and have done since 2009, so I don't know what the other servers are like.

But if the other servers a worse than Cannith jeez this game must be scraping the edge of near extinction. Back a few years ago I might be wrong but Cannith was one of the biggest servers there must have been tons of players and it worked out fine with such big numbers. Putting all the servers to 1 server can't hurt then can it? Or maybe put them all to 2 servers, either way the recent merges they did with some servers just aren't enough clearly if they are still as small as Cannith with Cannith being such a dying server too.

I always get the odd player asking me are there any other games as good as DDO out there, they are getting to the point of searching for another game which most players that are left are going to get to that process now at some point soon because everyones disappearing and DDO is turning into a Solo game.

[AdamSmith]

Don't worry hon, you'll be begging for less population on Cannith very soon now.

Turbine has fingered Cannith to be the Default server again starting tomorrow https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5598201

Soon Cannith will be infected with the Lagbola virus. Enjoy.

[FranOhmsford]

I only play on Cannith and have done since 2009, so I don't know what the other servers are like.

But if the other servers a worse than Cannith jeez this game must be scraping the edge of near extinction. Back a few years ago I might be wrong but Cannith was one of the biggest servers there must have been tons of players and it worked out fine with such big numbers. Putting all the servers to 1 server can't hurt then can it? Or maybe put them all to 2 servers, either way the recent merges they did with some servers just aren't enough clearly if they are still as small as Cannith with Cannith being such a dying server too.

I always get the odd player asking me are there any other games as good as DDO out there, they are getting to the point of searching for another game which most players that are left are going to get to that process now at some point soon because everyones disappearing and DDO is turning into a Solo game.

The only time Cannith has been one of the biggest servers population wise was last year - From April when Cannith gained the Default from G-Land To October/early November when Sarlona gained the Default from Orien.

Pre April last year Cannith was #6 on the Server Population table!

This was made in October last year:



As you can see G-Land falls as Cannith jumps!


The Quarterly graph shows Orien taking up second spot after it becomes the Default but not catching Cannith:



And the Monthly graph shows Cannith {and Orien of course} fall away as Sarlona takes up the Default in October:




Since October Cannith has probably continued to drop away as G-Land, Khyber and Thelanis are historically stronger servers - Cannith and Argo will still be way ahead of Orien and Wayfinder though!



Historically without counting the Default server population strengths are more like this:

1) Khyber
2) Thelanis
3) Ghallanda
4) Argo
5) Sarlona
6) Cannith

7) Orien










8) Wayfinder

[FranOhmsford]

Don't worry hon, you'll be begging for less population on Cannith very soon now.

Turbine has fingered Cannith to be the Default server again starting tomorrow https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5598201

Soon Cannith will be infected with the Lagbola virus. Enjoy.

Cannith wasn't particularly laggy between April and October last year when it was the most heavily populated Server!

In fact during that period it was Khyber that had the worst lag issues!

Recently it has been Ghallanda that has had the worst lag issues!

A Few people on Orien have been reporting Lag issues since the default change but I'm gonna put that down simply to Elitists angry that Newbies might contaminate their pristine corpse of a Server!

[AdamSmith]

Cannith wasn't particularly laggy between April and October last year when it was the most heavily populated Server!

In fact during that period it was Khyber that had the worst lag issues!

Recently it has been Ghallanda that has had the worst lag issues!

A Few people on Orien have been reporting Lag issues since the default change but I'm gonna put that down simply to Elitists angry that Newbies might contaminate their pristine corpse of a Server!

Really Fran, you are relying on outdated charts and data points cuz DDOracle isn't being updated. Also there have been several patches and updates to the game since Cannith was previously default server. It's not a few people on Orien that were complaining, you should have tried playing there this past weekend. Anyway, you will soon see the inevitable rise of Lag on Cannith if the default server switch goes through as planned.

It will be a very unpleasant situation to deal with for those that play during server primetime. Anticipate many screams of anguish on Cannith but whatever you can always play on another non-default server.

[FranOhmsford]

Really Fran, you are relying on outdated charts and data points cuz DDOracle isn't being updated. Also there have been several patches and updates to the game since Cannith was previously default server. It's not a few people on Orien that were complaining, you should have tried playing there this past weekend. Anyway, you will soon see the inevitable rise of Lag on Cannith if the default server switch goes through as planned.

It will be a very unpleasant situation to deal with for those that play during server primetime. Anticipate many screams of anguish on Cannith but whatever you can always play on another non-default server.

Then why have there been NO complaints on Sarlona for the past 6 Months?

Sarlona has had the Default from October last year {shown on that "outdated" graph btw!} to just a couple of weeks ago and there's not been a SINGLE complaint about Lag on that server in that time!

Whereas there's been HUNDREDS of complaints about G-Land!

Cannith will survive and with Newbies coming in Grow!


It's a real pity that the DDOracle is no longer being updated and an even bigger pity that Turbine won't show us their data on server pops OR bring back MyDDO!
However that Data is strong and though outdated shows over a good period of time the status of the servers!
To believe that things have changed that much since October is just plain wrong!

[Munnin2]

I have been bumming around DDO for over 5 years now. I have seen it go from a Group-Oriented Must have Rogue/Healer (for a lot of content) to a No Rogue, No Healer, Solo Everything experiance). While it's true, a lot of stuff has changed over the years to make it a more Solo Friendly Experiance. It is still true that most quests are best/fastest run with a full group. Many, Many quests that take 45 mins to an hour solo, are run in 10-15 minutes (often less) in a Full Group. For someone who doesnt have much time to play, the Full Group experiance is the most ideal.

HOWEVER, Server populations have dwindled. Every year has seen a loss of player activity. (Note: Subscription size is not an accurate representation of Server Activity). With some noticeable Drop offs at times. (Due to disappointment in released content etc.). To bring DDO back to where its supposed to be (as a group friendly, with solo option game) individual Server populations need to skyrocket. 1-2 groups (at most) every other level is not ideal. 4-5 groups/level is. Raids are harder to fill these days (and fewer and farther between) and Server Populations all around are suffering.

Proposal: When the servers are updated later this year (something similar may already be planned when that happens) We should shrink down to 2 servers, 4 servers is a great Short term plan, but not a logical Long Term Plan. 1 server would probably be the absolute best, but theres still enough players to keep 2 servers stocked fully, and not have to worry about Overpopulation.

[Memnir]

No.
Server-merges are a band-aid fix only. And a cheap, knock off, brand band-aid that peels off at the slightest nudge at that. Any "fix" would be short-term at best.


There are far more pressing and critical problems to grouping then any amount of merging will fix. Resolve those problems first, then maybe talk merges down the line. I'd much prefer real solutions to kneejerk and shoddy ones.

[Jeromio]

I agree with Munnin2; two servers would be sufficient with current playerbase.

The Oracle's graphs from May 5th shows that number of logins were quite stable during the spring, but median is still about 1000 players down quarterly compared to last autumn:

[nomaddog]

No.
There are far more pressing and critical problems to grouping then any amount of merging will fix.

Mem, you and I have had plenty of discussion about the state of the game over the years. I was curious what critical problems you were referring to.

[Memnir]

Mem, you and I have had plenty of discussion about the state of the game over the years. I was curious what critical problems you were referring to.

Absolutely, my friend.

A lot of "bonuses" have killed grouping.

Bravery Bonus (which I love), and Flawless Victory XP bonus (which I don't) being the most egregious examples. Ever since they were implemented, the PUG scene has withered. Not as dead as some folks like to crow - but they've had more of an impact on grouping then anything else I've seen in this game. And I've been here since the beginning and know what it was like before the first server-merge, as well as the dark times before Unlimited launched. Even at those less then amazing times in DDO's past, the PUG scene wasn't this bad.


Is DDO's population the healthiest? No. Has it been worse - yes. At when it was worse, PUGing was still not as gasping for air as it is now.

I'm very much on record as being in favor of BB - but it's effect on grouping has been toxic. It needs a change, or at least a balancing factor that would make it more group-friendly.
Flawless Victory has never really been seen seen as a bonus - just a reason to get PO'd at somebody for dying. It's really one of the main reasons why many experienced players don't group with new ones... they don't want to sacrifice 10% XP if the less experienced player dies. It's seen as a penalty, and therefore the population has adjusted it's habits to avoid the penalty.

I really think Turbine needs to take a moment and figure out how to reincentivize grouping. And I mean that coming before new content and classes. The game has some major issues. While I don't think we need to totally unravel the steps Turbine took to make DDO has solo-friendly as it is right now - I do think they need to realize that those steps went a bit too far. They made the game more solo-friendly, but they took almost every reason to group out behind the barn and pretty much put 'em down. For the game to get healthier - Turbine needs to do something they've rarely done well... find a balance. Right now, the teeter-totter is slammed down on the side of solo/very small party play. They need to work in reasons for full groups to be attractive again.

Give reasons to run in full groups again, and I can almost guarantee that a lot of the perceived problems that have folks calling out for merges would vanish.



I don't claim to have all the answers. Just that, based on experience, a server merge is needed far less then balancing other issues first.

[nomaddog]

I'll chip in my 2 cents on what you've brought up...

Bravery Bonus: I also like bravery bonus, but what it has done has made people run content on the hardest difficulty which most new players, fresh off the boat, are not equipped to handle. This usually results in a death or three, which leads to your second point of...

Flawless Victory: I agree that this is never seen as a 'bonus'. By giving players the incentive to play harder difficulties, which new players are usually not ready for, you get a reason to not group with random pugs. Another thing that ****es people off is when someone summons a hireling. It is well documented that hirelings are about as dumb as a bag full of doorknobs. Even when you park them, they for some reason still want to come and give you a hug and die in a trap.

Incentive to Solo: I think this is the one thing that really gets under my skin. Turbine has done a great job of making this game easier to solo. One just has to look at Gianthold Tor for an example of making the game more solo friendly... levers don't need to be pulled in unison, end fight was changed so it could be soloed, dragons are no longer required to flag for the raid. Another reason people choose to solo is because of dungeon scaling. If you go into some of the newer content, the scaling is off the charts when you have a full group. Why would you not want to solo.

Self Healing: This really has been a major reason why you don't see as LFMs any more. Nearly every class now has the ability to heal themselves. This really gained traction when Epic Destinies came out and has just kept going with many of the enhancement passes that have occurred recently (like barbarians). I have always been a firm believer in self-sufficiency, but not at the expense of grouping.

Final Thought: I have always enjoyed DDO for the social interactions that I've had. Nothing is more fun than joining a group to take down some big baddie. I do lament the fact that so many people have come and gone from this great game. I've tried others, but always come back to this one. I don't know if mergers are the answer. Yes, it seems like you would have more people to play with but if you are really only putting more people together who would prefer to play solo, then there really isn't a difference.

[huntunderhill]

I'll chip in my 2 cents on what you've brought up...

Bravery Bonus: I also like bravery bonus, but what it has done has made people run content on the hardest difficulty which most new players, fresh off the boat, are not equipped to handle. This usually results in a death or three, which leads to your second point of...

I have ranted about this very issue before, and I feel the solution to this problem is the formation of newbie guilds. Guilds that don't focus on E-BB but instead run lower level quests to teach beginners, so they can then go onto lead their own parties. I like the idea of guilds that focus on lower level content (levels 1-12 for instance) that can train the newest members of our server. But...

-> this is just a pipe-dream. People are so focus on being elite right off the boat. Even the newest players want to be in the guilds with the largest ships, and with the highest guild levels, without even knowing that you can get over +80% of the buffs just by being level 60-70, and that levels +100 gives bugger all. A server merge will solve nothing, it won't change how people behave.

And on a personal note, I feel that we TRs are somewhat to blame. As in people want to be like the best, and therefore follow and copy to get there. ATM the majority of my parties are now private, simply because I've grown tired of carrying around Soul Stones. The Soul Stones of people who join my E-BB games only to die at the start, because these players are only present to ride my coat-tails for BB XP.

BB was a bad idea, it only aids Legendary characters

[Sam1313]

I sorta like being on a small server. Yeah it has its rough spots when your trying to grind this or that out of a raid and you put up a lfg and sit and wait, and wait, and wait. But I prefer to live in a village rather than live in a City. People in the country are more helpful and nicer than "most" people who lives in large cities. Yes the Bravery Bonus is not a good implement but neither is having a system that requires you to grind out certain raids until your eyes bleed just so you can upgrade a bow or whatever. I am mostly aiming that comment towards the FoT, CitW and Thunderholme Raids. I cannot include The Shroud among those 3 because who doesn't like to run The Shroud? It's fun, Fast if you have a good party. And you don't have to grind it until either your eyes bleed or your laptops processor wears out to get what you need to craft yourself a nice little something that you can just keep reusing.

[FranOhmsford]

I sorta like being on a small server.

The problem is that Cannith isn't a small server Sam!

It's the biggest atm!

And some people might prefer to live in a market town rather than a hamlet! Even if we merged all 8 servers into 1 we wouldn't have enough for a city!

[Sam1313]

Oh wow really? I didn't realize that Cannith was a large server now. Thanks for pointing that out to me Fran. I am totally oblivious as to what goes on around me on Cannith. I am not a numbers person and I don't really keep up with the latest Oracle stats (I rely on you for that lol) I just log in after work and do my thing and try to keep my guild members active and try to help them out in any way that I possibly can. This is good news though because now our guild is level 81 I have actually thought about recruiting. Most likely it will never happen unless one of my officers does it because recruiting makes me very nervous. Its messed up I get social anxiety through a computer?

A really cool thing did happen last night though as I was walking out of Market into the harbor I ran into a newer player who had just formed their own guild (lvl 5 atm) and named it "The Knights Templars". So I invited them to my party and took them to our airship and let them get the buffs, told them I liked their guilds name and if they ever needed any help or just wanted to use our airships buffs just let me know. I kinda shocked myself bc usually I clam up around total strangers.

Wait. did you just say that even if they did merge all the servers that it still would be a small city? That can't be good. We gotta figure out some way to help Turbine attract new people and then keep those new people. I love this game. I don't want it to go away due to lack of community or funds.