U25 Cetus: Barbarian with Manyshot

[Therrias]

That is a nice idea...
I might try something like that with TWF line but without the cleaves...

Yeah, TWF is best for barbs.

[xTethx]

Here's another idea:

To retain manyshot and go pure barb, I'd have to give up GTHF + ITHF.

It seems that losing 3 melee power from the feats, 3 melee power from harper, 24% glancing blow damage (angry arms), and divine might in exchange for mighty rage, a 5% proc of >1100 damage, 10 melee power (4 net), and storms eye might be worthwhile.


Won't have the AP to go with KTA if I want berserker capstone and tier 5 ravager.

Would actually get a boatload more HP through all that extra con (wouldn't have to worry about charisma)

Thoughts?

That all depends if storms eye procs on ranged attacks, then maybe, just maybe it would be worth it. However, when properly built/played I dont think anything will out perform an 18/1/1 (atleast currently).

[the_one_dwarfforged]

why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

[xTethx]

why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

The damage from scream is enhanced by crit profile and melee power. So it actually surpasses tunnel vision.

[Eth]

why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

A blitzing barb has somewhere between 150 and 190 melee power. Criticial profile is 15-18 x3, 19-20 x6.
Going with 150 MP a single point of extra base damage would add 4.625 damage per swing.
If the 3 extra Str even out your Str score on a THF this would mean 3 more damage (since they get 1.5 damage for each extra Str mod) or 13.875 damage per swing.
Tunnel vision would be 6.5 only.

Anyway I use both on my barb, because I can't afford 4/3/2/1

[unbongwah]

Just thinking out loud: since you're already investing in Harper for moar Melee Power, what if you went for KtA instead of Div Might, with INT as your secondary stat; and did barb 18 / rgr 1 / ftr 1 instead?

Upsides: extra feat from ftr splash (Gt Cleave, S.Blow, or Insightful Reflexes), hvy armor prof, saves you an LR +1. So, say, 37 APs Ravager, 31 APs FB, 1 AP PDK or human, 11 APs into Harper for KtA and +4 Melee Power. [Technically you have access to Kensei Haste Boost so you could shift 3 EDPs from LD Haste Boost into Crit Dmg (+6 Seeker); but that req's freeing 4 APs from Harper, which basically means ditching the extra MP.]

Cons: Apart from possibly messing up your gear, because of the way KtA vs STR bonus applies to 2H weapons, if you can get your secondary stat above 40, Div Might is better than KtA.

CHA 30: +10 STR (Div Might) -> +7.5 dmg
INT 30: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 5 dmg (KtA) -> +8 dmg

CHA 42: +16 STR (Div Might) -> +12 dmg
INT 42: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 8 dmg (KtA) -> +11 dmg

[ddorimble]

Just makes me more self sufficient soloing quests (like HH or break in the ice). I can get it mid 70's, which works well for stuff I needed it for. Skills are pretty much up to player preference.

I absolutely agree. Search has been added to my 'required skills' list ever since True Seeing and the like don't automatically find secret doors.

[Blackheartox]

That all depends if storms eye procs on ranged attacks, then maybe, just maybe it would be worth it. However, when properly built/played I dont think anything will out perform an 18/1/1 (atleast currently).

It doesnt proc, i tested for a hour with random throwers and xbows and bows.


No, dont ask me why i did it...


But i still think that for single target pure barb with manyshot 2 weapon fight is best.

Issue is aoe trash clearing, i really like 2handed for that

[Spoonwelder]

A blitzing barb has somewhere between 150 and 190 melee power. Criticial profile is 15-18 x3, 19-20 x6.
Going with 150 MP a single point of extra base damage would add 4.625 damage per swing.
If the 3 extra Str even out your Str score on a THF this would mean 3 more damage (since they get 1.5 damage for each extra Str mod) or 13.875 damage per swing.
Tunnel vision would be 6.5 only.

Anyway I use both on my barb, because I can't afford 4/3/2/1

Just a point of order - if you are twisting it it you are probably going for the full 5str version - I would anyway if I am not living in Fury- so even more likely to get you 6 more damage->27dps

[Eth]

Just a point of order - if you are twisting it it you are probably going for the full 5str version - I would anyway if I am not living in Fury- so even more likely to get you 6 more damage->27dps

I assumed 3 because you can always just use the regular rage buff from potions or clickies for +2 Str/Con. They don't stack with primal scream.

[Cetus]

Which of the Barb goodies are applying to manyshot? Should just be just crit rage and +1 frenzy multi IIRC from when I tested stuff last fall.

You'd also lose Bow Strength with that setup. Seems to me like you can either optimize for melee, or you can be pretty good melee with a pretty good manyshot burst.

I just switched to pure real quick to test a few things with the capstone. The 400 damage proc doesn't work on ranged, haven't done storms eye yet.

And I have bow strength, dropping ITHF and GTHF makes all the ranged feats fit in.

That all depends if storms eye procs on ranged attacks, then maybe, just maybe it would be worth it. However, when properly built/played I dont think anything will out perform an 18/1/1 (atleast currently).

Yea, agreed.

why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

Tunnel vision costs me 10 fortification for an average of 6.5 damage a swing. Scream throws me even, so thats 3 extra damage a swing before multipliers. Factoring in multipliers scream is better DPS, and is also better defensively.

Just thinking out loud: since you're already investing in Harper for moar Melee Power, what if you went for KtA instead of Div Might, with INT as your secondary stat; and did barb 18 / rgr 1 / ftr 1 instead?

Upsides: extra feat from ftr splash (Gt Cleave, S.Blow, or Insightful Reflexes), hvy armor prof, saves you an LR +1. So, say, 37 APs Ravager, 31 APs FB, 1 AP PDK or human, 11 APs into Harper for KtA and +4 Melee Power. [Technically you have access to Kensei Haste Boost so you could shift 3 EDPs from LD Haste Boost into Crit Dmg (+6 Seeker); but that req's freeing 4 APs from Harper, which basically means ditching the extra MP.]

Cons: Apart from possibly messing up your gear, because of the way KtA vs STR bonus applies to 2H weapons, if you can get your secondary stat above 40, Div Might is better than KtA.

CHA 30: +10 STR (Div Might) -> +7.5 dmg
INT 30: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 5 dmg (KtA) -> +8 dmg

CHA 42: +16 STR (Div Might) -> +12 dmg
INT 42: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 8 dmg (KtA) -> +11 dmg

This is very interesting. I had my charisma at a 42 with a yugo pot, so it'll be like a 40 int (since the yugo pot for int sucks for fortification).

You can discount divine might by 2 if I just slot insightful 2 str somewhere.

So really it's +14 str = 7*1.5 ~ 11 dmg

With the extra fighter feat, Weapon focus or completionist might be good substitutes.

Hey teth....about that druid level. lol

[xTethx]

I just switched to pure real quick to test a few things with the capstone. The 400 damage proc doesn't work on ranged, haven't done storms eye yet.

And I have bow strength, dropping ITHF and GTHF makes all the ranged feats fit in.



Yea, agreed.



Tunnel vision costs me 10 fortification for an average of 6.5 damage a swing. Scream throws me even, so thats 3 extra damage a swing before multipliers. Factoring in multipliers scream is better DPS, and is also better defensively.



This is very interesting. I had my charisma at a 42 with a yugo pot, so it'll be like a 40 int (since the yugo pot for int sucks for fortification).

You can discount divine might by 2 if I just slot insightful 2 str somewhere.

So really it's +14 str = 7*1.5 ~ 11 dmg

With the extra fighter feat, Weapon focus or completionist might be good substitutes.

Hey teth....about that druid level. lol

Rams might. More damage amp than primal scream (same damage for THF). Also, you get a lever puller for incase situations.

[unbongwah]

The other downside to KtA is you want your INT to be exactly "10 + (4 * x)" where x is your target dmg bonus; otherwise the dmg bonus gets rounded down, AFAIK. So INT 42 gets you +8 dmg (10 + 4 * 8), but INT 38 thru 41 only gets you +7. Whereas with Div Might, each +2 CHA gets you +1 STR; i.e., you're gaining dmg for every 2 pts of CHA thru Div Might.

But if your plan is to swap FvS for druid for Ram's Might, you get:

CHA 42: +16 STR (Div Might) -> +12 dmg
INT 42: +4 STR (Insightful item) + 2 STR (Ram's Might) -> +4.5 dmg + 8 dmg (KtA) + 2 dmg (Ram's Might) -> +14.5 dmg

[Cetus]

Rams might. More damage amp than primal scream (same damage for THF). Also, you get a lever puller for incase situations.

Yea that might be a decent route, or maybe wizard for 1% doublestrike and an extra cleave - no idea what I'd spend the metamagic feat on though.

Although with the fighter feat I get the flexibility to get weapon focus, it seems that the 2 melee power roughly matches the rams might.

[gwonbush]

The other downside to KtA is you want your INT to be exactly "10 + (4 * x)" where x is your target dmg bonus; otherwise the dmg bonus gets rounded down, AFAIK. So INT 42 gets you +8 dmg (10 + 4 * 8), but INT 38 thru 41 only gets you +7. Whereas with Div Might, each +2 CHA gets you +1 STR; i.e., you're gaining dmg for every 2 pts of CHA thru Div Might.

This is wrong. You gain damage every 4 points of CHA since odd Strength is also rounded down.

[Silverleafeon]

Just makes me more self sufficient soloing quests (like HH or break in the ice). I can get it mid 70's, which works well for stuff I needed it for. Skills are pretty much up to player preference.

Thanks for the reply, good luck on your build, looks interesting.

[Cetus]

So I tried pure barb - seems like storms eye isn't working on ranged.

Additionally, losing the glancing damage is a huge DPS hit. I've been getting between 900-1170ish on the capstone. But my glances fell off by like 150 points, and considering the speed with which glances come rolling in vs. the proc - it seems like losing 25% glance damage is more of a DPS loss than the 5% proc is a DPS gain.

[xTethx]

Yea that might be a decent route, or maybe wizard for 1% doublestrike and an extra cleave - no idea what I'd spend the metamagic feat on though.

Although with the fighter feat I get the flexibility to get weapon focus, it seems that the 2 melee power roughly matches the rams might.

I use a twf'ing version so the rams might works out to more damage than the melee power, a thf version is probably even or better off with the melee power.

[unbongwah]

This is wrong. You gain damage every 4 points of CHA since odd Strength is also rounded down.

What I mean is: with Div Might, for every 2 pts of CHA you gain a pt of STR, which may or may not even out your STR mod; but with KtA, you have to invest 4 pts at a time into INT to gain +1 dmg, otherwise you get nothing. So there's more granularity to the improvements you get with Div Might. Also, it's a lot easier for this build to tweak its STR by, e.g., adding or subtracting a pt of Power Rage in order to balance things out; whereas the only options for tweaking INT are human Adaptability and Harper Training, but that gets expensive if, e.g., you're sitting at INT 39 and want to hit 42 for your next pt of dmg.

It's just another one of the tradeoffs to my idea of using KtA instead of Div Might.

[Cetus]

What I mean is: with Div Might, for every 2 pts of CHA you gain a pt of STR, which may or may not even out your STR mod; but with KtA, you have to invest 4 pts at a time into INT to gain +1 dmg, otherwise you get nothing. So there's more granularity to the improvements you get with Div Might. Also, it's a lot easier for this build to tweak its STR by, e.g., adding or subtracting a pt of Power Rage in order to balance things out; whereas the only options for tweaking INT are human Adaptability and Harper Training, but that gets expensive if, e.g., you're sitting at INT 39 and want to hit 42 for your next pt of dmg.

It's just another one of the tradeoffs to my idea of using KtA instead of Div Might.

I like the idea - just ran an 18 barb / 1 fighter / 1 ranger with KTA and a 40 int. Even if I get 7 damage from it, I gained another point of melee power from harper, and 2 more melee power from the extra fighter feat WF: Bludgeoning.

So, 7 damage and 3 extra melee power over having a 42 cha, which was a 16 mod to str -2 insightful augment = 14 str or ~10-11 damage.

Pretty even.

With a bit more int tweaking, I can probably pull a few points ahead. That was only with a +8 int item and a +2 augment.