Turbine please give Monks Wisdom to hit/damage

[Blackheartox]

BTW if wisdom were added as a stat for damage, it wouldn't work anyway for handwraps.

Why did i start laughing quite loudly when i read this reply?

[Robbenklopper]

Thank you

In my times as a DM in PnP, it never made sense to me that STR was then main factor to HIT, and i gave anyone the Chance to use DEX for it whatever stat was higher if the PC spend a feat on weapon finess, for any Kind of weapon.
My main toon is a Monk, but i´m not for WIS to DMG. It doesn´t make sense to me, same i think about INT, CHA, CON or DEX to DMG. To hit yes, to dmg no.
On the other Hand, any other stat was already abused to dmg, so why not WIS too. Or remove the other stat to dmg stupidities.


The Option given by a weapon to Hit/DMG by WIS/CON etc would make (a Little) sense to me, so ... maybe we´re getting more of that (stave of the seer ML8 was a beast!)

[Saekee]

Has anyone crunches the numbers on comparing how high a monk can get wisdom vs str? I am guessing that it might be possible with enough gear, twists etc for STR to be significantly higher even with all level ups in wis.

Int damage in harper tree gets a secondary buff from KtA. Many consider dex builds 'flavor,' not optimal (not me). CON as damage is for very focused builds as is CHA. So I think the mainly used alt stat is really INT thx to Harper and KTA compensating for the difficulty in boosting INT on a melee/ranged past, say, 70s (I am thinking here of INT rogues).

[Ikeas]

When the enhancement revamp came I was very glad to see many "X to-hit and damage". I found it really helped many builds suffering from the old MAD problem (multi-attribute dependency). Strenght was (and still is) the king stat for melee damage: lots of sources buffs Strenght, but hey, that's what you are choosing if you go for a non-Strenght buid.
Rogues (always stat-starved by his need of DEX, INT and somewhat CON, WIS and CHA) had it better with DEX to damage with finesse weapons and staves (also INT for crossbows and throwers). Rangers had the opportunity to use DEX to-hit and damage with some weapons. Pallies and warpriests had a damage boost with Divine Might. I'm sure I'm missing things, but I'm sure you got the point.

We had even broad "X instead of STR" things: the Finesse stuff from Ranger, the Ninja Spy enhancement (piercing or slashing while centered).

With time, we saw tress like Harper, using INT for to-hit and damage with EVERY combat style and/or weapon.

But none of those bypasses works with wraps. On a class (monk) with a high high multi-stat dependency (STR, DEX, CON, WIS), we have no to-hit nor damage bypass, not even multiclassing, not even buying harper.

The answer it's always "it's the way unarmed damage is encoded". It is really nothing to do with this problem? Don't you see this is damaging the way unarmed (read pure) monks are performing, specially in epic levels (the closest we have to an end-game in DDO)?

No LD boosts, no Crusader boosts, weird with Adrenalines...

Can I haz a revamp?

[Pehtis]

I will only say yes if it's exclusive to FEMALE characters. It is only these wondrous unarmed creatures that can crush you through their sheer willpower. That all knowing look of disapproval is the death of many.

[Zendrakkos]

If you think about it from the definitions of the words it makes very little sense to do damage with wisdom, to-hit I could tolerate but what would be the point?

So how do you do damage with CHA?

Or INT?

Does you statement make sense?

[Blackheartox]

Has anyone crunches the numbers on comparing how high a monk can get wisdom vs str? I am guessing that it might be possible with enough gear, twists etc for STR to be significantly higher even with all level ups in wis.

Int damage in harper tree gets a secondary buff from KtA. Many consider dex builds 'flavor,' not optimal (not me). CON as damage is for very focused builds as is CHA. So I think the mainly used alt stat is really INT thx to Harper and KTA compensating for the difficulty in boosting INT on a melee/ranged past, say, 70s (I am thinking here of INT rogues).

If handwraps at least worked with int i could build some stuff, but int to damage and kta dont work.

I mean, yea...
Expected..
sigh

[Munkenmo]

With the exception of rogues having DEX to attack and damage, there shouldn't be any more alternate stat to attack/damage imo. Alternate stats give other bonuses to your character besides damage.

You're right, it shouldn't have happened, but the cats been let out of the bag and it's never getting put back in.

[HastyPudding]

For unarmed, twf, or shurikens? Absolutely not.

For quarterstaves? Necessary.

Henshin suffers from so many flaws, and the fact that their stats are spread so thin is just another flaw. Not needing strength would make wisdom their key stat, which would greatly help their pitiful finisher DC's and unique ki abilities. It would still be the worst enhancement tree, but it would be one step in the right direction.

Hopefully the devs can fix henshin sometimes soon when they're revamping other classes. It seriously needs it.

[TeacherSyn]

For unarmed, twf, or shurikens? Absolutely not.

For quarterstaves? Necessary.

Henshin suffers from so many flaws, and the fact that their stats are spread so thin is just another flaw. Not needing strength would make wisdom their key stat, which would greatly help their pitiful finisher DC's and unique ki abilities. It would still be the worst enhancement tree, but it would be one step in the right direction.

Hopefully the devs can fix henshin sometimes soon when they're revamping other classes. It seriously needs it.

We already have some patterns to existing XXX to Damage options.

Ninja Spies gain DEX to To-Hit and to Damage...but with shortswords and kamas only.

Taking Harper Agent training could use INT to Damage and To-Hit...with weapons.

So, as Saekee pointed out, unarmed damage is its own thing. I'm betting such a feature won't happen for unarmed attacks, ever. Monks are built differently.

That said, if we could get WIS to-Damage, a true Zen Archer would benefit right off the bat and would be the best class for it next to Mystics. Why? Because a pure Monk can't get the Bow Strength feat unless mixed with Ranger or Half-Elf Ranger dilettante, and so make for poor damage without it. (I learned this the hard way.)

After taking the Zen Archery feat for centered bows and to-hit (replacing DEX), an optional feat could be added with WIS 18 and Monk level XX to give something I'll call "Ki Shot." This adds WIS to damage if WIS is higher than STR. It would only work with bows, not shuriken (Shuricannons are happy enough as they are, thank you)--and not while unarmed. I suspect that the level of damage increases with more Monk levels (so we don't give the Monkchers any more bright ideas).

Rather than complicating the Mystics, WIS to-hit and to-Damage could be part of the core training abilities as with similar stuff in Ninja Spy. But it would also make the Mystic a bit of a one trick stat pony, and I don't see that as fair since ki, damage, attack and saves come from that one stat. That's overpowered.

So, WIS to-Damage only for Mystics with a core ability (requiring you to commit more Monk levels and/or AP), but to-hit is still determined by DEX to keep it real. And get the Mystic's attack speed near the Acrobat's, for Tyr's sake!

[HastyPudding]

We already have some patterns to existing XXX to Damage options.

Ninja Spies gain DEX to To-Hit and to Damage...but with shortswords and kamas only.

Taking Harper Agent training could use INT to Damage and To-Hit...with weapons.

So, as Saekee pointed out, unarmed damage is its own thing. I'm betting such a feature won't happen for unarmed attacks, ever. Monks are built differently.

That said, if we could get WIS to-Damage, a true Zen Archer would benefit right off the bat and would be the best class for it next to Mystics. Why? Because a pure Monk can't get the Bow Strength feat unless mixed with Ranger or Half-Elf Ranger dilettante, and so make for poor damage without it. (I learned this the hard way.)

After taking the Zen Archery feat for centered bows and to-hit (replacing DEX), an optional feat could be added with WIS 18 and Monk level XX to give something I'll call "Ki Shot." This adds WIS to damage if WIS is higher than STR. It would only work with bows, not shuriken (Shuricannons are happy enough as they are, thank you)--and not while unarmed. I suspect that the level of damage increases with more Monk levels (so we don't give the Monkchers any more bright ideas).

Rather than complicating the Mystics, WIS to-hit and to-Damage could be part of the core training abilities as with similar stuff in Ninja Spy. But it would also make the Mystic a bit of a one trick stat pony, and I don't see that as fair since ki, damage, attack and saves come from that one stat. That's overpowered.

So, WIS to-Damage only for Mystics with a core ability (requiring you to commit more Monk levels and/or AP), but to-hit is still determined by DEX to keep it real. And get the Mystic's attack speed near the Acrobat's, for Tyr's sake!

In their current state, Henshin Mystics are the exact opposite of overpowered. Wisdom-to-damage would only fix one problem among the many they are afflicted with. They shouldn't be an acrobat clone for monks. Henshin is supposed to be more of a ki-caster/melee hybrid, which, currently, they completely suck at.

[Ikeas]

For unarmed, twf, or shurikens? Absolutely not.

For quarterstaves? Necessary.

Henshin suffers from so many flaws, and the fact that their stats are spread so thin is just another flaw. Not needing strength would make wisdom their key stat, which would greatly help their pitiful finisher DC's and unique ki abilities. It would still be the worst enhancement tree, but it would be one step in the right direction.

Hopefully the devs can fix henshin sometimes soon when they're revamping other classes. It seriously needs it.

How is your statement about qstaff fighting not a valid point for unarmed fighting? And I'm not talking just about the enhancement trees (point where I agree with you: Shintao is better than Henshin).

WIS to-hit and damage would have the exact benefit on both playstyles: be able to drop STR on a class needing "too much" high stats, making the main stat of the class the combat source: accuracy, damage and DC. I think both trees offer some stuff for combat (Henshin gives +4 to hit, +6 damage, +1 threat range +1 crit multi with staves; Shintao gives Empty hand for an average +1 damage per unarmed dice and VBV for somewhat increased crit threat).

Then, why you found so different having WIS to-hit and damage for stick combat and unarmed combat?

[TeacherSyn]

In their current state, Henshin Mystics are the exact opposite of overpowered. Wisdom-to-damage would only fix one problem among the many they are afflicted with. They shouldn't be an acrobat clone for monks. Henshin is supposed to be more of a ki-caster/melee hybrid, which, currently, they completely suck at.

That's why I want more attack speed...much more. The foundational parts are there; ki attacks and general damage with a stave is stellar, but too little attack speed and defense makes it a harder tree to play than it should be.

But making WIS to Damage for them only swings the pendulum too far in the other way. I would be happy with a ki buff that improves attack speed as the Mystic improves, as well as more defensive buffs for AC or saves. All else is there, and I'd rather use STR for this since it applies to other foundations. Since WIS is the magic stat for Monks, WIS to Damage would make almost any Monk overpowered if they only needed one stat like that.

[Saekee]

For unarmed, twf, or shurikens? Absolutely not.

For quarterstaves? Necessary.

Henshin suffers from so many flaws, and the fact that their stats are spread so thin is just another flaw. Not needing strength would make wisdom their key stat, which would greatly help their pitiful finisher DC's and unique ki abilities. It would still be the worst enhancement tree, but it would be one step in the right direction.

Hopefully the devs can fix henshin sometimes soon when they're revamping other classes. It seriously needs it.

I agree but we must consider how hard it is to buff certain stats. STR has many options to buff, from gear clickies, tenser scrolls, rage pots, primal scream etc. INT does not so they created Know the Angles to compensate. Dex does not either but at least with Tenser's and monk GMoF stance you have another 8 points possible.
With wisdom, outside the GMoF, there is really nothing to buff it. So adding it to the Henshin tree is NOT overpowered. I am betting that if one started with both STR and WIS at max numbers, put all level ups in Wisdom--you would still have a higher STR due to the ease of buffing it. You need something like Divine Grace or KtA to make it really worthwhile. Of course maxing wisdom makes sense on a monk especially because it is tactical AND boosts AC AND saving throws for any class.

That is the really the challenge of DEX builds--lack of Divine Grace or KtA for increasing it but in comparison to INT builds you get the +8 if Monk and with Tensers--really compensates.

[Ikeas]

Since WIS is the magic stat for Monks, WIS to Damage would make almost any Monk overpowered if they only needed one stat like that.

Yo mean like bards? :P

[Berst]

Ok, so what might be the wider implications? Wis to damage in a monk tree.....will end up with clerics and FVS splashing...allow only when centered? ...needs to be at a low level..or do you go the divine grace route and give wisdom as a strength bonus?

Well just make it tier 5. That's a heavy investment to counter splashes. Also how I see wish to hit and damage is that the monks wisdom is so attuned, that the monks perception level is increased in combat. Being able to discern control points in the enemies body, allowing for more precise hits and doing more damage to the enemy's body.

[Kriogen]

Doublestrike. Like 10K stars for melee.

[Monkey-Boy]

add this to GMoF.

[silinteresting]

add this to GMoF.

actualy adding wisdom to att/dam i can see being a good idea.
im probally one of the few who play my monks and hybred monks
in gmof so it would be benifical to me but i want it in the monk
main enhancement tree's.

maybe oneday ill get what i want.

your friend sil

[Monkey-Boy]

This game breaks from unintended consequences. GMoF's the least likely to break as it's a pretty weak destiny.