Monster Manual IV flaws

[wiliamsane]

Well , where to start ...
Ok numbers:

Monster ; Max "hunter"; Max "slayer" ; Max account "slayer"
Abishai: 10 1200 1600
Air Elemental: 15 1200 1600
Clay Golem: 5 600 800
Efreet: 10 600 800
Horned Devil: 15 1200 1600
Lion: 10 600 800
Mind Flayer: 24 1200 1600
Mummy: 40 1200 1600
Orc: 50 3500 7000
Stone Golem: 5 600 800

First you need 5 acount deeds to unlock expertise instead 4 from MM3
Comments about numbers :
Abishai - there are very few of them .. tryed red name chrono patrol which did not counted so we have only named ones left
Both golems .. kinda meh , also there are quite few clay golems ... stone ones are ok thanks to lord of stone
Efreet: same very few of them
Lions: same .. we already have fiendish lions which should be under lion tab also quite few of them
Horned Devil you know these guy are ones like Harry , Sulo , Horoth .. how can you even get close to 1600 of them ?
Many of these numbers need to be rethinked and it looks like they were made up by someone who never turned ddo on
Rest not mentioned is imho bit high too .. do you remember MM1 and 2 ? since they were released i still need to kill hundreds of halflings and oozes etc

Deeds are kinda bugged too - viz image

As you can see i have character deed complete but i did not kill any clay golem on that character , also it counts to expertise , yet i do not have any acount deed completed.

And last thing :Rewards
I can remember some dev trying to justify monster manual price by that you can earn it back .. which was true and great (for MM1 and 2) so i did bought it without hesitation .. Then MM3 came out .. no TP no jewels.. only 40 silly shards and 2 pets ... ok that was on edge to be considered arguable. But now .. only 40 shards with nothing else ..

I am thinking that Monster Manual is worse and worse with each new edition of it

[brian14]

Horned Devil you know these guy are ones like Harry , Sulo , Horoth .. how can you even get close to 1600 of them ?

By running Kobold Island: Short Cuts until your eyes bleed

You are correct of course -- most horned devils in DDO are quest or raid bosses, so it takes quite a bit of time to get even one of them. One or two are Devils Battlefield rares, which does not really help. Short Cuts challenge is the only place where you can find more than one of them.

According to DDO Wiki each large extractor in Short Cuts is guarded by either a horned devil or a succubus, but I do not remember ever seeing a succubus there. Granted, I hardly ever run Short Cuts.

BTW, Harry is a pit fiend, not a horned devil. Pit fiends are red chickens, horned devils are greyish white chickens.

[brian14]

Abishai - there are very few of them .. tryed red name chrono patrol which did not counted so we have only named ones left

Sounds like an omission.

Efreet: same very few of them

"Against the Demon Queen" has A LOT of efreeti. But that's the only quest I can think of which does.

[oradafu]

Abishai in Chrono might be broken like the Necro4 mobs or mephits. Hopefully it's just an omission that will be corrected and not a perpetually broken mob.

As for the low numbers of Horned Devils, Abishai and Efreeti, if the Devs were smart with their planning, the next two updates should include a variety of those mobs. With Vale and Amrath becoming Epic, those three in particular should be reappearing. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to also see new Clay and Stone Golems, since there are rare ones in the heroic Devil Battlefield. To a lesser degree, there might be a small chance of some new lions in Epic Vale, since there's some in the heroic slayer area.

Hopefully this is the case and it would alleviate the need to farm out low level quests or a repeat of Halflings and Mephits that are unachievable. (Aside: new Mephits should also appear in both those updates also.)

[FranOhmsford]

So....Of the 10 most wanted mobs not yet on the Manual only Mummies, Air Eles and Orcs actually make it in?

What the....?

Where are:

Wights
Drow
Gnolls
Ogres
Reavers, Renders and Flensers?
Fire Giants
Frost or Stone Giants
Vampires

[cdbd3rd]

The news in this thread is giving me a sad.

I don't mind a few creature types that are difficult to get for non-raiders, but seems a large portion of this edition is being aimed at high level power gamer types - which IMO would be ones least interested in the MMs.


I did not dig into it while I was Llama'ing as I wanted that part to be a surprise. Thanks to you folks actually giving it a spin, and here's to hoping the feedback makes a difference in the final product.

[FranOhmsford]

15 Hunter deed on Horned Devils?

There's only like 3 of em in the entire game!

Sully, Centurion Armisos in the Battlefield and ..... Uh?

[cdbd3rd]

...

And last thing :Rewards
I can remember some dev trying to justify monster manual price by that you can earn it back .. which was true and great (for MM1 and 2) so i did bought it without hesitation .. Then MM3 came out .. no TP no jewels.. only 40 silly shards and 2 pets ... ok that was on edge to be considered arguable. But now .. only 40 shards with nothing else ..
...

Again speaking here just on info of this thread - am hoping the rewards are not in their final state. MM1-3 rewards were not OP. MM4 rewards should be on par with the previous editions.

[Chi_Ryu]

15 Hunter deed on Horned Devils?

There's only like 3 of em in the entire game!

Sully, Centurion Armisos in the Battlefield and ..... Uh?

Well, there is also Lysson in Devil Battlefield, and...
Baktor (horrid teleporting boss of Devil Assault Epic)
Cenodoxus in Sins of Attrition (if you choose that option)
Erisandes in Bastion of Power
The one in Genesis Point if you go East at the end (but everyone seems to choose the Mephit option and won't see him :P)
The Judge from ToD
Travaxis (optional boss of bauble farmi...err, I mean The Weapons Shipment)

That makes 10 with the "generic" Horned Devil

[oradafu]

So....Of the 10 most wanted mobs not yet on the Manual only Mummies, Air Eles and Orcs actually make it in?

What the....?

Where are:

Wights
Drow
Gnolls
Ogres
Reavers, Renders and Flensers?
Fire Giants
Frost or Stone Giants
Vampires

I didn't expect all of those to appear, however I was expecting at least 5 things in this MM...
* An undead - we got with Mummy
* An elemental - we got with Air Elemental
* An animal - we got with Lion
* A Giant - we didn't get
* Drow - we didn't get

Like everyone else, I'm disappointed in the lack of Drow.

I'm really surprised at there being no Giants at all in this MM. I would have thought at least an Ogre, if not one of the "true" giant types.

And last thing :Rewards
I can remember some dev trying to justify monster manual price by that you can earn it back .. which was true and great (for MM1 and 2) so i did bought it without hesitation .. Then MM3 came out .. no TP no jewels.. only 40 silly shards and 2 pets ... ok that was on edge to be considered arguable. But now .. only 40 shards with nothing else ..

I am thinking that Monster Manual is worse and worse with each new edition of it

Yeah, I remember the pitch about the cost of the MMs when they first came out being set that high was because we got TP and 2 cosmetic pets with each update. I was really disappointed that MM3 switched from TP to a few Astral Shards without lowering the cost. If this update doesn't include anything more than the handful of Astral Shards, for example lacking the expected Air Ellie and some other cosmetic pet, the price needs to be much lower than the previous volumes.

[DANTEIL]

Yeah, I remember the pitch about the cost of the MMs when they first came out being set that high was because we got TP and 2 cosmetic pets with each update. I was really disappointed that MM3 switched from TP to a few Astral Shards without lowering the cost. If this update doesn't include anything more than the handful of Astral Shards, for example lacking the expected Air Ellie and some other cosmetic pet, the price needs to be much lower than the previous volumes.

In one of the twitch streams I believe (sorry not sure when/where), they mentioned that this MM would be the last one using Astral Shards as the reward system (and a companion Air elemental too, I believe), but that in future MMs they were planning on going to a new secret-for-now way of handing the MM rewards.

So, bad news: you will probably only a get a few astral shards with this one
Good news: they are thinking about more MMs!

[FestusHood]

Consider future updates to possibly see more mobs of the devil and abishai variety.

[FranOhmsford]

Well, there is also Lysson in Devil Battlefield, and...
Baktor (horrid teleporting boss of Devil Assault Epic)
Cenodoxus in Sins of Attrition (if you choose that option)
Erisandes in Bastion of Power
The one in Genesis Point if you go East at the end (but everyone seems to choose the Mephit option and won't see him :P)
The Judge from ToD
Travaxis (optional boss of bauble farmi...err, I mean The Weapons Shipment)

That makes 10 with the "generic" Horned Devil

How did I forget Blinky?

Well I guess Epic Vale will have the other 5 then?

[FranOhmsford]

Like everyone else, I'm disappointed in the lack of Drow.

I'm really surprised at there being no Giants at all in this MM. I would have thought at least an Ogre, if not one of the "true" giant types.

I'm more disappointed with the lack of Gnolls and Wights myself - I can see the Devs messing Drow up with the sheer number of different types but they could at least have added a Scorrow or Drider entry.

As for Giants - Yes...Ogres and Fire Giants absolutely need to be in the next manual now - along with Wights and Gnolls!

[Full_Bleed]

Disappointed by the monster selections for IV.

I don't much care about the rewards beyond the logging of body counts, some bonus XP, and being able to see the monster's HPs. If the monster is too rare and these things aren't attainable in a reasonable play time, I'll find the MM to be seriously wanting.

That said, I'm going to buy this thing... if only to encourage them to put out more of them.

[FestusHood]

I can imagine horned devils and abishai being normal trash mobs in epic Vale and Shavarath. That would account for those high numbers in the monster manuals.

I was really hoping to see drow, even if it was just the underdark variety.

[Ykt]

I can imagine horned devils and abishai being normal trash mobs in epic Vale and Shavarath. That would account for those high numbers in the monster manuals.

7 months later, still wondering how to get those 1600 horned devils.

[Dragavon]

7 months later, still wondering how to get those 1600 horned devils.

There are loads in the Defiler of the just raid. It is not a problem if you do that.