Mysterious Remnants are ridiculously rare, and the rewards are astronomically overpri

[JOTMON]

It REALLY depends on how much you play and what you play. I've accumulated more remnants than I'll ever know what to do with. At this point, they just take up space. I'm sure for many people, it's the same. I've also never farmed remnants either. This is from simply running quests. Of course, I may get more than most people because I run Elite streak through Epics, while it seems from complaints from other people that most people run epics horribly over level.

agree, it is dependant on what you play..
I play a full range on several toons, and have accumulated several 10k stacks.

TR rinse repeats, great for remnants since these are generally elite BB zerg runs. (largest portion of my drops come from these)
ETR runners.. is alright, but not as good as heroic TR.. often screwed up if not running Bravery bonus since over level toons diminish drops.. but we take whatever and go..
Endgame raiders.. well they don't get remnants.. remnants don't drop in raids.. so its a screw you to endgame raiders.
Newbies.. not so much, no remnants in normal or casual..

[Wizza]

Remnants were a cool project that ended up being abandoned, just like everything else in this game.

We were promised lots of rewards, meaningful rewards, that were to be added over time. Nothing of this happened. Not to mention that the drop rates in epics are awfully low, and the +1 or +2 tomes are a step in the good direction but really underwhelming.

[bartharok]

Remnants were a cool project that ended up being abandoned, just like everything else in this game.

We were promised lots of rewards, meaningful rewards, that were to be added over time. Nothing of this happened. Not to mention that the drop rates in epics are awfully low, and the +1 or +2 tomes are a step in the good direction but really underwhelming.

Yeah, i get a LOT more of them in heroics than in epics, but thats because i elite streak heroics at level, but play the epics at whatever level.

[jalont]

Remnants were a cool project that ended up being abandoned, just like everything else in this game.

We were promised lots of rewards, meaningful rewards, that were to be added over time. Nothing of this happened. Not to mention that the drop rates in epics are awfully low, and the +1 or +2 tomes are a step in the good direction but really underwhelming.

It was never a "remnant" system. It was always a champion system attempting to bring back challenge in the game. Remnants were just thrown in to keep the whiners quiet.

[Coyopa]

It was never a "remnant" system. It was always a champion system attempting to bring back challenge in the game. Remnants were just thrown in to keep the whiners quiet.

I wasn't playing at the time they were introduced. However, I do appreciate the cloaks and eternal dw potions!

[Wizza]

It was never a "remnant" system. It was always a champion system attempting to bring back challenge in the game. Remnants were just thrown in to keep the whiners quiet.

I am quite sure that Remnant is the most successful part of the Champion system. And seeing how bad the remnant system is, it says a lot.

[azrael4h]

It was never a "remnant" system. It was always a champion system attempting to bring back challenge in the game. Remnants were just thrown in to keep the whiners quiet.

Funny thing about all the people claiming they want challenge. They don't actually want challenge, otherwise they would ask for actual challenge and not boring, tedious bloat like we got, and when there actually is something challenging, they either avoid it like the plague (see Elite In the Flesh for an example, no one ever runs it at level, and only rarely did even when new. Also see In The Demon's Den), or demand that they be rewarded if it's easy enough to be done (Champions, most elite quests). BB came about because people wanted greater rewards for running elite (beyond favor, which eventually led to tomes and is now the only way to get tomes in game, and an already higher XP boost).

[walkin_dude]

Elite In the Flesh for an example, no one ever runs it at level, and only rarely did even when new. Also see In The Demon's Den

Just speaking for myself, but I almost always do in the flesh at level, and I will happily join a demon's den lfm if I see one. The quest xp isn't particularly necessary, but I like the quest. It is tough as old shoe leather, that's for sure.

[jalont]

Funny thing about all the people claiming they want challenge. They don't actually want challenge, otherwise they would ask for actual challenge and not boring, tedious bloat like we got, and when there actually is something challenging, they either avoid it like the plague (see Elite In the Flesh for an example, no one ever runs it at level, and only rarely did even when new. Also see In The Demon's Den), or demand that they be rewarded if it's easy enough to be done (Champions, most elite quests). BB came about because people wanted greater rewards for running elite (beyond favor, which eventually led to tomes and is now the only way to get tomes in game, and an already higher XP boost).

I run Elite In the Flesh every life with a full pug group. Come on now. In the Demon's Den doesn't get ran because it's bad xp/min for its level range. This is the easiest MMO on the market. Period. Unfortunately, it's also one of the oldest, meaning we are restricted by the engine. All of the whining about Champions tells me it did exactly what was needed - increase challenge in the game. We need more of it. Who else will the game draw? It's not like there's potential players on the sidelines saying, "Gosh, I'd really like to play MMOs but they're just too difficult. If only one was easier, I'd play it!"

[dunklezhan]

I am quite sure that Remnant is the most successful part of the Champion system. And seeing how bad the remnant system is, it says a lot.

Certainly, every group I'm in someone shouts 'remnant' in pavlovian style whenever one drops. If it was undesirable I'm not sure people would do that.

That said, I've now got enough remnants for one and a half top tier rewards and I still haven't bothered going to see what they actually are.

Quite honestly I just enjoy champions.

But I do still hate hate hate the crowns. a gold flame aura would have been way better. Or remnants should be mini crowns. Or something). I'd quite like to be able to trade remnants with party members (not just in a champ chest).

Maybe remnants could be used in the new Cannith Crafting on ultra-hard recipes?

[Coyopa]

Certainly, every group I'm in someone shouts 'remnant' in pavlovian style whenever one drops. If it was undesirable I'm not sure people would do that.

That said, I've now got enough remnants for one and a half top tier rewards and I still haven't bothered going to see what they actually are.

Quite honestly I just enjoy champions.

But I do still hate hate hate the crowns. a gold flame aura would have been way better. Or remnants should be mini crowns. Or something). I'd quite like to be able to trade remnants with party members (not just in a champ chest).

Maybe remnants could be used in the new Cannith Crafting on ultra-hard recipes?

I am one of those. I'm always "Cookies!" when they drop. I'm up to 27,000 remnants in my shared bank and anxiously awaiting the return of the mysterious cloaks.

[Steve_Howe]

Since the remnant "system" came out, I've amassed just over 9,100 mysterious remnants. Looking forward to trading them in when I reach 10,000 for the Crown of Fire for my main.

After that, I won't even bother to pick them up anymore.

[azrael4h]

I run Elite In the Flesh every life with a full pug group. Come on now. In the Demon's Den doesn't get ran because it's bad xp/min for its level range. This is the easiest MMO on the market. Period. Unfortunately, it's also one of the oldest, meaning we are restricted by the engine. All of the whining about Champions tells me it did exactly what was needed - increase challenge in the game. We need more of it. Who else will the game draw? It's not like there's potential players on the sidelines saying, "Gosh, I'd really like to play MMOs but they're just too difficult. If only one was easier, I'd play it!"

Somehow I knew there would be several posts claiming they run In The Flesh every life. So do I, but it doesn't matter. It was always unpopular in the old days because of it's difficulty. Now it's much easier to run due to power bloat (we are well beyond creep), so it probably is run often on TRs. But when it came out, the whole pack was panned and ignored. The quests were challenging (compared to the level at the time), and the rewards weren't great (Free Agent favor's main value is in turbine points). Crucible is another. The same people wanting "challenge" also got it removed from Tor flagging (and the split-the-party mechanics in Tor removed as well, though admittedly I appreciate that since I like running Tor, and can't always find a group any more). I can't even get guildies to run Crucible hardly. Makes me sad, since I love Crucible, but never could solo the maze.

If you're wanting challenge, then you run for challenge. XP/Min doesn't factor into that, since you're running for challenge. If that really was the case, then in the cap 20 days you'd have no excuses anyway, since you could hit 20 and never need XP again. Nowadays, a 3xTR hits 20 by the time they finish L16 quests (I do at least). Again, no reason to run for XP, but for the challenge yes. It is one of the last remaining quests that is challenging to finish. at level, unless there's been a nerf I don't recall. Even in full groups of well geared players, In the Demon's Den was never ran then. Because it was too hard for the so called hard core players. Again, they didn't really want challenge.

Same for Shroud as well. Used to, no one ever touched elite Shroud. Normal every 3 days was it. It wasn't until you got two extra chests with a chance for larges that it was ran, and even then not until after MotU and EDs made it somewhat trivial as long as people could do puzzles.

I could go on. But the fact is, at all stages of the game, it's been farming out gear to trivialize top end content, and when it can be run in your sleep, whine about a lack of an end game or challenge. It's more been avoiding the challenge until you are well beyond it's being a challenge. It's been this way at least since I've been playing.

This isn't nearly the oldest MMO, given that Turbine alone has two other, much older games still in operation. Then there's grandmomma UO, and Everquest. You can't even use the fact it's 10 years old as an excuse for it's current popularity. WoW is around the same age, IIRC. Maybe a couple years older actually. It also isn't the easiest, period. Unless you consider grinding mindlessly hard and challenging. Then again, 250,000hp trash kobolds. Those are so hard since they jump around and occasionally up walls to float in mid air you know.

The current state of popularity can be laid at the feet of very poor marketing (if no marketing at all can be just called poor), technical problems which were allowed to fester and persist, poor relationship and communication between the customers and Turbine, and for a long time a constantly rotating producer's chair with constantly changing visions of what the game would be. The end result of that last one is a host of incomplete systems, homogenisation of the character classes, fragmentation of the player base into Heroic and Epic, and a lack of restraint on the power granted to both players and monsters. To the point that entire new systems had to be added to compensate. PRR/MRR anyone?

There is no reason for this game to not have a greater popularity. And no reason, ancient engine or no, for it to not be capable of regaining at least some of it's former glory. UO has no problems finding people to run it's old 2D engine. It will all boil down to management, some of it in Turbine's hands, some in Warner Brothers'. IMO, that's why Severlin is talking a third expansion. MotU created a lot of excitement, and created, briefly, a lot of new players. It was execution that failed to keep them; MotU was designed around elitist "Endgamers", instead of a segment of the gaming population that could break a single solid percentage point. Alot of those newcomers were left since the game was now needlessly fragmented and they would never get to play any of the new stuff.

An expansion has the potential to turn DDO around, with a bit of marketing and some excitement. It would also be a heck of a feather in Severlin's cap (and a nice couple of lines on the resume) to have resuscitated a decade old game. But it if ends up like MotU and further separates the playerbase, then it will fail in the mid-term. That's why I said it needs to have a Heroic version.

I wouldn't say Champions did anything. They added a bit of randomness to the game, to the point that I'll look at them sometimes to see what buffs they got. Mostly, it's "remnants!" and "stupid orange/red named dropped a chest!" I don't otherwise see a difference.

[Amorais]

I like the idea as its a bonus and there are some reasonable rewards. Unfortunately whoever was VP in charge of grinding added a zero onto all the grind targets just to ensure that only diehards get the best gear. Case in point the laughable ToEE rewards where the grind is almost at psychotic level for a sub-par piece of junk.

Main problem I have with remnants is the champion system. I don't want to run a dungeon and success/failure is dictated by how many champions are in a quest as opposed to how well I play my toon. I also really really find the immersion break that goes with much more powerful trash mobs than the red named guy at the end of the dungeon puts me off a lot of elite content.

An example of just how mind numbingly stupid the system is - accidentally splitting a non-champion Ooze only to have ALL the split oozes to spawn as champions and dying instantly.

Doing fine vs hobgobs in a Cabal For One. Random nobody Hobgob spawns as a champion, hits for 111 damage first hit, 82 second hit and kills my toon. Yay...fun.

[Coyopa]

Since the remnant "system" came out, I've amassed just over 9,100 mysterious remnants. Looking forward to trading them in when I reach 10,000 for the Crown of Fire for my main.

After that, I won't even bother to pick them up anymore.

That's too bad. The cloak is just about the best cloak in the game at this time (MRR, heal amp, and two slots). I have an eternal deathward potion on one of my characters and that's really nice to have. It lets me carry just one Visor of the Flesh Render Guards rather than multiple. There are decent things to get with the remnants.

[Wizza]

Funny thing about all the people claiming they want challenge. They don't actually want challenge, otherwise they would ask for actual challenge and not boring, tedious bloat like we got, and when there actually is something challenging, they either avoid it like the plague (see Elite In the Flesh for an example, no one ever runs it at level, and only rarely did even when new. Also see In The Demon's Den), or demand that they be rewarded if it's easy enough to be done (Champions, most elite quests). BB came about because people wanted greater rewards for running elite (beyond favor, which eventually led to tomes and is now the only way to get tomes in game, and an already higher XP boost).

Yes, people want challenge and be rewarded appropriately for it. I see no problem with that.

Certainly, every group I'm in someone shouts 'remnant' in pavlovian style whenever one drops. If it was undesirable I'm not sure people would do that.

That said, I've now got enough remnants for one and a half top tier rewards and I still haven't bothered going to see what they actually are.

It is the only thing we have, I'm not surprised. I never said I do not pick up remnants, in fact I usually also say "Rem" to my ddo partner when we play. Could this system be better? Absolutely.

[theboyftw]

I think 10k for potions that are bound to character is a bit extreme (should be BTA), but I don't have much issue with the champions system. It's kind of fun to run into a random champion and have him almost waste you before you're aware of what's happening.

[Coyopa]

I think 10k for potions that are bound to character is a bit extreme (should be BTA), but I don't have much issue with the champions system. It's kind of fun to run into a random champion and have him almost waste you before you're aware of what's happening.

I'll agree that I would like them to be BTA. I got the DW potion on my (now again) barbarian and then parked him a while (he was a non-pdk warchanter that life). While I parked him, I was wishing I could transfer that potion to someone else.

[dunklezhan]

It is the only thing we have, I'm not surprised. I never said I do not pick up remnants, in fact I usually also say "Rem" to my ddo partner when we play. Could this system be better? Absolutely.

No argument from me there, Wizza.

[Angelic-council]

I am quite sure that Remnant is the most successful part of the Champion system. And seeing how bad the remnant system is, it says a lot.

It's not terrible as one might think.. just, once they stop releasing new stuff. It gets boring and people stop bothering. I guess stacking +2 ability score is nice, but meh.