U25 Loot: First Look

[Livmo]

Nothing for repeater users. Sad our last best reapting crossbow is the Needle at L23. Still no pickings for post L25+ play. Too bad the Thunderforge is not as good as the Needle. The Needle out performs Thuder due to x3 critical roll and ranged alacrity.

Since the level cap is going to 30, it would be nice to have an epic repeater beyond the Needle.

Rather than meh, please recycle the Needle and up the base damage, move critical roll to x4, and add 50% ranged alacrity and a 2nd augment slot.

Thanks.

[viktorserak]

Welcome to the U25 loot thread! Since the loot that is available on Lammania is still in a rough form, we wanted to give you a better idea of how the finished product will look. Everything below is subject to change as plans change and adjustments are made. Feel free to comment with any feedback or suggestions you may have.

Starting with U25 we are taking a new approach with itemization. The goal is to have fewer effects, which are more powerful, on the items which allows for a wider variety of the loot created.

At the same time we are attempting a new approach with the Mythic aspect of loot. Our new approach will have items show up with a mythic effect that will give a bonus to PRR and MRR or to Melee Power, Spell Power, and Ranged Power depending on the slot of the item. There will be a more common lower power version of the mythic effect and a rare chaser level that has a bit more power. The Mythic bonuses from each slot stack with one another. Example: You have a +2 bonus to PRR and MRR from your shield and a +1 to PRR and MRR from your necklace, you will have a total of +3 PRR and MRR.

ToEE Loot

There are two forms of loot in Temple of Elemental Evil. The first is an upgradeable system including almost all melee and ranged weapons (including handwraps) and all levels of armor and a docent. There are no thrown weapons.

The various random chests in ToEE have a chance to drop any of the weapons. Each weapon/armor drops associated with one of 4 elements (fire, cold, acid, electric). Along with that you will find different types of mushrooms in these same chests. The items can then be upgraded at the Overgrown Workbench using these mushrooms.

All items are available in the level 7 version and the level 28 version of the ToEE. All Elemental Effects match the base element of the weapon found.

Bind Status: The current plan is that the more common mushrooms will be unbound and the base level of the weapons will also be unbound. Once crafted the weapons will become BtA. If we run into issues making items craft into BtA, the base weapons would likely end up as BtA.

Fully upgraded melee weapons:

Heroic: 1.5W
Epic: 5W
Effects:

• Element Vulnerability (applies a 1% vulnerability to the element that lasts 3 seconds, can be added every 2 seconds, and can stack 20 times)
• Maiming (new level of the effect for Epic)
• Elemental Energy Burst (new level for Epic version)
• Elemental Area of Effect (New levels for both Heroic and Epic versions)
• Purple Augment Slot

Fully upgraded melee casters:

Heroic: 1.5W
Epic: 5W
Effects:

• Elemental Spell Power Increase (new level for Epic)
• Elemental Lore (new level for Epic)
• Spell Penetration (new level for Epic)
• Riposte (new level for Epic)
• Purple Augment Slot

Fully Upgraded Ranged Weapons:

Heroic: 1.5W
Epic: 5W
Effects:

• Element Vulnerability
• Crippling
• Seeker
• Elemental Energy Burst
• Purple Augment Slot

Fully Upgraded Armor:

Effects:

• Fortification
• Elemental Absorption (new level for Epic)
• Lesser Displacement
• Resistance (new level for Epic)
• Green Augment Slot

There w?ill also be some rarer named items that can be found in the random chests throughout the dungeon. These will only drop in Mythic form. Many of the effects will have new levels for the Epic versions. These items will be BtA.

Heroic Weapons: 1.5W
Epic Weapons: 5w

• Spine Bastard Sword - Human Bane, Phlebotomizing, Puncturing, Wounding, Purple Augment Slot
• Frost Scimitar - Evil Outsider Bane, Good, Silver, Freezing Ice, Purple Augment Slot
• Quarterstaff - Elemental Bane, Bodyfeeder, Paralyzing, Bewildering, Purple Augment Slot
• Dagger - Incorporeal Bane, Ghost Touch, Greater Dispelling, Assassination, Purple Augment Slot
• Bow - Human Bane, Improved Destruction, Maiming, Ranged Alacrity, Purple Augment Slot
• Fire Pick - Construct Bane, adamantine, Fire Burst, Telekinetic, Purple Augment Slot
• Spike Club - Elemental Bane, Vampirism, Hardened Spikes, Improved Destruction, Purple Augment Slot

• Horseshoe Crab Shield - Natural Armor, Exceptional Sheltering, Improved Bashing, Exceptional Seeker, Purple Augment Slot

• Golden Skull Orb - General Elemental Absorption, Energy Siphon, Insightful Spell Lore II, Purple Augment Slot, Orange Augment Slot

Possible levels of some of the new effects:

New High level of Elemental Area of Effect - 30d3 + 90
New Low level of Elemental Area of Effect (for level 7) - 6d3 + 18

Epic Elemental Energy Burst - 6d6 on hit, critical deals an additional 4d10 x2, 6d10 x3, 8d10 x4
Epic Maiming - x2 8d6, x3 12d6, x4 16d6

Elemental Vulnerability – Similar to Frostbite, it is a 1% vulnerability to a specific element, can stack to 20, can be applied once every 2 seconds, expires a count in 3 seconds, is unique

Elemental Spell Lore - 23%
Elemental Spell Power – 156%

Epic Phlebotomizing - 5d8

Epic Puncturing - 3d4 constitution damage
Epic Bone Breaking - 3d4 dexterity damage
Epic Enfeebling - 3d4 Strength damage

Epic Wounding - 3 constitution damage
Epic Maladroit - 3 dexterity damage

Epic Assassination +6

Specific Elemental Absorption - 35%
Resistance - +14

For developers:

While this may not be a nice feedback, it is an honest feedback from loyal customer. Please take that into consideration.

TL,DR version:

There is nothing really exciting in these maybe except for the armor (assuming that it has heroic version and that heroic version has lesser displacement on it).
That loot, in this form, will become obsolete in the moment you will release it. I am literally not interested in any of it and I ran pretty much every single class except for druid.
Excuse that it is not a raid loot or it should not outshine something is, with all respect, not a good argument - In order for most players, I dare to say, the dungeon (TOEE) must offer something of value loot-wise, else, it will be more or less dead in a month, when the novelty wears off.

The beefy version:

We have like a million crafting systems and yet ANOTHER one will be arriving this year with epic Greensteel. Do we really need Mushroom based one? I mean... I do have Huge green ing bag, but even that is not limitless. Please, stop blindly adding layers upon layers of crafting systems. We want Epic GS. Perhaps combine epic GS with SHavarath pack like in heroic, but please, stop throwing TONS of other halfbaked crafting systems on us.... it gets old fast.


First, the "crafted" weapons: Epics are propably trash. I havent done the math correctly, but from my quick draw of it, TIER 2 TF, which doesnt demand you to run the raids, seems better AND lower level. So, meh. If I am wrong, then I can see someone using them, but right now, I am not really impressed by them. Perhaps make them more specialized to fill certain niche? Or better yet, dont make weapons but trinkets or auguments? I.E. something we dont get with epic GS and something that will not compete with TF...
Heroic weapons may be very nice thou. All that said... on lvl 7 we level so fast, that there is not really time for much farming, so... yeah. on low levels, those weapons may dominate but honestly... who needs them on low levels for few hours?

Crafted Armor: This is outshined by so many things in current game that its not even worthy mentioning, at least on epic levels. Assuming heroic version will have lesser displacement.... now that is an interesting armor, if you dont want to invest into offense with your armor.

Named weapons: ¨

Spine Bastard sword: WoPs dont work in epic content due to the hard capp on stat draining and short interval between full stat regen on mosters. Thus, this weapon, althou nice nod to the times past, is totally useles in epics. Heroic version may be more fun, but still suffers similar problem.

Frost Scimitar: Good for devils! except for the fact that devils are ice resistant. ........ ......... .......... ......... sigh

Quetarstaff: Unless you are making some new tier of paralyzing, then this is going to work only of mobs failing on rolling 1. for a top level loot, this seems weak. Compared to bone crusher, for instance, this seems weak.
¨
Dagger: made half way for killing livings, half way for killing undeads and thus, getting nowhere at all.

Bow: Since at one time, Pinion was given to everyone who wanted it (to some, even twice or thrice), any bow must be better than pinion in order to be interesting. Also, this particular one is much higher level. Current version doesnt really look interesting, but it just may be crystal cove killer. we will see.

Fire Pick: Good for constructs! except for the fact that many of them are resistant or healed by fire....... ........ ......... .......sigh. Also, unless you are coming with new tier of telekinetic, then it will not work, as everyone will save against it.

Spike Club: It it a club. Clubs are inferior weapons by definition in DDO. So who cares what it does? Its a club.

The shield and the orb looks interesting to me, not in the "I want them" ratio, but they are DEFINITELY the best loot form the temple so far. that is, sadly, not saying much.

Generally: Every update so fasr had at LEAST one or two things that I was excited or very happy about, some generally mediocore items, and some vendor trash.
TOEE right now has vendor trash only with few very mediocore items and YET ANOTHER crafting system. I am not a happy customer when I look onto it.

While this may not be a nice feedback, it is an honest feedback from loyal customer. Please take that into consideration.

[Wizza]

In red.

Can we have a real reply to the complains that everyone showed in this thread about loot?

[Livmo]

Not sure why the color red is used in the OP.

http://wearecolorblind.com/example/readability/

[die]

I am 100% sure I read form one of the Dev's say.. The Loot from this update will not.. I REPEAT WILL not be better than Thunder forge , due to that TF is a raid. And they do not want the loot to be as good as what the EGS Will be. Now with that said.. I hate crafting just like the majority of you. No more Ing. And I am not looking forward to epic shroud Either. I spent years in there. I dread even thinking about having to do that all over again.. God please create another kick butt MMO that I have not ran into the ground already!

[Bobby88888]

It doesn't need to be more powerful than T3 TF and it shouldn't be but it should be better than CITW loot from lvl 23. Right now I have no incentive to swap my Agony for the Dagger and that really disappoints me.
Take the dagger, staff, etc from CITW expand dice, range or multiplier from them, possibly improve some of the effects and put a few new ones on instead of some already there and hey presto. Not as good as TF but better than loot 5 levels below it. Then balance the rest against these and add some more weapon types if you can.
ie. Dagger: 5[2d4] 19-20 x3: +12 Enhancement Bonus, Epic Deception, Profane Assassinate +2, Profane Armour Piercing 35%, SOME DAMAGE EFFECT, Purple Augment Slot.
Or 18-20 X2 or both I'm not looking at balance too much here since that takes time I don't have.

Same idea with the rest. Make them more desirable than old lower level loot but still with TF T3 as top weapons.

I really look forwards to new cool loot with not necisarily more power but that are different but good still and sadly currently this isn't hitting the spot.

[Ayseifn]

I thought GS weapons were going to be weaker than TF too, this update doesn't really leave much room for them to exist in.

[Marten]

In red.

I would still like conformation that there will be an Outfit Option as neither you or the Devs I have spoke with on Lamannia while testing have been able to do so to date.

For developers:

While this may not be a nice feedback, it is an honest feedback from loyal customer. Please take that into consideration.
...(SNIP)

Generally: Every update so far had at LEAST one or two things that I was excited or very happy about, some generally mediocre items, and some vendor trash.
TOEE right now has vendor trash only with few very mediocre items and YET ANOTHER crafting system. I am not a happy customer when I look into it.

While this may not be a nice feedback, it is an honest feedback from loyal customer. Please take that into consideration.

@NoWorries, I am not a big fan of quoting someone else's post and then only adding, "ya, what he said." But, ya what he said!

@Sev, I know that you as the producer in many cases take the 10k foot view of a project and trust your people to do their job. After exploring the majority of ToEE on Lamannia I can say that the maps are awesome and any time you would be spending there needs to be redirected to Loot. I think a soft touch from you could save this update from being a one and done to a "I haven't run my daily ToEE, lets go!" There has been some solid advice here, but I would like to focus on the Augment suggestions. Crystal cove was supposed to bring us some new one and that didn't happen. Some say it was the 2014 PC that shot that down, well its a new year and time to fix that mistake.

I can't speak for every class, only the two I know well, Monk and Cleric. I would love to see a Blue Augments that increase the base melee die step and Enhanced Ki +1 as these seems to be something completely forgotten after Web was released. I would love to see an Augment that improves Quivering Palm (Something new & especially since you nerfed it into the dirt), +20 Concentrations, +20 Heal, +20 Repair, and as I am sure most would love to see +20 Augs for all skills. +10 Stat Augs and the Augment list could go on and on.

We asked for Equipment that would give us useful abilities and augment slots, you did that with Epic Necro and thank you for that, but now give use the Augments to put in those new items and do it this update to help insure that ToEE is a true daily quest.

If the only reason for me to buy it is the maps, well after testing it on Lamannia why would I buy it on live?

[cebgamer06]

I would love to see more unique/weird/wacky weapons introduced and believe they would help diversify the loot and add something without being overpowered. I would like see something like a higher level sunblade/Celestia type weapon (could even make one or four that has a elemental damage type instead of light to fit thematically) , or usual traits such as Epic Midnight Greetings (can be used by monks and changes its enhancement modifier based on a stat) or Shining Crecesents (a finesseable two-handed weapon with many usual traits). Maybe take a step further and make unusual armor in similar fashion.

[Qhualor]

Fully upgraded melee weapons:

Heroic: 1.5W
Epic: 5W
Effects:

• Element Vulnerability (applies a 1% vulnerability to the element that lasts 3 seconds, can be added every 2 seconds, and can stack 20 times)
• Maiming (new level of the effect for Epic)
• Elemental Energy Burst (new level for Epic version)
• Elemental Area of Effect (New levels for both Heroic and Epic versions)
• Purple Augment Slot

Fully upgraded melee casters:

Heroic: 1.5W
Epic: 5W
Effects:

• Elemental Spell Power Increase (new level for Epic)
• Elemental Lore (new level for Epic)
• Spell Penetration (new level for Epic)
• Riposte (new level for Epic)
• Purple Augment Slot

Fully Upgraded Ranged Weapons:

Heroic: 1.5W
Epic: 5W
Effects:

• Element Vulnerability
• Crippling
• Seeker
• Elemental Energy Burst
• Purple Augment Slot

Fully Upgraded Armor:

Effects:

• Fortification
• Elemental Absorption (new level for Epic)
• Lesser Displacement
• Resistance (new level for Epic)
• Green Augment Slot

There will also be some rarer named items that can be found in the random chests throughout the dungeon. These will only drop in Mythic form. Many of the effects will have new levels for the Epic versions. These items will be BtA.

Heroic Weapons: 1.5W
Epic Weapons: 5w

• Spine Bastard Sword - Human Bane, Phlebotomizing, Puncturing, Wounding, Purple Augment Slot
• Frost Scimitar - Evil Outsider Bane, Good, Silver, Freezing Ice, Purple Augment Slot
• Quarterstaff - Elemental Bane, Bodyfeeder, Paralyzing, Bewildering, Purple Augment Slot
• Dagger - Incorporeal Bane, Ghost Touch, Greater Dispelling, Assassination, Purple Augment Slot
• Bow - Human Bane, Improved Destruction, Maiming, Ranged Alacrity, Purple Augment Slot
• Fire Pick - Construct Bane, adamantine, Fire Burst, Telekinetic, Purple Augment Slot
• Spike Club - Elemental Bane, Vampirism, Hardened Spikes, Improved Destruction, Purple Augment Slot

• Horseshoe Crab Shield - Natural Armor, Exceptional Sheltering, Improved Bashing, Exceptional Seeker, Purple Augment Slot

• Golden Skull Orb - General Elemental Absorption, Energy Siphon, Insightful Spell Lore II, Purple Augment Slot, Orange Augment Slot

Possible levels of some of the new effects:

New High level of Elemental Area of Effect - 30d3 + 90
New Low level of Elemental Area of Effect (for level 7) - 6d3 + 18

Epic Elemental Energy Burst - 6d6 on hit, critical deals an additional 4d10 x2, 6d10 x3, 8d10 x4
Epic Maiming - x2 8d6, x3 12d6, x4 16d6

Elemental Vulnerability – Similar to Frostbite, it is a 1% vulnerability to a specific element, can stack to 20, can be applied once every 2 seconds, expires a count in 3 seconds, is unique

Elemental Spell Lore - 23%
Elemental Spell Power – 156%

Epic Phlebotomizing - 5d8

Epic Puncturing - 3d4 constitution damage
Epic Bone Breaking - 3d4 dexterity damage
Epic Enfeebling - 3d4 Strength damage

Epic Wounding - 3 constitution damage
Epic Maladroit - 3 dexterity damage

Epic Assassination +6

Specific Elemental Absorption - 35%
Resistance - +14

ive sporadically been reading the thread and ive noticed there are a lot of posts on these weapons in epics. I understand why because "we breeze through level 7 so quickly that the weapons will be mostly twink gear until greensteel". anything I say is based more on personal opinion and talking both epic and heroic.

I hardly come across anybody that stops long enough at a certain heroic level to farm gear to use. the most common way to do this is take your higher level character into those quests and speed run them for what you want. you can see this quite obviously across the game. im not saying this is a bad thing, just saying I doubt many will pause long enough to get these items at level 7. progression takes precedence over most things in DDO.

for the most part, the weapon affects are fine. although I have issue with seeker on a weapon in heroics. you can get a random loot item with seeker on it, but generally its just not needed. mobs tend to go down fairly easily without needing to be buffed to the gills. something like seeker in heroics is more of a luxury to have if you can fit it than it would be for epics.

lesser displacement in heroics is going to be pretty powerful. 25% miss chance at level 7 is pretty powerful. I would suggest replacing it with blur.

the named weapons I personally have no desire to want, except maybe the bow if its a longbow for my tempest ranger as just another option to use when he needs to pull one out. its mainly because I play with flavor in mind and build around that flavor. I have characters that use mainly greatswords, dwarven axes, longswords, longbows and greataxes and I see none in that list. the quarterstaff and scimitar is a ways down the road for when I do plan on making new characters.

what sticks out like sore thumbs though is Frost Scimitar with evil outsider and frost. just glancing through the evil outsider list, it seems the majority of evil mobs you wont encounter until Vale. theres very few I knew of from that list that you will find below Vale like Malicia, Pale Fire and Fire Reavers from Threnal. not very useful at level 7 area. than I believe many evil outsiders are either immune or highly resistant to cold damage.

the quarterstaff is an elemental bane weapon but has bewildering on it. I don't think elementals care that much about their wisdom score.

im pretty sure its been covered pretty well with the dagger. you know, a ghost touch weapon with assassination on it. not a good mix.

the fire pick is a construct weapon that is a piercing, has fire burst and is telekinetic. these 3 things don't belong on a weapon.

I see you guys have taken notice to the posts about stat damage in epics. no reason to rehash that.

[maddong]

So to make it a must purchase pack:

1. Remove the crafting. We already have thunderforged which you can do to T2 without running the raid. We are going to get greensteel eventually, that can be our next crafting pack.

2. Add some unique augments. Some ideas: insightful saves, deadly, accuracy, concordant opposition, elemental or greater elemental spell power

3. Something really good that only drops on epic elite that is bind to character on equip. People will be farming it like mad trying to get it to sell. If you make it really hard on epic elite then our characters have something to strive for (being able to do this quest on epic elite). How about a displacement clicky for people that don't want to run the shroud with level 28 characters?

[Tilomere]

del

[RTFM]

This all looks pretty good for the most part, but I find the Ranged Weapon effects to be a bit lacking. Crippling isn't all that useful since the effect rarely makes a big different in movement speeds, and Seeker is something that is much better obtained on gear. I'd rather have another damage effect on a ranged weapon.

Crippling is underrated. It procs on a CRIT (very nice on builds with a high crit-per-minute, i.e.: rangers, monkchers, monks, SWF bards, SWF pali, etc.). And yes, it slows movement by 50% (which is a lot and very nice in the event you need to kite or run from damage to heal up, re-buff, drink pots, etc.). I find it especially useful on EE or elites (there is no save, only bosses are immune, even most undead get crippled).

[LightBear]

Crippling is underrated. It procs on a CRIT (very nice on builds with a high crit-per-minute, i.e.: rangers, monkchers, monks, SWF bards, SWF pali, etc.). And yes, it slows movement by 50% (which is a lot and very nice in the event you need to kite or run from damage to heal up, re-buff, drink pots, etc.). I find it especially useful on EE or elites (there is no save, only bosses are immune, even most undead get crippled).

Shhhhh, don't tell them... before we know it nice things get needed.

[AbyssalMage]

Honestly, I am glad they are not introducing more power creep, regardless of some forumites complaining that they want more. If the difficulty of the adventure matches the quality of loot, I will be fine with the expansion.

I just hope the items compete with older items, they don't need to be superior (therefor causing more power creep), but makes me decide and contemplate which item I would like more to equip. This should be the true objective of a item developer. It has also been sorely missing in DDO for quite awhile. If they accomplish this, bravo.

[Bladebolt]

So IF I read this right no two handed weapons in this update?

[Eth]

So IF I read this right no two handed weapons in this update?

The weapons cover all types of weapons, so yes you can get two handers.
The special mythic weapons have no two hander though, that's correct (unless you want to count the q-staff).

[Nascoe]

I really would like to see a nice named crossbow and staff dropping in the content. The named staff is in there, I just hope you streamline what it does a bit and i REALLY hope it will be made of something a bit more durable!

And yes, please add a repeater, I am fine if its a light repeater for the heroic version (rogues won't be proficient with heavy repeaters at lvl 6-7 anyway and there's really none available so far) the epic one should be a heavy repeater and should be about ML 24-26 to be of use. A normal heavy crossbow would be a nice touch too (slower but with more beefed up burst)

I know that the option is there to find and upgrade more or less all weapons in the mushroom system (no shields however, a big shame it would be nice to be able to build a "shield of Element" in several versions for good protection as a item to switch to), but would be good if the mythic things tie in with the rogue upgrade a bit.

Oh, and what kind of shield is the "horseshoe crab shield" is it a buckler (the cove one is still the only one for heroics, and one of 3 options on epic), a light shield (are there any named ones at all), is it a heavy shield or a tower shield?

[NoWorries]

One other addition with ToEE is that Epic Elite end chests will have the chance of dropping 6->7 ability upgrade tomes.


Given the state of this update, new augments are not an option to replace the current loot, nor is switching over to accessory slots vs weapons a feasible approach at this time.


The specific named items are all new art which is part of the reason why they are the weapons/items that they are.


Currently, the dagger is being looked into for other possible effects to make it more desirable. We are happy to continue to discuss other specific items and the effects they have for possible changes.


The upgradeable items also have a mythic upgrade component meaning that they can get the new mythic effects just as the named ones will have.

[Monkey-Boy]

One other addition with ToEE is that Epic Elite end chests will have the chance of dropping 6->7 ability upgrade tomes.

How will these be bound? BTA? BTC? Not bound?