Rogue - Mechanic (and Traps) Proposed Changes

[gwonbush]

So nobody is mislead: the cores DO increase the sneak attack range, just not at the amount that the description states (at least according to flagged's testing).

[Ausdoerrt]

The poster is referring to the absence of a sneak attack die being added to thrown weapons on tier 1-5 sharpshooter by design, not a bug.

Similar to the way bows can't use the targeting sites, some confusing choices have been made for the tree as a whole. I am using GxB myself, so it is working fine, but there is little to no way you can use the Bow, throwing weapons, with any kind of effectiveness.

Yeah, at first I was excited to roll a bow mechanic, but after playing around with it, the addition of bows and thrown weapons seems kind of half-hearted.

[VinoeWhines]

Why don't they add DEX to damage on the Mechanic Tree as well, since the Assassin change, INT based assassins have been improved, but not INT based Mechanic. There should be a DEX'd based Mechanic as well, so that Mechanics can have a DEX'd based damage option, whichever is higher.

[Tlorrd]

Here are the proposed changes for the Rogue Mechanic tree.

Trap Update

Constructed Traps will be have the following changes:

• The time to set a trap will change to 1 second.
• The time for a trap to arm after it has been set down will change to one second.
• The cooldown between setting traps will be changed to 8 seconds.
• The time traps persist for will be lowered to 60 seconds.
• New traps for higher levels will be introduced with higher damage. Players will be able to craft traps all the way up to level 27, with an appropriate increase in damage.
• Trap feedback will be sent to the player who set the trap. This means you will see damage numbers for your traps.

Note that the DC for elemental traps and spell traps will remain as they are on live, using a percentage of Disable Device and increased by Mechanic and Artificer talents.

• Grenade DCs will be increased to 10 + (Minimum Required Level * 2) for heroic, and 10 + (Minimum Required Level * 3) for epic levels.
• New grenades with higher minimum levels and increased damage will be introduced.

Core Abilities

• Tanglefoot: Acid Damage scales with 200% Ranged Power. Both DCs are now 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier.
• Improved Detection: You also gain +1 to hit, +1 damage, and 1 extra Sneak Attack die with bows, crossbows and thrown weapons.
• Expert Builder: You gain a +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range and Critical Multiplier for bows, crossbows and thrown weapons. Critical Multiplier increases to +2 for great crossbows.
• Hip Flask: The action boost portion of Hip Flask now also heals you for 10d6 and adds +10 to Dodge and Maximum Dodge when activated. The healing scales with 200% Ranged Power. The Dodge and Maximum Dodge last for 10 seconds.

Tier One

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Lacerating Shots: The Bleed scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Thunderstone: The damage scales with 200% Ranged Power. The DC is now 12/16/20 + Rogue Level + Intelligence bonus.

Tier Two

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Wand and Scroll Mastery: (1/1/1 AP)

Tier Three

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Wrack Construct: Damage is increased to 3d6/6d6/9d6. Damage scaled with 200% Ranged Power.
• Ooze Flask: The DC is increased to 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier. Also reduces all types of the target's Damage Resistance by 10/20/30 with no saving throw. Damage now scales by 200% Ranged Power.

Tier Four

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Fletching. You are skilled at enhancing, salvaging and re-purposing your arrows, bolts, and throwing weapons. You gain 10 Ranged Power and your ammunition gains 50%/65%/80% returning chance.
• Leg Shot: Also does +2/+4/+6[W] damage.

Tier Five

• Sharpshooter: +3 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +6.
• Mechanical Reloader: You reload repeating crossbows 20% faster, draw thrown weapons 20% faster, and reload non-repeating crossbows 40% faster.
• Time Bomb: Cooldown is now 20 seconds. Time to set the bomb is now very fast. Time before exploding is now 2 seconds. Saving Throw to negate knockdown now uses your Disable Device skill as the DC.
• Sniper: (2 AP): You gain 1 extra sneak attack die with bows, crossbows and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase this to 2 sneak attack dice and also gain +1[W]. Great crossbows now Vorpal on a 19-20.

Sev~

Couple of things I'd like volunteer to update from original above and current game ...

Traps:
- Change timing so that the animation and time trap is armed to 1 second total ... the game speed has increased in all areas
- Change cooldown of traps to 3 or 4 seconds ... again at that time the thought was that folks would be laying an army of traps before encounters ... that has proven to be untrue in the current game standards of semi to full zerg ... rather traps should be useful both in battle ground planning and heat of the moment battle ... like Regular vs Quickened Sleet Storm or other AOE CC spell ... it can be used pre-battle and during battle
- Grenade and Mine DCs should be same as Elemental and Spell DCs ... why have different scaling systems in today's game?
- Grenade and Mine damage should scale with 200% (or 400%) MP or RP, whichever is higher ... this is still a pittance compared to not using these at all

Spell Traps to possibly add: Sleet Storm, Solid Fog, Acid Fog, some other new cool idea ... maybe something from the new alchemist spell list.

Mechanic:
Add 2 more alchemical traps
- Change DCs to be either DD related or scale appropriately in more difficult content
- Timebomb - make more reliable for terrain issues or change it into a shot that does the damage and knockdown (Cooldown 12 secs)

Sharpshooter line change to +1/+2 and +1 SA dice with GXB and +1/+1 with no additional SA dice for any other XB
Fletching - add metalline to your bolts in addition to what it currently gives now
- change the return rate to 70/80/95% ... this is T4 and given at T2 in Falconry (this doesn't save me AP by having to then spend 8 AP in Falconry for same effect)
Expert Builder - add back in +1 Crit range with GXB as originally intended. This is very deep in cores and thus requires Rogue commitment, or add it to capstone
Hip Flask - boost this to be a 30 second boost (not action boost) with 90 sec cooldown that really adds the max dodge, dodge, damage to the boost as well as a heal DOT for those 30 secs. There should be a reason that is compelling to take this capstone rather than no good reason. Add in RP and/or doubleshot for GXB.
Rapid Fire - change to 5/10/20% Double shot ... give me a reason to go T5 in mechanic
Move Light Repeater prof to Core 2 (level 3)
Move Heavy Repeater prof to Core 3 (level 6)
Give Precision feat at Core 4 (level 12)
Give Shot on the Run feat at Core 5 or Core 6 (Level 18 or 20)

Currently T5 Inq and Inq capstone give me no reason to take T5 in mechanic or its capstone. Currently they are mutually exclusive thus please make it compelling to choose one over the other.

Thanks for reading.

[Kutalp]

Couple of things I'd like volunteer to update from original above and current game ...

Traps:
- Change timing so that the animation and time trap is armed to 1 second total ... the game speed has increased in all areas
- Change cooldown of traps to 3 or 4 seconds ... again at that time the thought was that folks would be laying an army of traps before encounters ... that has proven to be untrue in the current game standards of semi to full zerg ... rather traps should be useful both in battle ground planning and heat of the moment battle ... like Regular vs Quickened Sleet Storm or other AOE CC spell ... it can be used pre-battle and during battle
- Grenade and Mine DCs should be same as Elemental and Spell DCs ... why have different scaling systems in today's game?
- Grenade and Mine damage should scale with 200% (or 400%) MP or RP, whichever is higher ... this is still a pittance compared to not using these at all

Spell Traps to possibly add: Sleet Storm, Solid Fog, Acid Fog, some other new cool idea ... maybe something from the new alchemist spell list.

Mechanic:
Add 2 more alchemical traps
- Change DCs to be either DD related or scale appropriately in more difficult content
- Timebomb - make more reliable for terrain issues or change it into a shot that does the damage and knockdown (Cooldown 12 secs)

Sharpshooter line change to +1/+2 and +1 SA dice with GXB and +1/+1 with no additional SA dice for any other XB
Fletching - add metalline to your bolts in addition to what it currently gives now
- change the return rate to 70/80/95% ... this is T4 and given at T2 in Falconry (this doesn't save me AP by having to then spend 8 AP in Falconry for same effect)
Expert Builder - add back in +1 Crit range with GXB as originally intended. This is very deep in cores and thus requires Rogue commitment, or add it to capstone
Hip Flask - boost this to be a 30 second boost (not action boost) with 90 sec cooldown that really adds the max dodge, dodge, damage to the boost as well as a heal DOT for those 30 secs. There should be a reason that is compelling to take this capstone rather than no good reason. Add in RP and/or doubleshot for GXB.
Rapid Fire - change to 5/10/20% Double shot ... give me a reason to go T5 in mechanic
Move Light Repeater prof to Core 2 (level 3)
Move Heavy Repeater prof to Core 3 (level 6)
Give Precision feat at Core 4 (level 12)
Give Shot on the Run feat at Core 5 or Core 6 (Level 18 or 20)

Currently T5 Inq and Inq capstone give me no reason to take T5 in mechanic or its capstone. Currently they are mutually exclusive thus please make it compelling to choose one over the other.

Thanks for reading.

Greetings Tlorrd.

[Hazelnut]

- Change cooldown of traps to 3 or 4 seconds ... again at that time the thought was that folks would be laying an army of traps before encounters ... that has proven to be untrue in the current game standards of semi to full zerg ... rather traps should be useful both in battle ground planning and heat of the moment battle ... like Regular vs Quickened Sleet Storm or other AOE CC spell

Or, alternatively, add trap effects to grenades? So rogues can throw web grenades and other AoE type things.

But I can see actually using traps (I play rogues, I like traps) if I could kite and drop traps as I run. But this would need to work more like kiting and shooting.

Also trap (and grenade) damage is so low compared to crossbows that I have taken to just ignoring them.

Plus, traps disappear too quickly to be able to lay down a selection of traps before bringing in the mobs.

The only time I use traps now is when soloing where I know I have choke points to drop web and other CC type traps. I can't collect enough trap parts to use them as a primary tool.

Likewise, I only use grenades for specific targets where I don't have good weapons (like against undead/ghosts when I haven't got the right weapons). Same problem as with traps. Not enough ingredients to use as a primary tool.

[Kutalp]

Rogue Interplanar Practitioner :


The new and revamped Rogue Mechanic. Education Archeology, Engineering, Arcane lore, Divine lore, Wilderness lore, Electronic technician, Computer studies.(Astrophysics etc)


1) Flash Strike: A trap that blinds hostile npcs. Aoe effect. Calculated over Your highest ability stat + Character level (Up to 30) + Disable trap skill. Timer upgrades with character level.

2) System Shock: A trap that slows, fatiques, confuses, nauseates hostile npcs with rolls to % chance. Calculated over Your highest ability + Character level (to 30) + Disable trap skill. (Said additional effects are added through Mechanic enhancements and levels to trap)

3) Server Down: A trap that casts web and chance to Hold aoe with timer. Calculated over your highest ability + Character level (to 30) + Disable trap skill. (Said additional effects are added through Mechanic enhancements and levels to trap)


4) Clockwork monsters

with uniques effects. They vanish after timer. They re neither summon nor companion. [The power of healing and other buffs or debuffs over monsters is calculated over Highest ability stat+ Character level + Disable trap skill + Use magic device skill]


4a) Mechanical trap Casts clockwork small Rust monster that drops hostile npcs attack and damage ability drastically as if eating their weapons.


4b) Mechanical trap Casts clockwork small Basilisk monster that has calculated chances for turning hostile to stone with a cone attack. If npc fails the saves. Effect is permanent.


4c) Mechanical trap Casts clockwork replica of Celestial Planeforged Has the ability to heal the Mechanic and the team. Can locate Blade barrier. Through levels new spell like effects for buff and healing can be added.



5) Repair/Dismantle Construct. Aoe effect trap first Dazes Constructs without save then Dismantles (Hostile npc) them or Repair them (Friendly player or npcs construct). -amount every turn/- amount. Upgrades with character level + Highest ability stat + Disable trap skill + Use magic device skill.


6) Mechanical armor/Weapon. (lvl 8+) Gives the mechanic extra carry limit. Elemental resistance scaling with level. Temprorary hitpoints and Deflect arrows ability. Extra saves. Upgrades with Mechanic levels and character levels.

Mech weapon toggle effect: Choose type +1d6 lvl2/2d6 lvl5/4d8 lvl8 /6d10 lvl 12/8d12 16/ 10d14 lvl 24 20d20 lvl 30 /Force/Sonic/Elemental effects. Upgrades through Mechanic level, Character level up to lvl 30. (Can not be activated with Inquisitve like enhancement trees. Works only with Mechanical weapons)



7) Mechanical Planar Gift Box: Carried and upgraded by the character through levels: Upgrades with Rogue level, Character level, Highest stat, Search, Spot, Disable traps, Use Magic/Electronic device.

Spell like abilites cast by Mechanical Gift Box with cooldown : Grease (lvl1) Upgrades with character level and your highest stat, Shield (lvl3), Invisiblity (lvl5),Hologram (lvl6), Dimension door (lvl8), Planar Dismissal Upgrades with character level and your highest stat (lvl 9), Teleport (lvl10),Planar Globe of Invulnerability (lvl 11), Planar Shadowalk (lvl12), Planar Banisment(lvl13) Upgrades with character level and your highest stat, Greater teleport (lvl15), Planeshift (lvl20) Teleport between settings.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5VpFN7DNrw


Thanks for reading

[Souless]

Here are the proposed changes for the Rogue Mechanic tree.

Trap Update

Constructed Traps will be have the following changes:

• The time to set a trap will change to 1 second.
• The time for a trap to arm after it has been set down will change to one second.
• The cooldown between setting traps will be changed to 8 seconds.
• The time traps persist for will be lowered to 60 seconds.
• New traps for higher levels will be introduced with higher damage. Players will be able to craft traps all the way up to level 27, with an appropriate increase in damage.
• Trap feedback will be sent to the player who set the trap. This means you will see damage numbers for your traps.

Note that the DC for elemental traps and spell traps will remain as they are on live, using a percentage of Disable Device and increased by Mechanic and Artificer talents.

• Grenade DCs will be increased to 10 + (Minimum Required Level * 2) for heroic, and 10 + (Minimum Required Level * 3) for epic levels.
• New grenades with higher minimum levels and increased damage will be introduced.

Having only limited use of traps I don't have much to say. Other than to say FASTER is BETTER. No one will wait while a rogue is laying down traps. At least the players I run with will go sprint boosting by and kill everything while ur still tying ur shoe.

Core Abilities

• Tanglefoot: Acid Damage scales with 200% Ranged Power. Both DCs are now 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier.
• Improved Detection: You also gain +1 to hit, +1 damage, and 1 extra Sneak Attack die with bows, crossbows and thrown weapons.
• Expert Builder: You gain a +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range and Critical Multiplier for bows, crossbows and thrown weapons. Critical Multiplier increases to +2 for great crossbows.
• Hip Flask: The action boost portion of Hip Flask now also heals you for 10d6 and adds +10 to Dodge and Maximum Dodge when activated. The healing scales with 200% Ranged Power. The Dodge and Maximum Dodge last for 10 seconds.

Any discussion of rogue core abilities MUST include auto-find/auto-disable traps. Anything short of adding these to ALL rogue trees is a slap in the face to any non-Inq rogue.

Also, the Hipflask is ineffective at best. When compared against others, it is one of the worst in the game.

Tier One

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Lacerating Shots: The Bleed scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Thunderstone: The damage scales with 200% Ranged Power. The DC is now 12/16/20 + Rogue Level + Intelligence bonus.

Tier Two

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Wand and Scroll Mastery: (1/1/1 AP)

Tier Three

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Wrack Construct: Damage is increased to 3d6/6d6/9d6. Damage scaled with 200% Ranged Power.
• Ooze Flask: The DC is increased to 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier. Also reduces all types of the target's Damage Resistance by 10/20/30 with no saving throw. Damage now scales by 200% Ranged Power.

Tier Four

• Crossbow Training: Now called Sharpshooter. +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2.
• Fletching. You are skilled at enhancing, salvaging and re-purposing your arrows, bolts, and throwing weapons. You gain 10 Ranged Power and your ammunition gains 50%/65%/80% returning chance.
• Leg Shot: Also does +2/+4/+6[W] damage.

Tier Five

• Sharpshooter: +3 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +6.
• Mechanical Reloader: You reload repeating crossbows 20% faster, draw thrown weapons 20% faster, and reload non-repeating crossbows 40% faster.
• Time Bomb: Cooldown is now 20 seconds. Time to set the bomb is now very fast. Time before exploding is now 2 seconds. Saving Throw to negate knockdown now uses your Disable Device skill as the DC.
• Sniper: (2 AP): You gain 1 extra sneak attack die with bows, crossbows and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase this to 2 sneak attack dice and also gain +1[W]. Great crossbows now Vorpal on a 19-20.

Sev~

These actually look good. I have a couple of questions:
1. Does leg shot still slow down the target(s)?
2. Ooze flask? Does this ability work with bows/crossbows?

The Bytcher~

Souless/Spectyr/Xbow/Valice/Tazzor/Xindao
Ascent

[PsychoBlonde]

This thread is 5 years old, dude. That ship has sailed.

[Cordovan]

Closing as /necro.