Help with Monk Stick Build

[Arikzael]

Hey folks. Planning on TR'ing a toon into his third life (36 pt build), and I'd love to make a stick monk using the Henshin tree. I've never played a monk before, and I was curious as to stat distribution and splashes that would make him viable in EE content. I've seen a few things, but without having to scroll through pages of possibly outdated info, I was hoping someone would have some pointers. I know STR and WIS are important, but it looks like Henshin mixes well with the Fire stance, so I don't quite know how to balance those since you lose WIS.

In terms of feats I know that IC feats with Monks (at least 20 base crit weapon monks) don't shine the way they do with other weapons, so other than the THF line, I was wondering if the cleave line would be a good route or if whirling blow would prove to be a better route. Stunning Blow is nice too I know but the DCs in end game seem like they would get easily made without fighter Tactical DC boost or LD DC boost, if not both.

In any case, any suggestions would be awesome, as I hope to TR him by next week

[unbongwah]

IMHO, every staff build should have at least two rog lvls for Acrobatics (+15% atk speed) and Quick Strike (Acro ver. has 12-sec. CD vs Henshin's 20-sec. CD); your DPS takes a significant hit w/out both. You will also definitely want +1 crit range & multiplier bonus from either Staff Specialization (rog or monk 5) or Holy Sword (pal 14+). After that, you have some flexibility with the rest of your levels.

[ddorimble]

IMHO, every staff build should have at least two rog lvls for Acrobatics (+15% atk speed) and Quick Strike (Acro ver. has 12-sec. CD vs Henshin's 20-sec. CD); your DPS takes a significant hit w/out both. You will also definitely want +1 crit range & multiplier bonus from either Staff Specialization (rog or monk 5) or Holy Sword (pal 14+). After that, you have some flexibility with the rest of your levels.

Seconded.

Also, for full disclosures sake, I haven't really tried Henshin...but as a one-time exclusively Monk playing person...I really can't find anything to be attracted to there. The screwed up half-ass castery-ness of it looks so unappealing. I'd personally not go beyond Monk 6 for Shadow Veil and a little bit from Henshin or Shintao and leave it at that. There are some good Dodgey updates planned for Thief Acrobat, so I'd probably look at the good old Rogue 12 / Monk 6 / Something 2 (probably Paladin). Tier 5 Acrobat, Shadow Veil, and a little bit from everything else.

You can also get some pretty good benefit from 3 Druid with Ram's Might, Shillelagh, and Fatal Harrier. Trade the defense of Paladin 2 for some offense. I might look at Rogue 11 / Monk 6 / Druid 3 for that.

I've also given up on Tactics (Stunning Blow and the like) because I got tired of chasing every single last +1 DC bonus just to get them to work. They don't work on bosses anyways and I've ended up much less stressed from it (every time I fought something I couldn't use tactics on I just couldn't help but think "Whelp, that's like 6 equipment enchantment slots and I don't know how many Enhancements and ED abilities that are doing absolutely NOTHING for me right now..."). Not sure how other people feel about that though.

[Arikzael]

Okay all good to know. So if delving more into TA, would you max DEX over STR and would Power Attack/Cleave be a better route than Precision/Whirlwind (or something else)?

[Arikzael]

Ah well to take THF you need 15 str, so I guess that answers that.

[Sunnie]

As far as I know, Whirlwind Attack is unique in that it only works properly when you're fighting unarmed, if you're using weapons you want the cleaves. Though with the high attack speed of Q-staves and all those glancing blows, cleave and GC may actually end up dealing less damage than simply swinging away does. Additionally, Cleave and GC do NOT proc doublestrikes and as such do not benefit at all from Quick Strike.

I did some testing to check that a few days ago since I'll TR into a barbarian with a stick soon. I've decided to ditch the cleaves and focus on glancing blow damage and doublestrike instead.

[Kodwraith]

I completely agree with what Ung said up above, you really really want two rogue levels for the +15% attach speed on sticks from the ThiefAcrobat line.

A great split is 1rogue/12monk/1rogue / 6 monk take the second rogue level for the skills and for the better version of Quick Strike in the TA tree. You'll want all the various THF feats and PA. You'll be running around in Earth stance basically all the time using T5 from Henshin. Ironically, the henshin Capstone is the least useless of all the the monk capstones and it's still not worth nearly as much as 2 levels of rogue. You might also consider the split 12monk/6rogue/2something else. The new TA line is more powerful then henshin and you can free up a lot of AP. You sill want monk for the stances, but you can just take Grandmaster as your regular 18th level feat.

There isn't anyway I know of to get WIS to hit/dmg with staff (or anythign), so you're primary stat is really STR if you take StunningBlow OR DEX if you don't. Might consider putting some points in INT to get enough skill points for basic trapping since it's worth a lot of xp.

[Valakai]

A little bit old thread but just thought I'd share my experience. Currently running a MNK12/ROG7/DRD1 at level 23. Acrobat to tier 5. Bit of Henshin for offence or Shintao for more PRR. I use GM wind and stone depending on situation. DEX based with secondary in INT for Know the Angles. Druid for Shillelagh and Ram's might and to get Emp Heal for Cocoon. Ninja spy for Shadow Veil. It is very solid DPS as well as survivability also love the run speed and Wings from monk 12.

[Valakai]

A little bit old thread but just thought I'd share my experience.

Currently running a MNK12/ROG7/DRD1 at level 23. Took acrobat to tier 5. Bit of Henshin for offence or Shintao for more PRR - I keep changing these around a bit.
I am dex based with secondary in INT for Know the Angles.Also had 15 starting STR +2 tome to get all the THF goodness. Dumped CHA and WIS as there simply were not enough points....

Druid level was taken for Shillelagh and Ram's might and to get Emp Heal for Cocoon. Ninja spy for Shadow Veil. It is very solid DPS as well as survivability also love the run speed and Wings from monk 12.

I use GM wind and stone depending on situation. Thanks to high DEX and improved evasion AOEs are not a problem. Can handle traps as well thanks to high INT.

[Sebastrd]

I'm planning to TR into one of these this weekend.

I'll either go 12 Mnk/7 rog/1 Dru or 12 Mnk/5 Rog/3 Dru. Either way, I'll be taking my tier 5 enhancements from TA, not Henshin. Go Str over Dex, because there are far more ways to pump Str than there are to pump Dex for DPS and DCs. I wouldn't worry too much about the cleaves unless you're going into LD, and even then you could skip them if you really want. I'm figuring I'll twist Sense Weakness, Cocoon, and some combination of Primal Scream, Brace, and Unearthly Reactions. I haven't decided on Shadowdancer or GMoF, yet.

[unbongwah]

I'll either go 12 Mnk/7 rog/1 Dru or 12 Mnk/5 Rog/3 Dru. Either way, I'll be taking my tier 5 enhancements from TA, not Henshin. Go Str over Dex, because there are far more ways to pump Str than there are to pump Dex for DPS and DCs.

While normally I would agree with you about STR vs DEX, you may wish to consider DEX-based in this case if you play a DEX race: +2 base DEX + 2 racial DEX enh + 3 Shadow Dodge is on par with Ram's Might + Primal Scream. Going DEX-based helps your Reflex saves and Executioner's Strike DCs, if you go SD instead of LD or GMoF.

[Sebastrd]

While normally I would agree with you about STR vs DEX, you may wish to consider DEX-based in this case if you play a DEX race: +2 base DEX + 2 racial DEX enh + 3 Shadow Dodge is on par with Ram's Might + Primal Scream. Going DEX-based helps your Reflex saves and Executioner's Strike DCs, if you go SD instead of LD or GMoF.

It's for a Shadar-Kai life, so I don't expect to take any of the racial enhancements.

[AbyssalMage]

From my personal experience on mine:

I went Halfling for DM Healing
Initially I went Dex based but LR'd into a Str based. Now I want to switch back into Dex (more to come below)
32 pt build and I wanted the Monk PL and already had a "Monk" on my Main server so this was something "new" to me.

Ok, now that all the background is taken care of. I would personally recommend 12/7/1 Monk, Rogue, Druid or 12/5/3 Monk, Rogue, Fighter split over any deeper splash with Monk. Unfortunately Henshin is a pile of garbage in its current state. There is no synergy between its abilities and how the game currently functions. The DC's are Wisdom based yet Dexterity or Strength will determine how you kill things. Worse, the damage you deal with these attacks are very minor in relation to the NPC's HP pools.

Strength or Dexterity? With the revamp of Rogue, Dexterity is the clear winner for me. Boosts your AC, Evasion, and helps you deal damage. I also noticed a slight decrease in my survivability after the LR and attribute that to the switch to Strength.

Halfling, Elf, or Human? Honestly, I think I would get better mileage out of Elf than the other two if I had to do it over again. Heroics would definitely be harder but once into Epic's, you have two very good choices to keep you up and running. I've come to love DD and GH on my Pure Monk but I wouldn't call them game changers. Displacement on the other hand was nerfed by the development team for a reason. I give a slight nod to Elf for this reason only because I am thinking about long term.

Druid or Fighter? Druid gives you Metamagics while Fighter gives you Stalwart Defense and a feat (or two). Going 3 fighter also compliments going Dex based. 3 levels of Paladin is also possible (in retrospect) if you want to focus on a third stat.

Cleave/G.Cleave? I currently run with both and find that I am already pushing enough buttons so they get left out. Maybe if I liked smashing more buttons. Also, it is definitely less DPS unless swarmed which you should avoid as much as possible.

Str: 14 (or what is takes to get to 17)
Dex: 20 (or 18 if human)
Int: 14 (or 12 if Human)
Con: everything else

Feats:
Precision = Bypass Fortification for SA
THF x 3 = 14 + 3 Tome to qualify. I personally love weapon effects.
IC: Bludgeon
GMoF

So there are 6 feats, you have 4 remaining open.
7 General + 3 Monk (+2 if you go Fighter, not included in above totals)

A build I seen a person use was Int based using Harper and KTA. He was using a Supreme +5 Tomes (thanks to DDO Store) so he was able to start with lower Strength/Dexterity at creation and still qualify for THF feats and Precision. He had Doge/Mobility as two of his selected Feats also.

[Sebastrd]

I talked it over with a guildy yesterday, and he also recommended Dex-based with a pally splash.

After looking it over, Druid is basically a non-starter for me. Shillelagh looks great until you realize that the two best endgame staves, Sireth and Thunderforged, are metal. Ram's Might is only nice on a Strength build. Someone mentioned Fatal Harrier up-thread, but you have to wade through a lot of garbage enhancements to get to it. The nail in the coffin is that Sweeping Strikes is a Dex-based attack, not Strength.