Is spell pen. necesary for a CC Spellsinger?

[xrampage]

Planning to go for a CC/Nuking/bit of healing SS and I'd like to know if it is really necesary (so I spend my time doing Wiz and FVS lifes) or I can just skip that and start gearing for it. Thanks in advance.

[MadCookieQueen]

if disco ball doesn't cut it (usually EE drow needs spell pen, most of epic content doesn't need a SUPER HEAVY investment in it) There's always Fascinate, though just let your party know that you are fascinating so they can be mindful of AoEs

[Enoach]

The Apex of Spell Resistance is the Drow on Epic Elite. While devils and demons also have SR there are many alternatives to dealing with SR you are not able to bypass.

PL of wizard and favored soul simply open up options
1) Used in conjunction with existing feats can help to increase your Spell Penetration
2) Used as a replacement of the feats opening up from 1 to 3 feats for other options

Now I don't recommend completely ignoring Spell Penetration but instead balance your options based on your common difficulty level and your ability to use CC that does not need a Spell Penetration check.

Spells like Web, Sleet Storm, Stinking cloud, Solid Fog, Acid Fog, and Cloudkill don't have Spell penetration checks (All Conjuration) but also don't provide the same level of CC as their Enchantment alternatives such as Dance and Holds.

I recommend the following based on your play style, gear and experience. Adjust your feats and gear based on the level of success you are looking for based on your primary ED, gear as well as your primary difficulty level you plan on running.

PL Feats up to +9 Spell Penetration
Heroic Feats is +2 to +4 Spell Penetration
Epic Feat is +4 Spell Penetration
Gear maxed at +7 Spell Penetration (Thunderholm weapon Tier 2 ML26)
+2 Arcane Augment - Such as Twilight, Element of Magic (note this cannot be used at the same time as a Thunderholm weapon)

[UurlockYgmeov]

The Apex of Spell Resistance is the Drow on Epic Elite. While devils and demons also have SR there are many alternatives to dealing with SR you are not able to bypass.

PL of wizard and favored soul simply open up options
1) Used in conjunction with existing feats can help to increase your Spell Penetration
2) Used as a replacement of the feats opening up from 1 to 3 feats for other options

Now I don't recommend completely ignoring Spell Penetration but instead balance your options based on your common difficulty level and your ability to use CC that does not need a Spell Penetration check.

Spells like Web, Sleet Storm, Stinking cloud, Solid Fog, Acid Fog, and Cloudkill don't have Spell penetration checks (All Conjuration) but also don't provide the same level of CC as their Enchantment alternatives such as Dance and Holds.

I recommend the following based on your play style, gear and experience. Adjust your feats and gear based on the level of success you are looking for based on your primary ED, gear as well as your primary difficulty level you plan on running.

PL Feats up to +9 Spell Penetration
Heroic Feats is +2 to +4 Spell Penetration
Epic Feat is +4 Spell Penetration
Gear maxed at +7 Spell Penetration (Thunderholm weapon Tier 2 ML26)
+2 Arcane Augment - Such as Twilight, Element of Magic (note this cannot be used at the same time as a Thunderholm weapon)

well said. Uurlock is finishing his 3rd life of PDK Bard - and without the PLF from Wiz and FvS - it would have been much harder. even so - sometimes had to swap in a SpellPen item to get those pesky drow.

[unbongwah]

My attitude toward Spell Pen is either go all-in to max it out for when you really need it (i.e., those EE drow); or skip it entirely and have a backup plan for dealing with high-SR foes. In the case of a Spellsinger, that means using Fascinate or your DPS spells instead of Enchantment spells.

[cru121]

I did not invest in spell penetration on my spell singer. I usually use Sonic Blast (spell and SLA) to slow them down, or Greater Shout. That said, I sometimes regret it, like when I meet a hungry Hezrou champion who resists my OID... Even a moderate investment could help.

[slarden]

At the moment spell penetration only matters in lower level epic content where nuking is fine.

I am in the process of updating my bard build and I was going to provide a high spell penetration option, but one of the problems is that 9 of the spell penetration comes from passive past life feats which is a 45% swing vs. not having spell penetration.

Based on the existing formula, it's quite possible that spell resistance #s in the vale are unreachable in EE eVale with current gear, feats and enhancements: http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Resistance

If you don't have the 9 from past life feats I would completely dump spell penetration without hesitation. If you do have the 9 from passive past life feats I would still dump spell penetration for now and consider etr'ing into a build with spell penetration shortly before eVale hits, but that is only if spell resistance #s are workable with every feat, twist, gear and enhancement option. I will be checking that on Lam when it's available. I am skeptical about that based on the existing formula and expected CRs of devils and fiendish creatures in eVale.

[ChadFields]

there is no nuking for bards...spellsingers included. you can throw a disco up all you want, but the dps behind sonic, bard's only dps spells, are so lacking that you will never be a nuker. fascinate is awesome, however, your party will make it an "only in emergencies" sort of thing, otherwise you waste a song. take greater spell penetration, max sp, max songs, and just sit back and relax while you do wonders and get accused of piking....let them think they are the star, while you are quietly aware that your 30 songs at level 15 and total cc abilities are what made the quest completion possible...

[cru121]

there is no nuking for bards...spellsingers included. you can throw a disco up all you want, but the dps behind sonic, bard's only dps spells, are so lacking that you will never be a nuker.

lol. no.

to elaborate: http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_22_Patch_2_Release_Notes

[slarden]

there is no nuking for bards...spellsingers included. you can throw a disco up all you want, but the dps behind sonic, bard's only dps spells, are so lacking that you will never be a nuker.

My spellsinger can clear any EE quest mob in the game quickly with nuking so I would say this is completely false.

[unbongwah]

My spellsinger can clear any EE quest mob in the game quickly with nuking so I would say this is completely false.

Can you do that with just bard spells / SLAs; or are you relying on ED abilities like Energy Burst too?

[BoBoDaClown]

Can you do that with just bard spells / SLAs; or are you relying on ED abilities like Energy Burst too?

You use both your spell-singer abilities and your destiny abilities - combined they fill out a nice array of dps options. Which means you're fine in epic levels - would be more of a struggle in heroics (I guess shout, shout SLA, greater shout and horn of thunder - be SP draining).

Personally if I'm in heroics (which is never) I just use a weapon and then LR at 20.

A lot of builds gain a heck of power through destinies.

To the OP, spell pen is definitely nice to have, but the good thing about bards is you have non spell pen options if you want to skip it for while.