Ideas for TWF feats

[SamaelBael]

Hello DDo community, I recently stepped out of the forum-shadows to write about some things that i love. Assassins and Two Weapon Fighting.

This thread is about the 2wf/ twf feats who missed the last overhaul of melee fighting styles.

My point of view on melee fighting styles:
2hf/ twf: AOE damage
swf: flexibility for spellcasters, single target with AOE possibility (bastard sword/dwarven axe/ 14str for cleaves)
2wf: pure single target damage. most hits per second.
s&b: defense, single target with AOE possibility (bastard sword/dwarven axe/ 14str for cleaves)

Please remember that the last changes to 2wf were a nerf from +x offhand attacks to the attack-chain to +x% chance of producing an offhand attack.
Afaik this was made to reduce weapon proc calculations such as flaming/ bursts and so on. Now we have swf with its insane attack speed due to doublestrike, which is bound to the main hand weapon.
Is there any reason we can not have the original version with the fixed amount of offhand attacks back?

There was once a time where the graphical representation of the fighting resembled the attacks, those times are over... I am not a fan of doubleattack (It favours 2hf/swf/s&b main hand weapons).

I would like 2 things implemented with the next overhaul of Two Weapon Fighting:

*) Attack speed:
2wf gives up any possibility to boost defenses with shield/orb to gain more attacks for more single target dps. This fighting style should represent ambidexterity.
Same amount of attacks (and same ability modifier for damage) of the mainhand should be on the off-hand at GTWF.


*) Movement speed:
The 2wf style is the only style that is balanced and offers no malus to the equilibrium.
How about adding +5%twf, +10%itwf and +20%gtwf(total amount) to the feats? NOT stacking with class and enhancements.
Monks are still the fastest class, then GTWFers, then 2HF barbarians, and the bards... well, they do their own thing anyway^^


Furthermore I would like to point out that the place TWF once hold, now SWF has, the attack speed. in this case, not in the point above, I include doublestrike. Not every hit that counts with TWF has the same chance to doublestrike.
Therefore, SWF benefits a lot more from high doublestrike chances.

To summarise, I would like to see the focus of the future TWF feats on ambidexterity and equilibrium, not melee power. It has a Dexterity requirement, remember?^^


Please Devs, DDo community, what are your ideas for the future TWF builds?
CU in game and social media (great idea with the live-streams btw),
your not so friendly neighbourhood rogue.

[General_Gronker]

*) Attack speed:

What two weapon fighting should offer is pretty easy to figure out
No proficiency: +1 attack, off-hand, every 10 seconds, -10 penalty to attack
Two-weapon Fighting: +1 attack, off-hand, per 4 seconds (I'm being generous here), -5 to attack.
Improved TWF: +1 attack, off-hand every 3 seconds, -3 to attack.
Greater TWF: +1 attack, off-hand every 2 seconds, -1 to attack.
The off-hand attacks should not match, in number, the main hand attacks. This still provides benefits that the others don't in allowing for procs on the off-hand attacks.

*) Movement speed:

This, however, is just bwuh??? There is no logical, or even illogical reason for this.

[SamaelBael]

An offhand-attack every 2sec is practically never.
Procs on the offhand once every 2 sec compared to GSWF with it's +30% attack speed and synergy with doublestrike would not even be noticed. You have to get that 2nd weapon with the procs too (crafted, farmed,...). Disagreeing due to some procs/magical effects on the offhand weapon disregards the runearm/orb for SWF. Even the shields got an offense boost with the vanguard.
I did no testing though, just TWFing with most of my characters.


I thought I explained the reason for movement speed. try running with some heavy object in one hand and then with 2 less heavy objects, 1 in each hand. Why should someone with daggers/shortswords run as slow as someone who is waving a Greatsword around?

Why would that not fit to the TWF line?

[doubledge]

TWF definitely needs a boost, and a style based attack speed boost slightly lower than SWF seems like the most reasonable explanation. (SWF went a bit overboard).

A good percent imo is 5% per feat, leaving you at a +20% at ptwf, and way less than Single weapon fighting.

(PTWF = perfect two weapon fighting, it's an ED feat)

[songswrath]

[QUOTE=doubledge;5552135]TWF definitely needs a boost, and a style based attack speed boost slightly lower than SWF seems like the most reasonable explanation. (SWF went a bit overboard).

A bit overboard to say the least 30% melee speed is a unreal gain. Melee speed is the whole point of some splashes in builds. Like like 1 lvll fighter < for haste boost. In truth i think all the combat styles should have the same melee speed and melee power on each tier tier 1 +3 power 10% speed . tier 2 +3 more power and now 20% speed .and
tier 3 ending with 10+power and 30% speed. The balance between styles is way out of whack. As stands swf >>> thw>>>>> twf.