Rogue - Thief-Acrobat Changes

[spade413]

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

How about adding it as a passive boost associated with spending points in each tree? ("For each point spent in tree, stealth movement speed increases by 1%"). It just seems like something so ingrained to the character concepts that it should "come with the territory", not be something actively chosen. Put a cap on it (and say what the cap is in the description) if you're worried it'll get too high.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

this would ahve to be balanced really carefully.

my initial thought upon reading it was, "great ill just pick up both". then i realized theyd probably be the same type of bonus. then i realized if i had the ap i might still take them both. perhaps make them mutually exclusive.

[Saekee]

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

I assume it will be tier 1 as well? In place of Toxin Affinity or Stealthy? Maybe bring haste boost down to tier 1 like Kensei has (in place of faster sneaking if you remove it) so that haste boost is more accessible to mechanic and assassin builds?

[LordTigerDawn]

Heya,

I have run a thief acro since way back doing my completionist, and still play one today.

Feedback:

Haste Boost: now costs 1/1/1 AP
Good!!

Improved Glancing Blows: Chance increased to 4/8/12%.
I try and max this every life, just because it is funny to see a double proc of lightning strike. Funny thing is this also will increase frozen fury to more than one target sometimes. But I want increased glancing blow dmg like a barb.

Staff Lunge: Damage bonus increased to 2/4/6[W]
I use this, I love this... I use it only because it looks cool, as an ability it is terrible. Reduce cost to 1 point.

Acrobatic Staff Training: You gain +3 to hit and +3 damage with quarterstaves.
I may use this, depends on cost and other options avail.

Momentum Defense: Each time you are struck with an attack you gain +1 to your Dodge and Maximum Dodge for 12 seconds. This stacks up to ten times. (Each hit refreshes all stacks, stacks fall off all at once.)
Never going to use this. To get hit 10 times on EE to get the dodge bonus means dead rogue since hp is not their strong suit. Maybe permanent dodge and max dodge boost? It is tier 5, and the TA tier 5 is empty except for the staff boost. Vault is a fluff ability that the tree it requires is far too expensive (14 points to max it out), that you can get to tier 3 in assassin or mechanic for those points. Much better use.

Sweeping strikes needs cost changed to 1 per tier or changed to 2 tiers for 2 each, same with Lunge.

Vault should cost 1 point.

~ On the threat reduction abilities stack: If they don't specify a bonus type they *should* all stack.
Don't care. Is there not the hard coded max threat reduction at 50% anyways?

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?
Then I would never take the stealth movement boost. The 10% movement boost should be where staff lunge is for 1 point, and have lunge besideit for another tier 4 ability for 1 point of 6W dmg version only.

Lunge... it is slower than normal attack speed, it is much slower than cleaves, it is a fluff ability but I do not want it removed.

Sweeping strikes needs its cool down cut in half. It is essentially a terrible free cleave, that trips zombies for STR toons, but who really complains about free.

Dex staff, I tried one for a life, it was terrible... really really need the dex from from shadow dodge and about 15 more from somewhere else. The dex boost should be in tier 5 to avoid the shuriken abusage. Even a tier 5 ability that gives +2 dex per point and have 5 tiers of it, would not be overpowering for the poor dex stick builds.

[Rautis]

Neat changes. I would love to see return of atleast +10% move speed for acrobats. Level 12 core maybe?

Also agree with importance of DC formulas for special attacks. If they never work because of DC you could just delete the abilities and no one would notice.

[Systern]

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

Before the U19's changes, Acrobats actually had Fast Movement like Barbs and Monks (and now Swashie Bards). I'd love to see it back.

[Robai]

Acrobat tree needs some form of reliable CC for epics.
Even when Sweeping Strike had temporarily 100% chance it wasn't overpowered at all, it didn't work for bosses, also didn't work for quite many monsters (elementals etc.), in necro 4 more than half monsters are immune to it.

[Ranidae]

The reason we are changing it (Sly Flourish) is from our testing activated threat reductions aren't working reliably. Are you seeing good use from it?

Reliably?
No, I had been wondering about that. I couldn't tell if I built up too much aggro, or it wasn't working to reduce threat correctly.

Does it work some of the time? (at least)
YES... I have had mobs turn around, and look for someone else as soon as I tap it. Awfully nice.

Reduce cooldown to your planned 8 secs, and I'm happy.

[ToastyFred]

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

This makes a LOT of sense. I think you may be able to boost the speed even a little more (no more than 20% though) because there's no way a Barbarian with their 10% faster movement should be able to keep up with an Acrobat. Monks should still be able to outrun everyone though. Despite the specifics, which can be further discussed, this idea is certainly right.

Please do this.

[Saekee]

How about adding it as a passive boost associated with spending points in each tree? ("For each point spent in tree, stealth movement speed increases by 1%"). It just seems like something so ingrained to the character concepts that it should "come with the territory", not be something actively chosen. Put a cap on it (and say what the cap is in the description) if you're worried it'll get too high.

Neat changes. I would love to see return of atleast +10% move speed for acrobats. Level 12 core maybe?

Also agree with importance of DC formulas for special attacks. If they never work because of DC you could just delete the abilities and no one would notice.

Putting faster sneaking as part of the core will be detrimental to stealth splash builds (We are a tiny minority but, oh well). Also, if faster sneaking is in a core, the other two rogue trees lose out on it unless they dump x amount of AP to access it. Enhancement trees are about flexibility, or should be anyway.
Note that ninja faster sneaking costs 6 AP, not 3, although it includes passive ki regen at top tier (still too costly).

[patang01]

Some comments on player feedback:

~ On the threat reduction abilities stack: If they don't specify a bonus type they *should* all stack.

~ Staff Lunge animation is something we will look at. The problem is that it's an ability that is hard to get used to but can really work well once you master it. We are wary of changing it for players that get good use from it.

~ I will bring up extra damage to glancing blows with the team.

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

As long as the stealth speed boost is passive and always on, yes. The wording makes it soon like a 20 second speed boost which would be terrible.

[Aliss7]

If you're saying assassins need to hit an active clicky to get to the fast sneak speeds they have now, then no, do not like... at all.

If it is more of an "abundant leap/snowslide/wings" sneak-leap super-cool feature for assassins then I'm on board.

[Sebastrd]

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

I wholeheartedly support that.

[LordTigerDawn]

If you're saying assassins need to hit an active clicky to get to the fast sneak speeds they have now, then no, do not like... at all.

If it is more of an "abundant leap/snowslide/wings" sneak-leap super-cool feature for assassins then I'm on board.

He is saying moving the sneak speed passive boost from Ta to Assassin tree.

[nibel]

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

Please, do this. Assassins are the class build where stealth makes more sense. IMO: Assassin is stelth + single target DPS/instakill; Mechanic is traps (disabling/setting) + crossbow use; and acrobats are attack speed + dodge.

[G_Lich]

Movement bonuses are always welcome, especially with the increased speed of mobs lately, how liw hanging should it be and what would the max possible movespeed be? would it work with bard fast movement? and finally would a bard 15 rog 4 barb 1 get 35% total where a pure bard and monk only get 20? things to think about...

[pjstechie]

~ I will bring up extra damage to glancing blows with the team.

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

I like more glancing blow damage/procs and those are already in other places. It might be a good way to increase core abilities and or other abilities. Also has some fun splashing synergies.

I like the speed changes, although I'm wondering what the stacking rules would be (same bonus as monks?). Also some interesting splashing possibilities (wiz/rogues would probably love it)

[Rynehawk]

Just to throw something out there - what about a t5 ability that lets a rogue evade in armor heavier than light?

[CaptainSpacePony]

Some comments on player feedback:

~ I will bring up extra damage to glancing blows with the team.

I cannot confirm, but have been told that Sireth's glancing behaves differently than other qstaves.

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

That sounds VERY appealing.

[arkonas]

Some comments on player feedback:

~ On the threat reduction abilities stack: If they don't specify a bonus type they *should* all stack.

~ Staff Lunge animation is something we will look at. The problem is that it's an ability that is hard to get used to but can really work well once you master it. We are wary of changing it for players that get good use from it.

~ I will bring up extra damage to glancing blows with the team.

~ How would people feel about replacing the stealth movement boost with a 10% boost that works all the time, and adding a stealth speed boost to assassin instead?

Sev~

im ok with the stealth move. honestly most acrobats dont sneak. they just rush in there swinging away.