Rogue - Assassin Changes

[CThruTheEgo]

I understand what you are saying, but I also agree with feedback that an Intelligence based Assassin has to pay the price to dip into Harper and pay a feat tax to function using Intelligence. If we changed Assassinate to be also Dexterity then it kills the hard choice between Dexterity and Intelligence that exists on in the current revamp.

Sev~

I'm not sure what you mean by "hard choice." There is no hard choice. There's simply no reason to go dex based as a pure assassin. If you want a dex build for dps, then you're much better off splashing, which means you're not using the capstone. In fact, the only real reason to stay pure as a rogue, is for assassinate, in which case you need to be int based if you want it to work. Dex based isn't even a consideration for assassins right now. I'm fine with that personally. I'm just pointing out that dex based isn't an option.

I love Dex builds but really do not see Dex being used for assassinate. Dex builds get the small advantage of having better AC, and if they splash monk they get Wisdom to AC as well (and they save the insightful reflex feat). The build in my sig multiclasses as a 13rogue and gives up assassinate for other goodies. I think that is the way things should go--all INT for the pure assassin or splash around with Dex and give up assassinate.

^This.

[CThruTheEgo]

Giving assassinate chance to every 20 roll may be over-power. I think Sneak Attack crit on crit is proper for Lethality enhancement.

But this is basically what it does in heroic. Why shouldn't it do the same in epics?

Threshold for defensive roll should be raised.

Agreed. Improved defensive roll in acrobat is far too costly for an assassin to be able to take advantage of it.

Let assassins use hide skill to keep sneak state like concentration skill for casters.

It's very annoying to lose assassination chance by just 1 single weak arrow. Even missed or dodged arrow can break sneak.

Casters & Divines can cast in heavy rain of arrows,
but even if that arrow deals just 1 damage,
it can be enough to break well skilled master assasin's assasination chance.

Casters & divine can use even no fail casting with quicken.

/signed.

If you're going this route, could the duration be bumped to fifteen seconds? This way its timer works better with Assassinate.

/signed. Or 12 seconds if the cooldown of assassinate is lowered. It should match the cooldown of assassinate, whatever that ends up being.

Also, this means that there's three bonus-over-time abilities whose bonus falls off all at once (MtF, Nimbleness, Killer) in the Assassin tree. It just seems a bit odd.

Yeah I'm not a fan of these mechanics either.

[Erofen]

I understand what you are saying, but I also agree with feedback that an Intelligence based Assassin has to pay the price to dip into Harper and pay a feat tax to function using Intelligence. If we changed Assassinate to be also Dexterity then it kills the hard choice between Dexterity and Intelligence that exists on in the current revamp.

Sev~

Which pigeonholes assassins into effectively one build. A fair middle ground has been suggested to add int to damage along with the dex to damage in the tree and add insightful reflexes to capstone. This would diversify build options and let each unique rogue have a chance at being effective in the Assassin PrE.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hard choice." There is no hard choice. There's simply no reason to go dex based as a pure assassin. If you want a dex build for dps, then you're much better off splashing, which means you're not using the capstone. In fact, the only real reason to stay pure as a rogue, is for assassinate, in which case you need to be int based if you want it to work. Dex based isn't even a consideration for assassins right now. I'm fine with that personally. I'm just pointing out that dex based isn't an option.

^This.

[bbqzor]

I don't know why Lethality doesn't list the effect, DC, etc. That is something I should probably fix so players can discuss it.

It doesnt list any of that because there isnt any. Its just Vorpal, like actual vorpal. Mob dies if 1k or less, 100 dmg otherwise. I think this needs a slight change, which Ill get to later.

Deadly Shadow on Lamannia provides a +2 to Assasinate DC.

Thank goodness. Some small mediocre amount of variety may be possible now, even if everyone is locked into basically the same build choices for the other 95%.

LATER: As mentioned, two points about that level 18 core. (1) It happens late enough in Heroic that regular Vorpal doesnt stay good very long. It helps you get from 18 to 20, and then very quickly degrades to relative uselessness. (2) With no DC boost below 20, there is still no real way to do anything mutliclass with assassin, if you are trying to use Assassinate from the T5.

Basically, the problem is at that stepping point nothing scales into epic. To address this, here are some things to consider. One is, to make the Vorpal effect scale somehow. Maybe its Vorpal at 18, but that core also has text that when you hit level 20 it upgrades to Improved Vorpal. I dont want to see this change put into the capstone, the idea is to try to make 18 rogue scale for multiclass guys, not to just inflate the capstone more. The idea here is that vorpal helps you go 18-20, then stops being helpful. Unless youre building focused on just hitting 20 and flipping, that decreases the value of the 18 core significantly. Which means if you multiclass rogue, you dont even need to get past 12/13, or maybe even lower. This change (or something similar in this vein, its not like I spent hours mulling this over) would make the rogue levels an incentive on their own, for the core.

The other is to go ahead and put +1-2 DC in the lv18 Core as well. This focuses not on making the rogue levels good in and of themselves, but on allowing someone with 18 rogue to still pursue assassinate dc's into epic. That makes the rogue levels appealing because of the T5 enhancements, rather than their own benefits. But the point would be theyre still appealing.

Without something along the lines of one of those, 18 rogue is just weak. And maybe thats okay, thats up for you to decide. Im just pointing it out and calling it like it is. As it stands, you either go 20 for assassinate DC, or you stop at 12/13 or less. There is no "mostly rogue assassin, little something else" build... because none of the stuff is worth building for. Maybe for mechanic or TA, not trying to comment on those. Only that the Assassin Tree itself has a weak spot right at 18, because it loses too much multiclassing to go "upwards" and doesnt have anything helpful towards going "outwards". I really think having some small DC boost there is good. Not because it helps 18-20 (seriously that isnt even hard anyhow) but because it means that character will actually live a playable existence from 20-30 afterwards. Yes, it potentially buffs heroic slightly if a multiclass 18 rogue takes their multiclass levels all the way at the end. But I would MUCH rather see a slight bump in 18-20 ease for one single build, than a complete lack of usefulness from 20 to cap for a whole range of builds. Everyone will grow out of the narrow heroic range even on that specific setup, balancing those abilities for vertical progression for many more builds seems more relevant.

Thanks, cheers.

[Saekee]

But, giving up assassination is too much sacrifice for dex builds.
Because AC isn't so useful now, & even you decided to invest AC, you may not reach AC threshold that is useful for EE.
Heavy armored defenders can have benefit from AC, because they can wear heavy armor for AC & they also get huge PRR/MRR, AC from gear & enhancement. But, not dex fluffy builds.
On DPS wise, both int & dex builds are very similar.

Fair point! But dex builds, I think, can muticlass better with monk and gain other benefits. A pure INT assassin only gets maxed incorporeality through Shadowdancer and that comes at a cost of double light damage. There is no displacement, save through clickies and the nice effect from post-improved invisi.

A multiclass can give up tier 5 in assassin (and yes, lose those nice perks like knife spec etc) and build itself in other ways.
EE is not the only aspect of the game but your point is good--when I get back to epics and cap I am curious how high I can get my AC and PRR (I know I can get the latter over 100 w/o difficulty which is handy along with avoidance stuff).
And not all mobs can be assassinated which makes non-assassinating melee rogues a fun playstyle (I live stealth for example but solo often due to parental duties).

[nokowi]

We are looking into how much of an issue on shots are for rogues since they have lower hit points. It's a big discussion point in the player's council as well. If we address it we'd more likely add functionality to Improved Defensive Roll to cut back specifically on those big hits rather than adding more passive mitigation.

Sev~

Improved defensive roll is pretty high up the acrobat tree. Acrobats can easily multiclass to get AC, PRR, dodge, blur/displacement, and toughness from defensive roll. Acrobats are actually pretty good tanks right now. I think my guildie said they had over 200 AC, 1200 HP, 25% blur, 170 PRR, and 30% dodge. They could not be one-shot. Compare this with an assassin with effectively 0 AC, 60 PRR, and 800-900 HP.

The core defensive roll feat currently has little to no value to non-acrobats. I would prefer a fix here, as it would help those who need it. A ReflexSave chance to take 1/2 damage on fatal blows would be consistent with PnP and largely solve any one-shot crit or two shot doublestrike problems. (They can still happen but players can have a chance to build around them).

I would like to hear some other opinions on defensive roll.

[nokowi]

But this is basically what it does in heroic. Why shouldn't it do the same in epics?

I would be disappointed if at End Game there were more kills from a level 18 ability than the signature assassinate ability that requires all kinds of build, gear, and play sacrifice. I get almost exactly two attacks per second. Insta kill on 20 might make it more efficient to not use stealth at all (an insta kill every 10 seconds).

I do love mortar fear. At the high end, I would say that mortal fear could proc on 20's. For this to work on all builds (Dex/Str/Int) a save (if any) would need to be viable for all builds. Putting mortal fear here frees up assassin to use more variety of weapons.

At the low end, I would suggest (Char or Rog Lvl d6 additional sneak attack) or (2*Char or Rog Lvl d6 additional sneak) attack. This could also include a save viable for Int/Dex/Str builds, or just proc on a 20.

[Grace_ana]

There's no way I could fit in improved defensive roll on my assassin, personally. Between the assassin tree, wand and scroll for survivability, the harper tree, and the halfling sneak attack dice, I will barely squeeze it all in after the changes. And honestly it's not an ability I find particularly useful anyway in high-level content.

[amsharkwei]

1) Increase sneak speed

3) Decrease cooldown of assassinate to 12 seconds

4) Scale lethality into epics by proccing an assassinate check on vorpal: On vorpal, perform an assassinate using the assassinate DC. On failed save, target is killed instantly.

5) Change deadly shadow: I think the capstone should provide +4 int, +1 assassinate DC, +4d6 sneak attack damage, +10 melee power, +4 reflex save.


these is necessary, and improtant for rogue assassin

[Bobby88888]

Sev, I'd love to know what you think of these and if any of them are still an option.

This is just a quick summary of the changes I would still like to see implemented. Altogether, these changes would increase the power of the assassin to make them more competative with the other revamped classes, but without turning it into an equivalent easy button and without significantly altering their unique playstyle. In fact, many of these changes would facilitate their playstyle and revitalize them to the lethal killers they were when the level cap was 20.

1) Increase sneak speed: As stated previously, giving assassin at least 100% base movement speed does not increase their power in any way, but it does increase their compatibility with groups. Drop faster sneaking altogether, or move it back to acrobat for other rogues to use, then add to each of the first five cores a 10% reduction in the sneak speed penalty, so by the level 18 core an assassin would have no penalty. I can't think of any reason why this shouldn't happen. If taking faster sneaking along with these reductions would be considered too fast (and I think it might), then make them mutually exclusive. Maybe each of the first 3 cores locks you out of 1 rank of faster sneaking, and vice versa, so by the third core, you wouldn't be able to take faster sneaking at all.

2) Measure the foe fade 1 stack every 6 seconds: Under the current proposal, it will simply be tedious to drop into sneak every 10 seconds to keep the buff up. Changing it to fade 1 stack every 6 seconds would still require dropping into sneak every so often to keep it up (more often, in fact, if you want to keep it maxed), but would not require extreme micromanagement to get any benefit from it at all. Less micromanagement means more fun. I think this would also encourage being in sneak mode for more time overall, which certainly fits thematically.

3) Decrease cooldown of assassinate to 12 seconds: This is not too short and will enable the assassin to use its defining ability more often. Decreasing the cooldown will make assassinate more competitive with coup de grace without simply raising the DC. Having a shorter cooldown on assassinate also encourages assassins to be in sneak mode more often.

4) Scale lethality into epics by proccing an assassinate check on vorpal: On vorpal, perform an assassinate using the assassinate DC. On failed save, target is killed instantly. On successful save, target takes 10d6 additional sneak attack damage. The extra damage on a successful save comes to an average of 1.75. On an assassin with an essentially no fail DC, this change would effectively preserve lethality by having it scale appropriately into epics. It would essentially maintain the same effect as it does in heroics. I don't see why this shouldn't be the case.

5) Change deadly shadow: I think the capstone should provide +4 int, +1 assassinate DC, +4d6 sneak attack damage, 10 melee power. This provides a total of +3 DCs on a pure assassin, which is 2 more than we currently get.

6) Increase light armor mastery PRR to 5/10/15: While I appreciate the melee power debuff, I still think a slight increase in more consistent damage mitigation is necessary. An additional 9 PRR is not going to amount to much, but it will help assassins in the area that they most need it.

I completely agree with CThru on 1. 2. 3. and 6. But 4. and 5. I disagree slightly.

4. I think this is too much, letting Execute perform assassinate attempt on Vorpal however sounds interesting. For Lethality I like the idea of SA damage being multiplied on crits and or vorpals but I would take this over nothing any day.

5. I think there should be no bonus assassinate DC in the enhancement tree, instead either put in EDs (SD core 6 or something) or items (say an augment) since then the bonus can be given where some people want it - end game, rather than completely trivialising lower epics. Really we shouldn't get any more DC but increased versatility in assassinate such as reduced CD or being able to assassinate orange nameds on EH/EE or bypass DB etc.

We will watch for Lamannia feedback on this. Keep in mind that the low hanging Acrobat speed boost should affect overall speed including stealth. While we have some room for improvement, I don't think we want stealth to provide a speed boost over unstealthed speed.

Measure the Foe is not meant to be a constant buff which is why it doesn't fade away. We want it to feel like the Assassin is really good in those first 10 seconds of surprise and confusion among foes, and then they are back to normal in the next round. It's our best representation of pen and paper's surprise round.

We have been discussing this as an option. If overall performance of Assassin is too low then this is a buff we can consider. As an aside, we don't want to buff Assassinate for the sole reason that CdG is better, as that ability is probably over-performing.

I don't know why Lethality doesn't list the effect, DC, etc. That is something I should probably fix so players can discuss it.

Deadly Shadow on Lamannia provides a +2 to Assasinate DC.

We want to support Dexterity based Rogues who are Assassins, especially since the tree itself gives Dexterity to hit and damage with daggers/kukri. We wouldn't make the capstone only Intelligence. It's already enough of a disadvantage to lose out on Assassinate DC.

The vision is that Assassin isn't meant to be a passive mitigation tree. Their mitigation will come from debuffs. If you need passive mitigation you will want to splash it.

We are looking into how much of an issue on shots are for rogues since they have lower hit points. It's a big discussion point in the player's council as well. If we address it we'd more likely add functionality to Improved Defensive Roll to cut back specifically on those big hits rather than adding more passive mitigation.

Sev~

Faster Sneaking: Yes it shouldn't be faster than not sneaking but assassins as the masters of stealth should be able to get up to about the same speed as not sneaking, I think 30/60/90% is fine for the Stealthy enhancement but rather than 25/50/75 or to make it so only assassins get the rest put 5% per core from cores 2-6 or something.

Measure the Foe: Ok fair enough, I like the concept of adding like a surprise round style but perhaps for DDO it isn't quite enough.

Assassinate CD: Yes reduce it to 12, not because coup is better but because assassinate is fairly weak now and needs something to put it back up there, DC isn't the way to do that since then it is just trying to top coup, CD or other ideas from above are the way to do it imo.

Deadly Shadow: I disagree with the assassinate DC here for stated reasons above in post. Keeping Dex here however for the Dex builds is great.

Ok so no PRR, on this defensive roll option... I like it, maybe make the base feat when below 50% and the improvement up to 100% HP? or were you thinking of redoing it entirely.

So, is blitz meant to be a constant buff? But, not measure the foe & killer?


Giving assassinate chance to every 20 roll may be over-power. I think Sneak Attack crit on crit is proper for Lethality enhancement.


Yup, squishy, but deadly. I think the best mitigation method for rogues are using their GUTS & WIT
I like to see more aggro management methods(Bluff, Diplo, sometimes Intim) & some roguish CC(SAP, hamstring, slicing blow) here.
It's really too hard to get enough social skill points for harder EE contents like stormhorn. Even with full skill point to social skill, +20 bluff, diplo gear, some extra cha gears doesn't make much difference on harder EE contents. It seems just always fail on that social skill check whether you fully invested for it or not.


Defensive roll & slippery mind are the last bastion for squishy rogues. It should let rogues narrowly escape brushes with death like its description.
Sadly, it's currently not. I think granting some temporary hp & dodge on successful reflex save would be helpful for that emergency situation. Also, granting some additional will save on 2nd roll for slippery mind, too.
Threshold for defensive roll should be raised.

-----------------------------
I like to add something here.

Let assassins use hide skill to keep sneak state like concentration skill for casters.

It's very annoying to lose assassination chance by just 1 single weak arrow. Even missed or dodged arrow can break sneak.

Casters & Divines can cast in heavy rain of arrows,
but even if that arrow deals just 1 damage,
it can be enough to break well skilled master assasin's assasination chance.

Casters & divine can use even no fail casting with quicken.

Good points, more with the social skills sounds fun and interesting!

Slippery mind is ok but unless you drop 33 AP in acro (no int assassin will do this) defensive roll isn't very good at all.

Hide/MS DC to not break stealth. Interesting idea. Perhaps if your missed you remain stealthed and/or the conc style check

Agreed. And that further illustrates my point that the game is stacked against actual stealth play in groups.

In that situation, the stealth character should be able to open the door for the group or disarm a trap or take some other action that makes the path clear for the group. That is the reward for slowing down and waiting for a stealthy character to do their part.

Yeah. It may not make perfect logical sense but anything to give stealth play a leg up and encourage smarter play rather than zerging through.
Given how hard it can be to get the discreet/devious/insidious cunning options, and that no one bothers, maybe they should also receive a large xp bonus, much more than conquest etc. say 15/30/45 (randomly picked numbers make sure they are balanced). Most quests you can't get this anyway thanks to kill x group of mobs to proceed, now kill y group, etc but for the quests you can get it might encourage people to try a refreshing change of pace.

[Dreppo]

I understand what you are saying, but I also agree with feedback that an Intelligence based Assassin has to pay the price to dip into Harper and pay a feat tax to function using Intelligence. If we changed Assassinate to be also Dexterity then it kills the hard choice between Dexterity and Intelligence that exists on in the current revamp.

Sev~

Sev, what hard choice between DEX and INT?

Currently on live it's not a hard choice -- INT is very clearly superior.

Now consider the revamp, just looking at changes that affect DEX or INT (not neutral changes that affect all builds equally). For INT, nothing really changes. However for DEX there are a couple of changes: 1) the assassin capstone now grants 2 DEX; and 2) shadow dodge (acrobat tree) now only grants 3 DEX for 6 AP whereas on live it grants 6 DEX for 3 AP. The net change on DEX builds is that they spend 3 AP more only to end up with a DEX that's 1 lower than they have now on live. So the advantage INT has over DEX will widen with the revamp.

[redoubt]

I would be disappointed if at End Game there were more kills from a level 18 ability than the signature assassinate ability that requires all kinds of build, gear, and play sacrifice. I get almost exactly two attacks per second. Insta kill on 20 might make it more efficient to not use stealth at all (an insta kill every 10 seconds).

What if that level 18 core used the assassinate DC and had a 12-15 second timer and required the attack to be a sneak attack?

People are saying it would be too powerful, but consider that:
1. It is limited to once every 12-15 seconds.
2. You have to have a successful assassinate check (likely without MtF)
3. You cannot have agro when you do it.
4. Splashes won't have the bonus to assassinate and INT from the capstone.
5. Actual assassinates will still be the "lead in" attack and can take advantage of the bonus from MtF.

For comparison on cooldowns:
1. Coup De Grace: 15 seconds
2. FOD: 6-8 seconds (sorc-wiz)
3. Wail (AOE): 50-60 seconds
4. Circle (AOE): 30 seconds
5. Trap the soul: 3.25-5.5 seconds
6. PK: 6-8 seconds

A caster can have all of #2-6 and rotate through them. I'm not sure how getting one initial insta-kill (assassinate) followed quickly by a second (lethality) then getting one every 12-15 seconds is OP when you look at the other options out there? My fire spec sorc kills 6 mobs per energy burst and does it every 30 seconds. A volley of fireballs does the same in a much faster method. Barbarians kill 6 at a time with the capstone and refill their rages at the shrine. Total DPS available today is so high that I find it hard to call ONE insta-kill every 12-15 seconds over powered (and you still need to roll a vorpal, followed by a successful assassinate check.)

[Ayseifn]

What if that level 18 core used the assassinate DC and had a 12-15 second timer and required the attack to be a sneak attack?

People are saying it would be too powerful, but consider that:
1. It is limited to once every 12-15 seconds.
2. You have to have a successful assassinate check (likely without MtF)
3. You cannot have agro when you do it.
4. Splashes won't have the bonus to assassinate and INT from the capstone.
5. Actual assassinates will still be the "lead in" attack and can take advantage of the bonus from MtF.

For comparison on cooldowns:
1. Coup De Grace: 15 seconds
2. FOD: 6-8 seconds (sorc-wiz)
3. Wail (AOE): 50-60 seconds
4. Circle (AOE): 30 seconds
5. Trap the soul: 3.25-5.5 seconds
6. PK: 6-8 seconds

A caster can have all of #2-6 and rotate through them. I'm not sure how getting one initial insta-kill (assassinate) followed quickly by a second (lethality) then getting one every 12-15 seconds is OP when you look at the other options out there? My fire spec sorc kills 6 mobs per energy burst and does it every 30 seconds. A volley of fireballs does the same in a much faster method. Barbarians kill 6 at a time with the capstone and refill their rages at the shrine. Total DPS available today is so high that I find it hard to call ONE insta-kill every 12-15 seconds over powered (and you still need to roll a vorpal, followed by a successful assassinate check.)

There are tons of ways to get SAs while still having aggro. Blind, stunned, frozen, unbalancing strikes trip, bluff, deception, stoned, certain types of paralysing, etc.

[draven1]

What if that level 18 core used the assassinate DC and had a 12-15 second timer and required the attack to be a sneak attack?

I'd rather see some instakill-like ability on "Execute", not on "Lethality".
The former requires player skill, while the latter does not.

Instead, "Lethality" can have SA damage crit on crit hits.

[mezzorco]

I understand what you are saying, but I also agree with feedback that an Intelligence based Assassin has to pay the price to dip into Harper and pay a feat tax to function using Intelligence. If we changed Assassinate to be also Dexterity then it kills the hard choice between Dexterity and Intelligence that exists on in the current revamp.

Sev~

What about DEX not fully contributing to the DC?

Assassinate could benefit from INT mod and 1/3 DEX mod, for example.

This way INT focused rogues have better DC, DEX focused rogues have easily workable builds, and both have to invest in both abilities for max performance.

[kmoustakas]

I understand what you are saying, but I also agree with feedback that an Intelligence based Assassin has to pay the price to dip into Harper and pay a feat tax to function using Intelligence. If we changed Assassinate to be also Dexterity then it kills the hard choice between Dexterity and Intelligence that exists on in the current revamp.

Sev~

I agree.

[Warrax23]

Why not just add a .05% chance in the tier 5 of assassination to simply kill something (Non red+ named)? You are supposed to be a master of killing things, not just from cover/hiding. You know mobs weak spots and even in a one on one battle you'll know where to strike for the most lethal amounts. (Also 15d6 isn't alot of damage I don't know why that number is being used as a beacon) When people are hitting in the 2k+ damage a swing 90 damage max is kind of a joke.

[redoubt]

There are tons of ways to get SAs while still having aggro. Blind, stunned, frozen, unbalancing strikes trip, bluff, deception, stoned, certain types of paralysing, etc.

Assassins can use a weapon to create blind or a deception bluff. They also have enough skills to use bluff. The rest would be places they piggy back on states others create.

But you did leave out the biggest way not to have agro. Let someone else attack first, then move in for the kill.

I'd rather see some instakill-like ability on "Execute", not on "Lethality".
The former requires player skill, while the latter does not.

Instead, "Lethality" can have SA damage crit on crit hits.

I think putting an assassinate check on a T4 enhancement would be over powered.

At the level 18 core you have to be nearly pure rogue to use it and spend 31 points in the tree. At execute you could get it for 4 rogue and 21 points.

[dualscissors]

I think putting an assassinate check on a T4 enhancement would be over powered.

At the level 18 core you have to be nearly pure rogue to use it and spend 31 points in the tree. At execute you could get it for 4 rogue and 21 points.

Yes, level 18 would be a better place for a secondary assassinate because of the level 4 factor.

[nokowi]

What if that level 18 core used the assassinate DC and had a 12-15 second timer and required the attack to be a sneak attack?

People are saying it would be too powerful, but consider that:
1. It is limited to once every 12-15 seconds.
2. You have to have a successful assassinate check (likely without MtF)
3. You cannot have agro when you do it.
4. Splashes won't have the bonus to assassinate and INT from the capstone.
5. Actual assassinates will still be the "lead in" attack and can take advantage of the bonus from MtF.

For comparison on cooldowns:
1. Coup De Grace: 15 seconds
2. FOD: 6-8 seconds (sorc-wiz)
3. Wail (AOE): 50-60 seconds
4. Circle (AOE): 30 seconds
5. Trap the soul: 3.25-5.5 seconds
6. PK: 6-8 seconds

A caster can have all of #2-6 and rotate through them. I'm not sure how getting one initial insta-kill (assassinate) followed quickly by a second (lethality) then getting one every 12-15 seconds is OP when you look at the other options out there? My fire spec sorc kills 6 mobs per energy burst and does it every 30 seconds. A volley of fireballs does the same in a much faster method. Barbarians kill 6 at a time with the capstone and refill their rages at the shrine. Total DPS available today is so high that I find it hard to call ONE insta-kill every 12-15 seconds over powered (and you still need to roll a vorpal, followed by a successful assassinate check.)

1. I personally don't like tying the level 18 ability to assassinate DC. There are Dex and yes even Str rogues still being played. Vorpal originally worked for everyone. It is poor game design to pigeonhole an ability to one stat when there may be future adjustments to str/dex builds. This causes 2 fixes instead of 1.

2. Sorcs and barbs are supposed to be the caster/melee masters of destruction. (not assassins)

3. We used to have classes with roles, which meant it was OK for one class to have less dps than another because we each filled a role. I am sad that this is no longer a part of DDO.

4. I prefer mortal fear (which gives you time to adjust your tactics) to a random insta kill (which doesn't). Part of playing assassin effectively is predicting your environment. For me, this is not as much fun when too much randomness is added.