Rogue - Assassin Changes

[Severlin]

One more question - will there be a cooldown on Weakness poison or are we going to expect that roques will be providing a near permanent 10MP debuff to bosses?

And will multiple assassns poison stack?

No cooldown, but no stacking.

Sev~

[Thar]

Rangers needed help more than rogues. and yes rogues need help but nothing below is going to help them not blow up due to lack of hitpoints or prr

[Thar]

And DPS wise, they are still very behind to Barb, pallis and bards.

And TWF is still full of bugs and all around subpar compared to THF and SWF, which makes any improvement to the Rogues null. The range is horrible, the attack animation is horrible as well etc etc. Let's remember also HOW TWF IS THE ONLY FIGHTING STYLE THAT DOES NOT HAVE A +10 MELEE POWER in his feats. Rogues have to sneak for 5 seconds to get it for 10 seconds

with like 15d6 sneak attack damage they are at the same level of the above. They just can't take a hit like the above or have super dodge like bards.

twf is bugged, whirlwind is broken for twf as melees does like one slow animation hit in a double spin. monks get like 4 hits per 360 rotation. it is a style that is far behind dps and needs melee power or speed boost to attacks. THF is supposed to do the most per hit, sword board should do best defense, twf should do the most dps as your doing more hits. (ie per pen and paper). twf in ddo is far bhind the other styles for a number of reasons, one being light weapon requirements for best to hit.

[Thar]

The specifics of TWF are probably off topic for this thread.

Sev~

it needs to be discussed as it's a problem and rogues are the 2nd most common twf class next to rangers. just like single weapon fighting was a bard thing.

[Spoonwelder]

Rangers needed help more than rogues. and yes rogues need help but nothing below is going to help them not blow up due to lack of hitpoints or prr

Yes on the ranger comment but I call Bull on your points on rogue - there is only a 30 point difference in PRR from light to heavy - I run a TWF pally with 120prr - so the rogue should be able to approach the 60-70 point range (after adjusting for BAB) or a 13-17% difference at that range versus about a 20-25% difference in dodge.

HP there is some truth to that as it's a d4 vs a d10 but you can build a 700hp rogue at end game fairly readily which should be a reasonable figure once you take into consideration the balance of AC/Dodge/PRR (blur, ghostly, displace are common to all).

[FlaviusMaximus]

Really Good Changes:

Changing Assassin's Trick so that it works on all enemies and has no saving throw.

Lowering the AP cost of Damage Boost.

Combining Critical Accuracy and Critical Damage into Critical Mastery.

Raising the health requirement of Execute to below 30% and adding in 200% melee power scaling.

Deadly Poison providing extra DPS and additional reasons to poison enemies.

Suggestions:

Get rid of the 'sneak to gain power' mechanic. I never liked it. Some extra dodge, melee power, and a longer duration isn't going to make doing nothing for 5 out of every 15 seconds any less annoying. Assassins will be a lot more enjoyable to play if that goes away. Simply give Assassins enhancement options for +5 assassinate at tier 5, no strings attached.

Assassin's Trick is looking a lot better, but it will still be horribly flawed if it continues to require this oddly long 3-4 second animation while the character can take no other actions. Make it something that can be done on an attack like Shiv is intended to do with the Bluff addition.

Change the assassin's trick to a passive 25% fort bypass. Add to the 12th level assassin core the ability to sneak attack things not sneak attackable, also passive. This avoids questions of animation speed and will make your balancing act much easier in the future.

This does appear to be an easy work around, but it completely changes the ability. The charm of it now is that it is a 25% fort/sneak attack bypass that the whole party can benefit from. There are enough "me" enhancements in the game. They shouldn't get rid of one of the few "we" enhancements just because it is the easier thing to do.

[Saekee]

Here is the first draft of potential changes to the Assassin tree.


Core Abilities:

Assassin's Trick: This now works on all enemies and no longer has a saving throw. Targets now lose 25% Fortification and their Sneak Attack immunity.

Nimbleness: Nimbleness no longer requires sneak attacks and works on any hit.

Deadly Shadow: You gain +2 Dexterity and +2 Intelligence. You gain +4 Sneak Attack dice. You gain +4 to Reflex saving throws.
Please add bonus to assassinate DC


Tier One

Poison Strikes: (Opponents struck by these attacks are considered to be "poisoned" for 10 seconds.)

Shiv no longer reduces threat when you attack. It instead offers an additional passive component that reduces threat of all your attacks by 5/10/15%. The attack portion now also makes a Bluff check using your Bluff skill.
Is this like the Deepwood sniper exposing strike? This is VERY low hanging fruit, very powerful, will greatly benefit assassins as well as splashes, if not more so


Tier Two

(As a reminder, Venomed Blades now scales with 200% Melee Power.)

Bleed Them Out: The bleed damage scales with 200% Melee Power.

Damage Boost: Cost reduced to 1 AP per level. Changed to boost Melee Power by 10/20/30.


Tier Three

Critical Accuracy is removed.

Critical Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) + 1/2/3 bonus to critical damage and to confirm critical hits


Tier Four

Critical Damage is removed.

Weakness Poison: Your attacks against "poisoned" enemies (from Poisoned Strikes) reduce the Melee Power and Ranged Power of the opponent by 10 for 10 seconds.

Execute: Melee Assassinate attack: +3[W] damage. If target is below 30% health, deal 500 damage. This damage scales with 200% Melee Power. (Cooldown: 15 seconds)


Tier Five

Measure the Foe: Gain +2 Melee Power, +2 Dodge, +2 Maximum Dodge, +1 to hit and +1 to the DCs of your Assassinate ability for every 4/2/1 seconds you remain stealthed. This effect stacks up to 5 times and lasts for 10 seconds after you come out of stealth.

Deadly Poison: Your attacks against "poisoned" enemies (from Poisoned Strikes) do +5 damage.

Light Armor Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) While wearing light armor you gain 2/4/6 to maximum dexterity bonus of your armor. (This also affects maximum dodge.) You also gain 1/2/3 Physical Resistance Rating.

Sev~

I like the poison element--will certain enemies be immune to poison? Will this be coded like monk's Sting of Ninja? Will they work together?

[Saekee]

For all rogues, we had threads going to overhaul them. One suggestion was to reconsider their bonus feats, not just their enhancement trees.
Here is the link to one of those threads

I suggested new class feats for rogues, of the four that they are normally able to select (Improved Evasion, Opportunist, Skill Mastery, etc.). This would give incentives for having more rogue levels. It is this post here. See also the feedback from the master assassins afterward. Here is the list:


Improved Precision: Precision feat now bypasses 40% fort
Insightful blade: int to damage with daggers, kukris and staves (this has been covered by Harper tree now)
Heartseeker: Your equipped weapon gains Heartseeker 1. Can be taken multiple times.
Improved assasinate: adds 4 to assasinate DC. Can be taken multiple times.
Ghost: You gain permanent 10% incorporeality. Stacks with all other sources
Detonater: +6 DC to traps, 10% trap setting speed. Can be taken multiple times
Faker: +4 UMD
Cunning: +2 sneak attack die. Can be taken multiple times
Rune arm juryrig: can use Rune arms, but only for imbues
shadow mirror: 6% doublestrike or doubleshot. Can be taken multple times
etc

[QuantumFX]

Can you guys just turn the attribute adjustments to “Whatever stat you use to hit”? It would be nice to have some build diversity.

In fact, can we just change the formula to (Rogue Level + To Hit stat + Seeker Bonuses (or Sneak Attack to hit Bonuses) + Equipment Bonuses + E.D. Bonuses)?

~ Both Assassinate and Coup-de-Grace are 15 second cooldowns. The wiki (and I believe the in game text for the bard ability) are incorrect.

Since you seem to be secretly hoping that Quivering Palm will go away, I’ll just ask: How you hope to fix the absurd DC difference between Assassinate and Coup-de-grace?

Base numbers (Winner: Swashbuckler)
- Assassin: 10
- Swashbuckler: 11 (Average of a d20 roll)

Level adjustment (Winner: Swashbuckler)
- Assassin: 20 (If they’re a pure rogue)
- Swashbuckler: 23 (23 from heroic levels. It’s also worth pointing out that *ANY* multiclass build can get this DC.)

Ability adjustment: (Tie)
- Assassin: Assassinate has INT modifier built into the calculation.
- Swashbuckler: Coup-de-grace has it built in due to perform being a CHA based skill on a CHA based class.

Equipment bonuses: (Winner: Swashbuckler)
- Assassin: +4 from the MoD or Deathworm items
- Swashbuckler: +20 from +Skill items. (And, if you’re a slacker, you can just pop a +15 skill augment and roll with that.)
+2 from Luck items.
+6 from exceptional skill items.

Enhancements: (Winner: Swashbuckler as it's a tier 1 ability.)
- Assassin: +05 Measure the foe (Tier 5)
- Swashbuckler: +04 Investment into Spellsinger/Charlatan. (Tier 1)

Spell buffs: (Winner: Swashbuckler)
- Assassin: None
- Swashbuckler: Greater Heroism: +4 Morale

Epic abilities: (Winner: Swashbuckler)
- Assassin: +06 Shadowdancer twist
- Swashbuckler: +08 Just for 8 levels thanks to Epic Skill feats! +02 Grandeur (Fatesinger), +01 Skill Mastery (Shadowdancer)

[Severlin]

For all rogues, we had threads going to overhaul them. One suggestion was to reconsider their bonus feats, not just their enhancement trees.
Here is the link to one of those threads

I suggested new class feats for rogues, of the four that they are normally able to select (Improved Evasion, Opportunist, Skill Mastery, etc.). This would give incentives for having more rogue levels. It is this post here. See also the feedback from the master assassins afterward. Here is the list:


Improved Precision: Precision feat now bypasses 40% fort
Insightful blade: int to damage with daggers, kukris and staves (this has been covered by Harper tree now)
Heartseeker: Your equipped weapon gains Heartseeker 1. Can be taken multiple times.
Improved assasinate: adds 4 to assasinate DC. Can be taken multiple times.
Ghost: You gain permanent 10% incorporeality. Stacks with all other sources
Detonater: +6 DC to traps, 10% trap setting speed. Can be taken multiple times
Faker: +4 UMD
Cunning: +2 sneak attack die. Can be taken multiple times
Rune arm juryrig: can use Rune arms, but only for imbues
shadow mirror: 6% doublestrike or doubleshot. Can be taken multple times
etc

Our class passes will not include additional class feats or class abilities for a variety of reasons. They will mostly focus on the enhancement trees.

Sev~

[Severlin]

Can you guys just turn the attribute adjustments to “Whatever stat you use to hit”? It would be nice to have some build diversity.

In fact, can we just change the formula to (Rogue Level + To Hit stat + Seeker Bonuses (or Sneak Attack to hit Bonuses) + Equipment Bonuses + E.D. Bonuses)?

An important part of the DDO multi-class system is attribute synergies so most of the attribute requirements will stay in place. Unless they don't make thematic sense. I can see the argument, as an example, that Sweeping Strikes might use the better of Dexterity or Strength since the tree is Dexterity based.

How you hope to fix the absurd DC difference between Assassinate and Coup-de-grace?

We don't. We don't want the abilities to be the same, or even necessarily equivalent. We'd rather look at the tree and class as a whole. Bards have to land a control effect but they have an advantages with the Coup De Grace DC. They have support spells but don't have stealth or 15d6 of Sneak Attack.

Sev~

[apep1412]

Our class passes will not include additional class feats or class abilities for a variety of reasons. They will mostly focus on the enhancement trees.

Sev~

Does that include making it so that a rogue can take a bonus generic feat instead of one of their class feats, as in pnp?

[Severlin]

Does that include making it so that a rogue can take a bonus generic feat instead of one of their class feats, as in pnp?

We want to avoid making changes to the base class structure. Our changes are focused on our enhancement trees.

Sev~

[nibel]

Assassin's Trick: This now works on all enemies and no longer has a saving throw. Targets now lose 25% Fortification and their Sneak Attack immunity.

Just want to add +1 to the suggestion to make those two effects passive and in different tiers. Sneak Immunity Bypass I think would be great at the Core 18 (Lethality) instead of 12.

Maybe 10% fortification bypass, +5% fortification bypass for each core enhancement beyond this one.

Nimbleness: Nimbleness no longer requires sneak attacks and works on any hit.

So, basically every rogue will have free +10 dodge on long fights. Neat. Will the stacks vanish all at once (like Killer), or will they decay over time (like Master's Blitz)?

Deadly Shadow: You gain +2 Dexterity and +2 Intelligence. You gain +4 Sneak Attack dice. You gain +4 to Reflex saving throws.

I don't think rogues need even more reflex. Rogues have Reflex as a main save (+12 at 20), and Int or Dex as a primary stat (both can be used for reflex). Assassin Capstone was already the best rogue capstone in the game. +2 dex is good to allow us to choose being dex-based or int-based.

If you really want to add a defensive benefit at the capstone, add the benefit of the old capstone back, Cheat Death.

Poison Strikes: (Opponents struck by these attacks are considered to be "poisoned" for 10 seconds.)

Any chance at all to turn those into passive stances instead of activated attacks? Even if they compete with Venomed Blades (the "damage" poison stance), I'm fine with it. You can swap stances as the need arises.

Shiv no longer reduces threat when you attack. It instead offers an additional passive component that reduces threat of all your attacks by 5/10/15%. The attack portion now also makes a Bluff check using your Bluff skill.

Threat reduction on the Assassin Tree is welcome. It is the high DPS tree, and is on a class that don't want agro. IMO, all "high-DPS" trees from every class should had a choice of threat reduction, but I digress...

Will it stack with Subtlety from Thief-Acrobat/Ninja Spy?

(As a reminder, Venomed Blades now scales with 200% Melee Power.)

Is that part already in the game? I need to update the wiki...

Bleed Them Out: The bleed damage scales with 200% Melee Power.

So, that is the problem with low dice damage and scaling with melee power. I don't know the theoretical maximum Melee Power a rogue could achieve, but lets assume it is 100. A full stack of bleed will deal 5d6 damage (average 10.5) every 2 seconds. Scaling with double melee power will make this still only reach ~30 damage per tick. And that is at level 28, when bosses are reaching 6-digit HP numbers, and the endgame raids are half composed of undeads immune to bleed in the first place (Truthful One, Aurgloroasa, Abbot/Erandis).

The damage is just too low to matter in high epics.

On the other hand, on heroics there is very few sources of Melee Power. You get 10 from fighting style (if not going TWF, like most assassins), 10~30 from Damage Boost, and that is it, unless you multiclass. So even with it scaling at 200% MP, you barely have enough to boost it for more than 1-3 damage per tick.

I love the concept of bleed damage, but it is impossible to make it balanced to heroics AND epics at the same time, unless it is some weird math that only scales with epic levels, like Barbarian's Blood Tribute.

Damage Boost: Cost reduced to 1 AP per level. Changed to boost Melee Power by 10/20/30.

Thanks for the AP cost reduction. Can we get a change so that DAMAGE boost raises Melee Power and Ranged Power? (I know Ranged Power don't exists yet, but...)

Critical Accuracy is removed.

Critical Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) + 1/2/3 bonus to critical damage and to confirm critical hits

I hope this merge expands for the other trees with critical accuracy/damage. Since the changes to AC in U14, no one cares about attack bonus anymore.

Weakness Poison: Your attacks against "poisoned" enemies (from Poisoned Strikes) reduce the Melee Power and Ranged Power of the opponent by 10 for 10 seconds.

1) Be careful testing that, because TWF assassins have decent attack speed, and this effect will be removed and reapplied all the time while we are in combat. Please be sure this will not be a new source of lag. Even if you need to put a limiter, like "once every 2 seconds..."

Execute: Melee Assassinate attack: +3[W] damage. If target is below 30% health, deal 500 damage. This damage scales with 200% Melee Power. (Cooldown: 15 seconds)

500 damage against 30% health monstes is a no-save instakill on heroics (even high-level heroics, like cannith and shavarath), and I'm not so sure it will be good enough for high epics. Another problem with how things skyrocket on epics.

Maybe 250 damage, plus +75 per epic level (so 1000 damage at level 30 for a nice round number)?

Measure the Foe: Gain +2 Melee Power, +2 Dodge, +2 Maximum Dodge, +1 to hit and +1 to the DCs of your Assassinate ability for every 4/2/1 seconds you remain stealthed. This effect stacks up to 5 times and lasts for 10 seconds after you come out of stealth.

Loved the buff. But this ability was already a necessity if you wanted to assassinate, and it will only make it more desirable.

I think the main buff Assassinate needs is making it a Tactical ability, so general tactics bonus raises its DC. That, or adding Epic levels on its DC as well.

Deadly Poison: Your attacks against "poisoned" enemies (from Poisoned Strikes) do +5 damage.

Nice.

Light Armor Mastery: (1/1/1 AP) While wearing light armor you gain 2/4/6 to maximum dexterity bonus of your armor. (This also affects maximum dodge.) You also gain 1/2/3 Physical Resistance Rating.

3 PRR is almost nothing. But +6 dodge cap is great. With Lithe and the right light armor, you can reach 34 dodge cap on a pure halfling rogue.

[MadCookieQueen]

Unfortunately...


This is only a distraction from the Mimic festival issues.


Don't follow blindly into temptation..


also please remember if + pages of feedback about Mimic Festival being wrong was ignored...what makes you think we'll get listened to on Rogue?


Stay strong...Join the Angry Mob.

[apep1412]

Assassin's Trick: The only major problem I had with this before the change was the animation, which prevents you from attacking for a decent amount of the debuff's duration - unless you use it while in the middle of another animation. Allowing it to work on all enemies without save reduces the risk of losing 1-3 seconds of damage for nothing. It also makes assassins much more party-friendly against high fortification bosses.

Deadly Shadow: The reflex save seems like it would be more useful/thematic to an acrobat, which may be strength-based, than an assassin. Though, I suppose they already have shadow dodge.

Poison Strikes: I will likely take one of these attacks, for it's requirement for other abilities and the reduced AP costs from other enhancements. Their base effects still do not seem very useful.

Damage Boost: This will scale better for heroic levels, but worse for epic levels. Not much of a difference either way, as Haste Boost is usually the preferred option for a TWF character.

Weakness Poison: I assume this is equivalent to having an enemy deal 90% of their regular damage, except in the case where a mob gains melee power from some source. At this time, I believe the only place they can gain that is champion buffs.

Execute: The reduced AP cost leading up to it gives much more flexibility in the tree. My only concern is how the tree is going to display the prerequisite relation between this (T4), Critical Mastery (T3), and Killer (T4).

Measure the Foe: Is it intended that one can enter stealth once every 10 seconds to have this indefinitely remain at 5 stacks? Putting that into practice in actual combat may be tricky, but so is assassinate.

Light Armor Mastery: Does the sentence in parenthesis mean that this will increase the dodge cap past 25, or just a reminder that increasing Max Dex Bonus reduces its restriction on Max Dodge Bonus?

[Sebastrd]

Rogues have UMD and don't have Rage preventing them from casting if they need a healing source.

Sev~

IME, if you are scroll healing in EE, you're doing it wrong. UMD has lost quite a bit of its luster as the game has progressed. In general, my healing options on a non-caster, non-Bladeforged go Cocoon, Elixir of SOVEREIGN Healing, .................................................. ...................., Bottomless Rum, pray Cocoon comes off cooldown before I get hit again.

[QuantumFX]

We don't. We don't want the abilities to be the same, or even necessarily equivalent. We'd rather look at the tree and class as a whole. Bards have to land a control effect but they have an advantages with the Coup De Grace DC. They have support spells but don't have stealth or 15d6 of Sneak Attack.

You are seriously underplaying a bard’s spells and songs then. They literally have the ability to put anything short of bosses into the state where they can use Coup De Grace on it. (ex. Fascinate, any Dance spell, Holds, the multiclassing madness with Vanguard, Ice abilities from Warchanter.) Meaning, they can Coup De Grace an entire group of mobs while an Assassin gets one shot at an assassinate per encounter. The last class that had that kind of power got that ability trimmed into uselessness.

So, if you’re looking “at the tree and class as a whole”, why is investing into Assassinate so much more involved with less payoff? Or, to put it another way, why did your team make 5 levels of bard so much better than 20 levels of rogue?

[Hulligan]

In a raid you should be dealing out tons of Sneak Attack damage so you are probably fine there.

That 'tons' of SA is 15d6. I wouldn't call it a ton nowadays. Ok, maybe somewhere around decent. The problem is not the amount of damage done in one attack, the problem is the number of attacks made per minute. Sword&board and SWF have gone too far with intense 'combat style bonus' attack speed and tons (really tons!) of double strike, with which this puny 15d6 can't compete. I'm mainting 70%+ constant double strike on my bard, with over 100% with burst dps for bosses and with a SWF fighting style that lands twice as much attack per minute than a TWF. So let us reconsider the statement above.

Rogues have UMD and don't have Rage preventing them from casting if they need a healing source.

Erhmm... you still expect us to heal with heal scrolls? A friendly reminder: turn your calendar to 2015, that is the year we're in.
I guess it's just me and I should really trust in those cure serious pots from house K... (sorry, sarcasm off but this was high ball)

The specifics of TWF are probably off topic for this thread.

Wrong. If you want to improve the rogue you have start with the basics and not just polish the toppings. And basic problem is, there is no real viable option for an assassin other than TWF. Which is currently the least damage dealing combat style. You can't deny the fact that with armor up and melee power and SWF introduced a whole lot of things get unbalanced including rogues and if you're really, honestly looking for a fix (which I hope to be the case, and I hope this is the reason this thread was born) you (as Turbine) should re-think the concept of TWF. Even modifying legacy feats such as Oversized TWF, Two weapon blocking (has anyone used this EVER?) and such.

I'd suggest to take the time and rebalance TWF to match the other lines.
I didn't mention THF. It is actually doing well, with all those extra added glancings here and ther make it like an 'other form of double strike'.
So maybe an updated animation (I assume that'd be a lot of work) or increased attack speed.

Also assassination DC is very very low. It reaches a decent amount at level 20 - can't argue with that. And it stay there. No improvement. While a DC of 50 may sound good at level 20, by level 28 its value becomes zero.

The problem is, that almost nothing improves its DC, whereas every such ability is scaled up as the characters get geared up.

Let's take a warchanter, with 16 bard levels (only) and with a decent 50 CHA, usiung Spinning Ice (tier 5) :
DC: 14 + Charisma modifier + 1/2 Bard Level + Stunning modifiers

That's 14+20+8+[stunning mods*]=42+6+12+5+2=67
[stunning mods: 6 twist, 12 item, 5 combat mastery, 2 ED feat,
not counting some extra : 5 know the angles (harper), 3 fighter PL (an extra 8 just in case it fits in - which I used = 75 DC)

Let's get back to the rogue (pure 20 rogue assasssin) with same 50 INT, using assassinate (tier 5) :

DC 10 + Rogue Level + Int Modifier
[assasinate mods: 6 twist, 2 or 4 item wise]

That's 10+20+20=55+6+[2 or 4] = 58/60 DC (65 with Mythic helm from GoP which is quite hard to farm)

I didn't count Measure the Foe because in general you have NO chance to stalk on your enemies. There's just no time unless you solo gaming, which I never liked since this is an MMO not a single player game. You maybe have a few seconds... sometimes. But this is not something you can count with as a perma boost. Especiall because while you are stealthed you do not DPS.

Summary? 7-17 LOWER DC on assassinate compared to a bard. Ok, this bard won't insta kill. The swashbuckler will. With even higher DC :P . This one instead freezes like up to 10 mobs to helpless for 16 seconds. If you can't kill any trash monster in 16 seconds go and reroll...

Solution a: Know the Angles (from Harper tree) affect Assassinate DC. That would be an extra +10 in above example (still not OP! just a little balancing).

Solution b: Why can't be more effects / items increasing this DC ?

Solution c: Make stunning items (or shatter or trip to give meaning to them) affect assassinate DC also

Another point :
You are giving us DEX to attack and DEX to damage in Assassin tree core abilites. But Why would I go DEX based, if assassinate uses INT ??
Solution a: Make assassinate a multiselector (DEX or INT)

Solution b: Make DEX AND INT to attack and damage for daggers and kukries.

Some more ideas :

* You could grant an increasing % combat style bonus to daggers and kukries (+5-25% from core 2-6)

* Venomed blades at 3 ranks could gain the ability improved paralyze. Or have an upgraded version in the tree and boot the useless toxin affinity (tier 1) and shadow dagger (tier3).

* Rework Execute. With a solid DPS, it's about impossible to time the killing blow. At low heroic levels mobs don't have that much HP to make it worth even using, and at higher levels (20+) you should be dealing like 250-500 dmg per sec. In this case you are lowering your DPS by paying attention when to use a skill and also using it interrupts attack chain - so you'll end up dealing less damage then not pointing any single point in this skill.

suggestion after rework:
(passive): On sneak attack: +5d6 sneak attack damage if the target is below 40% health. Addition +5d6 sneak attack damage if the target is below 20% health.
or
Melee Assassinate attack: +5[W] damage. On sneak attack: If the target is below 33% health save vs Fortitude save (DC 10 + Rogue Level + Int Modifier) or die insantly. On a successful save, target takes 1000 damage (scales with melee power) (Cooldown: 15 seconds)

(works only below 1/3 HP so the mob has to be beaten down to 1/3 first. Must not share cooldown with normal assassinate)

* Knife Specialization (tier 5) is very weak. Let it grant +2/+2. Not much of a deal, almost noone uses daggers and kukries because of their very weak BASE properties.

ps: played assassin as a main for 4 years... now I have no toon with rogue level in it... :/ Hope this brings back some balance.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Solution b: Make DEX AND INT to attack and damage for daggers and kukries.

Some more ideas :

* You could grant an increasing % combat style bonus to daggers and kukries (+5-25% from core 2-6)

* Venomed blades at 3 ranks could gain the ability improved paralyze. Or have an upgraded version in the tree and boot the useless toxin affinity (tier 1) and shadow dagger (tier3).

* Knife Specialization (tier 5) is very weak. Let it grant +2/+2. Not much of a deal, almost noone uses daggers and kukries because of their very weak BASE properties.

I found the quoted text quite intriguing.