Tree build (Avatar of Nature) share

[Retrodark]

AoN tree build (Found on youtube)

This build is fun and practically unstoppable, but I found it a bit laggy and felt like I was mashing keys too much (because they would not always go off when I wanted them too)

Anyway, I thought I would share in case people would like to try it out. I had several people asking me for the info while I was running it.
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This is how I ran it on a 36 pt, Comp/E. Comp.

Stat	Base	Tome	Level	Ship	Gear	Insight	Except.	Profane	Comp.	Store Pot	Yugo	Enh.	Lvl 28	Buffs	Mod
STR	15	6	2	2	11	16	1	2	2	2	2		61	8-13	25
DEX	14	6		2	11	2	1	2	2	2			42	8	16
CON	16	6	5	2	11	2	1	2	2	2	2		51	8-13	22
INT	12	6		2	8	2	1	2	2	2			37	4	13
WIS	8	6		2	11	2	1	2	2	2			36	4	13
CHA	15	6		2	8	2	1	2	2	2		2	42	4	16

At level 28 the saving throws were truly godly at 97/83/88 without much buffing. (Fort goes up even higher while in tree form).

Saves	Base	Epic	Gear	Alch.	Ship	GH	Luck	EPL	Mod	GS	Brace	DG	Enh.	Feat	Ins.	Buff	End
Fort	15	4	12	1	3	4	2	3	22	3	2	16	3	2	4	0	97
Reflex	10	4	12	1	3	4	2	3	13	3	2	16	3	2	4	1	83
Will	13	4	12	1	2	4	2	3	15	3	2	16	3	4	4	0	88

Level Progression:
MCMMMMMPPCCCCPMMMMMM

Feats (you can focus on getting great cleave and TWF first, but I wanted the whirlwind attack fast because of the synergy it has with unarmed combat

Lvl	Type	Feat
1	Standard	Power Attack
1	Human	Cleave
1	Monk	Dodge
3	Standard	Completionist
3	Monk	Two Weapon Fighting
6	Standard	Mobility
7	Monk	Combat Expertise
9	Standard	Spring Attack
12	Standard	Whirlwind Attack
15	Standard	Improved Critical Bludgeoning
18	Standard	Improved Two Weapon Fighting
21	Epic	Overwhelming Critical
24	Epic	Great Cleave
26	Epic Destiny	Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27	Epic	Greater Two Weapon Fighting
28	Epic Destiny	Forced Escape

Epic Destiny
Primal Avatar
lvl 1 - Rej Cocoon x3
- Ephemeral Evolution x3
lvl 2 - Supple as Spring x3
- Seeking Balance x3
lvl 3 - Balanced Attacks x3
lvl 4 - Symmetric Strikes
- Autumn Harvest x3
lvl 5 - None
lvl 6 - Avatar of Nature
- Natures Fury

Twists (Note - I am Epic Completionist with 29 points to spend)
My last setup was this (requires 19 fate points)
1. Sense Weakness (4)
2. Dance of Flowers (1)
3. Primal Scream (1)
4. Brace for Impact (1)

Alternative Twists (original creator of build, I tried consecrate with sacred ground but it was not helping my spirit go up like the cleric aura - great for healing though) - requires 30 fate points
1. Crusade (4) fate 1 2 3 4 (10)
2. Sacred Ground (3) fate 2 3 4 (9)
3. Consecrate (2) fate 3 4 (7)
4. Primal Scream (1) 4

Enhancements
Human - (3) (dmg boost and imp recovery (optionally take next core for +1 charisma if needed to even out)
Sacred Defender (10)- 1^st 2 cores
Lvl 1: 3/3 Defense (+3 saves), 2/3 extra LOH
Lvl 2: 3/3 Defense (+9 PRR)
Ninja Spy (11) - Shadow Veil (3^rd core)
Lvl 1: Acrobatic (3/3), Sneak attack
Lvl 2: Agility (3/3)
Shintao (11) - 2^nd core
Lvl 1: Deft Strikes (3/3)
Lvl 2: Conditioning (3/3)
War Priest (13) - 2^nd core
Lvl 1: Toughness (3/3) - remove 2 of these if you need extra charisma point (2ap) from human or Rad servant
Divine Might (3/3) - at least take 2/3.
Lvl 2: Smite Weakness
Wall of Steel (3/3)
Radiant Servant (32) - 2^nd core
Lvl 1: Extra Turning (3/3); Altruism (3/3)
Lvl 2: Improved Turning (3/3)
Lvl 3: Intense Healing (3/3); Unyielding Sovereignty; Charisma
Lvl 4: Incredible Healing (2/3); Endless Turning (3/3)
Lvl 5: Positive Energy Aura

NOTES:
In order for this build to work effectively, you must take whirlwind attacks and have 5 levels of cleric for positive aura (tier 5 radiant servant). Whirlwind hits 4 times while unarmed only (out of tree form). In tree form any centered weapon will cause the proper number of hits. I don't know if this is WAI or what, but when out of tree form, weapons do not hit 4 or more times.

I found it sometimes difficult to time getting in both cleaves and whirlwinds between cooldowns. They just didn't always want to go off even though cooldown is up. So I was constantly mashing the keyboard. This might be part of the slowness of being in tree form though.

Disclaimer:
I did not create this build and do not wish to take any sort of credit or discredit for it. I just copied it from what I saw on a youtube video, found it interesting and tried it out.

I am not including my gear at this time.

[tpbtoc]

I tried this build to farm some Primal EPL, it's really good and damage is awesome.

[peng]

Nice build. A few comments/questions:

Does twitching for faster attacks in tree form still work? Or do you just use cleaves/whirlwind to maximize the damage of the attacks you do get?

Reading the wiki, it seems that monk strikes have a slow animation in tree form. If that is not the case, would it make sense to drop 2 ap from either conditioning in shintao or agility in ninja spy for fists of iron? +3[d20] and +1 to crit range and multiplier every 3 seconds is nothing to sneeze at.

Since your saves are already so high, you might want to drop the defensive stance saves ap in sacred defender and spend the hem elsewhere, maybe iron skin in shintao for more prr in earth stance.

Why do you split your stat level ups between str and con?

Kinda sucks that you can't fit in stunning fist, improved martial arts, or vorpal strikes.

Your level 6 feat is labelled as a fighter feat.

[tpbtoc]

Nice build. A few comments/questions:

Does twitching for faster attacks in tree form still work? Or do you just use cleaves/whirlwind to maximize the damage of the attacks you do get?

Reading the wiki, it seems that monk strikes have a slow animation in tree form. If that is not the case, would it make sense to drop 2 ap from either conditioning in shintao or agility in ninja spy for fists of iron? +3[d20] and +1 to crit range and multiplier every 3 seconds is nothing to sneeze at.

Mostly cleaves and whirlwind. You could use fists of iron but things usually die fast. I ended up not using it too often.

Since your saves are already so high, you might want to drop the defensive stance saves ap in sacred defender and spend the hem elsewhere, maybe iron skin in shintao for more prr in earth stance.

Why do you split your stat level ups between str and con?

Kinda sucks that you can't fit in stunning fist, improved martial arts, or vorpal strikes.

Your level 6 feat is labelled as a fighter feat.

There is some flexibility on APs so it would be a matter of preference. I leveld up +5 CON.

[maddong]

The videos are pretty gross.

[legendkilleroll]

Dont like this, I know the build is really strong but doesn't seem right to me, I have no interest in playing one tho.

Ive heard of some ridiculous numbers on crits, already saw people copy said build and I guess now more will too :/

[Retrodark]

Nice build. A few comments/questions:

Does twitching for faster attacks in tree form still work? Or do you just use cleaves/whirlwind to maximize the damage of the attacks you do get?

Reading the wiki, it seems that monk strikes have a slow animation in tree form. If that is not the case, would it make sense to drop 2 ap from either conditioning in shintao or agility in ninja spy for fists of iron? +3[d20] and +1 to crit range and multiplier every 3 seconds is nothing to sneeze at.

Since your saves are already so high, you might want to drop the defensive stance saves ap in sacred defender and spend the hem elsewhere, maybe iron skin in shintao for more prr in earth stance.

Why do you split your stat level ups between str and con?

Kinda sucks that you can't fit in stunning fist, improved martial arts, or vorpal strikes.

Your level 6 feat is labelled as a fighter feat.

Thanks for pointing out that typo for the level 6 feat.

The creator (the youtube videos) puts all 7 points into con. His idea is for survive-ability (more hps mostly). I ran like 3 EPLs with this build and I varied in my distribution between STR and CON. Last time I ran it, I did 2 into STR and 5 into CON. You can do whichever you think is best. TBH, you do so much damage that a few extra points from STR, is not going to do very much more for you. There is a fighter variant that I saw mentioned on one of the videos, but I have never seen it in action. Heard it does a lot more damage and assume it is mostly strength based.

As for using fists of iron, I never tried it. I can tell you though that you would probably never use it.

Here is my typical key mashing session. I charge up spirit with aura, keep aura activated, charge into a pile of trash mobs on EE (red alert) or whatever (good place to have fun is in VOL EE), Hit great cleave, continue hitting the normal "slow" attack while in form, next hit whirlwind, mash at cleave until it goes off, usually can't get another great cleave off before whirlwind comes back, so yeah hit whirlwind, if hps go down fast (multiple melee champs can hurt you fast), hit LOH or potion while in tree (can take some mashing before they go off), or jump out of form and rejuvenate, restart aura, rinse and repeat. If using consecration drop it in middle of your big group of mobs (this really helps on healing, but I don't really see it help with spirit regen.). You cannot keep up tree forever so you usually will be fighting as monk from time to time. Unbalanced attacks knocks stuff down, and when viable, TF wraps with paralyzing help some with CC as well. The stuff literally just melts around the tree when at maximum size. Basically the whirlwind, cleave and great cleave don't have any animation, so they just sort of happen. Don't know if that is true for fists of iron too.

As for things like improved martial arts, I don't think 1W will really give you much when you are already at like 75W. In addition, you will kill things outright most of the time and vorpal strikes would be useless. Stunning fist would be cool to maybe slow down 1 of many (sometimes) champs, but I doubt you would have the DC to be very effective.

Only time I remember really dying on EE was when I was lvl 24ish and ran into the big group of deathjump spiders in beyond the rift and 4 of them were champions. I went from 1200 hps to zero in like 2 seconds.

I will say that this build while being very powerful (probably the most powerful I have seen) is not an easy button like today's paladin. It is slightly challenging to be really good at it. So, don't expect to be able to take a first life toon in and clear every EE dungeon unscathed. Another note, you really don't want to run without the anti-quell goggles when engaging them in EPIC Necro4.

[genneko]

Dont like this, I know the build is really strong but doesn't seem right to me, I have no interest in playing one tho.

Ive heard of some ridiculous numbers on crits, already saw people copy said build and I guess now more will too :/

How about monkcher and shiradi spammer?
their crit and additional damage are more ridiculous.
in addition they can always keep safe distance while attacking mobs.
low-risk high-return is not good design.

no one will take AoN without using this build setting.
at present, i suppose that's the only (and maybe right) way to make use of AoN effectively.

[legendkilleroll]

How about monkcher and shiradi spammer?
their crit and additional damage are more ridiculous.
in addition they can always keep safe distance while attacking mobs.
low-risk high-return is not good design.

no one will take AoN without using this build setting.
at present, i suppose that's the only (and maybe right) way to make use of AoN effectively.

yeh i suppose so

guess im just jealous as the builds i play dont get the ridiculous crit numbers :P

[Eth]

Does someone have some actual DPS numbers for tree builds?

I tried a couple tree build concepts on lamma and honestly didn't find them too impressive.
The AoE burst DPS is outstanding, sure, but that's pretty much it.

I think people get to easily impressed by single numbers and are quick to call something OP.
Good analogy with the monkcher. Monkchers still have insane crits, but aren't even close to highest DPS.

I don't think tree builds are best DPS either, except for specific situations where only AoE DPS matters (but comon who runs nothing but Temple of Vol all day ).

[Retrodark]

Does someone have some actual DPS numbers for tree builds?

I tried a couple tree build concepts on lamma and honestly didn't find them too impressive.
The AoE burst DPS is outstanding, sure, but that's pretty much it.

I think people get to easily impressed by single numbers and are quick to call something OP.
Good analogy with the monkcher. Monkchers still have insane crits, but aren't even close to highest DPS.

I don't think tree builds are best DPS either, except for specific situations where only AoE DPS matters (but comon who runs nothing but Temple of Vol all day ).

To be honest, DPS is not something that is easily measured in DDO, except for maybe single target. It is more for games like WoW. So, when I see "DPS" in reference to things in DDO, I sort of cringe a little. I already stated that it is a very powerful build if you play it right, but not an easy button by any means. Who really cares about "DPS" numbers in this game? As for shear power, when in largest form of the Avatar (which can be sustained for a decent amount of time with aura and whirlwind attacks), you can pretty much mow through groups of mobs by hitting whirlwind attack for 1800+ (no crit) x 4 to everything and the crit numbers are like 5-8K. So it is easy to pull the whole dungeon on yourself and just whirlwind/cleave everything in like 2-3 seconds.

The only thing that might have higher "DPS" (single target damage output) are probably the not WAI wolves, but they could not keep up with me when I was on a rampage against the trash. Even on single target, hitting constantly for the high output of damage this build will bring 250k hp bosses down in seconds. Oh yeah and a monkcher's very high output fury shot burst (Adrenaline or Unbridled fury + Arrow of Slaying + manyshot), though not persistent it will definitely take a bosses health down a big chunk when available. Then again there is the skill level of the player too that can be a major variation when figuring out "DPS" numbers.

So my only suggestion is to try the build for yourself or search for the AoN videos on youtube to see how destructive this "Force of Nature" can be.

IMO, based on what I have seen, this is probably how builds rank.

Single target
Wolf (exploit build?)
Monkcher (initial burst which can sometimes put out like 60K in one fury shot)
Tree
Paladin (Single Fighting style)
Swash (Personal experience is that this is very close to the speed of a paladin).
Barb
Monkcher (without fury shot)
Everything else

Multiple targets
Tree (I don't think anything mops up trash as fast as this build)
Wolf
Barb (2hander)
Paladin (2hander)
Swash
Monkcher (when things are nicely lined up for IPS, a fury shot would be pretty good, but after that...eh)

[xTethx]

Does someone have some actual DPS numbers for tree builds?

I tried a couple tree build concepts on lamma and honestly didn't find them too impressive.
The AoE burst DPS is outstanding, sure, but that's pretty much it.

I think people get to easily impressed by single numbers and are quick to call something OP.
Good analogy with the monkcher. Monkchers still have insane crits, but aren't even close to highest DPS.

I don't think tree builds are best DPS either, except for specific situations where only AoE DPS matters (but comon who runs nothing but Temple of Vol all day ).

I've messed with them a lot on Lamma, with most gear/past lives. I did a couple variations of tree builds and still neither are as good in terms of single target dps to a twitching thf or a geared out twf barb. The aoe is very nice and comparable/if not better than a thf or a twfing barb with confront foe, but the single target dps just isn't as high (still very good single target dps, just not the best). I ended up settling on a pure dps tree of 11 barb/5 cleric/4 fighter. Used to have wiz but got tired of switching forms while zerging.

[Eth]

Single target
Wolf (exploit build?)
Monkcher (initial burst which can sometimes put out like 60K in one fury shot)
Tree
Paladin (Single Fighting style)
Swash (Personal experience is that this is very close to the speed of a paladin).
Barb
Monkcher (without fury shot)
Everything else

Multiple targets
Tree (I don't think anything mops up trash as fast as this build)
Wolf
Barb (2hander)
Paladin (2hander)
Swash
Monkcher (when things are nicely lined up for IPS, a fury shot would be pretty good, but after that...eh)

I agree on your general stance on DPS in this game, but some DPS tests can help to determine where a build stands.
Sure for AoE DPS it gets more complicated and ultimately comes down to the player anyway.

For single target your chart is slightly off, barbs are a lot higher, if not the highest single target DPS (not sure what wolf DPS is currently).
Short term burst a dual pick barb in crusader should break 5k DPS (with storms eye+zeal of r.).
Mid term blitzing TWF hammer barb should pull ahead with more sustained DPS (action hero and sustained melee power that boost all the barb stuff make the difference).
Furyshotting monkcher is around 10k DPS during furyshot, but loses dramatically after that.

I'm not arguing against the build you posted by the way, but against those that already claim trees are so OP.
At least trees take a bit of skill to play compared to other melees.

[Eth]

I've messed with them a lot on Lamma, with most gear/past lives. I did a couple variations of tree builds and still neither are as good in terms of single target dps to a twitching thf or a geared out twf barb. The aoe is very nice and comparable/if not better than a thf or a twfing barb with confront foe, but the single target dps just isn't as high (still very good single target dps, just not the best). I ended up settling on a pure dps tree of 11 barb/5 cleric/4 fighter. Used to have wiz but got tired of switching forms while zerging.

Yep, that's pretty much the impression I had.
I also tried a wizard split with ravager blood strength, but really struggled with self healing against harder hitting stuff (the attack rate is just to low single target to really make use of it).

[painkiller3]

Does someone have some actual DPS numbers for tree builds?

I tried a couple tree build concepts on lamma and honestly didn't find them too impressive.
The AoE burst DPS is outstanding, sure, but that's pretty much it.

I think people get to easily impressed by single numbers and are quick to call something OP.
Good analogy with the monkcher. Monkchers still have insane crits, but aren't even close to highest DPS.

I don't think tree builds are best DPS either, except for specific situations where only AoE DPS matters (but comon who runs nothing but Temple of Vol all day ).

you have to pick your spots with this...the +50 prr from the first level makes a huge survivability difference. as the levels (and gear) got better, it was pretty durable through most of the EE i played. hardest part is when your hp start going down, you have to get out of tree form to jump away from trouble it was great v. red nameds as they basically stood still and let you pound on them until your tree counter ran out.

[Retrodark]

I agree on your general stance on DPS in this game, but some DPS tests can help to determine where a build stands.
Sure for AoE DPS it gets more complicated and ultimately comes down to the player anyway.

For single target your chart is slightly off, barbs are a lot higher, if not the highest single target DPS (not sure what wolf DPS is currently).
Short term burst a dual pick barb in crusader should break 5k DPS (with storms eye+zeal of r.).
Mid term blitzing TWF hammer barb should pull ahead with more sustained DPS (action hero and sustained melee power that boost all the barb stuff make the difference).
Furyshotting monkcher is around 10k DPS during furyshot, but loses dramatically after that.

I'm not arguing against the build you posted by the way, but against those that already claim trees are so OP.
At least trees take a bit of skill to play compared to other melees.

I have not tried any new barb builds yet, so that would explain why I don't have them at the top on single target, as I have not seen their power yet. I have had barbs in my parties and since I can't see their numbers, I just know that I am killing stuff faster. I agree that Monkchers are very bursty, but they can bring stuff down quick in that initial burst. I will probably make a barb next, as I need 1 more barb life, but honestly don't think I could sit with a barb at cap for very long due to boredom. Are you talking pure barbs, or some sort of splash? I haven't tried an actual explo-wolf yet either, nor do I plan to, but I have seen them in action and with the exception of this build, it is hard to keep up. I am pretty sure wolves will win single target. They get like crazy DS and attack speeds. I see far more wolf builds than tree builds, in fact when I ran it, I was the first person I had seen running it outside of the videos.

And we are in total agreement that trees take a bit of skill to play (therefore my comments on them not being the easy button). They are fun to play, and definitely powerful, but I personally didn't like the feeling that everything was in lag mode (delayed key responses). I think that they can be OP in the right hands. I mean most people were like wow, when I would kill everything before they could even get a swing in (including wolves). I would say that if you want to try something different and powerful, give it a "whirl". If you want something easy, roll up a paladin or I guess a barb now, or one of the cheater wolves.

[Eth]

I have not tried any new barb builds yet, so that would explain why I don't have them at the top on single target, as I have not seen their power yet. I have had barbs in my parties and since I can't see their numbers, I just know that I am killing stuff faster. I agree that Monkchers are very bursty, but they can bring stuff down quick in that initial burst. I will probably make a barb next, as I need 1 more barb life, but honestly don't think I could sit with a barb at cap for very long due to boredom. Are you talking pure barbs, or some sort of splash? I haven't tried an actual explo-wolf yet either, nor do I plan to, but I have seen them in action and with the exception of this build, it is hard to keep up. I am pretty sure wolves will win single target. They get like crazy DS and attack speeds. I see far more wolf builds than tree builds, in fact when I ran it, I was the first person I had seen running it outside of the videos.

Yea, pure barb. Frenzied berserker capstone is to strong to pass if you want to build a DPS focused barb.

The standard is pretty much:
AP: 41 (or42) FB, 1 Human, rest Ravager (including the Tier 5s)
Feats: PA, Improved Crit., 3xFighting Style, Heavy Armor, Rest whatever

For Divine Crusader go Picks or Falchion; for Legendary Dreadnaught go Warhammers or Maul.


I only ever played a wolf for test reasons on lammania when they intruduced SWF with U22, so that was still with old blitz etc.

If someone that has a top notch druid I'd be really interested to hear some DPS numbers (typical test beating down the 100k HP rednamed in EE Cabal at the start).

[Blackheartox]

Retro, you are late man

I did several tree builds alrdy and before you made it we all had our share of fun with them, i like that people copy that wolf that i kinda created with help of munk and others but to be honest the dps of both builds is very similiar.
Tree has way more dps then barbs single or aoe, issues is knowing how to play one.
You really need those plifes to be a amazin tree build and monk levels, i was playing around with a monk wiz cleric to test if daura procs can sustain spirit better then tree.
Issue is you need to be in undead form when you pop aura to get the healing ticks and then pop consecration to get em in tree form.
It works out, and could be better since you can spend aps in monk tree.
What i thought with this was something in this matter of thinking:
Maxed monk dodge, selfcasting displace, eldritch and earth stance ac /it is quite ok to be honest/ and then proc violence like mad and spam cleaves n such.
You lose a feat or 2 and that makes it not so perfect and the sp drain is horrible since even extended aura feels short.

But back to topic, its a great build, maybe one of best around but the ap sink into cleric is horrible.
Compared to wolf, id say dps is similiar unless the time when you double proc max hits from whirlwind and they crit.
Then its the best dps overall from all builds.
Easily beats barb, and the survival factor is one of best in game imo.
Issue is when they bypass dodge displace n such and hit you with that stinking arrow and cripple you.
Horrible build for mark due to archer, still ok, but its just the worst quest to play it

[FestusHood]

Interesting concept. I've never seriously tried to play in the tree form myself.

A few questions.

You are are fighting as an unarmed monk specifically because it affects the number of hits you get while using whirlwind?

I've seen people mention wizard levels. Can you be an undead tree? Can you have death aura and the cleric healing aura running at the same time, and do they both proc spirit?

I assume the barb versions are substituting supreme cleave for whirlwind? Or do they manage to fit both?

You take two weapon fighting feats. Is this specifically for when you are fighting as a monk and not a tree? Wouldn't two handed weapon feats be better for the tree form, assuming you are almost exclusively spamming cleaves for your attacks? Does whirlwind attack proc glancing blows? Do cleaves when in tree form? Could always use a quarterstaff while you were in monk form.

Any answers from the panel would be appreciated.

[Munkenmo]

Interesting concept. I've never seriously tried to play in the tree form myself.

A few questions.

1.
You are are fighting as an unarmed monk specifically because it affects the number of hits you get while using whirlwind?

2.
I've seen people mention wizard levels. Can you be an undead tree? Can you have death aura and the cleric healing aura running at the same time, and do they both proc spirit?

3.
I assume the barb versions are substituting supreme cleave for whirlwind? Or do they manage to fit both?

4.
You take two weapon fighting feats. Is this specifically for when you are fighting as a monk and not a tree? Wouldn't two handed weapon feats be better for the tree form, assuming you are almost exclusively spamming cleaves for your attacks?

keep in mind that some of these answers you are asking for are questioning peoples opinions as they're not fact based questions:

1 - Yes
2. No, death aura works accumulates spirit for hurting enemies whilst in woad form, but will also accumulate spirit for healing whilst in undead form. Undead and woad form are exclusive.
3. I fit in both. Tantrum is worth mentiioning too.
4. Woad just like all unarmed (wolf, monk, bear) benefits from 2wf, not 2hf. You can have a 2hander equipped but you're still considered 2wf.