SWF is overpowered

[mkmcgw17]

The new single weapon fighting feats are far more powerful than any of the other fighting styles. Coupled with the changes made to the knight of the chalice Paladin tree produce criticals at heroic level of over a thousand damage. No other fighting style even comes close. Two handed fighting just gets a increase in glancing blows as u progress and two weapon fighting only gets a greater chance of a off hand attack. SWF gets a increase of 30% attacl speed and a 50% increase in damage with greater SWF. That's before crits. A paladin wielding a rapier does more damage than any barbarian wielding a great axe. You need to scale back SWF on Orien 50% of all melee are now SWF Paladins. You have once again increased the power of the most powerful class in the game. I'm starting to think your overpowering them on purpose but its ruining the game. Every party is 50% to 100% Paladins or paladin hybrids. Pretty sad.

[depositbox]

The new single weapon fighting feats are far more powerful than any of the other fighting styles. Coupled with the changes made to the knight of the chalice Paladin tree produce criticals at heroic level of over a thousand damage. No other fighting style even comes close. Two handed fighting just gets a increase in glancing blows as u progress

wrong. thf gets more melee power as you progress and i routinely crit for over a thousand on my thf barb or pally in heroics.

[Sehenry03]

wrong. thf gets more melee power as you progress and i routinely crit for over a thousand on my thf barb or pally in heroics.

And you should with a 2h weapon. I agree swf is OP in the hands of a pally or bard. SWF should NEVER compete damage wise with a 2hf or 2wf styles...NEVER. It should be an upgrade to help DPS but right not swf is on par with 2hf and that's wrong.

[depositbox]

And you should with a 2h weapon. I agree swf is OP in the hands of a pally or bard. SWF should NEVER compete damage wise with a 2hf or 2wf styles...NEVER. It should be an upgrade to help DPS but right not swf is on par with 2hf and that's wrong.

It never does. All the video records are THF.

[General_Gronker]

No, it really isn't.

[Monkey-Boy]

No, it really isn't.

My paladin gained 1000 DPS replacing his off-hand weapon with an orb and going SWFing. Please explain to me how this isn't broken.

[depositbox]

My paladin gained 1000 DPS replacing his off-hand weapon with an orb and going SWFing. Please explain to me how this isn't broken.

It shows where twf and swf are compared to thf.

[Saekee]

problem is a spell that adds to crit range and multiplier of any held weapon.

[RTFM]

The new single weapon fighting feats are far more powerful than any of the other fighting styles. Coupled with the changes made to the knight of the chalice Paladin tree produce criticals at heroic level of over a thousand damage. No other fighting style even comes close. Two handed fighting just gets a increase in glancing blows as u progress and two weapon fighting only gets a greater chance of a off hand attack. SWF gets a increase of 30% attacl speed and a 50% increase in damage with greater SWF. That's before crits. A paladin wielding a rapier does more damage than any barbarian wielding a great axe. You need to scale back SWF on Orien 50% of all melee are now SWF Paladins. You have once again increased the power of the most powerful class in the game. I'm starting to think your overpowering them on purpose but its ruining the game. Every party is 50% to 100% Paladins or paladin hybrids. Pretty sad.

SWF works well. Yes I prefer it now to TWF and THF. I am the type of player I will build around what works well, not build what I think "should" work well then complain on the forums that something works better. To the OP: Why not just build a SWF if you believe it is so over powered? Why instead complain it should be LESS than TWF or THF? Lore? Your personal wish to THF? Some particular weapon you like?

Now for a real world perspective, give me the choice of a Great Axe, Maul, a rapier in each hand or a rapier in one hand and I will pick the rapier in one hand (actually a samurai sword would be the best by far but rapier is probably the closest we have in DDO). More controllable, easier to maneuver with, and has a lot more options for swings that do critical damage (pierce, fast slashes, and jabs that you cannot even try with a 20 kilogram maul). So yah, makes sense to me.

So my suggestion to the OP, make your melees SWF and wait until the next cycle when something else is more powerful (the game has been doing this since inception, there will be something that tops SWF sometime, but only after it becomes the mainstay with a great majority of players). Considering that, your best way to make a change is to actually hop on the bandwagon and make all your melees SWF! The more and faster this becomes the mainstay, the quicker the devs will nerf it!

[Annyee]

The new single weapon fighting feats are far more powerful than any of the other fighting styles. Coupled with the changes made to the knight of the chalice Paladin tree produce criticals at heroic level of over a thousand damage. No other fighting style even comes close. Two handed fighting just gets a increase in glancing blows as u progress and two weapon fighting only gets a greater chance of a off hand attack. SWF gets a increase of 30% attacl speed and a 50% increase in damage with greater SWF. That's before crits. A paladin wielding a rapier does more damage than any barbarian wielding a great axe. You need to scale back SWF on Orien 50% of all melee are now SWF Paladins. You have once again increased the power of the most powerful class in the game. I'm starting to think your overpowering them on purpose but its ruining the game. Every party is 50% to 100% Paladins or paladin hybrids. Pretty sad.

Your basically right. SWF is OP. Its better now with only x1.5 ability mod to damage but really it should be x1. That would bring it back into line with the other styles.

[Sebastrd]

If SWF didn't deal damage comparable to THF, nobody would use it. When is the last time you saw a top tier build using TWF?

[Ayseifn]

Haven't seen any monks, assassins or tempests using SWF so while it's probably still a tad too strong it's not crazy good anymore at least.

Got me wondering though if an acrobat is better off with SWF, 30% style bonus is better than the 15% always on they get. Can swap to a staff for quick strike and then back again for the 25% morale or just go deep in assassin for 20% from Killer, or druid for fatal harrier(morale bonus as well?). Only need balance for SWF so better if non str based acrobat, still get the 1.5x stat mod and other goodies I didn't think of.

Henshin Mystic is in a similar situation, take 41 points in NS for short sword crit stuff in cores and 30+ in HM for cauldron and you should be better off. No need to splash rogue so can stay pure, more DPS and better monk tactics because pure monk.

Kind of dumb if the staff based prestiges are better off going with SWF but it kind of looks like that might be the case, at least for certain types anyway.

[Grailhawk]

Combat styles need to be re-balanced with the aim of having each provide a different yet equally powerful play style.

IMO what should be done is.
1) Adjust all attack animations so that they have the same swing speed, and any +x% Alacrity bonues has the exact same effect regardless of style (80 Attacks per minute (1.33 aps) would be the base number I aim for at BaB 20 so 15% Haste bonus would get you to 92 attacks per minute (1.53 aps).

2) Remove the 1.5x STR bonues from THF and SWF, also remove the 0.5x Stat to Offhand attacks.

3) Give Two Handed Fighting a base +20% damage boost (just like TWF has a base 20% off hand proc rate).

4a) Change the Sytle feats to do the following:
TWF: each feat adds +20% off hand proc rate as it does not
THF: each feat adds +20% Damage bonus
SWF: +15% Double Strike +15% Damage Bonus (Total of 32.25% bonus vs THF/TWF 40% bonus at one feat)
ISWF: +26.4% Double Strike +26.4% Damage Bonus (Total of 59.76% bonus vs THF/TWF 60% Bonus at two feat)
GSWF: +34.17% Double Strike + 34.17% Damage bonus (Total of 80.02% Bonues vs THF/TWF 80% Bonus at 3 Feat)

4b) Shield Feats should loose all offensive bonus and only provide defense.

4c) A new combat style can be added to keep glancing blows in the game it should stack with TWF/THF/SWF/S&B but cap at 40% bonus to total damage at 3 feat.

5) Offhand Strikes should produce Double Strikes, and Attacks like Cleave that do not currently proc offhand attacks should now produce offhand attacks. Further any other bias to combat styles should be removed from the game remember the goal is to make the styles feel different but have similar power if there is a bias towards one style or another anywhere in the game that overpowers that one style.

Given these changed TWF would be the high number of attacks low damage style, THF would be the big numbers damage low number off attacks style, SWF would be some where in the middle of the other two. Yet all styles would provide the same ~80% bonus to total damage.

[ToastyFred]

And you should with a 2h weapon. I agree swf is OP in the hands of a pally or bard. SWF should NEVER compete damage wise with a 2hf or 2wf styles...NEVER. It should be an upgrade to help DPS but right not swf is on par with 2hf and that's wrong.

Why?

Give me good, logical reasons why they shouldn't be equal? Include hard numbers in your argument.

"Just because" isn't a good enough reason.

[Sehenry03]

Why?

Give me good, logical reasons why they shouldn't be equal? Include hard numbers in your argument.

"Just because" isn't a good enough reason.

There is no "just because"

Quite simply if I am using a 2h weapon I am taking both my hands and they can't be used for anything else.

Now SWF you can still use an orb in your offhand gaining lots of bonuses or if you are a bard you can equip a buckler gaining other bonuses.

Tell me how THIS is fair. SWF was always suppose to be a single weapon with nothing in the offhand. If you fought this way you got good bonuses and I am all for THAT. Being able to equip an orb/buckler goes above and beyond.

[Sehenry03]

Why?

Give me good, logical reasons why they shouldn't be equal? Include hard numbers in your argument.

"Just because" isn't a good enough reason.

Don't get me going on the bastard sword. It should not get 2hf bonuses while using a shield

Lets take 2 things into account from 2hf and SWF.

2HF gets glancing blows which means when fighting groups they get what...anothrt 40-50% dmg from glancing blows? That's not bad. MF is ok on a 2h weapon.

SWF gets 30% speed bonus. Most builds are dependent on critical hits. Glancing blows do NOT benefit from crits so no bonus there. A SWF gets that attack speed boost so even though he might only be hitting 1 mob he is hitting a LOT harder because he is gaining the attack speed bonus to get more crits...noticeably more crits in the same simeframe of attacks. Now add MF. 2hf is a normal attack speed. no special bonuses. SWF gets a LOT more MF procs because of the 30% attack bonus PLUS the orb/buckler in the offhand he is getting other special benefits from.

I do more dmg on my paladin using SWF with a Deathnip (lvl 14 weapon) and an orb...then I got when I used my eSoS(Lvl 20? weapon) in epic levels. I even asked in the Steel Shrine build about how to get my 2hf DPS more on par with SWF dmg and he quite bluntly said I can't. he has the numbers in his post you can check out

[Seikojin]

Through all my lives I have yet to see swf trounce all other formats of melee combat. It allows light weapon users with no shield or a buckler a viable offense. However it does not strip twf to nothing and it does not strip thf to nothing.

I have seen single click actions resulting in 1000 damage across the board, so swf is no superior to any other form right now.

[Sehenry03]

Through all my lives I have yet to see swf trounce all other formats of melee combat. It allows light weapon users with no shield or a buckler a viable offense. However it does not strip twf to nothing and it does not strip thf to nothing.

I have seen single click actions resulting in 1000 damage across the board, so swf is no superior to any other form right now.

That's the point though...why should a SWF even be the same DPS as 2hf AND be able to have a buckler/orb in offhand?

That's what I don't get. At WORST they get the same DPS (it is higher and again lots of forums posts have shown this) so even saying they are equal is unfair because they get an EXTRA bonus of buckler/orb for other benefits (PRR/Energy Absorption/Augment Slots/whatever). That's what I am saying is unfair.

[ToastyFred]

There is no "just because"

Quite simply if I am using a 2h weapon I am taking both my hands and they can't be used for anything else.

Now SWF you can still use an orb in your offhand gaining lots of bonuses or if you are a bard you can equip a buckler gaining other bonuses.

Tell me how THIS is fair. SWF was always suppose to be a single weapon with nothing in the offhand. If you fought this way you got good bonuses and I am all for THAT. Being able to equip an orb/buckler goes above and beyond.

It's fair because I can do a LOT more damage THF than I can SWF.

[depositbox]

I do more dmg on my paladin using SWF with a Deathnip (lvl 14 weapon) and an orb...then I got when I used my eSoS(Lvl 20? weapon) in epic levels.

funny. all the speed records are thf. gg swf.