The Twilight Blade of the Dragonheirs: Stealth Build rogue/monk/fighter

[Saekee]

Edit: This split is great for a vistani knife fighter—just take appropriate feats. Dragonmarks are optional.


***See this post for an update. This build has much lower DPS than pure rogues due to the last update.


General Philosophy
This build is for one who wishes to be a rogue but not assassinate, fire xbows or swing staves. It is new-player friendly--I have some tomes used below but none are needed to meet the feat requirements. Gear is easily acquired, e.g. Golden Guile and Ring of Stalker if one does not have Seal of House Avithoul, no need to grind out an EMG.

Perks

• Defense: Miss chances from max dodge, 25% Incorporeality from Ninja shadow veil, Dragonmarked extended displacement SLA, Improved Uncanny Dodge
• Monk AC wisdom bonus as well as high Dex for excellent base AC even with the torso exposed!
• Excellent stealth skills including shadow veil, dragonmark invisi and shadow walk, faster sneaking, trap use such as noisemakers
• Elven enhancements will add up to +4 to hit and damage with longswords; Harper +2 more, and +2 vs evil (for a total of +8 hit/damage vs evil)
• Maxed skills in many key areas such as UMD, bluff, spot, search, disable, etc.
• 11d6 sneak attack dice + gear, including Improved Deception on any weapon
• Improved Evasion
• Armor piercing 35% (Opportunist and Precision)
• Doublestrike 16% from Greater Wind Stance, Opportunist, Elf Enhancement
• Full trapping skills
• Offhand 90% from Deft strikes
• Haste Boost from Kensei tree
• 15 melee power (also boosting sneak attack damage)
• Fist of Iron for +3[W] damage, +1 critical threat range, and +1 Critical Damage Multiplier (3 sec. cooldown) and earth finisher
• +10% movement speed

I have gone DEX here for the easy synergy for stealth, TWF & Improved Sneak attack feat requirements, Windstance (+4), occasionally scrolling Tensers (+4) and elven bonuses (+2) but one can also go INT and take better advantage of KtA. (The planner does not seem to have the Harper Tree; perhaps I missed an update of it?)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Twi. Blade Dragonheirs
Level 28 Lawful Neutral Elf Female
(1 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 368
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 24
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 28)           (Level 28)
Strength              8                 11                   11
Dexterity            20                 30                   32
Constitution         13                 18                   18
Intelligence         15                 18                   18
Wisdom               12                 15                   15
Charisma              8                 11                   11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 28)          (Level 28)
Balance               6                 17                   26
Bluff                 3                 23                   31
Concentration         1                 14                   22
Diplomacy             1                 23                   31
Disable Device        6                 27                   35
Haggle               -1                  0                    8
Heal                  1                  2                   10
Hide                  9                 34                   45
Intimidate           -1                  0                    8
Jump                  3                 18                   27
Listen                2                  3                   13
Move Silently         9                 34                   42
Open Lock             9                 15                   23
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                  4                   12
Search                6                 27                   37
Spellcraft            2                  4                   12
Spot                  5                 25                   35
Swim                 -1                  1                    9
Tumble                n/a               12                   21
Use Magic Device      3                 23                   31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons (or Piercing; See thread for options)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Watchful Eye or what-you-will


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3)

This leaves 35 AP for Harper Tree although I can play with it a bit more, adding melee power, +4 Dex, +2 Hit & Damage vs evil, various bonuses and +2 to the enchantment of weapons.
I wish I could fit in Sting and Venomed blades but could not.

Variants:

1. If one does not have the Harper Tree, a very good splash giving extra sneak attack damage, shadow dodge, sting and venomed blades etc. could be done as well and one would really only miss out on the extended displacements.
2. One could use short swords/shurikens instead of longswords and substitute WSS with Quickdraw, WF: Slashing with shuriken expertise, swap Dodge and Precision and replace the level 6 Monk feat (which would be dodge) with 10K. -->I do not recommend this. Just accept your ranged damage does not exist. If, however, one already has both Celestia and Rebellion, this would be very feasible.

[TeacherSyn]

A highly defensive damage-dealer that's pretty self-reliant. Nice job.

I don't think you'll miss Sting of the Ninja given the bug. But, one should always have a ranged option, even if weak. You didn't say you weren't carrying one, just implying that its damage wouldn't compare at all to the melee.

A touch of ninja with the Rogue skills? You might have a build that actually works. I've failed in getting a past Rogue ninja working. Might have to consider this one.

[Saekee]

A highly defensive damage-dealer that's pretty self-reliant. Nice job.

I don't think you'll miss Sting of the Ninja given the bug. But, one should always have a ranged option, even if weak. You didn't say you weren't carrying one, just implying that its damage wouldn't compare at all to the melee.

A touch of ninja with the Rogue skills? You might have a build that actually works. I've failed in getting a past Rogue ninja working. Might have to consider this one.

Thx Spencerian! I have been playing a 6 monk/7 wiz/7 rogue build that uses spellcasting for displacement, invisibility etc. but I realized that with the elf tree I could dump wizard altogether and get more sneak damage and skills and, with the fighter level, better qualifying BAB for feats as well as an extra one. Also, my last split (am finishing it up right now on its last epic run) lacked improved evasion.

I went WSS but I could do shuriken expertise, quickdraw and 10K (and dump dodge though) and focus on short swords. I feel, though, that I just don't need the ranged stuff--maybe twist boulder toss or GMOF ki ranged attacks for those rare moments when it is really needed (I have tried hybrid melee/ranged builds and found myself always doing one or the other). Fury is my favorite destiny for stealth since isolated enemies can be auto-knocked down and exterminated with an adrenaline shot and it comes with sense weakness and boulder.

[Saekee]

Trying to tease out whether it would be better or not to do Max INT or Max DEX, the former being especially good for KtA:

Here are one set of possible enhancements:
11 AP Ninja
Basic Ninja Training
Advanced Ninja Traning
Shadow Veil
Sneak Attack Training
Sneak Attack Training
Acrobatic
Agility I
14 AP Thief
Staff Control
Charming I
Shadow Dodge
Faster Sneaking
Haste Boost
07 AP Shintao
Bastion of Purity
Deft Strikes
36 AP Harper
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment
Highly Skilled
Harper Training I / Ability Score.
Enchant your weapon
Agent of Good II
Traveler's Toughness
Versatile Adept I
Versatile Adept II
Versatile Adept III
Versatile Adept IV II
Harper Training II / Ability Score.
Know the Angles
Magic of Patience
Stat Bonus
Stat Bonus
12 AP Elf
Elven Accuracy
Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
Elven Weapon Training
Elven Weapon Training

This gives +4 to Dex, completely in the Harper Tree. It is possible to add more.
Dex starting stat is 20:
20 + 6 tome, 7 levels, 11 item, 4 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship, 2 yugo, 4 harper, 4 Greater windstance + 6 shadow dodge=69
Certain epic destinies: up to +6 =75
Scrolling Tenser's for short bursts= 79
Completionist: +2=81
any that I am missing?


I do not have a +6 tome, nor completionist, nor the eLitany, but many builds assume the max anyway.

Assuming an achievable Dex of 70, that is equal to a +30 modifier
Int builds might be as follows:
18 base, 6 tome, 7 levels, 11 item, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 profane, 2 ship, 4 yugo, 2 harper: 56 for a 23 modifier. With KtA, one could then add 11 to that, so this gives a 34 damage modifier. (An 80 Dex would be a 35 modifier). The 34 Damage modifier is very close to the Dex version above which would not require 1) an Insightful reflexes feat, 2) the use of SP to keep KtA going and 3) the additional bonus of 30 added to armor class. The downside is that KtA boosts tactics; however, this build does not have tactical strikes. Though it is not really an issue, the Dex version also gets its full bonus To Hit whereas KtA only affects damage (again, this is not really an issue).

At 70+ Dex, the build does have shuriken use as a monk as well as the tier 3 of monk. It is a weak ranged option, but exists nevertheless and can be boosted should one not want the WSS route.

[Caprice]

Another option is to go DEX based and pick up KtA anyway. INT 15 base + 6 tome + 11 item + 3 insight + 1 exceptional + 2 ship = 38 INT, which is +7 damage/hit with KtA. With a more reasonable set of buffs (+3 tome, no eLitany) you're still talking around +6 damage bonus at cap. It isn't amazing extra damage but it should be noticeable. Adding those to the base +35 for DEX pushes you that much farther past INT-based for damage. INT gives oodles of skillpoints and sky-high Search/DD; DEX gets somewhat more damage, better defenses (both Reflex saves and AC), and sky-high stealthing (and OL).

I started a somewhat similar staff build pre-Harper. I like your take on it better overall, although I still wince at the 2-feat cost for using Longswords as centered weapons for a modest DPS increase.

[Saekee]

Another option is to go DEX based and pick up KtA anyway. INT 15 base + 6 tome + 11 item + 3 insight + 1 exceptional + 2 ship = 38 INT, which is +7 damage/hit with KtA. With a more reasonable set of buffs (+3 tome, no eLitany) you're still talking around +6 damage bonus at cap. It isn't amazing extra damage but it should be noticeable. Adding those to the base +35 for DEX pushes you that much farther past INT-based for damage. INT gives oodles of skillpoints and sky-high Search/DD; DEX gets somewhat more damage, better defenses (both Reflex saves and AC), and sky-high stealthing (and OL).

I started a somewhat similar staff build pre-Harper. I like your take on it better overall, although I still wince at the 2-feat cost for using Longswords as centered weapons for a modest DPS increase.

hi Caprice, thanks for your thoughts. Actually, in my planner above, I calculated to take KtA. When doing the damage calculations after between dex and int, I forgot to factor in KtA from a decreased stat.
For skills, many are maxed out anyway in the planner; I would rather have the superb stealth skills, especially since this is a stealth build!

I think if someone has Rebellion, then there is no need to do WSS; one could use short swords like Rebellion paired with Celestia and then take some feats to build an adequate ranged attack.

[Caprice]

It's a minor tweak but I'd suggest swapping the order for Precision and WSS. You will almost certainly be better off with handwraps at earlier levels and I think Precision gives a better DPS improvement than WF:Slashing & WSS will (esp. with all the undead at early levels).

I think the main skill that might be nice to add in is Heal for the stronger Cocoons, and it would be good to max out Concentration (for ki retention and scrolls). More Open Locks is always nice to have too, especially since OL will be lower on an INT build than a DEX one. Intimidate would have some use too with the strong defenses versus trash. None are key skills but an INT-based character could fit in a bit more in. INT-based could also twist in Energy Burst to add a powerful AoE attack, in which case adding Spellcraft has merit too.

I'd stick with the DEX build you have but I like to point out some of the other options.

[Saekee]

It's a minor tweak but I'd suggest swapping the order for Precision and WSS. You will almost certainly be better off with handwraps at earlier levels and I think Precision gives a better DPS improvement than WF:Slashing & WSS will (esp. with all the undead at early levels).

I think the main skill that might be nice to add in is Heal for the stronger Cocoons, and it would be good to max out Concentration (for ki retention and scrolls). More Open Locks is always nice to have too, especially since OL will be lower on an INT build than a DEX one. Intimidate would have some use too with the strong defenses versus trash. None are key skills but an INT-based character could fit in a bit more in. INT-based could also twist in Energy Burst to add a powerful AoE attack, in which case adding Spellcraft has merit too.

I'd stick with the DEX build you have but I like to point out some of the other options.

hi Caprice, thanks for your thoughts. That is a very good idea, swapping WSS for precision. Yeah, pretty much would be using wraps in the lower levels with Delera's etc. I have the Tiefling blade for level 4, and plan to make a Nightforge avenger blade as well for level 8, but usually end up using wraps even with a low STR score.

For cocoon and skills: I am thinking of not doing cocoon but instead just scroll healing. If I craft a GS shortsword with hamp 10 & 20, and pair it with the Heal scrolls, I should be in pretty good shape. This way I do not need to deal with mana and could use the twist slot for something else. I do not have wand a scroll mastery, though. AP starved.

For the INT build, I would definitely do as you suggest--pump up concentration and other missing skills, and also take improved traps from mechanic tree. Along with Energy burst it would have some CC. However, if I were truly to go that route, I would probably aim for a split with 6 wizard levels--maybe 9 monk/6 wiz/5 rogue or even 12/5/3 (Jakeleela's Meteor shower split), go all out on INT, and in which case I would also do Drow and focus on short swords. That would also work well in 'off' destinies like the caster ones and take nice advantage of other goodies in the harper tree for spell casters.

WSS is costly and I will explore the ranged version with short swords and some shuriken after a future epic reincarnation. I figure its real strength is with the Oathblades. Funny, they actually have the general effect of the ninja capstone with non-named shortswords (15-20/2 and vorpal) so it is like duplicating that effect. I also like the improved damage they offer. Gimpy stealth toons need all the help they can get...Finally, improved crit: slashing opens up the solid use of the all-DR breaking Forrester's brush hooks, really convenient, as well as an Epic Midnight Greetings should I use the other Tier 5 harper option (+3 and righteousness).

[Caprice]

When I originally wrote my answer I considered suggesting dropping IC:Slash in favor of IC:Piercing because Oathblade is already Keen and I think spending raid mats on TF Long Swords is not a good long term investment. Not many builds make good use of Long Swords. Short Swords are much more applicable over lives (e.g. Ninja Spies, Drow centered FvS, Swashbuckler Bards). But your mention of the Forester's Brush Hook in the original post convinced me that it wasn't worth mentioning, since you are getting multiple uses from it. I was also going to suggest farming up a couple TABs for low levels but I hate to recommend that much farming (or maybe your luck is just much better).

My only counter argument for sticking with early WSS is the ML:2 Blade of Inquisition from the Catacombs: Ghost Touch Silver of Lesser Undead Bane. I can't think of any good low-level handwrap or short sword options for dealing with wraiths/spectres (and vampires, although those are less common). If you can get a suitable Ghostbane off the AH or craft something to tide you by it won't matter.

I set up my older Shoikan build (WSS centered TWF FvS hybrid w/ Long Swords) with a couple ML:8 Retribution Long Swords, and I think those are worth considering for leveling a WSS Monk. Note the Lawful alignment requirement; despite having Pure Good there is no Good alignment requirement on them. I hate the Threnal content but the chain rewards are nice for twinking. The Nightforged blades are much easier to get and have both higher base damage and the wider critical range, but there aren't that many critical-based abilities here. Retribution offers a flat +1d6 to +4d6 (non-crittable) depending on enemy alignment, and there are enough Evil enemies that it's worth +3d6 most of the time. The Retribution is also BtA so I don't mind slotting it so much. I've been trying to find a couple ML:14 Dragon Sword of Acids for a long time now - the same enhanced crit range as Nightforged but they come with a Burst effect, slightly enhanced base damage, and I like how they look, but so far I've had no luck.

[Saekee]

When I originally wrote my answer I considered suggesting dropping IC:Slash in favor of IC:Piercing because Oathblade is already Keen and I think spending raid mats on TF Long Swords is not a good long term investment. Not many builds make good use of Long Swords. Short Swords are much more applicable over lives (e.g. Ninja Spies, Drow centered FvS, Swashbuckler Bards). But your mention of the Forester's Brush Hook in the original post convinced me that it wasn't worth mentioning, since you are getting multiple uses from it. I was also going to suggest farming up a couple TABs for low levels but I hate to recommend that much farming (or maybe your luck is just much better).

My only counter argument for sticking with early WSS is the ML:2 Blade of Inquisition from the Catacombs: Ghost Touch Silver of Lesser Undead Bane. I can't think of any good low-level handwrap or short sword options for dealing with wraiths/spectres (and vampires, although those are less common). If you can get a suitable Ghostbane off the AH or craft something to tide you by it won't matter.

I set up my older Shoikan build (WSS centered TWF FvS hybrid w/ Long Swords) with a couple ML:8 Retribution Long Swords, and I think those are worth considering for leveling a WSS Monk. Note the Lawful alignment requirement; despite having Pure Good there is no Good alignment requirement on them. I hate the Threnal content but the chain rewards are nice for twinking. The Nightforged blades are much easier to get and have both higher base damage and the wider critical range, but there aren't that many critical-based abilities here. Retribution offers a flat +1d6 to +4d6 (non-crittable) depending on enemy alignment, and there are enough Evil enemies that it's worth +3d6 most of the time. The Retribution is also BtA so I don't mind slotting it so much. I've been trying to find a couple ML:14 Dragon Sword of Acids for a long time now - the same enhanced crit range as Nightforged but they come with a Burst effect, slightly enhanced base damage, and I like how they look, but so far I've had no luck.

Thanks Caprice--excellent advice. Would love those blades; retribution is excellent--I have been checking the AH on the dragon sword but it has not been there.

I figure at level 12 to equip a lootgen one in the mainhand that I have-- I think it is acid/bloodletter with Risia frost, then at later I can swap in as needed heroic hooks and always Razorend in offhand. But I am not worried about heroic content since shadow veil, high dodge, evasion, perma blur from gear etc makes it really easy until at least the later stuff.

I probably will not make TF longswords for the reasons you state. This is not an 'endgame' build but really meant to stealth whatever EE quest permits it and I can always zerg lower difficulties.

[Caprice]

You might run into unlucky trouble for the odd True Seeing Champion or boss, but the defenses should still be strong. How many Martial EPLs do you have? I'm wondering if you'll break 1st life plate armor AC on it with the high DEX.

I haven't said it yet, but your idea for the INT-based w/Arcane levels is interesting. Something else to explore someday!

[Saekee]

You might run into unlucky trouble for the odd True Seeing Champion or boss, but the defenses should still be strong. How many Martial EPLs do you have? I'm wondering if you'll break 1st life plate armor AC on it with the high DEX.

I haven't said it yet, but your idea for the INT-based w/Arcane levels is interesting. Something else to explore someday!

once I finish this current run (am around level 26) I will have 3 Martial and 2 Primal. I also have many other destinies well-developed in the other spheres.
Monks get nice AC bonuses also with Wisdom, so it is amazing how high the AC can go without any real effort. If really needed I can always drop into Earth stance.

My current build is a vamp monk using a 6 monk/7 wiz/7 rogue split. I tend to run in earth and LD; if I switch into Combat Expertise I have over 100 PRR. Feels pretty solid although the vampire part is something of a weak spot in that I can't burst heal. Its defenses are awesome in many quests, especially against drow and green dragon poisons, beholders, all those level-drain casters etc. I am just having difficulty boosting the nullification and void side since I am using wraps (only implement I have is when I swap the ePharlian for the Cloak of Dragon). Probably should have used staff--just wanted to play out the synergy with Grave Wrappings level drain along with Vampire form. EH is easy anyway and I used to hate getting level drained when running through Von4 or other typical epic grinders. This split would have worked very well as an INT split since it gets two level 4 spells. Fire shield and DDoor, for example, are super useful; I was able to blitz EE Storm the Beaches on my own the last epic incarnation with it by using the fire shield with the Orc privateer boots. Took the hits no problem from the ballistas and mopped up!

I am glad you like the arcane split. The 9/6/5 is really solid; you can even go tier 5 in Ek for perma tensors and a very strong set of defenses. I was thinking of going Harper on my current build but I really would like to TR after I hit 28. Anxious to return to Korthos :P

Thanks again for all your helpful thoughts! I appreciate the feedback.

[Theoutlaw_JoseWalles]

Ive been running this build as specked and can honestly say I like it. So far tho the long sword angle has been a little weak so Ive been using twin TAB's with meteors slotted in em and have been mopping up with them . Against undead ive been using the house C long sword with the sun sword and devout hand wraps. The invis clickie with displacement rocks. Mainly the game plan is to invis thru and any mobs that pick up your sent you clean up on the quest objective/door by using haste pot and displacement clickie and get to work. Cure serous pot up then continue on to next objective. In parties this build rocks. I cant wait till I can scroll cast heal tho as self healing is a bit slow and I don't use hires . Im at lvl 10 now and should be around 18-20 by the end of the weekend . Thanks for the thoughtful build and cant wait to hit epics. Also I soloed The Pit with this build in under 26 min with no hire at lvl .................. What do you think about a 10 rogue 6 ranger 4 monk split ? at first glance all you would lose is a couple ac points and 35% armor piercing ( assuming u sub precision for master of forms ) but you would gain many shot, jump and rams might spells. Just a thought and not very well thought out yet... maybie a future project

[Saekee]

Ive been running this build as specked and can honestly say I like it. So far tho the long sword angle has been a little weak so Ive been using twin TAB's with meteors slotted in em and have been mopping up with them . Against undead ive been using the house C long sword with the sun sword and devout hand wraps. The invis clickie with displacement rocks. Mainly the game plan is to invis thru and any mobs that pick up your sent you clean up on the quest objective/door by using haste pot and displacement clickie and get to work. Cure serous pot up then continue on to next objective. In parties this build rocks. I cant wait till I can scroll cast heal tho as self healing is a bit slow and I don't use hires . Im at lvl 10 now and should be around 18-20 by the end of the weekend . Thanks for the thoughtful build and cant wait to hit epics. Also I soloed The Pit with this build in under 26 min with no hire at lvl .................. What do you think about a 10 rogue 6 ranger 4 monk split ? at first glance all you would lose is a couple ac points and 35% armor piercing ( assuming u sub precision for master of forms ) but you would gain many shot, jump and rams might spells. Just a thought and not very well thought out yet... maybie a future project

Hi Outlaw--thx for playtesting it and your thoughts! The TAB is very powerful and with the two rubies you slotted--you could easily use those all the way through heroics. There are changes on the horizon for rogue enhancements--haste boost will get cheaper and Shiv will bluff also while hitting for more damage. So I think a good enhancement selection will be taking both haste boosts from kensei and acrobat.

There are not many interesting longswords in heroics. A very nice level 10 blade is Zephyr. It has a VERY high base damage; if you are mowing down trash with the TABs then use Zephyr on bosses. The Nightforge longswords with adamantine can work on golems etc.

I have been thinking that the way to go is IC: piercing. Zephyr, the Vampiric Fury Short Swords and Sun blade are very solid for heroics and my only interest for long swords is the Oathblade. One could pair Oathblade with a Star of Day with Radiance, or Celestia if one has it; the Stars of Day and Celestia work well on indead and have the d10 base die damage as well.

Do you have harper? The improved deception on weapons combined with something like Golden Guile and the haste boosts will keep even bosses turned away continuously.

I have yet to TR into this as I am farming out eOrchard with my current build and farming mimics is easier in epics. So you are ahead of me. I am wondering also how the fists of light healing is helping; it will easily give 2-4 hp/hit in epics with basic healing amp.

Your split would add ranged abilities but at the cost of shadow veil, which is a big loss in defense. In the end, the best monk/ranger split is the monkcher, though.

[Theoutlaw_JoseWalles]

Ok I leveled to 17 Sunday night and thought to myself I should give an update to the Twilight blade playtest. So far the build has been an easy leveler soloing most quests without much problems. My main weapon sets have been twin TAB's and devotion hand wraps (both are worth the effort to get IMO).For the sake of full disclosure I have pretty good leveling gear and will list the gear Im wearing at the end of the report. Shadow Veil is the linchpin of this build at early levels and further more cant be debuffed. In the PUG's Ive joined Ive been surprised at being one of the strongest in the party as well as the most competent rogue without much effort on my part. Self healing is a bit slow at early levels until level 13ish (depending on gear) when casting heal scrolls becomes reliable. Not having a reliable ranged attack is a glaring weakness that can be aggravating at times, for example at the end fight of GOP this build is useless. If the Doomsphere's con damage eye stalks hits you twice your helpless waiting on a disintergrate or polar ray to finish you off. Fists of light is mildly useful usually keeping you topped off but that's it. I like theme builds so Im sticking to the long sword theme until I find out if the Oath blade is worth the WSS feat slot. ATM im using Holy sword and sun blade with Adamantine knuckles and at level 16 I switched to twin Envonomed blades. If the Oath blade doesn't stand up to muster Ill probably switch out WSS for 10k stars or mobility. Debuffing mobs or champion red names can be hassle to deal with since having displacement isn't much help. As far as skills are concerned Ive maxed out balance , bluff , DD , search , spot , UMD , and concentrate. Ive put any remainder points into tumble and enough into jump to ensure 40 at level 20. This build requires very little buffing (which I love) the normal routine is gh(scroll) dw(pot) displacement and SV and Im off to the races . The Twilight blade plays out like a monk with rogue levels, very durable and hard to kill. here are a couple of pics showing the stats at level 17




gear at 17 is as follows :
gs cloak of smoke II (ref +5 perma blur and displacement clickie level 11)
spare hand ( DD & OL 15 staggering blow lvl 15) I also have the level 3/7/11 versions
ring of the stalker ( seeker 4 improve SA 3 ghost touch and man slayer level 15) I also have the level 11 version
skirmishers gloves ( strength 8 level 15)
con ring 6 (level 9)
skirmishers bracers ( dex 8)
white dragon scale robe (level 14)
gs goggles of co/op (wis 6 haggle/dip 10 char skills 6 con skills 4 int skills 2 wiz VI level 11)
totemic lavalier ( char 6 int 6 magi level 11)
skirmishers locket ( 8% dodge level 15)
treasure hunter's spyglass ( search spot 15 umd 1 trusight level 16) I also have the level 4/8/12 versions

special notes :
because of my gs cloak I run in wind stance 100% of the time ( I love the 12.5 attack speed and double strike)
when I get into trouble I do a bluff then hit invis clickie (as long as I don't move I usually can regain my health and allow harmfull effects to wear off etc (I don't know If its a bug or if that's the way its intended to work but Im not going to ***** lol)
I plan spending the 13 remaining points in the rogue trees
All in all I think this is one of the best rogue builds out there, maybie with a little tweaking this could be the bar none standard who knows. Ill comment again on the Twilight Blade again once I get to 23/24 and see if this long sword theme works

Yours Truly
Outlaw

[Theoutlaw_JoseWalles]

I forgot to mention that I did take IC: piercing as I also believe that since the Oath blade has keen that doubling the crit range of your short swords is the way to go

[voxson5]

Watchers Blade is a good little longsword. Mmm crits like a khopesh
File:Item_Description_Watchers_Blade.png

[Saekee]

Ok I leveled to 17 Sunday night and thought to myself I should give an update to the Twilight blade playtest. So far the build has been an easy leveler soloing most quests without much problems. My main weapon sets have been twin TAB's and devotion hand wraps (both are worth the effort to get IMO).For the sake of full disclosure I have pretty good leveling gear and will list the gear Im wearing at the end of the report. Shadow Veil is the linchpin of this build at early levels and further more cant be debuffed. In the PUG's Ive joined Ive been surprised at being one of the strongest in the party as well as the most competent rogue without much effort on my part. Self healing is a bit slow at early levels until level 13ish (depending on gear) when casting heal scrolls becomes reliable. Not having a reliable ranged attack is a glaring weakness that can be aggravating at times, for example at the end fight of GOP this build is useless. If the Doomsphere's con damage eye stalks hits you twice your helpless waiting on a disintergrate or polar ray to finish you off. Fists of light is mildly useful usually keeping you topped off but that's it. I like theme builds so Im sticking to the long sword theme until I find out if the Oath blade is worth the WSS feat slot. ATM im using Holy sword and sun blade with Adamantine knuckles and at level 16 I switched to twin Envonomed blades. If the Oath blade doesn't stand up to muster Ill probably switch out WSS for 10k stars or mobility. Debuffing mobs or champion red names can be hassle to deal with since having displacement isn't much help. As far as skills are concerned Ive maxed out balance , bluff , DD , search , spot , UMD , and concentrate. Ive put any remainder points into tumble and enough into jump to ensure 40 at level 20. This build requires very little buffing (which I love) the normal routine is gh(scroll) dw(pot) displacement and SV and Im off to the races . The Twilight blade plays out like a monk with rogue levels, very durable and hard to kill. here are a couple of pics showing the stats at level 17




gear at 17 is as follows :
gs cloak of smoke II (ref +5 perma blur and displacement clickie level 11)
spare hand ( DD & OL 15 staggering blow lvl 15) I also have the level 3/7/11 versions
ring of the stalker ( seeker 4 improve SA 3 ghost touch and man slayer level 15) I also have the level 11 version
skirmishers gloves ( strength 8 level 15)
con ring 6 (level 9)
skirmishers bracers ( dex 8)
white dragon scale robe (level 14)
gs goggles of co/op (wis 6 haggle/dip 10 char skills 6 con skills 4 int skills 2 wiz VI level 11)
totemic lavalier ( char 6 int 6 magi level 11)
skirmishers locket ( 8% dodge level 15)
treasure hunter's spyglass ( search spot 15 umd 1 trusight level 16) I also have the level 4/8/12 versions

special notes :
because of my gs cloak I run in wind stance 100% of the time ( I love the 12.5 attack speed and double strike)
when I get into trouble I do a bluff then hit invis clickie (as long as I don't move I usually can regain my health and allow harmfull effects to wear off etc (I don't know If its a bug or if that's the way its intended to work but Im not going to ***** lol)
I plan spending the 13 remaining points in the rogue trees
All in all I think this is one of the best rogue builds out there, maybie with a little tweaking this could be the bar none standard who knows. Ill comment again on the Twilight Blade again once I get to 23/24 and see if this long sword theme works

Yours Truly
Outlaw

Impressive gear, Outlaw! Any chance of equipping a Golden Guile? Its improved deception should stack with Harper weapon deception.

For enhancements, I see that you chose nothing is hidden. I do not have experience with that but it is very costly--9 AP. You may want to consider taking Kensei haste boost or the assassin line with Shiv and venomed blades (I love haste boost for bosses). Haste boost, when coupled with dual sources of Improved Deception, keeps an enemy turned around almost the entire time.

I see you also took Agility in the ninja tree. Since you are not at the max dodge cap anyway I suggest fists of iron. Unbalancing strike is another option, although its DC is based on monk and wisdom, so it might not be worth it since it will be difficult to land.

A very good enhancement line is Deft strikes in Shintao. It is costly at 7 AP but it gives an extra 10% offhand, which is about 5% more DPS.

Changes are in the air for the acrobat and assassin trees (see forum threads). Shadow dodge's cheap & awesome +6 dex will disappear but the haste boost will be at least cheaper. Damage boost for assassins will be cheaper. Also, faster sneaking is being moved to the assassin tree. So once the new changes are confirmed, AP should really not be spent in the acrobat tree at all and instead focused on assassin. Assassin will also get insta-bluff with a new Shiv attack (will be like the deepwood stalker core! whoot!) and it will use the bluff score. So keep bluff maxed for when that happens! With assassin damage boost and kensei haste boost one can activate them together. There may even be the chance to do both venomed blades and ninja sting--will wait and see.

The two big weaknesses of this build are CC and ranged. For me, the big weaknesses of assassins are defenses, CC and ranged; at least here the Twilight blade has excellent avoidance abilities via extended displace and incorporeality. One could dump Whirling Steel Strike and Weapon focus: slashing for Shuriken Expertise and Quickdraw. This will allow for at least some ranged power, boosted by the ninja core as well as Harper's ranged power and weapon buffs.

Have you attempted any stealth runs? I designed this build to skulk although it looks like you are helming it as a power zerger which is good to see. I think as a zerger though it will have difficulty in EE content unless in a party.

I expect the Oathblades to really be a game changer. Base die of d10 with vorpal (so 2.5d10) which you can buff with Dance of Flowers to 4d10 (so much better than lootgen and some named short swords at 3.5d6) along with an expanded crit range (15-20) and some on-weapon goodies and defenses. The Stars of Day, though, are 2d10 and have some very nice weapon effects (such as the radiance which even blinds on crit). However, their crit range is only 17-20 with IC: piercing. Celestia has the 2.5d10 as well as some CC weapon effects; if by chance you have one, I would put it in the offhand (its CC effects like Fiery Detonation will proc on the mainhand).

Thanks again for running with this build and please keep us posted!

[Saekee]

Watchers Blade is a good little longsword. Mmm crits like a khopesh
File:Item_Description_Watchers_Blade.png

hi Voxson5, that is a nice blade. I guess the Brush Hooks are similar (and easier to get). They also have a better base damage. I suppose one could use a Watcher's Blade in the offhand to also benefit from the defensive buffs (heightened awareness and exceptional wisdom).

[Saekee]

Since Shadowdancer gives incorporeality, one could save AP from the ninja tree. This gives some interesting options:

1. Go all out on longswords: add the 11 AP into the Elf tree including grace and doublestrike. Along with Kensei, harper etc. you will have +7 on longswords and more against evil targets. The elf top tier gives 3 dodge as well, making up for the loss of the ninja dodge bonus. This will ruin dex-based other weapons, including short swords and shurikens, so it is very much a one-trick pony. Just something to consider for an epic TR.
2. Take enough for core 3 of ninja tree (6 AP including dodge bonus). One could then take further enhancements in other trees, such as more sneak attack damage, elven bonuses, harper tree, etc. Two AP could be spent in Shintao for Fists of Iron.