merge heavy & light repeater feats

[xcharon79]

I read it just fine. DPS is provided only for Endless Fusillade (which can only be used a fixed number of times, for 6s each time, with 30s cooldown), and damage per shot for non EF - that's the true figure.

Increased proc chance goes in the repeater's favour, too.

which would only be an argument at all if there WERE any difference in rof.
maybe you should consider researching stuff, bringing up usable numbers, instead of constantly stating a subjective "opinion" with not-a-thing to back it up, or any reasoning for that matter.

go check it out

tests clearly show that any difference can be accounted to the measurment.
...yet ppl still argue about any non-existant thing that lights get, which wont apply for heavies.
where?

as a matter of fact, light rxb's get lower dice, without getting any rof in return, thats just a myth.
so either raise the rof, add more range or multiplyer, or add some of the drawbacks that heavies would get even WITH differing rof's.

[Theolin]

I would agree,
I think there should be 2 feats for xBows

1) non repeating xBows
2) repeating xBows
possible 3rd for great xBow

non-Arti

• If they use xBows for a main weapon then going to use repeating (there might be an exception)
• no endless - so nothing there
• I don't really see much of an increase in their damage, just swapping to best pre/suf-fix for the mob not caring about heavy vs light
• they would just get more utility in the xBows found / bought & less gearing issues
• without arti these builds probably do sub-average damage from the actual xBow(not counting things like sneak attack), so adding a tiny bit probably doesn't matter

Arti,

• endless with great ... probably be too much, if only 2 feats might need 3
• repeating - no change they get both anyway

dev time

• is it worth the dev time for some quality of life on a couple of builds?

overall I don't really see why not except for the dev time.

[Chi_Ryu]

which would only be an argument at all if there WERE any difference in rof.
maybe you should consider researching stuff, bringing up usable numbers, instead of constantly stating a subjective "opinion" with not-a-thing to back it up, or any reasoning for that matter.

go check it out

I have pointed out factual inaccuracies with your interpretation of other threads, perhaps you could actually prove me wrong by actually quoting the sections of the post you linked that gives non-Endless Fusillade DPS data?

The reply you've just given relates to the differences between different repeater types, and not at all relevant to your nonsense claim that i took exception to - namely that non repeaters are just as good as repeaters:

bottomline: repeaters are by far subpar, due to all
the stealthnerfs that are justified with multiple
proc propabilities, and end up behind even regular
xbows

I have not seen a single post that you've linked to that supports this, as opposed to the following quote from very thread you just linked here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ter-fire-rates

--> Rapid Shot AND Rapid Reload
Heavy Xbow 15
Great Xbow 15
Hvy Repeater 46

Look! Over twice as many bolts fired in a 20s period without Endless Fusillade.

So, perhaps you'd like to actually read the threads you link before spouting such undeserved vitriol? You might even gain some credibility with your suggestion to merge the feats?

[xcharon79]

@topic: well the "dev time" really shouldnt be an issue, considering the very little ammount of change required.


allso:

I have pointed out factual inaccuracies with your interpretation of other threads, perhaps you could actually prove me wrong by actually quoting the sections of the post you linked that gives non-Endless Fusillade DPS data?

The reply you've just given relates to the differences between different repeater types, and not at all relevant to your nonsense claim that i took exception to - namely that non repeaters are just as good as repeaters:

nope, theres been arguing with some imaginatory increase in rof and proc propabilities, wich is non-existant.
allso, the topic doesent say anything about regular x-bows. that they are included in the comparrison doesent make them part of the topic.
and quite frankly, if you had spent a single second thinking about it, youd figured that by yourself.

I have not seen a single post that you've linked to that supports this, as opposed to the following quote from very thread you just linked here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ter-fire-rates

i have linked 2 testing rows, wich should be enough.
still doubt it? hit the search function. wich ofc would reveal the consistancy of theese testings. *duh*

Look! Over twice as many bolts fired in a 20s period without Endless Fusillade.

like i sayd, second witness and stuff... learn to read.
the tests clearly show that there is NO difference whatsoever between light and heavies.
the slight difference in values can easily be accounted to connection latency.

So, perhaps you'd like to actually read the threads you link before spouting such undeserved vitriol? You might even gain some credibility with your suggestion to merge the feats?

oh rest assured, i did my homework BEFORE suggesting anything.
...instead of lets say arguing with pnp rules while the relevant ones dont even apply atm.

[Chi_Ryu]

i have linked 2 testing rows, wich should be enough.
still doubt it? hit the search function. wich ofc would reveal the consistancy of theese testings. *duh*

I see, you are unable to actually quote anything which refute my post, and instead think linking to a thread self-evidently proves your point. Got it.

The problem is that the threads that you linked to contained information that proved that you were talking nonsense in your earlier post, and that I cited directly. Look at my last post, and how I not only link to a thread with evidence, but also quote your false claim and quote the empirical evidence that proves your claim to be false. This is how it works.

learn to read.

Please try to discuss the issue at hand, and leave the ad hominem at home.

the tests clearly show that there is NO difference whatsoever between light and heavies.

...which was never my argument, nor my issue with your post - my issue was with your absurd claim that repeating crossbows are worse than non-repeating crossbows. You have constructed a strawman.

oh rest assured, i did my homework BEFORE suggesting anything.
...instead of lets say arguing with pnp rules while the relevant ones dont even apply atm.

Which I've never once done in this thread.

In summary: go back home and put more effort into your homework.

[xcharon79]

I see, you are unable to actually quote anything which refute my post, and instead think linking to a thread self-evidently proves your point. Got it.

ohhh, so your just too lazy and want it all spoonfed:
linked from this thread, no fusilage whatsoever

Heavy/Light     BAB     Rapid Reload     Rapid Shot     Time (seconds)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light            +0     Y                                75
Heavy            +0     Y                                74
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light            +4     Y                                76
Heavy            +4     Y                                72
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light           +14                      Y               68
Heavy           +14                      Y               69
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light           +15     Y                Y               56
Heavy           +15     Y                Y               57
------------------------------------------------------------------------

from the very first post of the thread ive allready linked a couple posts back. wich prooves the whole "one second" thing.
now would it have been so friggin hard to just click on the link, that it justifies highjacking this thread?

The problem is that the threads that you linked to contained information that proved that you were talking nonsense in your earlier post, and that I cited directly. Look at my last post, and how I not only link to a thread with evidence, but also quote your false claim and quote the empirical evidence that proves your claim to be false. This is how it works.

if anything it prooves how i did my homework. *cough*
your turn now, wheres this so called "evidence"?
the numbers are pretty clear, and THATS how it works.
NUMBERS baby, not your "my guts tell me" bs.

...which was never my argument, nor my issue with your post - my issue was with your absurd claim that repeating crossbows are worse than non-repeating crossbows. You have constructed a strawman.

how exactly did the threadtitle confuse you in any way?

In summary: go back home and put more effort into your homework.

despite me risking to sound repetitive: unlike you, i actually did.
and now, *shoo* back under your bridge troll!

allso, im still curious about those "evidential" test series(es)...
and welcome to the age of science, where numbers matter over oppinion(wich in your case still isnt backed up by any means other than "i say").

[Chi_Ryu]

First things first, this is the quote - from you, from the first page - that I object to, as it is factually incorrect. Please read this and pay attention, as this is what we are discussing.

bottomline: repeaters are by far subpar, due to all
the stealthnerfs that are justified with multiple
proc propabilities, and end up behind even regular
xbows

Here you have claimed that repeater crossbows are sub-par to regular crossbows, which is only true in one particular instance, whist using a Tier 4 enhancement and an action boost charge, and for 6s bursts with a 30s cooldown (i.e. Great Crossbows whilst under Endless Fusillade).

ohhh, so your just too lazy and want it all spoonfed:

I expect you to actually cite relevant information, yes - Forum threads have many posts within them, and it is good practice to outline precisely what you are referring to. This is not me being lazy, in fact quite the reverse.

linked from this thread, no fusilage whatsoever

0
Heavy/Light     BAB     Rapid Reload     Rapid Shot     Time (seconds)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light            +0     Y                                75
Heavy            +0     Y                                74
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light            +4     Y                                76
Heavy            +4     Y                                72
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light           +14                      Y               68
Heavy           +14                      Y               69
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light           +15     Y                Y               56
Heavy           +15     Y                Y               57
------------------------------------------------------------------------

This does not compare repeaters with non-repeaters and is therefore irrelevant to the issue I have been pulling you up on. This compares light repeating and heavy repeating crossbows, with a variety of BAB and enhancing feats - I have no issue with the point that these have the same rate of fire (indeed they do), this isn't the false claim I am asking you to back up.

Now try to back up your false claim about repeating crossbows being behind regular crossbows (see paragrah 1 of this post).

from the very first post of the thread ive allready linked a couple posts back. wich prooves the whole "one second" thing.
now would it have been so friggin hard to just click on the link, that it justifies highjacking this thread?

Perhaps you should re-read my posts. I've read every post in all the links you've provided, and you have still not defended your absurd claim (see first paragraph of this post if you have forgotten what this absurd claim was).

if anything it prooves how i did my homework. *cough*
your turn now, wheres this so called "evidence"?
the numbers are pretty clear, and THATS how it works.
NUMBERS baby, not your "my guts tell me" bs.

I've never once relied on a "my guts tell me" argument in this thread, perhaps you are confusing me with someone else? Indeed, quite the opposite, as you can see from post #43, citing your very own source of https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ter-fire-rates:

--> Rapid Shot AND Rapid Reload
Heavy Xbow 15
Great Xbow 15
Hvy Repeater 46

Look! A Heavy Repeater has a rate of fire drastically greater than the regular crossbows - almost threefold.

So, are you now going to retract your false claim (see paragraph 1 of my post), and perhaps even apologise for the unnecessary rudeness you have displayed?

how exactly did the threadtitle confuse you in any way?

I'm not discussing the thread title, I'm discussing the false claim you've made about repeaters vs. non-repeaters - see paragraph 1 from this post if you need a reminder.

despite me risking to sound repetitive: unlike you, i actually did.
and now, *shoo* back under your bridge troll!

I've reported your post for this continued ad hominem attack. Please try to stay on topic of backing up your false claim about repeater crossbows being less effective than non-repeater crossbows (see paragraph 1 of this post if you need a reminder).

allso, im still curious about those "evidential" test series(es)...
and welcome to the age of science, where numbers matter over oppinion(wich in your case still isnt backed up by any means other than "i say").

Again, I've not claimed "i say" at any time. This is a strawman. I've pulled you up on a false claim and linked to empirical research which you yourself cited.

Since your posts cannot get facts straight about the virtues of repeating vs. non-repeating crossbow, I find your claim to have "done your homework" dubious.

Did I mention that you should refer to paragraph 1 of this post? Oh, right, sorry. I just wanted to be sure since you've so cunningly avoided it in all your replies so far.

[bsquishwizzy]

Oooooohhhhh....THAT'S gonna leave a mark!

[bsquishwizzy]

Anyone claiming that repeaters are subpar when compared with non-repeaters is smoking something.

Likewise, I'm all for merging light and heavy repeater / non-repeater feats. However, there should be a STR / DEX minimum requirement to facilitate their use. Mainly because that is the difference between light and heavy XBows in general - draw strength.

[Cordovan]

Jeez, people, relax on the insults! A couple folks seem to be taking this discussion really personally.