Plastic Rogues

[UurlockYgmeov]

need an update.

I can handle the new quirks. Rogue hirelings are just there to give non-rogues trap skills. Call it just another tool in the toolbox. In fact, I am quite good at managing hirelings in general (when I use them) and rogue hirelings in particular.

However was questing yesterday - was running Von1-4 epic elite and trying to use a level 21 platinum rogue. Even with greater heroism, bard song: Inspire Competence, AND +9 stats (3x Druid Past lives AND Guild Buff) - could not even spot ANY of the traps (except the lever trap in Von4) without the skill boost.

Now VoN1-2 is level 21 (epic) and VoN2-3 is level 22 (epic) on elite they are levels 23 and 24 respectively.

I can respect a level 21 rogue hireling without buffs to need a skill boost for level 23 and 24 quests - but with all those buffs which equal 10.5???(+4GH +2 IC +4.5 Stat buffs)

What is wrong with this picture?

[JOTMON]

What is wrong with this picture?

You are using a hireling.

[UurlockYgmeov]

You are using a hireling.

I agree - but is cheaper that using an +30% xp pot. :P

I wasn't the leader of the group - but was a solid group. Just no rogue skills anywhere and Uurlock is on the 2nd of three PDK bard lives.

The lives after these Uurlock will be doing Shadar-kai Barbarian - 11 Barb 7 Wiz 2 Rog (Using PM and Harper Trees). He will be able to do ANY trap in the game.

But using plastic isn't what is wrong with the picture - plastic (hirelings) should be a viable option - a tactic - in this game. In this case it wasn't - not because of the players - or the levels - but because the hireling wasn't built correctly.

[JOTMON]

I agree - but is cheaper that using an +30% xp pot. :P

I wasn't the leader of the group - but was a solid group. Just no rogue skills anywhere and Uurlock is on the 2nd of three PDK bard lives.

The lives after these Uurlock will be doing Shadar-kai Barbarian - 11 Barb 7 Wiz 2 Rog (Using PM and Harper Trees). He will be able to do ANY trap in the game.

But using plastic isn't what is wrong with the picture - plastic (hirelings) should be a viable option - a tactic - in this game. In this case it wasn't - not because of the players - or the levels - but because the hireling wasn't built correctly.

I do agree the rogue hireling is flawed. The at level hireling rogue in elite content should be 50/50 without buffs on the disable side, but should be able to find all the traps for any at level quest.
The hireling rogue in Normal at level content should be no-fail without buffs.

[CThruTheEgo]

the hireling wasn't built correctly.

Maybe Turbine built them to recreate a realistic experience of finding a trapper in a pug.

Sarcasm aside, I agree they should be more effective at what you bring them along to do. Then again, the same could be said for other hires intended to fulfill a specific role (e.g. healer hirelings that don't heal).

[Mercureal]

I think the issue is that it was Epic Elite. As I'm sure you know, the difficulty scaling on EE doesn't match the nominal quest level. In my (limited) experience, trap DCs of all three types go up ~40-50% from EH to EE. At least in older content.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Maybe Turbine built them to recreate a realistic experience of finding a trapper in a pug.

Sarcasm aside, I agree they should be more effective at what you bring them along to do. Then again, the same could be said for other hires intended to fulfill a specific role (e.g. healer hirelings that don't heal).

*chuckle*

Wait - those characters that join your pug that have FvS or Cle as their icon - they are actually able to heal? What about the trend of pure rogues that say they cannot trap... cannot spot... nothing. ***?

so like you sarcasm aside - yes - should be fairly easy - they know the DC's of spot/search/disable/open of the quests - and just need to set a benchmark of an unbuffed rogue should be able to handle 99% of traps.locks.etc at their level.

[TeacherSyn]

I think the issue is that it was Epic Elite. As I'm sure you know, the difficulty scaling on EE doesn't match the nominal quest level. In my (limited) experience, trap DCs of all three types go up ~40-50% from EH to EE. At least in older content.

That's my experience. I use a "plastic" Rogue from time to time in Epic content. On EN, they do their job very reliably if the hireling is at-level or higher versus the quest, without buffs. To ensure this, I often use Gold Seals, which I can pop at 2 levels higher than I am.

On EH, their rolls become less effective but 50% of the time, I get lucky and they take down spell wards (the most common trap I face).

But forget EE. I have a Rogue that's tricked to the max that may find these hard to stop. EE requires the greatest skill and gear. And hirelings aren't built that way, even if over-level. Epic Elite requires a live party for even normal effectiveness most of the time.

I mis-read the thread title at first. A plastique Rogue should be used at a minimum safe distance, like a det-pack.

[UurlockYgmeov]

That's my experience. I use a "plastic" Rogue from time to time in Epic content. On EN, they do their job very reliably if the hireling is at-level or higher versus the quest, without buffs. To ensure this, I often use Gold Seals, which I can pop at 2 levels higher than I am.

On EH, their rolls become less effective but 50% of the time, I get lucky and they take down spell wards (the most common trap I face).

But forget EE. I have a Rogue that's tricked to the max that may find these hard to stop. EE requires the greatest skill and gear. And hirelings aren't built that way, even if over-level. Epic Elite requires a live party for even normal effectiveness most of the time.

I mis-read the thread title at first. A plastique Rogue should be used at a minimum safe distance, like a det-pack.

+1 thanks for the laugh! plastique! HAH! --Uurlock