Best race for harper / assasin rogue ?

[Skurkefar]

Hello DDO forums! First time writing here

Ive been playing for a while now, and kinda want to get into the rogue class. Ive tried making a drow rogue since the racial bonuses to int and dex seem perfect for a harper assasin, and it seems to work just fine!
The thing is ive not spent too much time on my drow to really get attatched to it yet, and have now earned enough gold to buy an iconic race! that got me thinking, the Sharda-Kai tree LOOKS amazing, with jaunt and whatnot, but when I do some research on the matter it seems that the general oppinion is that they´re awful?

Hence that brings me to you guys ! maybe some updates made the Sharda-Kai good after all the whiny posts ive read? or maybe I should stick to my drow, or perhaps a third option?

Thanks in advance!

PS: I dont mind the fact that I start 11 levels lower on my drow, building a char is no problem in my eyes and ill be happy to do so if it ends up stronger than a Sharda-kai!

[FranOhmsford]

Shadar-Kai is terrible!

Drow beats it all ends up!

Halfling, Human, Elf or H-Elf will beat it too!

[Skurkefar]

Yeah that appears to be the general consensus.
Im just left wondering, what makes them so bad? I mean compared to drow

[FranOhmsford]

Yeah that appears to be the general consensus.
Im just left wondering, what makes them so bad? I mean compared to drow

Compared to Drow?

Well the loss of 2 Int is pretty big!

But that's the reason why Drow wins over every other race for Rogue!

The biggest problem with Shadar-Kai though is their looks - Honestly even H-Elves look better!

Second biggest problem is that the Spiked Chain {their signature ability} is an absolute joke!

Third is that you have to actually pay real money for them that you'd be better off spending on Bladeforged or PDK for when you need to play other classes!


Finally - Shadar-Kai gives you pretty much nothing for ANY Build that you can't get from at least 2 other races!
It's simply not worth buying!

[Bolo_Grubb]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...san-s-Assassin

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...92#post5452092

A lot of discussion in those 2 threads about rogue assassins.

My personal preference is human for the extra feat. As a completionist it makes it easier to fit in the feats I want plus the completionist feat. I can get my assassinate dc to 72. So I am pretty happy with that. My build is most similar to Hassan's Assassin build in the first link, but both builds/links are very good.

[Skurkefar]

Okay I see : ) The things that drew me towards SK was the jaunt and gloomstalker enhancements pretty much
Money wise I would spend coins to unluck the race anyway.

Thanks alot for your input , Ill stick to my drow!

[Uska]

First life maybe drow for the int boost

[unbongwah]

TBH, which race you pick is less important than whether or not you have Harper, IMHO. That said, ignoring inherent stat bonuses, I think you want a race which provides the most bang-for-the-buck in their racial tree; i.e., all the best enhancements are available early on, so you can spend more APs into Assassin and Harper (and possibly the other rogue PrEs). Humans are good not only for the extra feat & skill pts, but because a mere 5 APs buys you Dmg Boost, +10% heal amp, and +1 INT. SDK is okay if you happen to want, say, Imp Dodge or Ghostly Essence (or just want to skip to the "good stuff" with Assassinate); I wish Gloom Stalker was a rank lower in their tree, though.

[Makkuroi]

Shadar Kai is only good for one thing: Quick PL builds for heroic PLs

Starting at 15 with a rogue level at 1 allows for more builds than PDK, and the 1% dodge past life is pretty nice. Iconics are easier to level than heroic builds and the iconic PL comes as a free bonus.

For a "final" build, drow and human are far better, with their specific advantages and disadvantages. Id go drow for an int build thats not too short on feats.

[painkiller3]

Shadar Kai is only good for one thing: Quick PL builds for heroic PLs

Starting at 15 with a rogue level at 1 allows for more builds than PDK, and the 1% dodge past life is pretty nice. Iconics are easier to level than heroic builds and the iconic PL comes as a free bonus.

For a "final" build, drow and human are far better, with their specific advantages and disadvantages. Id go drow for an int build thats not too short on feats.

the other thing that is nice (for melee in particular) is the active past life,

Iconic Past Life Stance: When you are below 50% hit points and get hit by an attack, you gain 25% incorporeality for 6 seconds per Past Life: Shadar-kai (6, 12, or 18 seconds). This can occur once every two minutes.

not so great on a maxed out dude, but for a lot of the game before you put on your EE Ring of Shadows, this is a nice defensive feature

[phillymiket]

First life maybe drow for the int boost

Yes maybe that.
I like some Human as well, the extra feat comes in real handy.
One AP in human for a Skill Boost insurance policy for traps and 1 AP for +1 Int is pretty good for a first lifer but until you have 34 or 36 point builds maybe Drow looks nice.
Also the Drow will have +1, +2 or +3 extra assassinate DC depending on level and that's huge.
I certainly don't think I'd have the feats to be a Dragon Mark Halfling and Shadar-kai offers nothing but PL feats and a "whoosh-whoosh chain" which I suppose you could use as a noise-maker to cheer on your favorite player in the PVP pits. I wouldn't recommend fighting with it or anything.
I can't think of any real good reasons to be anything else other than Human or Drow other than flavor or non-standard builds on a first life.

I don't see any reason to switch from what you are right now, OP.
Steady on.

[CThruTheEgo]

Between points spent in assassin, harper, and a few more in acrobat for some convenience (e.g. faster sneaking), you don't have many points left to spend in the racial tree. So whatever race you choose can't depend on the racial tree for it's greatest benefit. This is why drow and human are currently the best options. Their trees offer some great things for an assassin for very little cost, and they have some inherent racial benefits completely independent of the racial tree (e.g. free feat for human, higher starting int for drow).

Thematically I prefer drow, but practically I think human is the stronger choice.

[Livmo]

There is nothing wrong with Shadar-Kai. A build dos not have to be optimal to be fun to play or bei viable in Epic content. BTW the chain whip can be very effective if you figure out when the best times are to use it.

Again a build doesn't have to be optimal to be fun or be able to tackle EE content.

A bad workman blames his tools.
something that you say when someone blames the objects they are using for their own mistakes 'This oven burns everything.' 'You know what they say, a bad workman blames his tools.'

If you are skilled at the game and have an open mind and are able to learn and adapt, then you should have no problems playing a Shadar-Kai. I like 4 arty/rest rouge and I like 2 rouge rest wizzy. I have about 20 different shadars across all the servers.

[phillymiket]

There is nothing wrong with Shadar-Kai. A build dos not have to be optimal to be fun to play or bei viable in Epic content. BTW the chain whip can be very effective if you figure out when the best times are to use it.

Again a build doesn't have to be optimal to be fun or be able to tackle EE content.

A bad workman blames his tools.
something that you say when someone blames the objects they are using for their own mistakes 'This oven burns everything.' 'You know what they say, a bad workman blames his tools.'

If you are skilled at the game and have an open mind and are able to learn and adapt, then you should have no problems playing a Shadar-Kai. I like 4 arty/rest rouge and I like 2 rouge rest wizzy. I have about 20 different shadars across all the servers.

Sure. You could easily be WF or Dwarf or anything.

But OP said best for Harpassin and Shadar-kai isn't that IMO.

[Darknark]

Compared to Drow?

Well the loss of 2 Int is pretty big!

But that's the reason why Drow wins over every other race for Rogue!
!

That statement is incorrect.

Sun Elf, use a +1 heart, get your max DC without being drow and having weird build points.

Though, that also assumes that assassinate is still a thing for endgame content. The DC is rather low, even with the whole "sit around and do nothing to get +5 DC" enhancement.

And if the build is not intended for endgame content, the difference of 1 or 2 DC is not a factor. Epic Hard mobs kill themselves.

[Livmo]

Sure. You could easily be WF or Dwarf or anything.

But OP said best for Harpassin and Shadar-kai isn't that IMO.

That's right it's only your opinion and certainly not mine. I would take Shadar over Drow, but then again, that's my opinion.

There is no best, but rather varying shades of grey. Stats don't tell the whole story. Paper dragons abound. The person playing the toon is going to make most difference. There are allot of "optimal" builds played poorly every night when I'm on various servers. Some of you don't know it's it me in the PUG throwing you that rez and constantly having to hit you with Coccoon.

Here is Saekee's Guide that pairs well with a Shadar-Kai Assasian, https://sites.google.com/site/ddostealthteamsix/

[phillymiket]

That's right it's only your opinion and certainly not mine. I would take Shadar over Drow, but then again, that's my opinion.

There is no best, but rather varying shades of grey. Stats don't tell the whole story. Paper dragons abound. The person playing the toon is going to make most difference. There are allot of "optimal" builds played poorly every night when I'm on various servers. Some of you don't know it's it me in the PUG throwing you that rez and constantly having to hit you with Coccoon.

Here is Saekee's Guide that pairs well with a Shadar-Kai Assasian, https://sites.google.com/site/ddostealthteamsix/

Oh wow, what a great guide. I'll check it out, it looks super.

Yeah, o/c IMO only. Everyone needs a build that fits in with their own play-style.

As far as "it's the man behind the toon", that's true as well but that would be a constant in the equation because the person behind the toon will always be OP.
It's just like CThruTheEgo said, I'm just not sure how to get all the chain-whip goodies and the assassin stuff and have the fast sneak and the harper tree to boot.
I'd rather save investing in an extra tree and use that AP for other stuff like more Harper.
And I'll go further and say feat selection is in the same boat, there's just not a lot extra wiggle room, IMO, for Dragon Marks or any luxury non-core feats.
But just my opinion only. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Shadar-Kai build that would be better but I haven't yet.

[CThruTheEgo]

Though, that also assumes that assassinate is still a thing for endgame content. The DC is rather low, even with the whole "sit around and do nothing to get +5 DC" enhancement.

Assassinate works great at endgame if you build for it. The highest mob fort saves are still found in the Stormhorns. The 74 DC assassin in my sig (69 DC without measure the foe) was assassinating with about a 90% success rate in EE Stormhorns within the last few weeks. And I wasn't sitting around in sneak mode for +5 DC the whole time. I'd sneak between fights, assassinate, melee, drop into sneak when assassinate went off timer, assassinate, repeat.

[Livmo]

Oh wow.
What a great guide. I'll check it out, it looks super.

Yeah, o/c IMO only. Everyone needs a build that fits in with their own play-style.

As far as "it's the man behind the toon", that's true as well but that would be a constant in the equation because the person behind the toon will always be OP.
It's just like CThruTheEgo said, I'm just not sure how to get all the chain-whip goodies and the assassin stuff and have the fast sneak and the harper tree to boot.
I'd rather save investing in an extra tree and use that AP for other stuff like more Harper.
And I'll go further and say feat selection is in the same boat, there's just not a lot extra wiggle room, IMO, for Dragon Marks or any luxury non-core feats.
But just my opinion only. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Shadar-Kai build that would be better but I haven't yet.

Good points, I like to shoot, rather than slash or stab. Aside from a repeater it can be good to have a 1 shot regular xbow (prefer Night's Grasp and not sure if they still drop in game).

This is just one version. I do use Harper tree allot too.

http://i.imgur.com/ly8vm3E.jpg

This post shows how I use the Listen skill to get the drop on the baddies. They never had a chance : ) )

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5507803

[Livmo]

To overcome low will saves I get the Parasitic Breastplate from the Harbinger of Madness chain. At the Altar of Insanity in the 12 upgrade the plate with will save. The upgrade is +10 Will Save and works great starting at level 15.