I have a Paladin6/Monk14 build I'm working on that has very high healing amp and is a master in slaughtering undead.
I gain my 12th monk level (and Master stances) at character level 18.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page paladin monk Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male (6 Paladin \ 14 Monk \ 8 Epic) Hit Points: 393 Spell Points: 140 BAB: 16\16\21\26\26 Fortitude: 20 Reflex: 15 Will: 19 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28) Strength 14 14 Dexterity 16 17 Constitution 14 15 Intelligence 8 8 Wisdom 16 24 Charisma 8 9 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) Balance 3 11 Bluff -1 7 Concentration 6 39 Diplomacy -1 7 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle -1 7 Heal 7 24 Hide 3 11 Intimidate -1 7 Jump 2 28 Listen 3 15 Move Silently 3 11 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair -1 7 Search -1 7 Spellcraft -1 7 Spot 3 38 Swim 2 10 Tumble n/a 12 Use Magic Device n/a n/a Level 1 (Paladin) Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting Level 2 (Paladin) Level 3 (Paladin) Feat: (Selected) Dodge Level 4 (Paladin) Level 5 (Paladin) Level 6 (Paladin) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Slayer of Evil I (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Slayer of Evil II (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Remove Disease (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Remove Disease (Rank 2) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Remove Disease (Rank 3) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Attack Boost (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Attack Boost (Rank 2) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Attack Boost (Rank 3) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power (Rank 2) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power (Rank 3) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Restoration (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Demons (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Empowered Smite (Rank 1) Level 7 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1) Level 8 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Restoration (Rank 2) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Restoration (Rank 3) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Patient Tortoise (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1) Level 10 (Monk) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 1) Level 11 (Monk) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 3) Level 12 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Censure Outsiders (Rank 1) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Sealed Life (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) Level 13 (Monk) Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Smite Tainted Creature (Rank 1) Level 14 (Monk) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Jade Strike (Rank 1) Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Tomb of Jade (Rank 1) Level 16 (Monk) Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Defense Boost (Rank 1) Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1) Level 17 (Monk) Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Constitution (Rank 1) Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Saves Boost (Rank 1) Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Charisma (Rank 1) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms???? Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Spell Power Boost (Rank 1) Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Wisdom (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1) Level 19 (Monk) Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Constitution (Rank 1) Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Constitution (Rank 2) Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1) Level 20 (Monk) Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Level 21 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Martial Arts Level 22 (Epic) Level 23 (Epic) Level 24 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical Level 25 (Epic) Level 26 (Epic) Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Tactician Level 27 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed Level 28 (Epic) Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target
My question is this: Can I take Grandmaster of Forms as my 18th level feat selection?
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Results 1 to 10 of 10
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01-22-2015, 11:57 AM #1Community Member
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Upgrading Monk Stances on a Multiclass Monk
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01-22-2015, 12:08 PM #2
Yes. Provided you have at least 1 Monk level trained and are character level 18, you can now take Grandmaster of Forms. But you must have all other Form feats (Adept and Master) already trained as prerequisites.
Originally Posted by Weaver2012
Editor, The Book of Syncletica 2nd Edition: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide(Stormreach Shadows updates are in indefinite hiatus.)The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
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01-22-2015, 09:48 PM #3Community Member
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Thanks
Thank you, I had hoped that was the case. I guess what my question boiled down to was Am I considered to have Master of Forms in time to qualify for Grandmaster of Forms, even if I acquire both at the same level. Thanks again.
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01-23-2015, 12:18 AM #4Senior Member
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I can confirm that it works. Originally Posted by Weaver2012
Member of Spellswords on Ghallanda
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01-23-2015, 10:27 AM #5Community Member
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As others have pointed out, you could pick up grandmaster of forms at 18, but its not really worth the feat slot.
You're likely going to end up running in earth stance, (especially when you change your enhancements a bit and pick up iron skin).
Master of forms is a great cut off point, its 3 con, 12prr +1 crit and some threat, grand masterof forms is only 1more con, 3more prr, and sadly even more threat. With the prr/mrr systems in place now youre better off leaving agro to people in armor.
Also:
Toughness is a wasted feat, its 30hp at cap, (your level+2hp bonus). its not worth spending a feat at level 1 to gain 3hp.
Spring attack / Mobility arent really worth picking up unless your getting whirlwind attack so:
Drop toughness for Precision at 1, then pick up Combat Expertise at 12 (this lets you use tomes towards that pesky 13int)
Pick up whirlwind attack at 18.
Alternatively:
Drop toughness for power attack
Drop mobility for deflect arrows
Drop spring attack for cleave
Get great cleave at 18.
Lastly, Improved martial arts boosts your damage by 3.5 per attack (on average). Vorpal fists is an average of 5 damage per attack and lets you bypass slashing dr. Pick Vorpal fists instead of IMA.Last edited by fTdOmen; 01-23-2015 at 10:33 AM.
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01-23-2015, 05:51 PM #6Community Member
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I would prefer IMA to Vorpal Fists. The damage from IMA works against all targets (especially undead and constructs) and is multiplied by crits, helpless, sense weakness, No Mercy, Melee Power etc. so it's actually worth more than 3.5 damage per hit on average especially when you have Improved Critical, Overwhelming Critical and use Mountain Stance and Legendary Dreadnaught or Divine Crusader. Vorpal fists only works against humanoid targets and is not multiplied by melee power or crits. Even though the instakill and bypassing slashing damage is nice in lower level epics. Originally Posted by fTdOmen
Last edited by Firewall; 01-23-2015 at 05:54 PM.
Snipercannon, Shuricannon 2.0, Nethercannon
Outdated:Shiradi Shuricannon, Shiradi Warcannon...Throwers for the win!
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01-23-2015, 07:58 PM #7Community Member
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Vorpal fists is useful against undead purely for the slashing dr, theres enough litches and zomies in necro iv that slashing is more useful than a bonus +1 [W] in the highest level epics too. Originally Posted by Firewall
Vorpal fists is not manslayer, it works on alotmore than just humanoid enemies, it does stack with manslayer though.
The same argument you use to boost the average output of impoved martial arts can be made for vorpal fists, if you take into account insta kill dps.
Ultimately, I would take both and give up blinding speed, since its so easily replaced with gear now, but I would still take vorpal fists first.Last edited by fTdOmen; 01-23-2015 at 08:35 PM.
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01-23-2015, 09:19 PM #8Community Member
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Let's say Vorpal Strikes is much more situational. You need the monster to be vulnerable to loosing its head. In higher level epics the instakill portion vs. EE monsters becomes negligible because they have so many HP and the DPS is usually high enough that you would have killed the monster anyway if you hit it while below 1000 HP and roll a 20. So basically it comes down to 5 damage on average vs. monsters that are no undead, no constructs, no vampires, oozes etc. and 0 damage if they are. Originally Posted by fTdOmen
If the monster has Slashing DR it performs better but vs. liches and zombies it will only negate the DR in that case.
IMA on the other hand when running in Legendary Dreadnaught assuming ~100 melee power in Blitz and 19-20x5 crit you do an average of 9.8 (=3.5x2x.9+3.5x2x5x0.1) damage per hit against every target. More if your melee power is higher than 100 (when using his Melee Power Boost). And since he is human he could take Human Damage Damage boost and/or take Action Boost Damage from Legendary Dreadnaught which would multiply that damage further. And when using Exalted Smite you get even more crit range and multiplier. You would even surpass DR15 slashing. Even with high fort mobs assuming 80% armor piercing that is quite a lot and you don't loose effectiveness vs. certain monsters.
I'm not saying Vorpal Strikes is a bad choice - just that i would prefer IMA because it is more universal and certainly not worse. With the right setup you can have more benefit from it.Last edited by Firewall; 01-23-2015 at 09:26 PM.
Snipercannon, Shuricannon 2.0, Nethercannon
Outdated:Shiradi Shuricannon, Shiradi Warcannon...Throwers for the win!
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01-23-2015, 09:31 PM #9Community Member
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Yes probably a good choice. Vorpal Strikes is much more effective in lower levels. Originally Posted by fTdOmen
Snipercannon, Shuricannon 2.0, Nethercannon
Outdated:Shiradi Shuricannon, Shiradi Warcannon...Throwers for the win!
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01-28-2015, 04:14 AM #10
You can even go further than that. Originally Posted by Weaver2012
I had a build that only had 10 Monk levels at level 18, so not even master stance. I got master stance at level 20 where I got the 12th monk level.
After that I visited Fred and replaced the feat I took at level 18 (which was just a placeholder) with grandmaster stance.Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
Ghallanda - Ethrayne - Ethryne --- Omnipresence
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