War Dancer

[Jasparion]

Anyone want to have a crack at updating this build?

Would need to be a Bard past-live, but should it still go for the 5 Ranger levels? Should it go for 2 Rogue and some Fighter levels instead?

My plan is to dual wield Handaxes. Does that interfere with anything in any of the above builds? Is Dex for Hit and Damage viable or should Str be stacked? Or if I go 2 Rogue, should I be Int to Hit and Damage and go for Know the Angles?

[Tom116]

Anyone want to have a crack at updating this build?

Would need to be a Bard past-live, but should it still go for the 5 Ranger levels? Should it go for 2 Rogue and some Fighter levels instead?

My plan is to dual wield Handaxes. Does that interfere with anything in any of the above builds? Is Dex for Hit and Damage viable or should Str be stacked? Or if I go 2 Rogue, should I be Int to Hit and Damage and go for Know the Angles?

It's missing a critical multiplier and critical range boost, so damage would be meh as is. The trouble with Warchanter is that it provides neither so taking the T5 from that very much dedicates you to pushing the freeze DC's and making yourself CC rather than dps.

You would probably be better off with 12 Bard/8 Fighter using Kensei as your main tree and warchanter as a secondary, dual wielding hand axes is fine. Int based would go well, especially with KtA for the T3 freeze. From a pure bard you're missing 6 DC (Half of 20 vs Half of 12), but you'd have much stronger damage output and the KtA would help a lot with the DC. Int as your main, Cha and Con as secondaries, and enough dex to hit 17 with tomes for TWF line would be solid.
2 Rogue is fine to be adding in here too, but there's no rule forcing you into light armor so not sure if the evasion outweighs medium armor (or heavy with some ASF) + stalwart defense. That being said, you could still use it for trapping. You'd lose a level 4 spell but not a big loss if you take it out of bard, you lose +3 to hit/damage from kensei plus a feat if you take it out of fighter.

To get the same damage effect from ranger levels, you'd need 12 since and most of your AP's since the multi and range are both tied to level 12 cores, in two separate trees.

[Jasparion]

It's missing a critical multiplier and critical range boost, so damage would be meh as is. The trouble with Warchanter is that it provides neither so taking the T5 from that very much dedicates you to pushing the freeze DC's and making yourself CC rather than dps.

You would probably be better off with 12 Bard/8 Fighter using Kensei as your main tree and warchanter as a secondary, dual wielding hand axes is fine. Int based would go well, especially with KtA for the T3 freeze. From a pure bard you're missing 6 DC (Half of 20 vs Half of 12), but you'd have much stronger damage output and the KtA would help a lot with the DC. Int as your main, Cha and Con as secondaries, and enough dex to hit 17 with tomes for TWF line would be solid.
2 Rogue is fine to be adding in here too, but there's no rule forcing you into light armor so not sure if the evasion outweighs medium armor (or heavy with some ASF) + stalwart defense. That being said, you could still use it for trapping. You'd lose a level 4 spell but not a big loss if you take it out of bard, you lose +3 to hit/damage from kensei plus a feat if you take it out of fighter.

To get the same damage effect from ranger levels, you'd need 12 since and most of your AP's since the multi and range are both tied to level 12 cores, in two separate trees.

Okay thanks. I will see if I am the designated trapper. If Im not taking Rogue then I dont think I would need to go for the Int and KTA if AP are going to be tight, so would be happy just pushing Dex up. Though I may just go Rogue anyway, and have the Evasion.

So 10/8/2 or 12/6/2 are my options. And Human or Drow. Possibly Drow because I havent done that in a while and I get plenty of feats with the Fighter levels. And the extra Dex and Int is nice.

[adrian69]

It's missing a critical multiplier and critical range boost, so damage would be meh as is. The trouble with Warchanter is that it provides neither so taking the T5 from that very much dedicates you to pushing the freeze DC's and making yourself CC rather than dps.

You would probably be better off with 12 Bard/8 Fighter using Kensei as your main tree and warchanter as a secondary, dual wielding hand axes is fine. Int based would go well, especially with KtA for the T3 freeze. From a pure bard you're missing 6 DC (Half of 20 vs Half of 12), but you'd have much stronger damage output and the KtA would help a lot with the DC. Int as your main, Cha and Con as secondaries, and enough dex to hit 17 with tomes for TWF line would be solid.
2 Rogue is fine to be adding in here too, but there's no rule forcing you into light armor so not sure if the evasion outweighs medium armor (or heavy with some ASF) + stalwart defense. That being said, you could still use it for trapping. You'd lose a level 4 spell but not a big loss if you take it out of bard, you lose +3 to hit/damage from kensei plus a feat if you take it out of fighter.

To get the same damage effect from ranger levels, you'd need 12 since and most of your AP's since the multi and range are both tied to level 12 cores, in two separate trees.

Warchanter gets +1 to multiplier of any weapon at tier 5 Howl of the North: +1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20.. You have to swashbuckler to get added threat +x range though, so you're stuck using those weapons. Saw some interested 15 bard 3 ftr 2 rogue builds that use new dagger tree. swashbuckling, like 19-21 AP, 13 SD. KTA and rest in VKF. AP are tight Saw a dex and a charisma versions.

[Tom116]

Warchanter gets +1 to multiplier of any weapon at tier 5 Howl of the North: +1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20.. You have to swashbuckler to get added threat +x range though, so you're stuck using those weapons. Saw some interested 15 bard 3 ftr 2 rogue builds that use new dagger tree. swashbuckling, like 19-21 AP, 13 SD. KTA and rest in VKF. AP are tight Saw a dex and a charisma versions.

True, but not a full crit multiplier boost. 19-20 +1 is nice, but +1 for any crit is a given for most melee trees. You'd be missing out on the T5 nice things from swash or VKF. Definitely could work though, so long as you were swashbuckling for the other boosts. They wanted a 2WF build though, so swash is out

[C-Dog]

Anyone want to have a crack at updating this build?

Would need to be a Bard past-live, but should it still go for the 5 Ranger levels? Should it go for 2 Rogue and some Fighter levels instead?

My plan is to dual wield Handaxes. ...

Remember, DDO is not D&D - one of the biggest diffs for character planning is Enhancements, which are at least as important as feats and class abilities.

Ranger 5 is for Tempest Tier V Dance of Death, which is where a lot of the DPS of this build comes from.

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Tempest_enhancements#Tier_Five

I would strongly recommend changing the class level order - Ranger 5 at Level 5 gives you very little (since you can't get to Tier 5 until Char Level 12) - Bard 1 is far superior for the money, maybe as early as Char Level 3 (or before?). Lots of trade-offs to consider (plus some re-balancing of AP's if not a Str build).

Or if I go 2 Rogue, should I be Int to Hit and Damage and go for Know the Angles?

Int-to-damage is 12 AP from Harper tree - what are you going to cut?

As for adding in a Rog dip, it's not that Bard 15 is a particular hard cutpoint, it's that the various Freezing effects all work off (1/2) Bard Level, so you're trying to grab as many of those as possible - tho' for that, 14 is the same as 15. Not sure if diluting that by -1 DC in exchange for Evasion and Trapping* would be a recommended tradeoff, as I fear it's already too much closer to 0% than 100% for a build without past-lives.

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Bard#Advancement_Table
o http://ddowiki.com/page/Warchanter_enhancements

(* For that matter, not sure if a non-Dex build (or non-Int build w/ Insightful Reflexes) would be worth worrying about Evasion, and also whether a non-Int build could get enough Trapping to do the job. Def a balancing act - unless you ~can~ adapt this to an Int build.)

[unbongwah]

Would need to be a Bard past-live, but should it still go for the 5 Ranger levels? Should it go for 2 Rogue and some Fighter levels instead?

I consider this build obsolete. You can still run it, of course, but it predates all the DPS buffage to Tempest in the ranger pass, so it's going to feel a lot weaker than it did 3 years ago. But the deeper you MC this build, the less "bard-y" it's gonna feel.

[For a while, I ran a bard / rgr which combined Swashbuckling with Dance of Death. Worked great, but then the devs nerfed / bugfixed DoD so it only worked while dual-wielding. Hit wolf builds the hardest, of course, but it also nerfed that build too, so oh well.]

For a TWF PL template, I would consider rgr 6 / ftr 6 / <TR class> 8: tier-5 Tempest + Strike w/no Thought provides the DPS; Stalwart defensive stance adds some survivability. That's not really what this build is about, though.

[Jasparion]

I consider this build obsolete. You can still run it, of course, but it predates all the DPS buffage to Tempest in the ranger pass, so it's going to feel a lot weaker than it did 3 years ago. But the deeper you MC this build, the less "bard-y" it's gonna feel.

[For a while, I ran a bard / rgr which combined Swashbuckling with Dance of Death. Worked great, but then the devs nerfed / bugfixed DoD so it only worked while dual-wielding. Hit wolf builds the hardest, of course, but it also nerfed that build too, so oh well.]

For a TWF PL template, I would consider rgr 6 / ftr 6 / <TR class> 8: tier-5 Tempest + Strike w/no Thought provides the DPS; Stalwart defensive stance adds some survivability. That's not really what this build is about, though.

6 Ranger, 6 Fighter, 8 Bard works for me. I assume I go Dex for Hit and Damage? Given I wont have Evasion I just go for Medium armor?

I assume I can even just progress in that order? 6 Ranger then 6 Fighter then the 8 Bard?

[unbongwah]

6 Ranger, 6 Fighter, 8 Bard works for me. I assume I go Dex for Hit and Damage? Given I wont have Evasion I just go for Medium armor?

There's no particular reason to go DEX-based w/out Evasion; and STR bonuses are easier to come by than DEX bonuses. You can use Skaldic Rage + Rage spell until you switch to defensive stance.

I assume I can even just progress in that order? 6 Ranger then 6 Fighter then the 8 Bard?

I would probably start bard just to unlock class skills + Skaldic Rage; then rgr 1-3; then ftr 1-6 to get SwNT; rgr 4-6; bard 2-8. I think that works out...

Tempest Kensei
8/6/6 Bard/Fighter/Ranger
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Bard            6. Fighter        11. Ranger         16. Bard
2. Ranger          7. Fighter        12. Ranger         17. Bard
3. Ranger          8. Fighter        13. Ranger         18. Bard
4. Ranger          9. Fighter        14. Bard           19. Bard
5. Fighter        10. Fighter        15. Bard           20. Bard


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        17       +4       4: STR
Dexterity       13       +4       8: STR
Constitution    15       +4      12: STR
Intelligence    16       +4      16: STR
Wisdom           8       +4      20: STR
Charisma         8       +4


Feats

 1        : Power Attack
 1 Human  : Cleave
 3        : Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
 5 Fighter: Great Cleave
 6        : Stunning Blow
 6 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Slashing
 8 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
 9        : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Fighter: Precision
12        :
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18        :

 2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider OR Construct


Enhancements (78 of 80 AP)

Tempest (40 AP)
Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest
Improved Reaction II, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades, Sprint Boost III
Storm Dancer, Critical Mastery III, Whirling Blades, Strength
Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades
Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Whirling Blades, Dance of Death III

Kensei (14 AP)
Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought
Weapon Group Specialization, Exotic Weapon Mastery, Haste Boost III
Weapon Group Specialization
Weapon Group Specialization

Stalwart Defender (13 AP)
Toughness, Stalwart Defense
Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
Tenacious Defense III

Harper Agent (8 AP)
Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles III

Human (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

Leveling Guide
Hum0 Damage Boost; Hum1 Improved Recovery; War0 Skaldic: Rage
Tem0 Shield of Whirling Steel; War1 Poetic Edda I, II, III
Tem1 Whirling Blades; Tem1 Improved Reaction I, II
Tem0 Tempest; Tem2 Sprint Boost I; Tem2 Whirling Blades
Ken0 Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II, III
Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken1 Exotic Weapon Mastery
Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken0 Spiritual Bond; Tem2 Sprint Boost II
Tem3 Whirling Blades; Tem3 Storm Dancer
Tem2 Sprint Boost III; Tem2 Improved Parry I, II, III
Ken0 Strike with No Thought; Tem3 Critical Mastery I, II, III
Reset Human
Tempest
(none)
(none)
(none)
Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades
Reset Warchanter
Tempest
(none)
(none)
Strength
(none)
Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III
Tem5 Dual Perfection; Tem5 Whirling Blades
Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization; SD0 Toughness; SD1 Item Defense I
SD1 Durable Defense I, II, III; SD0 Stalwart Defense
Hum0 Damage Boost; Hum1 Improved Recovery; SD2 Instinctive Defense I
SD2 Resilient Defense I, II, III; SD3 Tenacious Defense I
SD3 Tenacious Defense II, III; Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Traveler's Toughness I
Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp1 Traveler's Toughness II; Hrp2 Know the Angles I
Hrp2 Know the Angles II, III

Typical khopesh layout: naturally you'll tweak things if you want handaxes instead. Normally I skip the Cleave feats on a Tempest, but since this is an HTR-only build, they do help for lower heroic leveling until you get Dance of Death and you can certainly spare the feats. Do what you want with the two empty feat slots.