Axel's THF Melee Cleric Build

[Son_of_the_South]

So Axel, looking to build 13/6/1 with the next update? Is it still going to be worth taking the THF line now that they're removing the melee power element?

[axel15810]

So Axel, looking to build 13/6/1 with the next update? Is it still going to be worth taking the THF line now that they're removing the melee power element?

Unless I missed a dev post somewhere I thought only the TWF feats were being changed, not THF. And even if you're running a TWF variant of this build (which I am currently), the loss of a little melee power is by no means build breaking.

Overall, the build is pretty resistant to the changes. I don't think it will have to be modified. The 4 pally levels is a nice shield against the divine grace nerf. We're getting hit by the heavy armor nerf, but so is everyone else.

I'm still a little confused how the armor PRR bonuses now being based on BAB will work. Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to BAB of my character in years because it has been for the most part an irrelevant stat. Looking forward to testing it out when the changes go live, I'm still confused as to whether casting divine power whenever I don't have tenser's cast will give extra PRR.

The balance changes seem to be an indirect buff for battle clerics. Theoretically, our healing should be needed more now that heavy armor types are going to be taking more damage. And that ravagers have a 1 sec cooldown. Also, the holy sword and divine grace nerfs neither really affect us, but affect 14+ paladin and smaller 2 pally splashes so our saves are now higher than more builds and our DPS has gotten closer to paladins.

[unbongwah]

The main consequence of the crit changes is that mauls, greataxes, and falchions are about to be put on par.

Old system (LD):

• maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 31 effective hits
• greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 19-20/x6 (OC+DC+HC) = 29 effective hits
• falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 15-18/x2 19-20/x4 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits

New system (LD):

• maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 18-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits
• greataxe & falchions remain the same

Mauls are still preferable for Anvil of Thunder, IMHO, while falchions are preferable for proc-on-crit effects like Dragon's Edge; but it terms of regular dmg, all three will be roughly on par.

[Son_of_the_South]

The main consequence of the crit changes is that mauls, greataxes, and falchions are about to be put on par.

Old system (LD):

• maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 31 effective hits
• greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 19-20/x6 (OC+DC+HC) = 29 effective hits
• falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 15-18/x2 19-20/x4 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits

New system (LD):

• maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 18-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits
• greataxe & falchions remain the same

Mauls are still preferable for Anvil of Thunder, IMHO, while falchions are preferable for proc-on-crit effects like Dragon's Edge; but it terms of regular dmg, all three will be roughly on par.

Looks like I got confused with TWF Axel.

Unbongwah: What are the acronyms there? I get overwhelming crit but what's DC (Divine Crusader) and HC (Headmans Chop?)

[unbongwah]

Unbongwah: What are the acronyms there? I get overwhelming crit but what's DC (Divine Crusader) and HC (Headmans Chop?)

Sorry, in this case DC = Devastating Crit. HC is Headman's Chop.

[ccd1977]

With all the new changes, would a S&B version of this build be good? I am trying this build out and like it but would really like more survivability for my PDK.

[axel15810]

With all the new changes, would a S&B version of this build be good? I am trying this build out and like it but would really like more survivability for my PDK.

I don't think so. Unlike other fighting styles, getting good DPS from S&B depends on a solid enhancement point investment. If you want aura and 15 cleric levels you won't have access to the higher tiers of the vanguard tree or enough action points to spend there (or access to the higher vanguard cores). I think the other fighting styles have much better synergy.

[ccd1977]

I don't think so. Unlike other fighting styles, getting good DPS from S&B depends on a solid enhancement point investment. If you want aura and 15 cleric levels you won't have access to the higher tiers of the vanguard tree or enough action points to spend there (or access to the higher vanguard cores). I think the other fighting styles have much better synergy.

Ya. I noticed.Radiant servant ate all my points up and gimped my character on the DPS bad. Thanks for the help./

[BigErkyKid]

The main consequence of the crit changes is that mauls, greataxes, and falchions are about to be put on par.

Old system (LD):

• maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 31 effective hits
• greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 19-20/x6 (OC+DC+HC) = 29 effective hits
• falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 15-18/x2 19-20/x4 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits

New system (LD):

• maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 18-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits
• greataxe & falchions remain the same

Mauls are still preferable for Anvil of Thunder, IMHO, while falchions are preferable for proc-on-crit effects like Dragon's Edge; but it terms of regular dmg, all three will be roughly on par.

Anvil of thunder on a crit profile 18-20/x3 is like banking on finding four leaf clover for DPS. It procs 3/20 times on a 12 seconds cool down.

Right now the maul is quite suboptimal on this build, falchion is without doubt the way to go. It is not about effective hits anymore when we have over 20 seeker and such powerful on crit effects (dragon's edge and tier 3s for TF).

[Son_of_the_South]

Anvil of thunder on a crit profile 18-20/x3 is like banking on finding four leaf clover for DPS. It procs 3/20 times on a 12 seconds cool down.

Right now the maul is quite suboptimal on this build, falchion is without doubt the way to go. It is not about effective hits anymore when we have over 20 seeker and such powerful on crit effects (dragon's edge and tier 3s for TF).

This also means you will miss out on utilising Headman's Chop or Pulverizer if running in LD as neither allow for Falchion. This might be a minor issue for some but worth noting.

[sk8r_dan_man]

Why do you suggest such high charisma? What are you using charisma for that makes it so important? Is it the paladin's 2nd lvl save boosting ability?

[axel15810]

Why do you suggest such high charisma? What are you using charisma for that makes it so important? Is it the paladin's 2nd lvl save boosting ability?

Yes, this build has divine grace so CHA modifier is added to your saves.

CHA modifier is also added to STR when using divine might.

[Bart_D]

Quick question: How bad do you think it would be to lose 3 cleric levels for more melee levels, ie 12cleric/6paladin/2fighter ?
Do cleric levels 13-15 give anything you feel you'd need for group/solo quests as opposed to raid healing from bigger mass cures etc.?

The idea is to get an extra feat and a little more melee damage, focusing on levels 20-27.

[unbongwah]

Quick question: How bad do you think it would be to lose 3 cleric levels for more melee levels, ie 12cleric/6paladin/2fighter ?

Exactly what do you expect to add with this level split which will boost your melee DPS significantly? Pal 6 really only grants access to lvl 6 core (d4->d8 Light dmg); if you take T5 KotC for Avenging Cleave, you lose Radiant Aura, which kinda defeats the purpose of this build. This build already takes all the major melee DPS feats, so an extra ftr feat only buys you an incremental bonus, like +2 Melee Power from a Weapon Focus feat.

Even if you never use lvl 8 spells, you're still sacrificing 3 caster lvls, which reduces your healing by that much. It just doesn't seem like a great tradeoff...

[axel15810]

Quick question: How bad do you think it would be to lose 3 cleric levels for more melee levels, ie 12cleric/6paladin/2fighter ?
Do cleric levels 13-15 give anything you feel you'd need for group/solo quests as opposed to raid healing from bigger mass cures etc.?

The idea is to get an extra feat and a little more melee damage, focusing on levels 20-27.

Pretty much what above said. I don't see the trade off being worth it. You don't need the feat and there's not much of a DPS boost from 1 more fighter and 2 more pally levels. And once you start splashing that deep you have to start asking yourself why you shouldn't just drop cleric altogether and go paladin instead.

[Bart_D]

Yes, I was mostly thinking of Slayer of Evil 2 which would give 2d6 light instead of 1d8 and make all attacks ghost touch. Not the greatest thing but something.
An extra feat would mean getting GTHF sooner and getting another feat like Bulwark of Defense or Completionist.

Speaking of feats... what are Maximize and Empower for? They should be great for Positive Energy Burst but is that all?

Actually, I have started the character already, but still not certain I will take all 15 cleric levels. 13/6/1 and 12/6/2 look like decent candidates too.
Positive Energy Aura is nice with 11 cleric levels but bigger numbers would be better (and 12-13 cleric levels instead of 15 will reduce it by 20% right?)

[axel15810]

Yes, I was mostly thinking of Slayer of Evil 2 which would give 2d6 light instead of 1d8 and make all attacks ghost touch. Not the greatest thing but something.
An extra feat would mean getting GTHF sooner and getting another feat like Bulwark of Defense or Completionist.

Speaking of feats... what are Maximize and Empower for? They should be great for Positive Energy Burst but is that all?

Actually, I have started the character already, but still not certain I will take all 15 cleric levels. 13/6/1 and 12/6/2 look like decent candidates too.
Positive Energy Aura is nice with 11 cleric levels but bigger numbers would be better (and 12-13 cleric levels instead of 15 will reduce it by 20% right?)

Maximize is for bursts mainly. Also it boosts your mass cures and various other ED abilities/spells, but that's not as important.

Empower further improves your bursts. You could get by without empower if you want. But I don't see other feats being a better option. Certainly some other feats have very good arguments. But I find the extra self healing and group healing you get from empower (not to mention being able to apply it to various other abilities) to be the all around most useful for this build.

[Xxyyn]

Hey,

I'm going to TR to this today after 3x wizard and 1x bard life, so I won't have the 9% double strike sadly. Going PDK 15/4/1 as in your original post. I'll be level 15. I know you said 15-20 is toughest for this build :*( Any new thoughts on the build or leveling?

Thanks!

[fabfab555]

Hi Axel,

any update with the new level cap? Change of gear (I think that some of the new random loot could be even better than some of the old named items we used)?

Also it seems from your youtube channel that you are dual wielding now?

For weapons, thunderforged Vs Leg GS?

Thx a lot,

I love the build

[axel15810]

Hi Axel,

any update with the new level cap? Change of gear (I think that some of the new random loot could be even better than some of the old named items we used)?

Also it seems from your youtube channel that you are dual wielding now?

For weapons, thunderforged Vs Leg GS?

Thx a lot,

I love the build

Oh yes, for sure the gear layout is changing. To what, I'm not sure yet. With random loot in it's current state, it's tough to give an exact gear setup since others will probably have difficulty finding the same random loot I do. But I'll try and update the OP at some point.

I was dual wielding because it made more sense than THF for this build getting through primal PL. I'm back to THF now, sitting at cap running the new content for the most part. As far as weapon I'm using epic riftmaker at the moment. It seems to be the best THF choice for the legendary content (or very close to) since mortal fear doesn't work in legendary.

As far as Leg GS weapons, I've not delved into the numbers much but haven't heard very good things. And on first glace it didn't look very impressive. I am running the legendary shroud regularly, at some point I'll probably end up crafting one.