Buff the Angel of Vengeance tree, please.

[Zachski]

Let's face it, FVS right now is one of the worst classes in the game to play as a caster.

The reason why is mostly that literally every other caster class in the game gets something FVS doesn't - SLAs. They have less staying power than Clerics do - which is the sheer opposite of what the character is supposed to be. The closest thing they get to an SLA they don't even get until level 20, and even then, it's not helpful.

The first and best thing we can do is add SLAs. Not a strict copy of Radiant Servant's SLAs, either.

Bearing in mind I'm basing this off of the theme of "Divine wrath made manifest"

First of all, make it so that alignment spell damage is included in all of the enhancements that rely on certain types of spells or boost spellpower and crit. Why? Because alignment spells are an inherent part of any divine class. In fact, there aren't any arcane classes that use them, unless you count the weapon alignment spells that Artificer has. It is ridiculous, then, that Angel of Vengeance doesn't get any bonus from using a special brand of divine magic.

(You might also consider moving alignment damage from spellcraft to heal, for the same reason I just mentioned - no arcane class gets to use it, only divine classes - and it should be boosted by their wisdom, not their intelligence. You already have negative energy being boosted by heal so this isn't far-fetched.)

And with that in mind...

Tier 1 SLA: Deific Vengeance (The divine power of an angry deity imposes a punishment in the form of a sharp, spiritual blow to the target, dealing 1d3+3 points of good damage per 2 caster levels (Maximum damage 5d3+15.), or 1d3+3 points of good damage per caster level (Maximum damage 10d3+30.) if the target is Undead. A successful Will save reduces this damage by half.)

You might be wondering why I'm picking this spell over Nimbus of Light. For one thing, picking Nimbus of Light just makes me feel like I'm copying the light side of Divine Disciple. For another, the way this spell scales makes it not overpowered even in the hands of a level 1 caster, but also keeps it useful for awhile. Besides, it's not like it's unheard of for some spellcasters to get level 2 spells in their level 1 slots.

Tier 2 SLA: Scorch (A jet of roaring flame bursts from your outstretched hand, dealing 1d4+4 fire damage per 2 caster levels (max 5d4+20) to targets in its path. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half. )

If Dark Disciple can borrow from Arcane spellcasters with Chill Touch, then Angel of Vengeance can borrow from Arcane spellcasters with Scorch. This would give Angel of Vengeance a nice boost over Cleric in that it gets an AoE damaging spell very early on, as opposed to later.

Tier 3 SLA: Searing Light (Focuses divine power like a ray of the sun, causing a blast of light to deal 1d4+4 light damage per 2 caster levels (Maximum damage 5d4+20.), or deals 1d3+3 light damage per caster level to Undead. (Maximum damage 10d3+30.))

It goes without saying.

Tier 4 SLA: Holy Smite / Order's Wrath / Chaos Hammer / Unholy Blight

Another AoE spell. Selectable for optimal enjoyment.

Tier 5 SLA: Flamestrike

And to wrap things up, giving it something that it WOULD share in common with Divine Disciple, gaining Flamestrike as an SLA at Tier 5.

Now, I may not have picked the best spells, and I invite the other players to present better options for these levels.

Also, I'm really interested in what the healing tree for FVS would look like. Because right now, Cleric is the only class in the game that has a tree devoted to healing. So please at least give us some information that there's one planned? Same for Druid, honestly.

[LuKaSu]

Let's face it, FVS right now is one of the worst classes in the game to play as a caster.

The reason why is mostly that literally every other caster class in the game gets something FVS doesn't - SLAs. They have less staying power than Clerics do - which is the sheer opposite of what the character is supposed to be. The closest thing they get to an SLA they don't even get until level 20, and even then, it's not helpful.

The first and best thing we can do is add SLAs. Not a strict copy of Radiant Servant's SLAs, either.

Bearing in mind I'm basing this off of the theme of "Divine wrath made manifest"

First of all, make it so that alignment spell damage is included in all of the enhancements that rely on certain types of spells or boost spellpower and crit. Why? Because alignment spells are an inherent part of any divine class. In fact, there aren't any arcane classes that use them, unless you count the weapon alignment spells that Artificer has. It is ridiculous, then, that Angel of Vengeance doesn't get any bonus from using a special brand of divine magic.

(You might also consider moving alignment damage from spellcraft to heal, for the same reason I just mentioned - no arcane class gets to use it, only divine classes - and it should be boosted by their wisdom, not their intelligence. You already have negative energy being boosted by heal so this isn't far-fetched.)

And with that in mind...

Tier 1 SLA: Deific Vengeance (The divine power of an angry deity imposes a punishment in the form of a sharp, spiritual blow to the target, dealing 1d3+3 points of good damage per 2 caster levels (Maximum damage 5d3+15.), or 1d3+3 points of good damage per caster level (Maximum damage 10d3+30.) if the target is Undead. A successful Will save reduces this damage by half.)

You might be wondering why I'm picking this spell over Nimbus of Light. For one thing, picking Nimbus of Light just makes me feel like I'm copying the light side of Divine Disciple. For another, the way this spell scales makes it not overpowered even in the hands of a level 1 caster, but also keeps it useful for awhile. Besides, it's not like it's unheard of for some spellcasters to get level 2 spells in their level 1 slots.

Tier 2 SLA: Scorch (A jet of roaring flame bursts from your outstretched hand, dealing 1d4+4 fire damage per 2 caster levels (max 5d4+20) to targets in its path. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half. )

If Dark Disciple can borrow from Arcane spellcasters with Chill Touch, then Angel of Vengeance can borrow from Arcane spellcasters with Scorch. This would give Angel of Vengeance a nice boost over Cleric in that it gets an AoE damaging spell very early on, as opposed to later.

Tier 3 SLA: Searing Light (Focuses divine power like a ray of the sun, causing a blast of light to deal 1d4+4 light damage per 2 caster levels (Maximum damage 5d4+20.), or deals 1d3+3 light damage per caster level to Undead. (Maximum damage 10d3+30.))

It goes without saying.

Tier 4 SLA: Holy Smite / Order's Wrath / Chaos Hammer / Unholy Blight

Another AoE spell. Selectable for optimal enjoyment.

Tier 5 SLA: Flamestrike

And to wrap things up, giving it something that it WOULD share in common with Divine Disciple, gaining Flamestrike as an SLA at Tier 5.

Now, I may not have picked the best spells, and I invite the other players to present better options for these levels.

Also, I'm really interested in what the healing tree for FVS would look like. Because right now, Cleric is the only class in the game that has a tree devoted to healing. So please at least give us some information that there's one planned? Same for Druid, honestly.

While I can get behind an enhancement pass for FvS, one thing to take into account is that FvS have an enhancement that gives back spell points when force/fire/light spells critical. If we gave the FvS offensive SLAs, the combination of the two enhancements would be a crazy amount of long-lasting spellpoints for FvS.

Silverleafeon and several of us put together an idea for a third FvS tree (link https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Trees-Project) that included some SLAs. The only thing is, those SLAs were not direct damage spells, and therefore couldn't crit, and couldn't give FvSs the virtually unlimited blue bar.

The other included option is that the enhancements would add spells to the FvS spellbook, instead of SLAs of Scorch, etc. That way, you get the cool extra spells, but you're not getting a better-than-sorc, fully max'd and empowered Scorch with your FvS.

Below is the proposed new tree, from that link above.

Beacon of Hope enhancement tree round 9


Core Abilities


Font Of Hope: For each point spent in this tree you gain +0.75 Universal Spell Power and +0.75 Positive Energy Spell Power (for a total of 1.5 Positive Energy Spell Power per point spent).

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 Requires: Favored Soul Level 1


Beacon Glimmer: Spell Like Ability: Faerie Fire (Activation Cost: 2 Spell Points. Cooldown: 10 seconds.)

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Font of Hope, Favored Soul level 3


Beacon Brightness: Spell Like Ability: Glitterdust (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 20 seconds.) Passive: Adds 10 Positive Spellpower

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Beacon Glimmer, Favored Soul level 6


Summon Healing Archon: Toggle: Spell like ability: A small lantern archon hovers over your other shoulder and heals nearby allies. This archon is indestructible, deals {1d5 + caster level / 2} positive energy healing every 2 seconds, and uses half of your Healing Spell Power and Spell Critical effects for its light healing effects. The archon always heals the ally with the fewest hit points in range that has been damaged. Empower Healing and Enlarge Spell Feats can modify this ability. Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 6 second. (Note: You can only have one Archon active at a time. This Archon and the Offensive Archon will un-summon each other upon casting) Passive: Adds 10 Positive Spellpower

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Beacon Brightness, Favored Soul level 12


Penetrating the Darkness: All Positive Energy Spells and Light Spells Receive the Enlarge Spell Metamagic Effect, without adding additional spell point costs.
Passive: Adds 10 Positive Spellpower

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requires: Summon Healing Archon, Favored Soul level 18


Touch of Hope: You gain +2 Cha, and gain a new Spell-like ability: Panacea: (Activation Cost: 0 spell points. Cooldown: 12 seconds.)
Passive: Add to the list of favored soul spells that you can choose from to learn: Fire Shield as a level 4 spell.

AP Cost: 1 Ranks: Progression: 40 Requires: Penetrating the Darkness, Favored Soul level 20



Tier One abilities

Glow of Hope: When you cast a positive energy spell, you gain 3/6/10 Temporary Hit Points. Tier 3 If you have Epic Levels, Add your Favored Soul Class Levels to this number.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements

Wand Mastery: +25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness of your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DCs of your offensive wands.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements

Angelic Touch: Your Positive Energy damage spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 1 No requirements

Bedside Manner: +1/+2/+3 Diplomacy and Heal.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements

Spell Points: +30/60/90 Spell Points.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 1 No requirements


Tier Two abilities

Ray of Hope: When you critically hit with a positive energy spell, you gain 3/6/10 Sacred temporary spell points.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requirement: Glow of Hope

Least Beacon: Add to the list of favored soul spells that you can choose from to learn: Produce Flame as a level 2 spell.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 No requirements

Angelic Touch: Your Positive Energy damage spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Angelic Touch (Tier 1)

Efficient Empower Healing: Healing spells cast while the Empower Healing Spell feat is activated cost 1/2/4 fewer spell points.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 Requires: Empower Healing Spell

Embracing the Light: you gain 3/6/10% Light Absorption
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 5 No requirements


Tier Three abilities

Purifying Light: you gain 3/6/10% Acid Absorption
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 No requirements

Warming Light: you gain 3/6/10% Cold Absorption
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 10 No requirements

Angelic Touch: Your Positive Energy damage spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Angelic Touch (Tier 2)

Lesser Beacon: Add to the list of favored soul spells that you can choose from to learn: Sun Bolt as a level 3 spell.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Least Beacon

Charisma or Wisdom: Choose one: +1 Wisdom +1 Charisma
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 No requirements


Tier Four abilities

Intense Healing: Your Positive Energy Spells are cast at +1/+2/+3 caster level.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

Incredible Healing: The maximum caster level of your Positive Energy Spells are increased by 1/2/3.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 Requires: Intense Healing

Angelic Touch: Your Positive Energy damage spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Angelic Touch (Tier 3)

Greater Beacon: Add to the list of favored soul spells that you can choose from to learn: Sunbeam as a level 6 spell.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 Requires: Lesser Beacon

Charisma or Wisdom: Choose one: +1 Wisdom +1 Charisma
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 20 No requirements


Tier Five abilities

Awaken Elemental Weakness: Light: You are able to curse an enemy, increasing Light damage they take by 15%. (Activation Cost: 5 Spell Points. Cooldown: 20 seconds.)
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements

Cure Focus: Your Cure Wounds spells have no maximum caster level.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requires: Incredible Healing

Channeling the Light: Whenever you are hit with Light or Fire damage, your next spell is cast with an extra 10/20/30 Fire Spellpower and 10/20/30 Light Spellpower (This can trigger at most once every 6/5/4 seconds, and does not stack if you get hit again before casting a spell)
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 30 No requirements

Supreme Beacon: Add to the list of favored soul spells that you can choose from to learn: Sunburst as a level 8 spell.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 Requires: Greater Beacon

Partial Ascension: You are immune to petrification and blindness.
AP Cost: 2 Ranks: 1 Progression: 30 No requirements

[Braegan]

I agree AoV needs a revamp.

Giving no Slas but giving a means of temp SP procs made it a class useful for low level splashes for other classes that have Slas and/or are Shiradi Spammers.

I like the idea of Scorch. There is so much bonuses to Fire Spells when Divines have what two? And both are only marginally useful.

That and/or bonuses that you can select that would improve archon would be interesting. In and of itself it isn't scaling well. Maybe some way to improve archon damage and add in some effects (stun, crippling, lower fort save, etc) would be a nice way to make FvS unique.

I have less than zero interest in a healing tree. I don't feel like it would add anything of use, perhaps I am wrong and it could be added with some other cool stuff. But, meh.

[Zachski]

I agree AoV needs a revamp.

Giving no Slas but giving a means of temp SP procs made it a class useful for low level splashes for other classes that have Slas and/or are Shiradi Spammers.

I like the idea of Scorch. There is so much bonuses to Fire Spells when Divines have what two? And both are only marginally useful.

That and/or bonuses that you can select that would improve archon would be interesting. In and of itself it isn't scaling well. Maybe some way to improve archon damage and add in some effects (stun, crippling, lower fort save, etc) would be a nice way to make FvS unique.

I have less than zero interest in a healing tree. I don't feel like it would add anything of use, perhaps I am wrong and it could be added with some other cool stuff. But, meh.

Actually, giving the player access to the archon early on would help as well. Just something that would let the class actually progress early on.

As for a healing tree, it's all about options. If you want to heal as an FVS, well, you're gonna suck at it because you have nothing that really gives a good boost to healing except for gear and universal spell power from AoV.

@LuKaSu
As far as the temp spell points go, well, I was thinking the SLAs could replace those temp spell points enhancements. Honestly, I understand kinda what they're supposed to do, but they're a drop in the bucket for a pure FVS running around with Empower and Maximize activated. I agree that alongside SLAs they would probably increase longevity far too much.

That being said, I'm not sure how I feel about a healing tree having SLAs. I guess it actually makes a good counterpart to the Cleric's SP-free healing, actually.

[Braegan]

Actually, giving the player access to the archon early on would help as well. Just something that would let the class actually progress early on.

As for a healing tree, it's all about options. If you want to heal as an FVS, well, you're gonna suck at it because you have nothing that really gives a good boost to healing except for gear and universal spell power from AoV.

As far as healing sucking as a FvS I disagree. I've solo healed raids with most goodies from EDs and the occasional spot heal. And that's what I mean. We are in a state of the game where constant healing isn't needed. And I say this as someone in a solo guild, that pugs all the time. So it's not just I run with uber guild mates that don't need healing. I pug all the time and some folks need it, more than others. But CMM Sla and Divine Wrath pretty much cover any healing a group needs. Anything else is gravy. So to have a whole tree dedicated to it, seems like a waste of AP I would select just to snag 1-2 more points of Wis for a better DC. Like I said maybe they will surprise me, but I don't see a healing tree doing that.

On the Archon, perhaps I was not completely clear about it. I wasn't suggesting moving the cores around to allow for the archon to be available sooner, in fact I am against anything that would make FvS more of a splash class. But hear me out...

Instead of giving FvS slas since the Archon is supposed to be like a "hands free" Sla, give a way to boost it.

Step one: Get rid of Just reward/Scourge all that silliness.

Step two: Introduce a line like the Slas that further develop your Archon:

(As it stands now Archon does: 1d3 + Caster Level Light Damage every 2 seconds and uses half your Light Spell Power and Spell Crit Chance)

Tier One: Archon additionally does 1d3 + Caster Level Fire Damage every 2 seconds and uses half you Fire Spell Power and Spell Crit Chance

Tier Two: Archon now uses 75% of your Light and Fire Spell Power and Spell Crit Chance

Tier Three: Archon now uses 100% of your Light and Fire Spell Power and Spell Crit Chance

Tier Four: (Supernova) Just Brainstorming but a sort of clickable "manyshot" like effect where your Archon goes Supernova and shoots one blast a second per 4 caster levels. 20 Duration, 120 sec cooldown.

While I would like Slas on a FvS perhaps building on Archon would be a better way to go to make it different from the other classes while not taking away from what DD does.