Hirelings are removed from the game

[axel15810]

We'd see the forum filled with rage threads from casual players.

New players that decide to play a non-self healing build wouldn't be able to play the game without help from a real person. That would be really terrible for DDO since it would create a barrier to entry for new players. With zero plat to start they can't afford potions so they would be 100% reliant on other players.

Also casual players who aren't min/maxers and prefer playing lower difficulties for fun with hirelings would rage quit.

DDO needs hirelings. DDO needs money from casual players to keep the lights on and support this game that us vets love so much.

[redoubt]

well...
[*]Larafay Do'rret pops a Jartina Sartosa & solo's EE in other games looking for work.
[/LIST]

Nicely done. Though I think Tanya and Barrage would level up and start a group with Tarlov. They might even let Andaro come along.

On a serious side, hires were brought in back when people were complaining that they could never find healers. The situation is no different today. Actual healers are still difficult to find (I'm talking the LFM, not guild or channel.) Same could be said for trappers. I know that I mostly use healer or rogue type hires for that reason alone. That said, most of my characters self heal anyway, so even the healer hire is just a convenience. My static duo group often runs with hires like Tanya and Barrage because they heal themselves and actually kill stuff.

What would happen if they were removed? I'm not sure much besides complaining would really take place. The champion system increased difficulty a little, but it has not resulted in additional LFMs (from what I can tell), nor has it resulted in a resurgence of healers. In EE quests the hires are not really useful so I don't see much change without them for the EE crowd. Maybe the EH and EN crowd might play with healers a bit more, I don't know.

To illustrate how odd the behavior with hires has become, I ran a group today and had a "battle cleric" join. (His bio actually said "battle cleric" and that he was heals and dps all in one.) He popped a cleric hire on me without asking (not that I really cared as no one else tried to join, just funny.) We had a newbie with us who liked being a soul stone. The newbie, the hire and the battle cleric accounted for all our deaths as we did the level 11 tomb series. But don't just look to this one person. I see all sorts of clerics and favored souls who never heal themselves (which I don't really understand.)

All that said, my personal preference would be to see the game move back to a situation where we grouped more often and worked as a team. This would likely require more deadly traps and more deadly monsters (not stupid HP bags nor one shot killers, but mobs that can be agro managed/tanked but are deadly enough to need a healer for the tank.) I know most people don't want this anymore and I won't try to force it on them; I just found it more fun than the current grouping method which is 6 solo'rs zerging in the same instance. I also realize that the game might not survive a transition back to such a setup; the time required for people to adjust and once again (because we used to) have alts who are trappers, CC'rs and healers, thus filling the LFMs. But hey, one can dream right?

[General_Gronker]

I think there would actually be more cool people to group with.

You have no basis for that thought though.

Maybe the socially shy would come out of the solo zone.

Or they'd go find a game that doesn't try to force them to group up, like Neverwinter or something.

Personally, I'd play less. I'd certainly stop paying for anything. I tend to play when the servers are on the quiet side, and with 22 characters, there's a good chance I want to play in a level range that isn't drawing much grouping at the time.

[janave]

Certain Race/Class combinations would become much harder to solo* with.
I am in favor of more options and not less, thinking that hirelings stop players grouping is a very faulty idea, even a few OP builds will have a bigger impact on people rather going solo.

Waiting is a huge part of why people dont group, i noticed a relatively funny thing with raids. If it fill slowly people are reluctant to join, until x spots filled, in the meanwhile people who are in the group slowly leaving cus they tired of waiting. So, what we have a group having difficulty filling up due people losing patience


Raids that are mostly pikefests, VoN5 are almost always start filling after 4-5 people are inside, doing the quest for 10-15minutes.This is very easy to see after a few months, this is a pattern now.

Solution? Build better coop experiences, pulling levers is not one of these. Or just make content soloable with optionals that need cooperation.

Hopefully the new Dev team plays DDO, so they know exactly what i am talking about

[Ancient]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

I'd want a refund for my panther, 2 bears and the wee lil halfling.

[Deadlock]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

They would add Rogue hirelings contracts that can actually do traps to the plat vendors since you're no longer able to hire them.

[Powskier]

turbine would sell no hires then in store...not good for them; the 7th lvl thief is on bestseller list often and many newbs use goldseals too;the bards/palis are cheap and effective.

[Eth]

If hirelings were removed from the game, I probably wouldn't even notice it.

[Powskier]

Certain Race/Class combinations would become much harder to solo* with.
I am in favor of more options and not less, thinking that hirelings stop players grouping is a very faulty idea, even a few OP builds will have a bigger impact on people rather going solo.

Waiting is a huge part of why people dont group, i noticed a relatively funny thing with raids. If it fill slowly people are reluctant to join, until x spots filled, in the meanwhile people who are in the group slowly leaving cus they tired of waiting. So, what we have a group having difficulty filling up due people losing patience


Raids that are mostly pikefests, VoN5 are almost always start filling after 4-5 people are inside, doing the quest for 10-15minutes.This is very easy to see after a few months, this is a pattern now.

Solution? Build better coop experiences, pulling levers is not one of these. Or just make content soloable with optionals that need cooperation.

Hopefully the new Dev team plays DDO, so they know exactly what i am talking about

that could be its own thread^..go 4 it players are way passionate about von5 ,get popcorn 1st!.... I hate von5,it is silly smash and grab for xps and loot with a deceiving map to f w newbs...maybe if i could move in lava rooms Id feel different;one of few places in the game I lag horribly even in min settings. A hundred K or two is great,but thats all that is great there-besides the entry to von6.

[dunklezhan]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

Honestly? Lots of people would leave. A hire is a very useful thing to have when you're in a group which is not full of self sufficient characters, precisely because so few people play healers. 'Call and park just in case' is a fairly standard procedure in our small guild, if only to try to wipe-recover without re-entry penalties. They are not just used to solo.

[cdbd3rd]

...

DDO needs hirelings. DDO needs money from casual players to keep the lights on and support this game that us vets love so much.

Hmm. Just remember that "casual" and "vet" are not always mutually exclusive terms.


Sometimes I would miss my inept AI friends. Some times...

[Brendael]

Ever since the developers "fixed" hireling AI two or so updates ago I hardly ever see them in Pugs any more. Make of that what you will.

[Chilldude]

people would learn to be better at the game sure lots of people would quit turbine would lose money and insane amounts of rage on the forums meaning this will probably never happen (turbine losing money is a big no i believe) but in time the game would be better for all who remained

You're not the only one saying some version of this, but I picked you because you said the most wrong things.

Not having a hireling doesn't, in and of itself, make you better at the game. If you are already a good player that understands the fundamentals of building a powerful character, should you one day decide to leave Jatrina behind, you'll certainly be better off for it. Yet, having a hireling doesn't innately make you a bad player either. In fact, it takes a pretty skillful player to utilize a hireling effectively, and any content you are able to complete with a hireling would be an absolute breeze with a real healer.

Oh yes, I said real healer, and I'm well aware that so few players play a healer that they are rumored to have never existed at all. They did. Epic destinies have certainly allowed pretty much anyone to self heal, in any destiny, with a simple tier 1 twist of Rejuvenation Cocoon, but that does not change the fact that the divine classes have at their disposal a war chest of healing abilities capable of healing entire raids. Nor does it change the fact that self-healing does NOT require superior game play. DDO is simple enough that it allows for self healing, yet being able to stop what you are doing every few seconds to press a healing button doesn't make you a pinball wizard.

The most powerful team you can assemble in DDO is still a well balanced team with tanks, healers, and dps. It's simple mathematics. Tanks can mitigate more damage than any other character, and are therefore, by an order of magnitude, more efficient at taking damage. By the same token, healers can restore hit points faster and more efficiently than any other character in DDO. Finally, although you can build self sufficiency into your DPS character without much sacrifice, there's still a sacrifice, and the less you invest in self healing the less effective yours will be.

Hirelings are not, nor have they ever been the problem. The problem is that the game was designed around a balanced party system that hasn't existed since the inception of epic levels and destiny abilities. So you are left with classes like barbarian, that in heroic levels are incredibly difficult to be self sufficient with. I've seen it all. I've seen barbarians in heroics wade waste deep in mobs and come out swinging, while being entirely responsible for keeping their red bar up. I've seen barbarians step in a quest, pop a hire, hit sprint boost, and proceed to shred the entire dungeon under their might. Like everyone else, I've seen barbarians die a million deaths from ineffectively gulping cure serious pots to hireling brain farts, and everything in between. To see a good player play great with a hireling is a rare and splendor thing, but it happens.

[Fedora1]

I see a lot of comments poking fun at "casuals and solos would rage". Well it might be fine right now to make fun of solos and casuals, but when some of them leave the game because they need hires (to support melees, pull levers, or whatever) that means less revenue for Turbine. So you'd just be shooting yourselves in the foot by alienating a somewhat significant portion of the community that supports DDO.

Discalimer - I can take 'em or leave 'em. I like having the option though.

[Chai]

Hireling is a convenience mechanism, not a must have. I don't see much forced grouping or even preferred grouping changes coming from eliminating them.

[porkchorp]

Hirelings are not, nor have they ever been the problem. The problem is that the game was designed around a balanced party system that hasn't existed since the inception of epic levels and destiny abilities. So you are left with classes like barbarian, that in heroic levels are incredibly difficult to be self sufficient with. I've seen it all. I've seen barbarians in heroics wade waste deep in mobs and come out swinging, while being entirely responsible for keeping their red bar up. I've seen barbarians step in a quest, pop a hire, hit sprint boost, and proceed to shred the entire dungeon under their might. Like everyone else, I've seen barbarians die a million deaths from ineffectively gulping cure serious pots to hireling brain farts, and everything in between. To see a good player play great with a hireling is a rare and splendor thing, but it happens.

Interesting POV on the 'problem of hirelings' I personally have not played epics, i do see how this could have had a hand in this.

[porkchorp]

I wonder of the people that keep saying 'turbine would loose money, players would leave'

Is this a true opinion, or a 'hope that turbine sees this post and it scares them not to change the game' kind of thing?


Turbine could monetize the **** out of this, they could double the store price for gold seal healing hires. Not to mention the possible increase of 'questing supplies' store sales. Yeah?

[DDOisFree]

There would be more LFMs looking for a healer on EN quests to laugh at.

[Sam1313]

Wait. If the Hirelings are removed from the game how am I supposed to solo Tomb of the Burning Heart?
I solo 98% of the time because I have to go afk a lot due to real life. The wife wants to say something, the kids are trying to put each other in the dryer on fluff cycle, The dog is shredding toilet paper through the house. And that's not to mention the limited time I have to play due to work, home repairs, auto repairs. I am the guy who uses the hires to stand on the pressure plates or to pull levers. I don't have the time to sit and wait for a party to fill, And if it did fill then it would not be kind of me to have to tell them every 15 minutes "Hey I must go afk for 10 minutes" So I use hires because they will wait for me to get back from having to go do whatever and not be angry at me because Hey I'm paying them too lol

[DDOisFree]

But Larrafay is awesome ... This one time on my fighter she was leading the kills ...

Wait, I should be ashamed of that.

I say get rid of hirelings and let use our alts as hirelings instead, like the heroes system in GW1.