Producer's Letter

[slarden]

thank you.

This hits the nail on the head.

Challenge alone isn't sufficient incentive to carry content further than a week. Once we've mastered it to our satisfaction, nothing else keeps us coming back - might as well inactivate our account until the next update. If we had some long-term goal in acquiring something out of it - then the difficulty is a nice supplement to the loot incentive, just so it takes a while.

Getting all your stuff on normal cheapens the experience, and it's giving out medical degrees to high school students. No risk, sweat, and effort = no best in-game rewards.

It is necessary - but it isn't sufficient.

Challenge + carrot is what we need. Period.

And currently elite has 4x the reward for ingredients vs normal and 4x or higher drop chance. In the case of mythics it's 10x higher drop rates compared to EH. I suspect the same for jibber's blade because I've never seen it drop below EE.

Elite already is a much higher reward and that doesn't even count bravery bonus, saga rewards and favor which also are much better rewards on elite.

Even if Turbine increases the elite rewards it won't be enough - people will always be whining for moar moar moar. Other games have very diminishing returns for the most difficult content for good reason - to keep people focused on the hunt and not whining for moar and better stuff because they are done. Turbine needs to add more things like jibbers blade but make them even harder to get like eross. They should never add a really rare unbalanced item like esos again that was so overpowered when the level cap was 20 that it trivialized boss fights.

Why do you keep comparing medical school to ddo lol. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[legendkilleroll]

And currently elite has 4x the reward for ingredients vs normal and 4x or higher drop chance. In the case of mythics it's 10x higher drop rates compared to EH. I suspect the same for jibber's blade because I've never seen it drop below EE.

My 3 main guys all have one now, never really farmed it, just either as daily for xp or with saga

Pulled it 4 times, one had to stay in chest tho lol, 2 EH and 2 EN

[JOTMON]

And currently elite has 4x the reward for ingredients vs normal and 4x or higher drop chance. In the case of mythics it's 10x higher drop rates compared to EH. I suspect the same for jibber's blade because I've never seen it drop below EE.

Elite already is a much higher reward and that doesn't even count bravery bonus, saga rewards and favor which also are much better rewards on elite.

Even if Turbine increases the elite rewards it won't be enough - people will always be whining for moar moar moar. Other games have very diminishing returns for the most difficult content for good reason - to keep people focused on the hunt and not whining for moar and better stuff because they are done. Turbine needs to add more things like jibbers blade but make them even harder to get like eross. They should never add a really rare unbalanced item like esos again that was so overpowered when the level cap was 20 that it trivialized boss fights.

Why do you keep comparing medical school to ddo lol. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Are these real increases as stated by Dev' or just some made up number? and what is 10x higher compared to EH.. how much did Hard increase from Normal.. what are the actual %'s for named items..

Endgame raids have no use for bravery bonus(players should be in their best destiny) , there are no saga's for raids, favor is 1x,

With better stuff comes more newer difficult quests.. its a continuous uphill challenge

I know right, who would think a Medical Degree could be given to anyone.. Everyone knows you have to successfully complete all the educational challenges to get that reward..

[Monkey-Boy]

Are these real increases as stated by Dev' or just some made up number? and what is 10x higher compared to EH.. how much did Hard increase from Normal.. what are the actual %'s for named items..

What raid, MOD?

EE MOD's drop-rates are fine.

[slarden]

Are these real increases as stated by Dev' or just some made up number? and what is 10x higher compared to EH.. how much did Hard increase from Normal.. what are the actual %'s for named items..

Endgame raids have no use for bravery bonus(players should be in their best destiny) , there are no saga's for raids, favor is 1x,

The devs stated multiple times that mythic drops are 10x higher on EE vs. EH. They even countered non-sensical arguments that it dropped more on lower difficulties in one thread and arguments the drop rate wasn't working as advertised. As they pointed out, if people are running 20x more on EH they will get it more on EH because of the volume, but EE drops are 10x higher than EH.

On EN MOD I rarely ever see a named item. I see one drop for someone almost every raid on EH. And alot more taps drop as well - there is no reason to run on EN instead of EH unless the party can't handle it - which is why people run on EN - they either know the party can't handle EH or they aren't sure.

People are acting like elite isn't rewarded when it is already highly rewarded. The devs would have #s on saga usage, but I think it's used alot based on what I see. If I compare the rewards to the other games I am familiar with - DDO rewards high difficulty content much more than other games. Turbine responded to the non-stop whining for better elite rewards by adding mythics which drop 10x more on EE vs. EH and as I predicted the whining continued and would continue no matter what Turbine does. Some people want moar moar moar and are chronically discontent no matter what Turbine does.

[slarden]

What raid, MOD?

EE MOD's drop-rates are fine.

Anyone that thinks MOD doesn't reward higher difficulties isn't even running the higher difficulties. The drop rates are much better.

[zwiebelring]

Nonsense because you find EE challenging or nonsense that failing a quest is rare overall in the game? Come to Khyber and I'll show in pugs how easy it is.

Nonsense at your out of the hat percentage on failing in ee quests.

thank you.

This hits the nail on the head.

Challenge alone isn't sufficient incentive to carry content further than a week. Once we've mastered it to our satisfaction, nothing else keeps us coming back - might as well inactivate our account until the next update. If we had some long-term goal in acquiring something out of it - then the difficulty is a nice supplement to the loot incentive, just so it takes a while.

Getting all your stuff on normal cheapens the experience, and it's giving out medical degrees to high school students. No risk, sweat, and effort = no best in-game rewards.

It is necessary - but it isn't sufficient.

Challenge + carrot is what we need. Period.

Current claims of *too easy* read as more work/challenge for the same carrot. We don't need that. Period.

[Qhualor]

Nonsense at your out of the hat percentage on failing in ee quests.

in my experience in pugs, static and solo I have failed less than 5 times in the past 3 years that wasn't the result of Lag Monster. Its rare for me to hear of anyone legitimately failing a quest unless its posted on the forums. I can see less than optimal builds or someone soloing quests when they don't typically solo or the fallback argument of EE MOD, but generally failing a quest is almost unheard of. if you find yourself failing a lot of quests, have you looked into reasons like its too much of a challenge for you and should drop down a difficulty or maybe some improvements to your build or trying to zerg all the time being reckless or something?

[Cetus]

And currently elite has 4x the reward for ingredients vs normal and 4x or higher drop chance. In the case of mythics it's 10x higher drop rates compared to EH. I suspect the same for jibber's blade because I've never seen it drop below EE.

Elite already is a much higher reward and that doesn't even count bravery bonus, saga rewards and favor which also are much better rewards on elite.

Even if Turbine increases the elite rewards it won't be enough - people will always be whining for moar moar moar. Other games have very diminishing returns for the most difficult content for good reason - to keep people focused on the hunt and not whining for moar and better stuff because they are done. Turbine needs to add more things like jibbers blade but make them even harder to get like eross. They should never add a really rare unbalanced item like esos again that was so overpowered when the level cap was 20 that it trivialized boss fights.

Why do you keep comparing medical school to ddo lol. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I'm not comparing ddo to medical school. That would be ridiculous.

Pay attention to the actual comparison.

[nibel]

I still don't understand what people didn't like about norm/hard/elite loot.

Mostly, I don't like the way they scaled in power AND minimum level. IMO, I would keep the tiers, but the base item power would be unchanged between tiers. The relative change would be on ML and bound status.

Normal-tier gear would be ML X, and be totally unbound. Those are also the ones you get on chain reward lists. Better gear than that could only be found by actually pulling them form chests.

Hard-tier gear would be ML-1 (or ML-2 for heroic), and Bound to Character on Equip. You can sell those either before wearing them, or on the ASAH.

Elite-tier gear would be ML-2 (or ML-4 for heroic), and Bound to Account. You, as a player, should pull this one yourself (or be in a party someone hands it to you in chest). You can't just buy it, and it would be both a symbol for bragging rights, and useful while TRing.

[Faltout]

Mostly, I don't like the way they scaled in power AND minimum level. IMO, I would keep the tiers, but the base item power would be unchanged between tiers. The relative change would be on ML and bound status.

Normal-tier gear would be ML X, and be totally unbound. Those are also the ones you get on chain reward lists. Better gear than that could only be found by actually pulling them form chests.

Hard-tier gear would be ML-1 (or ML-2 for heroic), and Bound to Character on Equip. You can sell those either before wearing them, or on the ASAH.

Elite-tier gear would be ML-2 (or ML-4 for heroic), and Bound to Account. You, as a player, should pull this one yourself (or be in a party someone hands it to you in chest). You can't just buy it, and it would be both a symbol for bragging rights, and useful while TRing.

But players requesting tiered gear the most (like Cetus above) want them to have more than just bragging rights. And you made the 3 items the same, the only difference being when you TR. So you made the elite item unique for 2 or 4 levels.

[nibel]

But players requesting tiered gear the most (like Cetus above) want them to have more than just bragging rights. And you made the 3 items the same, the only difference being when you TR. So you made the elite item unique for 2 or 4 levels.

Yup, I know. But that is the only way to make the tiered loot somewhat desirable without making it a requirement to run always on elite. It would not help people just running normal to "get the gear", but the lowered ML on elite gear have some utility, even if niche. While on current tiered loot, having +108 spellpower instead of +120 is a real drawback. Specially on non-cap gear (level 26 or under).

Gianthold loot, with their major differences being on slot color, is a step ahead from FR tiered loot, but I believe we can make the full stride and make it good for everyone.

[JOTMON]

What I've seen in MOD above EN is many people just can't handle it. Even the most accomplished players on Sarlona were dying repeatedly in EE.
MOD is no different than other raids - people run it on EN because alot of people can't handle EH+.

This is how the current EE content should be.
Most people should fail. until they adapt, upgrade, adjust, and figure out the nuances until they succeed.

I was running the MOD Elite on my cleric without the Epic Glimpse of the Soul.. and it was painful.. I was unable to be as effective as the party needed me to be.
Encasements were an issue, recognizing the tells for the killing fog... respawning trash with scaling damage...
Once we figured out the changes that needed to be made we made them.
I farmed the inferno until I got my goggles, changed to Divine Crusader Destiny, made other changes..
Group discussed changes in tactics, gearing, etc... went back in and were successful.. each run after got a bit cleaner and more reliable..

Its the same process for Normal runs, once you get them down and have the mechanics worked out each successive run becomes a bit easier.. with this you can then tackle the next level of difficulty.
If you already have everything that Normal has to offer its the tease of improved reward from Hard/Elite keeps you engaged until you knock those out.
Then you grind out Elites to get the best of the best versions of goodies..

At this point new content should be drawing away those that have beat the current content at all difficulties beyond usefulness.

FOT was tiered loot and EN was the standard until an exploit was found that made EE completions easy. After the exploit was fixed EN was the normal mode for a long time until the level cap was increased. Running on EE saved 12 runs to upgrade so the benefit was enormous and still EN was the most commonly run difficulty when it was new (not counting exploit runs).

Never even heard about an exploit for this one, not that it matters, I have no interest in those types of cheese completions.

I still laugh when shroud broke and Aritrikos used to just stand there while people beat him down.. pugs were running higher difficulties talking about how easy shroud was...
and the uproar from these players when they fixed him and people were getting their asses handed to them and no longer able to complete at the higher difficulties.. not realizing that that was how it was supposed to be.

[SisAmethyst]

I run with a mix of players from some of the absolute best players on Sarlona to some very casual folks. With some of the top players I zerged EE from 20 to 28 every 3 days for about 6 months straight when the ETR system came out until we got burned out on it and slowed down and started doing other things as well.

I run on multiple difficulties at different times based mostly on what the people I run with want to run. I have guildies that don't like to run EE and I have friends that only run EE. I run with both.

I don't like the non-upgradable tiered loot because I know if I run with my more casual friends on EH I have no chance to get the items I am looking for so I feel like I am losing progress. This is a social game first and I think the tiered loot is bad for the social aspect of the game because it creates a divide.

The original shroud didn't over-reward elite and yet everyone seemed to run together and enjoy it. People would run elite for the challenge and favor and then run normal or hard other times. That is kind of how I like to run - different difficulties depending on who I am running with. I don't like disallowing people in a party because I know we will have to carry them. I prefer "all welcome" parties.

I do not envy you or most of the people on the forums that consider themselves elite, but I don't like a system that segregates our population because running anything but EE means you have no chance to get those items running EH. So when my friends that prefer EH ask me to run a quest I make no progress at all towards getting the items I need. I think tiered loot is bad for the social aspect of the game.

I like the mythic concept because it gives an incentive to run elite, but doesn't over-reward it. Also, when I flash my mythic helm it's clear it's something I earned and not something I bought from the ASAH. It means alot to people when they earn their own loot and it's the only way to get the loot is by earning it.

Well, that is why I actually like the new Thunderforged items, because you can upgrade them and it is just a lot faster and easier if you run Elite. The same holds true for Shroud, you could upgrade it by running normal, it just takes time and the drop rates increased with Elite.
Actually the most players never ever had run Shroud on a higher difficulty then normal ever, this only changed with introducing epic levels. We don't have to forget that not everybody in this game is in a 100+ level guild playing 24/7 but that a big majority even not have the desire to run a quest on a harder difficulty then normal.

So while I liked upgrade system that reward the incentive to run higher difficulty systems this got totally out of hand with this lottery system of shards, scrolls and seal so it was changed to a system that drops pre-made items based on difficulty and there I indeed agree with you that it is a shame that you can't upgrade it to a higher tier. What if all items drop with their respective tier level in the dedicated difficulty but you would also had the chance to use for example the champion tokens to upgrade it?

As champions only come into play at hard or elite you would need to play it on higher difficulties and as they are already in game and they are generic and in higher quantity available in higher difficulties. Not to mention that would actually give those tokens a real reason to farm. So you either get lucky and directly pull a EE item from an EE chest, or you got the EN item in an EN run and have to go the long road to upgrade it via tokens.

[SisAmethyst]

This has already been demonstrated in the game.
MOD runs.. normal... very few players have run beyond normal.. rinse/repeat 20's get loot.. done.
Epic Orchard quests.. ECasual speed farm LFM's for end reward list and chance of Mythics until ransack. bring whatever..

...

Nothing entirely wrong with that it is run mostly on normal, after all at least it get run compared to some other content. That rinse/repeat 20 and be done is all that is needed would be more a balancing issue by adjusting drop rates. However while loot should be an incentive to run content and higher tier loot should be one to run higher difficulty, the content should be mainly run because it is actually fun to run it. Look at Shroud and VON which are fun to do. While you could get impressive items from VON I guess most casual players never even bothered to even hope for an ESOS so they didn't run it for that matter, but because it is a blast of experience.

Loot is one thing, but if your content is just dull, straight and boring I indeed will if at all run a quest only as much as I needed to get the items out of it. If you want a quest to be run beyond that ensure that I will have a great experience in doing so, but not only through loot.

[JOTMON]

Nothing entirely wrong with that it is run mostly on normal, after all at least it get run compared to some other content. That rinse/repeat 20 and be done is all that is needed would be more a balancing issue by adjusting drop rates. However while loot should be an incentive to run content and higher tier loot should be one to run higher difficulty, the content should be mainly run because it is actually fun to run it. Look at Shroud and VON which are fun to do. While you could get impressive items from VON I guess most casual players never even bothered to even hope for an ESOS so they didn't run it for that matter, but because it is a blast of experience.

Loot is one thing, but if your content is just dull, straight and boring I indeed will if at all run a quest only as much as I needed to get the items out of it. If you want a quest to be run beyond that ensure that I will have a great experience in doing so, but not only through loot.

Shroud is tiered within itself. each phase offers scaling benefit.
Succeed pat 1 now you can craft your T1 weapons and get that a better wepon, first tier of hp/sp..
Succeed part 3 now yo ucan get your t@ crafting and goodies. can even sell/repair to embrace part 4/5

When shroud was at level, it was quite challenging even on normal not many runs were successful through all phases.
Eventually players adapted, tiered up their weapons and runs got cleaner..
When it was endgame Eh/EE runs were quite challenging, very few groups managed to get them done successfully.

Once level 20 came around it was still challenging.. but most groups were successful on EN, and were willing to try harder difficulties.

Now its embarrassing seeing LFM's for levels 14-28 with low level 14 toons being carried through by endgame capped toons.
These low level toons are not being challengd to prove themselves to advance.. they are being loaded up with great gear in what should have been the stepping stone challenge.
I think something needs to be done here to stop this sort of "Power Levelling/gearing" of inexperienced lowbies..
Something like nerfing over level players playing lower level content.. 50% Damage/Spell power when a capped toon is running with lowbies in shroud for instance...
This might even be enough to add back challenge to over level toons running lower level content.. a scaling power nerf based on how many levels the highest player is compared to the lowest level player.

[hulkfan5511]

New class ! Best news for this year.

nah the mabar news is tha best

[Faltout]

nah the mabar news is tha best

But there isn't any mabar news A vague statement that they are considering an event along the lines of Mabar is far from "We are bringing Mabar back with no lag issues".
For all you know, they could actually go with a fashion contest event with halloween costumes and consider this the "seasonal" replacement of Mabar.

The news is "We acknowledge that Mabar was wanted by more people than those that wanted it shut down". Now why they think it was popular is still vague. Cordovan says it was popular because it was a halloween event so any kind of halloween event will be as popular. But Mabar was popular because of its mechanics.

[Steelstar]

But there isn't any mabar news A vague statement that they are considering an event along the lines of Mabar is far from "We are bringing Mabar back with no lag issues".

The news is "We acknowledge that Mabar was wanted by more people than those that wanted it shut down".

Correct.

[SophiaH]

But there isn't any mabar news A vague statement that they are considering an event along the lines of Mabar is far from "We are bringing Mabar back with no lag issues".
For all you know, they could actually go with a fashion contest event with halloween costumes and consider this the "seasonal" replacement of Mabar.

The news is "We acknowledge that Mabar was wanted by more people than those that wanted it shut down". Now why they think it was popular is still vague. Cordovan says it was popular because it was a halloween event so any kind of halloween event will be as popular. But Mabar was popular because of its mechanics.

I liked Mabar for the awesome fun and the totally cool stuff we could make.