Request: Bear Tank build

[kaisoul]

Ok this request has a few insanities i want to add

race: PDK
1 fighter fixed iconic level to poor for hearts
2 rogue trap disabling
17 druid Bear Tank

Would like to use a shield as a bear if the PRR/MRR work from wearing a shield & from the shield feats Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery.
Wonder if Shield Deflection would work while in animal form.

If any one could help me plan out this build as a first life with no real access to tomes that would be very much helpful.

[Wh070aa]

2 problems.

Can't use metal armor/shield.
Bear form animations are worst in the game.
But yea, if someone can make this work, please post, I couldn't

[Holybird]

Ok this request has a few insanities i want to add

race: PDK
1 fighter fixed iconic level to poor for hearts
2 rogue trap disabling
17 druid Bear Tank

Would like to use a shield as a bear if the PRR/MRR work from wearing a shield & from the shield feats Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery.
Wonder if Shield Deflection would work while in animal form.

If any one could help me plan out this build as a first life with no real access to tomes that would be very much helpful.

If you want to tank you will want 3 levels of Fighter for Stalwart Defence. Get Dragon Scale Armor. http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Wall_of_Wood is good shield to start with. Get Cleaves and use em as much as possible. Consult Unbongwah for proper build but I think these are at least the things you would like to have.

Edit: The two first of shield feats you listed will work. Not sure about Deflection tho, but it needs to be actively blocking so I think you want to skip that altogether.

[Lonnbeimnech]

The attack speed of bear form is so slow that, it just sucks. You might have better luck building this as a caster/tank sitting in an icestorm dotting things with greater creeping cold and turtleing up to proc some sp.

Big problem you will have is you wont be tanking much til level 14 or so when you can put on some dragon scale heavy armor.

[kaisoul]

ok good points now my main problem is not knowing what feats work and what feats don't work in animal form

[unbongwah]

Consult Unbongwah for proper build but I think these are at least the things you would like to have.

WARNING: crazy, probably gimp theorycrafting ahead.

The trick to any bear build is getting around their abysmally slow atk speed. You really only have two options: stay pure for NW capstone (+15% atk speed); or invest in Cleaves, which aren't affected by your atk speed. This build is an example of the latter.

Class split: druid 13 / ftr 4 / barb 3
Feats: Power Atk / Cleave / GC; IC:Blunt; Shield Mastery & ISM; Emp Heal & Quicken; NF x3; Overwhelming Crit
APs: 33-40 APs into NW (Alpha Strike & Natural Adept at a minimum); 13 APs into Stalwart D. for defensive stance and +20% HPs (or +6 STR); 13 APs into FB for Die Harder, extra action boost, and Supreme Cleave; up to 7 APs into Kensei for extra action boost; 6 APs into human for Dmg Boost, +10% heal amp, Don't Count Me Out; 4 APs into Ravager for +3 Power Atk (or put them into SH for Beguile).

Druid 13 gets you two lvl 7 spell slots (Regenerate and Relentless Onslaught); ftr 4 is for the feats, heavy armor prof, and defensive stance; barb 3 is not for Rage (which doesn't work in defensive stance), but for the listed enhancements. [Die Harder and Don't Count Me Out stack, so your range of unconsciousness extends to -45 HPs.] So this build will have 4 Cleave atks: Cleave, Gt Cleave, Supreme Cleave, and Alpha Strike.

EDIT: Dodge is to unlock Four Legs Good; the idea is to use Fatal Harrier (or Reaving Roar) while fighting mobs, then switch to 4LG for tanking bosses, most of whom have knockdown effects.

Eldritch Bear alternative: take a wiz 3 splash instead of barb; invest 14 APs into Eldritch Knight for +10% AC, +10 PRR, +3% doublestrike, Spellsword, and most of all Arcane Barrier; trades Supreme Cleave for EK Cleave.

Doublestrike bonuses:
18% Natural Fighting x3
15% Legendary Shield Mastery
5% PTWF
3% Draconic Ferocity or Shadow Striker
3% Hail of Blows (GmoF Twist)
44% base doublestrike total

Apart from named options, the only time your weapon choices will really matter is when you're in Legendary Dreadnought. If LD if your final ED goal, I would go with axes (Anvil of Thunder and Headman's Chop); or maces & clubs - yes, clubs, for Lightning Mace.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 26 True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight Female
(4 Fighter \ 3 Barbarian \ 13 Druid \ 6 Epic) 
Hit Points: 396
Spell Points: 690 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 7
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 26)
Strength             18                    26
Dexterity            11                    13
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         11                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 2 (Druid)


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 4 (Druid)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Druid)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 8 (Druid)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 10 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear


Level 11 (Druid)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 13 (Druid)


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 16 (Druid)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf


Level 17 (Druid)


Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Don't Count Me Out (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Don't Count Me Out (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Don't Count Me Out (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Nature's Warrior (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Instinctive Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Instinctive Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Instinctive Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Aggravate (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Aggravate (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Flight (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Flight (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Flight (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Vengeful Hunter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Vengeful Hunter (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Vengeful Hunter (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Action Boost: Double Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Action Boost: Double Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Action Boost: Double Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fight (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fight (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fight (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Improved Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Improved Dodge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Improved Dodge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fatal Harrier (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fatal Harrier (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fatal Harrier (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Essence of the Turtle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Essence of the Turtle (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Four Legs Good (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Alpha Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Alpha Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Alpha Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Celerity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Celerity (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Celerity (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Natural Adept (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Hard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Cracking Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Harder (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Harder (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Harder (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Body Blow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Furious Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Druidic Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting

Honestly, the sensible thing here would be to make a few tweaks to become a wolf DPS-tank rather than a bear. But let it not be said I don't help enable my fellow DDOites' poor flavor choices!

EDIT: I chose not to exploit the TWF bugs and added Natural Fighting instead; partly to "future-proof" the build against the day when Turbine finally fixes TWF and partly because doublestrike bonuses apply to Alpha Strikes, but offhand atks don't (AFAIK).

[kaisoul]

hmm ok this information help me to understand alot of questions i had for the bear build.

unbongwah
hmm what did you have in mind as a wolf dps/tank variant?

[unbongwah]

nga
hmm what did you have in mind as a wolf dps/tank variant?

1. Swap Essence of the Turtle for Shrike.
2. Click "winter wolf" button instead of "dire bear."

And just like that, you'll see a big boost to melee DPS, thanks to higher atk speed, double crit range, and some SAs from wolf form; you'll also see a steady stream of temp SPs from EotS to power Alpha Strikes, heals, etc. Pretty much all you lose is the extra PRR from bear form and a couple of bear atks, Relentless Onslaught being the only one I would miss.

If anything, since the enhancements would be almost identical, I'd say use wolf form+Fatal Harrier to mow thru trash mobs; and save bear form+4 Legs Good for "serious" tanking.

[kaisoul]

hmmm interesting i think i'll be rolling this character up tonight and try to farm the dragons scales ^_^ thanks again every one for helping me with this insane request.

[Tilomere]

WARNING: crazy, probably gimp theorycrafting ahead. Honestly, the sensible thing here would be to make a few tweaks to become a wolf DPS-tank rather than a bear. But let it not be said I don't help enable my fellow DDOites' poor flavor choices!

Decided to add WW to build:

13 Druid 4 Fighter 3 Barb has 12 Feats by level 21

1 TWF
2 PA (requires str 13)
3 Cleave
4 GC
5 GTWF
6 ITWF
7 Dodge
8 Mobility (requires dex 13)
9 Spring Attack
10 Combat Expertise (requires int 13)
11 WW
12 Quicken

Use an impact 1H blunt weapon and pick up IC:B at 24 or 27, and Improved Shield Bash at the other one. A first life build won't be able to make use of legendary shield mastery twist anyways.

A good impact 1H is the level 8 jeweled hammer. A better one is a 2H maul, see next post. You can also craft or AH one or have someone craft an impact/bloodletting or something, and use Wall of Wood offhand for devotion spell power.

I like Unbongwah's enhancements:

APs: 33-40 APs into NW (Alpha Strike & Natural Adept at a minimum); 13 APs into Stalwart D. for defensive stance and +20% HPs (or +6 STR); 13 APs into FB for Die Harder, extra action boost, and Supreme Cleave; up to 7 APs into Kensei for extra action boost; 6 APs into human for Dmg Boost, +10% heal amp, Don't Count Me Out; 4 APs into Ravager for +3 Power Atk (or put them into SH for Beguile).

This has 5 cleaves! This uses TWF, because while it is bugged, it is a bug Turbine decided to leave in to monitor how it works and is used.

[unbongwah]

1 TWF
6 ITWF

Since you listed the other feat pre-reqs: you forgot to mention that TWF req's base DEX 15 while ITWF & GTWF (which you don't take - oversight or not enough feats?) req base DEX 17.

Even for this build, I still don't consider Whirlwind Atk worth the 5-feat cost; so even though I take Dodge, I'd rather use the extra feats to squeeze in some combo of Natural Fighting, Shield Mastery, and/or TWF.

Use an impact 1H blunt weapon

Are you sure this carries over? I thought keen / impact only granted Improved Crit feat for the weapon type to which it is applied, rather than the full range of Imp Crit feat. So someone who equips Jeweled Hammer has IC:Blunt/warhammer, but none of the other blunt weapon groups - namely no IC:B/unarmed, which is what you need.

EDIT: see below; tested to confirm this does in fact work.

A first life build won't be able to make use of legendary shield mastery twist anyways.

Not at first, sure: but Shiradi 4 -> LD 3 -> GMoF 4 -> US 2 gets you to Legendary Shield Mastery and earns enough Fate pts to unlock the Tier 2 Twist you need to add it in. That's 3.3M XP, so you'll be just past lvl 25 when you unlock it. At that point, I would backtrack to Shiradi to cap it so I could take PTWF @ lvl 26.

One other suggestion: if you want more of an anti-caster focus, you can shift some APs into Occult Slayer: Ear Smash+Knockout is great; Arcane Encumbrance can be useful too. Guarding Bond is okay, but not sure it's worth 6 APs to max out; still, it's something you can play with.

[Tilomere]

Since you listed the other feat pre-reqs: you forgot to mention that TWF req's base DEX 15 while ITWF & GTWF (which you don't take - oversight or not enough feats?) req base DEX 17.

Even for this build, I still don't consider Whirlwind Atk worth the 5-feat cost; so even though I take Dodge, I'd rather use the extra feats to squeeze in some combo of Natural Fighting, Shield Mastery, and/or TWF.

Are you sure this carries over?

Pretty sure ya. I'm 100% sure more than just effects of the weapon are transferring over as well, and a 2H maul like Giant's Fist or 2H/1H + shield multiuse weapon like First Blood would be best, but that's too complex for here. I forgot about putting dex requirements for ITWF and GTWF. PA will be better to cap than Shiradi.

[unbongwah]

A good impact 1H is the level 8 jeweled hammer.

So I logged into test if Impact carried over to wolf form. I bought the cheapest Impact weapon (i.e., not handwraps) I could find, equipped it, and saw it listed "Improved Critical:Unarmed" on my feat list - in fact that was the only weapon listed under the "Improved Critical:Bludgeoning Weapons" section! And I was definitely getting crits on 17-18 rolls in wolf fom, so it was carrying over.

So thanks for the info; one more druid bug I didn't know about!

[Tilomere]

So thanks for the info; one more druid bug I didn't know about!

It gets stranger.

Animal forms don't technically TWF. If they did TWF, the tempest improvements would work, which they don't. Plus they would have to-hit penalties, half stat offhand, and the off-hand weapon would affect attacks. Animal forms main-hand weapon fight, but this main-hand weapon fighting is affected by TWF feats and enhancements, and is what is used without an animal damage die filter on a lot of attacks. Now go spam a bunch of druid and other attacks in animal form with a stripped down character with a store bought +0 dagger, hammer, bsword, maul, and 2 handed sword, with and without a store bought shield, with and without power attack on.

[Xathris]

It gets stranger.

Animal forms don't technically TWF. If they did TWF, the tempest improvements would work, which they don't. Plus they would have to-hit penalties, half stat offhand, and the off-hand weapon would affect attacks. Animal forms main-hand weapon fight, but this main-hand weapon fighting is affected by TWF feats and enhancements, and is what is used without an animal damage die filter on a lot of attacks. Now go spam a bunch of druid and other attacks in animal form with a stripped down character with a store bought +0 dagger, hammer, bsword, maul, and 2 handed sword, with and without a store bought shield, with and without power attack on.

Tilomere, is "WW" Whirlwind Attack? I can't find a feat that matched WW. Also, with two weapon fighting, and starting when I first become a wolf, what should I use for weapons, 2 weapons, 1 and a shield, or something else?

[redoubt]

So I logged into test if Impact carried over to wolf form. I bought the cheapest Impact weapon (i.e., not handwraps) I could find, equipped it, and saw it listed "Improved Critical:Unarmed" on my feat list - in fact that was the only weapon listed under the "Improved Critical:Bludgeoning Weapons" section! And I was definitely getting crits on 17-18 rolls in wolf fom, so it was carrying over.

So thanks for the info; one more druid bug I didn't know about!

What about crafting impact on a shield? Would that work as well to improve your crit range? Or would it only apply to the shield?

If not that, are you putting an impact weapon in your offhand (which is not actually used in wolf) and getting the crit range transfer to your main hand weapon?

[unbongwah]

When I tested it, I was using an Impact weapon in mainhand; didn't think to test offhand, so no clue if it carries over. I mean, it shouldn't, but there's so much which is already broken with animal forms, what's one more bug, eh?

[Xathris]

When I tested it, I was using an Impact weapon in mainhand; didn't think to test offhand, so no clue if it carries over. I mean, it shouldn't, but there's so much which is already broken with animal forms, what's one more bug, eh?

Sorry, I just asked this question on my wolf build thread, but did I get this right?:

In wolf form, you use bludgeoning attack (crit range 19-20).

Get Improved Critical:Bludgeoning, you now have 18-20 crit range.

Now use a blunt weapon in your main hand (ie. Jeweled Hammer) and you now have a crit range of 17-20?

Also, Is it the Jeweled Hammer's Impact 1 that gives you the 17-20 crit range, or something else? If it is something else, do you even need the IC:B feat?

Thanks!

[Rush007]

is it better to cleave with a 1d12 x3 weapon or 5d12 x 4? Which would have more mitigation, 150 prr or 100 prr and 25% dodge (30% possible with ship buff and ninja spy dodge cap increase) ? Is it better to take 60% of the spell damage or zero ? Personally I'd go monk splash and not very deep to retain earthquake CC, better healing and better dots from keeping the caster levels. Level ups into wisdom. Bearform and earthstance goes together beautifully. Grandmaster ED. Cleave, great cleave, alpha strike to get around bearform slowness. Top end monk strike from taking the stances, unknown if they get around bearform slowness. Bonus - this does not use TWF exploit but plenty of monk weapon scaling.

bear form
purple dragon knight

17 druid / 2 monk / 1 fighter

8 normal
power attack
cleave
great cleave
quicken
monk stance
monk stance
monk stance
spell focus evocation

2 monk
stunning fist
deflect arrows

1 fighter
dodge

3 epic
improved critical
overwhelming critical
epic damage reduction

2 destiny
guardian angel (not needed, prr caps, something else)
elusive target

PRR sources
15 earth stance
15 bearform
24 ring or 30
10 epic feat
15 monk destiny
15 shintao enhancements

94-100 total

Dodge sources

11 item
4 monk
3 dodge feat
3 druid enhancment
3 monk enhancement
3 grandmaster ed

27

10 temp dodge from natures warrior non stacking

Enhancements

6 pdk
4 kensei
40 nature's warrior
14 shintao
13 ninja spy

77

[unbongwah]

In wolf form, you use bludgeoning attack (crit range 19-20).

Get Improved Critical:Bludgeoning, you now have 18-20 crit range.

Now use a blunt weapon in your main hand (ie. Jeweled Hammer) and you now have a crit range of 17-20?

No, either the Improved Crit:Blunt feat OR an Impact weapon will double your crit range from 19-20 to 17-20; these do not stack, as they are the same bonus. So the idea is use an Impact weapon until you can take IC:Blunt feat (req's BAB 8, so usually ~lvl 12), then switch to a different weapon.

AFAIK, none of the other crit range bonuses apply to wolf forms - i.e., Keen Edge, Pulverizer, Celestial Champion - except maybe Crit Rage from Ravager, perhaps Adrenaline too. Keen Edge with Druidic Weapons or Martial Arts Focus is supposed to work, but last time I checked it was still bugged.