The Shroud - Not relevant anymore

[Xionanx]

Seriously, to make a GS item and get it "Cleansed" you are forced to run The Shroud 20x, on a 3 day timer that works out to 60 days. How many characters do not make it to 28(or 30, or TR 5x) in 60 days?

This particular mechanic needs to be completely reworked to get people to bother with The Shroud again, people like myself.. who have wanted to make Shroud Items for years but who could never be bothered to NOT TR for 60 whole days, and who when we do TR, our completions are reset.

So I suggest ONE of the following, if not all:

1. Cleansing stones are in the reward loot for EVERY completion.
2. Completions are NOT reset upon TR'ing, so i can do it maybe 2x a life and not feel like I am wasting time doing it.
3. Raid locking timer for The Shroud is removed (and possibly other lower level raids as well).

Its a mechanic that does not fit the current state of the game IMO, and something should be done about it. While my suggestions fit what I would want, I'm sure there are other opinions on what should be done about it, but I think most people would agree, SOMETHING needs to be done.

[Renwa1]

SOMETHING needs to be done.

I agree. I played for years now, and I finally on only one of my characters and on my 3rd TR do I have a character that made his very first greensteel item. And it is still just a blank. I have no idea how to do anything with it yet. At the same time, I do think it should be challenging do to the incredible potential of the items made. So not sure how to approach this.

[Keladon]

I agree. I played for years now, and I finally on only one of my characters and on my 3rd TR do I have a character that made his very first greensteel item. And it is still just a blank. I have no idea how to do anything with it yet. At the same time, I do think it should be challenging do to the incredible potential of the items made. So not sure how to approach this.

I might be mistaken, but I do believe the OP is talking about the time it takes to cleanse those items, not make them.
The effort or time required to make them is perfectly fine in my opinion.

Letting completions persist through TR's would be great though, but not just for shroud, for every raid.
This would also be fair to those who actually ran the raid 20 times for an essence of cleansing, adding it to every end reward list wouldn't.

And you can still use 2 weapons and 1 GS items at the same time without having to cleanse anything, so it's not really that big an issue that they take some effort to get.

[JP457]

I agree. I played for years now, and I finally on only one of my characters and on my 3rd TR do I have a character that made his very first greensteel item. And it is still just a blank. I have no idea how to do anything with it yet. At the same time, I do think it should be challenging do to the incredible potential of the items made. So not sure how to approach this.

There are tools out there that will allow you to design your GS item. Not hard at all, just rather tedious gathering the ingredients.

http://crafting.cubicleninja.com/

[Xionanx]

I might be mistaken, but I do believe the OP is talking about the time it takes to cleanse those items, not make them.
The effort or time required to make them is perfectly fine in my opinion.

Letting completions persist through TR's would be great though, but not just for shroud, for every raid.
This would also be fair to those who actually ran the raid 20 times for an essence of cleansing, adding it to every end reward list wouldn't.

And you can still use 2 weapons and 1 GS items at the same time without having to cleanse anything, so it's not really that big an issue that they take some effort to get.

Yes, it was the "Cleansing" part in particular I was talking about. Everything else seems to to fine, getting the mats, the shards, etc.. all of those still "work" under the current system, but the "Cleansing" part needs to be either removed or updated to reflect the current state of the game.

[JOTMON]

Seriously, to make a GS item and get it "Cleansed" you are forced to run The Shroud 20x, on a 3 day timer that works out to 60 days. How many characters do not make it to 28(or 30, or TR 5x) in 60 days?

This particular mechanic needs to be completely reworked to get people to bother with The Shroud again, people like myself.. who have wanted to make Shroud Items for years but who could never be bothered to NOT TR for 60 whole days, and who when we do TR, our completions are reset.

So I suggest ONE of the following, if not all:

1. Cleansing stones are in the reward loot for EVERY completion.
2. Completions are NOT reset upon TR'ing, so i can do it maybe 2x a life and not feel like I am wasting time doing it.
3. Raid locking timer for The Shroud is removed (and possibly other lower level raids as well).

Its a mechanic that does not fit the current state of the game IMO, and something should be done about it. While my suggestions fit what I would want, I'm sure there are other opinions on what should be done about it, but I think most people would agree, SOMETHING needs to be done.

That was the whole point of running 20 shrouds to be able to get the cleansing stones one so you could wear more than one at a time.

1. no. that's just a bad suggestion.
2 One thing I would like to see is incremental timers not reset on TR's , .. you would still have to reflag every life, but I think this would be a good mechanic to allow people to do their TR lives and not get hung up with incremental 20's on raid counters.
3. no. raid bypass timers should never have existed, the 3 day timer is a mechanic that was intended to prevent people from speed running repeatedly for the quick reward.

I don't believe that any other method should be even considered for Cleansing stones.
Greensteel is best in level range and beyond, making it too easy would just be wrong.

Just because you cant be bothered to stay at a level range to run shroud repeatedly.. why should they make it easier for players to just get what they want without having to work or wait for it.
If you want the shroud you will have to run the shroud...
Cant be bothered .. then move on.

Across all my alts I would have about a thousand Shroud runs, and I am still willing to run many more shrouds for every alt toon I roll up. Shroud is that good for heroic levels and TR's... and clickies..

[Xionanx]

That was the whole point of running 20 shrouds to be able to get the cleansing stones one so you could wear more than one at a time.

1. no. that's just a bad suggestion.
2 One thing I would like to see is incremental timers not reset on TR's , .. you would still have to reflag every life, but I think this would be a good mechanic to allow people to do their TR lives and not get hung up with incremental 20's on raid counters.
3. no. raid bypass timers should never have existed, the 3 day timer is a mechanic that was intended to prevent people from speed running repeatedly for the quick reward.

I don't believe that any other method should be even considered for Cleansing stones.
Greensteel is best in level range and beyond, making it too easy would just be wrong.

Just because you cant be bothered to stay at a level range to run shroud repeatedly.. why should they make it easier for players to just get what they want without having to work or wait for it.
If you want the shroud you will have to run the shroud...
Cant be bothered .. then move on.

Across all my alts I would have about a thousand Shroud runs, and I am still willing to run many more shrouds for every alt toon I roll up. Shroud is that good for heroic levels and TR's... and clickies..

So.. basically what your saying is that you have multiple alts and run each and every one of them every 3 days for 60 days to get Cleansing stones because.. thats a great mechanic, and you think its OK in comparison to other, updated forms of crafting now in the game?

You are also OK with the current system of "not completing" the shroud, and exiting out at the last boss so you can ransack the chests, because that in no way defeats the purpose of the raid timer, which you think is a great mechanic. So, you NEVER did that right?

I'm not suggesting making it "easier", I am suggesting making it less "time consuming" ... TIME SPENT does NOT equal DIFFICULTY

[Qhualor]

I look at it as incentive just like any other raid or quest you want loot from. I ran about 12 Shrouds and about 8 of them were at cap trying to get shards to remake my GS hp item on one character. TRing is an option just like sitting at cap farming for loot is an option. not signed to changing around incentives to fit a TR option.

[phillymiket]

I suspect DDO makes a pretty penny off of Raid Timer Bypasses and I suspect that the 20th reward is a big reason for that, so expect no change IMO.

[Xionanx]

I suspect DDO makes a pretty penny off of Raid Timer Bypasses and I suspect that the 20th reward is a big reason for that, so expect no change IMO.

Yeah, this here is probably why it will never change, and also why that even tho I have been playing this ONE character since 2008, I still only have ONE GS item on it. When I "return" from being away from the game, I usually play 1-2 months max, then take another break of undetermined amounts of time. So in 6 years, I have not once had a full 20 completions of The Shroud, even though I have ran it probably 200+ times.

Clearly, this mechanic is Awesome for everyone and should never be changed

[Faltout]

Clearly, this mechanic is Awesome for everyone and should never be changed

No need to be awesome for everyone.

[General_Gronker]

How many characters do not make it to 28(or 30, or TR 5x) in 60 days?

Lots of them. Maybe investigate more before asking silly questions?

That said, I would like to see cleansing stones as a Bound to Account on Acquire chest drop in the Shroud.

I would also like to see raid completions carry through Reincarnations. But I also think favor should do so as well.

[Faltout]

But I also think favor should do so as well.

And how would we get favor TP then? By rolling new characters over and over?

[Impaqt]

Raid counters should persist through TR.

Everything else? nope.

If you are in a hurry to get a second item, Buy raid timer bypass'. Shrouds are run all the time still. you can get 20 done in a few days if its that important to you.

I dont see the point of 2 items nowadays anyway. far too much quality end game gear to take up 2 spots with Greensteel. Casters need a Con/Op Spell point items, and Melees need a HP item. Sure, its nice to have both... but its certainly not that important.

[Impaqt]

And how would we get favor TP then? By rolling new characters over and over?

sure, why not.

that said, why not keep "total" favor running but reset quest favor. so if you TR with 4999 favor, you wont actually increase until you do a quest you never did before.

That way, we could still regain all the basic favor rewards and TP, AND keep our overall totals.

[FranOhmsford]

Seriously, to make a GS item and get it "Cleansed" you are forced to run The Shroud 20x, on a 3 day timer that works out to 60 days. How many characters do not make it to 28(or 30, or TR 5x) in 60 days?

This particular mechanic needs to be completely reworked to get people to bother with The Shroud again, people like myself.. who have wanted to make Shroud Items for years but who could never be bothered to NOT TR for 60 whole days, and who when we do TR, our completions are reset.

So I suggest ONE of the following, if not all:

1. Cleansing stones are in the reward loot for EVERY completion.
2. Completions are NOT reset upon TR'ing, so i can do it maybe 2x a life and not feel like I am wasting time doing it.
3. Raid locking timer for The Shroud is removed (and possibly other lower level raids as well).

Its a mechanic that does not fit the current state of the game IMO, and something should be done about it. While my suggestions fit what I would want, I'm sure there are other opinions on what should be done about it, but I think most people would agree, SOMETHING needs to be done.

Yet another consequence of the Devs insane decision to add Timer Bypasses to the game!

Rather than getting more people to play Raids more often this has split the population between those who can afford to buy Timers and those who can't {or won't!}.


The Devs simply cannot keep treating ALL Raids the same!

Lower Level need to have different rules to those aimed at the End-Game population!

Bypasses should be removed from sale ASAP - The ones in-game already will gradually be used anyway.

End-Game {Lvl 28+ Raids} should have a 36hr timer.
Lvl 20-27 Raids should have a 12 hr timer
Lvl 6-19 Raids should have no timer whatsoever!

End-Game {Lvl 28+ Raids} should continue to reset completions each TR {but not on E-TRs obviously}.
Lvl 6-27 Raids should never reset completions!

End-Game Raids should continue with the 20 completions rule.
Lvl 20-27 Raids should have that reduced to 12.
Lvl 6-19 Raids should have that further reduced to 6.

[JOTMON]

So.. basically what your saying is that you have multiple alts and run each and every one of them every 3 days for 60 days to get Cleansing stones because.. thats a great mechanic, and you think its OK in comparison to other, updated forms of crafting now in the game?

You are also OK with the current system of "not completing" the shroud, and exiting out at the last boss so you can ransack the chests, because that in no way defeats the purpose of the raid timer, which you think is a great mechanic. So, you NEVER did that right?

I'm not suggesting making it "easier", I am suggesting making it less "time consuming" ... TIME SPENT does NOT equal DIFFICULTY

Yes.
We rolled up alts, to run between timers of mains, we ran regular raid nights, where we would run several different raids, rinse repeat on alts.
LFM's were full of raid trains.
Raid bypass timers should never have existed. it allowed people to focus and burn out a raid in a matter of hours instead of months.


I absolutely ran part 1 repeatedly for shards.
I also recalled before endfight many times on my cleric to help guildies who were completing...
If Turbine didn't want us to be able to do that they would have moved all the chests behind the blue barrier.
generally I preferred to complete and get the chests, hence why many of us rolled up alt toons to cycle alts through the shroud while our mains were on timer.
My Cleric/Rogue (that I built to run shroud) had 328 shroud completions before his first TR all before the existence of raid bypasses).
( and probably as many non-completions.. and that is just one of my 25 alts and not my primary toon. )
I had more shroud gear and cleansing stones than I could use. and still I run shroud on that toon for alts and others.
I also have more screwed up craftings than I care to admit to .. the old system before the planner's laid everything out and made it easy.. required experimentation and we had a lot of trial/error & failed craftings.



OP said " The Shroud - Not relevant anymore" and I disagree. Shroud is absolutely relevant, otherwise people would not run it anymore.. like Titan..
Shroud is the best crafting system in the game as far as I am concerned.
it utilizes components of farming, allows trading of unbound ingredients, and has requirements for flagging and repeat running of flagging quests as well as the raid for bound components.
It is a system that allowed you to collect and build towards the final content and build what you wanted to go where you wanted.
weapons were versatile so you were not pigeon-holed into specific weapons..

I always hated the shard/seal/scroll system since it was so random and the shard/seal we wanted rarely ever dropped.

Time spent is an aspect of the game. otherwise it would end up being a game of "one and done" and cries for more content because we already have everything we want from quests we may not enjoy farming.

[cdbd3rd]

*Looks back at several comments thru thread.*


Didn't they recently change Raid completion counts to not reset on TR?

[JOTMON]

*Looks back at several comments thru thread.*


Didn't they recently change Raid completion counts to not reset on TR?

Its something we have asked for. but as far as I can tell it still resets on TR and ITR. ( my TR last week reset all my counters)
ER (Epic Reincarnations back to 20) and LR's do not reset the raid counters.

[Chi_Ryu]

Didn't they recently change Raid completion counts to not reset on TR?

No. Epic Reincarnation does not reset raid counts and favor; Heroic and Iconic TR reset both, and always have.

I'd love it if they kept Raid counters after TR; not signed to any of the other proposals made in the thread.

Raids should be on a daily timer, not a 3-day timer though.