Basics of quarterstaff'ing

[Bart_D]

I'm planning to spend a lifetime hitting stuff with a staff and specifically considering a Bladeforged with the class split Pal3/Monk12/Rog5. Now I wonder if other splits are much better and if the enhancements from Henshin Mystic and Thief-Acrobat are really redundant?

It seems like both trees offer Staff Training leading to Staff Specialization, and Quick Strike. Will any of these stack or is it all redundant?

Edit: Also, what is this about no glancing blows on cleaves? Has this been fixed or is it WAI?

[unbongwah]

It seems like both trees offer Staff Training leading to Staff Specialization, and Quick Strike. Will any of these stack or is it all redundant?

Staff Training stacks from both trees, so you can have a max of +8 to-hit +12 dmg. Acro Quick Strike is better than Henshin Quick Strike, due to shorter cooldown (12 vs 20 secs). The +15% atk speed from Acrobatics is an unique bonus, so you definitely want it on any staff build. You can only have tier-5 abilities from one PrE, so there's no way to take Staff Specialization from both trees. [OTOH, if you did, say, rog 5 / pal 15, Staff Spec and Holy Sword don't stack due to identical bonuses.]

[elg582]

It seems like both trees offer Staff Training leading to Staff Specialization, and Quick Strike. Will any of these stack or is it all redundant?

It is something of a moot point, since you don't have the AP to spare, anyway: 17 in racial for reconstruct and power of the forge, 32 in thief acrobat, 11 in ninja spy, 6 in sacred defender, and 11 in kotc for DM, leaving 3 points for henshin.

[phillymiket]

It is something of a moot point, since you don't have the AP to spare, anyway: 17 in racial for reconstruct and power of the forge, 32 in thief acrobat, 11 in ninja spy, 6 in sacred defender, and 11 in kotc for DM, leaving 3 points for henshin.

This^

I found it impossible to have all the staff goodies from both trees and have anything left over for necessaries.

I went with Thief/Acrobat, got the goodies from race tree, ninja & pally and ignored Henshin completely.

[LordTigerDawn]

I have done 11 past lives as a qstaff user.

If you want bladeforged, you really just want 2 rogue, 15 paladin (for holy sword and zeal). 3 whatever class you want. I really do not understand why so many players think monk + rogue is needed. You do not have the AP points to get everything you want when you do this.

Most of what you can gain from all the extra monk and rogue lvls can be also done with the harper tree and using holy sword instead of staff specialization allows for tier 5 harper to be used.

of course this is a mute point if you need a monk past life. This was not specified in the post.

[phillymiket]

I really do not understand why so many players think monk + rogue is needed.

Shadow Veil is the reason for me.

Now with Pally upgrade being so very nice and Champions with TS all that has kind of changed things but I'm sticking with my build until I'm done eTRing because I'm stubborn.

[elg582]

I really do not understand why so many players think monk + rogue is needed.

6 monk gives 25% incorporeal, which is really important in light/cloth armor, and with the mandatory 1 level of rogue, that means no zeal/holy sword, so no point in more than 3 levels of paladin; that's OK, though, since monk forms and staff spec is just as good, and you can load up on monk levels for better forms, extra feats, abundant step, and improved evasion.

Being AP-tight is a good thing; it means that you have a lot of good stuff.

[phillymiket]

so no point in more than 3 levels of paladin;

Four levels of Pally unlocks Empowered Healing if Cocoon or Dragonmarks are your thing.

[elg582]

Four levels of Pally unlocks Empowered Healing if Cocoon or Dragonmarks are your thing.

On a bladeforged?

[Blackheartox]

I did a 15 palie 4 rogue 1 monk staff build.
It was kinda fun, but i tested 2 different playstyles since it was bf, first was with maxed dodge master earth stance and focusing on that playstyle.
Then i etrd to a addie body version.
If i was to build a palie staff build again would definitely be 15 palie 4 rogue 1 fighter or any variation of 15 palie xx rogue xx fighter.

Shadow veil and monk splashing is just to weak with harmor being as powerful as it is now, you dont need t5 rogue since holy sword doesnt stack and outperforms it.
Sneak is the only real good thing about rogue, but the survival from palie is just so big that on the long run you do way more dps due to no need to back out of fight for healing.
Also light damage on hit is quite nice with a speed style build as staff is
What i did is pick qstrike, go for killer, some stance stuff, some dmight stuff recon and whack like a madman.

Monk splashing to me at least is mostly dead for melles.
Its "okish" but the survivability compared to harmor is so low.
I would pick monk levels only for chucker, tree and monkcher builds nowadays.

Another good way to build a staff build would be 18 palie 2 rogue, no killer that way but the lv 18 core is really powerful as well. Also harmor of course cuz evasion? meh to evasion nowadays.
Also im interested how a barb would be with new changes as staff user.
Some kind ravager some stuff from berserker 18 barb 2 rogue or whatever.
With dfrenzy frenzy and the crit range..
Maybe ok, someone should try.

[phillymiket]

On a bladeforged?

Oh bladeforge only? No of course not but for a Fleshy it's an option.

You mentioned light/cloth armor in the same sentence so I though you meant in general.

[elg582]

Oh bladeforge only? No of course not but for a Fleshy it's an option.

You mentioned light/cloth armor in the same sentence so I though you meant in general.

Yea, I wasn't thinking, but the build in question (and the version I am running) is bladeforged.

[Bart_D]

Thanks for replies so far, very useful

Looking at it a little more closely, it seems like Henshin Mystic does not offer much other than that T-A does not (and Quick Strike has longer cooldown for some reason) so monk 6 is enough, giving feats, stance, and Ninja Spy enhancements on the way to Shadow Veil. As someone mentioned, 4th paladin level does not offer much to Bladeforged so something like Bladeforged Paladin3/Rogue11/Monk6 or Fleshie Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4 seems better (Pal4 for EmpHeal for Cocoon twist in epics). This is for a multi-TR character that can still use many different PLs, I would just like to get some Iconic PLs at the same time.

I have rolled up a Shadar-Kai R5/M6/P4 to test things. This is old news but I still wanted to test: I do seem to get glancing blows on staff-cleaves and 25% melee doublestrike from hitting with Quick Strike is impressive. I am also getting critical damage on 16 with Fists of Iron so it seems to stack with the Competence bonus from Staff Specialization - does anyone know what type the critical improvement from FoI is?

About Killer enhancement: It is 5% morale doublestrike on kill, stacking 2/3/4 times and costs 26 ap to get fully. This seems weaker than 25% from Quick Strike that can be kept up 10 of 12 seconds... Am I missing something?

About Paladin15 staff'er: Zeal looks like it will stack with most things, not bad! Holy Sword is better than Staff Specialization so less than 5 rogue levels are needed. It seems like a Pal15/RogueX/Fighter(5-X) would work well on a PDK, right?

[fairline33]

I'm planning to spend a lifetime hitting stuff with a staff and specifically considering a Bladeforged with the class split Pal3/Monk12/Rog5. Now I wonder if other splits are much better and if the enhancements from Henshin Mystic and Thief-Acrobat are really redundant?

It seems like both trees offer Staff Training leading to Staff Specialization, and Quick Strike. Will any of these stack or is it all redundant?

Edit: Also, what is this about no glancing blows on cleaves? Has this been fixed or is it WAI?

WHO the hell is JUGGERNAUT ? IM PALARMO !


Bladeforged Paladin 4/ Artificer 11/ Monk 5 Trap/umd skills full with gear, endless self healing, major base 130-220 dmg. in cab 1000-3000 dmg/crits/destiny with staff and some nice buffs (every circle got some to run with in destinys).

Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(4 Paladin / 5 Monk / 11 Artificer / 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 416
Spell Points: 783

BAB: 15/15/20/25/25
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 14
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement all stats/abilitys need gear . pls remember gears make youre toon for endgame.
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 28 (All ability increases) with gear and buffs its 52-64+ easily self buffed dmg spells/abilitys/enchantments makes it even better. What comes to dps.
Dexterity 6 11 ( have save boosts elsewhere )+ gear
Constitution 16 21 end hp about 800-1000 + on legendary . gear makes biggest difference.
Intelligence 16 21 ( gear )
Wisdom 6 11 ( have save boosts elsewhere )+ gear
Charisma 16 21 ( first lifer can drop charisma to 14). Saves are still ok/nice with gear.

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19



Theres not shown, how skill points, have been used. ( youre call )

(Mainly search full, disable full, repair full, UMD 13 , openlock 17 , spellcraft 7-14 , heal 5-10 , balance 1-5 , spot 1-5 , jump 1 , tumble 1 , concenration 1 ).

dps spells not important still usefull. Jump and UMD full in the end with gear and abilitys. Trap skills too.


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance -2 12
Bluff 3 13
Concentration 5 15
Diplomacy 3 13
Disable Device n/a 33
Haggle 3 13
Heal 2 19
Hide -2 8
Intimidate 3 13
Jump 4 21
Listen -2 8
Move Silently -2 8
Open Lock n/a 9
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 32
Search 3 34
Spellcraft 4 29
Spot -2 12
Swim 3 17
Tumble -1 9
Use Magic Device 4 24

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades ( bonus feat. from Paladin )
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) PPast Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard ( NO NEED FOR ANY PAST LIFES. REALLY ). Easy build for collect epic past lifes and make it stronger.
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow ( Important/Good to have )

Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack ( Important ) bonus feat.

Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting ( Important ) bonus feat.

Level 4 (Artificer)

Level 5 (Artificer)

Level 6 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave ( Important )

Level 7 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell ( Important ) bonus feat.

Level 8 (Artificer)

Level 9 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting ( Important )

Level 10 (Artificer)

Level 11 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Maximize Spell ( can change to other ) bonus feat.

Level 12 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons ( Important )

Level 13 (Artificer)

Level 14 (Artificer)

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting ( important )

Level 16 (Monk)

Level 17 (Monk)

Level 18 (Monk) adept of forms ( important )

Level 19 (Paladin)

Level 20 (Paladin)

Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical ( important )

Level 22 (Epic)

Level 23 (Epic)

Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms ( important )

Level 25 (Epic)

Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting ( can change to other ) good to have.

Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms ( can change to other )

Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target ( can change to other )



Twists of fate .........final destiny legendary dreadnought

tier 1 (important)
dance of flowers +W 1.5 when centered

tier 2 (when running destinys open) later what you like.
momentum swing

tier 3 (when running destinys open) later what you like.
lay waste

Have been using some skill tomes to main ones.

Just ask if youre curious about it ?
might check this site someday.

[Bart_D]

I'm slowly nearing the end of this paladin life that I ended up running as Shadar-Kai Rogue5/Paladin15 staff'er in Divine Crusader. Some random thoughts/my experiences:

- Hitting fast is fun!

- Sireth is a nice weapon. Until I could use that, I mostly used a +++GS staff and an upgraded Dreamsplitter. From looking at the 'infallible' statistic of kill counts, dps seems good.

- Ro2/Pa18 would probably have been better: I have spent most APs in paladin trees and not used the higher TA enhancements much at all. Ftr2/Rog3 might have been better too.

- Who cares about traps any more? It seems the main point of disabling is the XP bonus. Being able to disarm was sometimes handy for xp but never really seemed needed (or someone else did them faster than me).

- Paladin is not quite as survivable as I imagined (not many LoHs, empowered cure spells are still small) but with Cocoon and Divine Crusader, I have rarely died from except from knockdown or other CC.

- I have sometimes really missed having a credible ranged attack, not sure how I could have done that

[LavidDynch]

[Raezar]

that explains a lot... you owe me rez scrolls :P