Vip - rip

[Hafeal]

An 8 page thread on a player who rants because they failed an Elite run on Korthos after not having played in a long time on a new character. LMAO.

Haven't played in a while? As has been suggested, repeatedly, run a different difficulty. Normal has NO crowns. Try that.

As for Korthos having crowns - I am completely good with it. You need to learn what you are up against on higher difficulty settings as you move through the game. Removing them from Korthos will make Elite WW that much more of a shock. You can go back to Korthos after getting some xp and re-learning the ropes.

I am ALL for helping new, casual and returning players. Seriously though, complaining about Elite not being soloable, at level 1, can't be anything but a troll.

[Azarddoze]

Which of course is absolutely false for the starter area that is the subject of this topic. There is no skill involved in these starter areas at all. It's strictly gears and other accumulated benefits.

Just re-read this thread and you'll see that there are skills and knowledge involved even in Korthos. It's not even arguable.

Also, the toughest difficulty is something that is usually across the board. It doesn't have to be (to a certain extent) about end game or not. Stuff gets more "complicated" as you advance but the power you obtain usually negate the difficulty increase of mobs... if you stick to the same difficulty.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Agreed (and Tesara has always been parked in a corner out of harm's way with an Invis clicky applied for me, I dread what the quest was like before you could do that).

However, on Elite, the crystal has had the potential to be destroyed in one shot on a critical hit for as long as I have been playing (even though Keladon has never personally seen this happen, I assure you I have on multiple occasions, and no it wasn't hit more than one time), and Champions have not changed that particular aspect - would more HP fix this, or is it a special case hard coded? Either way, I would not complain if it were removed - although it does make the quest more interesting for me, albeit sometimes tedious and definitely differentiates the quest on that difficulty from lower ones.

Tesera's always been parkable AFAIK, but it's not the most common knowledge, even among vets.
The crystal used to be able to handle 5-6 hits a couple of years ago; Turbine was ninja-ing some mob behavior and *whoops* nerfed a bunch of stuff (might have been around the time traps got super nasty all of a sudden). It's not a special case, because Lars got fixed after people complained.

There are also some mob AI/aggro issues that need to be addressed, but I thought this thread had enough branches as it was.

[walkin_dude]

I was using the rusty longsword and the rusty mace from heytons crypt.

You get better than that just by doing the Grotto... :P

[Yavool]

...even after your hiatus, one thing is for sure: constitution is still not a dump stat.

Do the quest on a lower difficulty; you can start your bravery bonus on the next quest.
Put up a LFG and get some people to defend the crystal with you.

My barely double-digit children did the Korthos quests this last weekend without much concern. I am sure as a returning veteran, you can do it too.

Best,

-yav

[FestusHood]

Tesera's always been parkable AFAIK, but it's not the most common knowledge, even among vets.
The crystal used to be able to handle 5-6 hits a couple of years ago; Turbine was ninja-ing some mob behavior and *whoops* nerfed a bunch of stuff (might have been around the time traps got super nasty all of a sudden). It's not a special case, because Lars got fixed after people complained.

There are also some mob AI/aggro issues that need to be addressed, but I thought this thread had enough branches as it was.

I would swear that when i first started playing Tesara would just stay where she started through the whole quest. At some point she acquired a death wish that made her start running out of the fort. At least that's the way i remember it.

[jellyfish21]

Lanhelin, I have over 30 lives. I never do the Crystal by myself, ever. It is a quest for a party. The developers seem to have stumbled upon a method for us to require a party. I'm glad of it.

[Ayseifn]

That's a horrible way to justify that and I'm sure I don't have to tell you why.

It's one quest out of hundreds.
It's one quest that a first life rogue who dumped str/dex beat on their first attempt, on elite.
It's one quest that another first life rogue who dumped str/dex beat on their third attempt, also on elite.
It's one quest that requires a bit of strategy/luck if short manning.
It's one quest that benefits well from grouping.

I really don't see the big deal, I don't step into elite Abbot solo and then complain about the floor puzzle randomly killing me. I also don't step into some of those necro quests that pretty much require party members to finish solo on elite and expect to complete 100% of the time.

I get it you really really really hate random. I like random, if I've done the quest hundreds of times over 10s of TRs having it be exactly the same every single time is incredibly boring. If I spend a minute or two redoing freaking Cannith Crystal it's not a problem at all and is kinda funny TBH, spices things up and makes me possibly pay attention for once.

[LongshotBro]

Nope.
A new player would simply expect a game to make sense and be fun.
If it doesn't make sense and isn't fun for them they won't keep playing.
99% of new players aren't going to come to the forums for solutions, they don't even know we are here.

I totally understand the idea of making Elite difficult and support it.
I'm even fine with this halfazzed Champion 'solution' to game balance, even though it solves nothing.

But the starter area is nonsensical right now.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I just picture a person joining DDO and thinking this:

"Why is that spider wearing a crown? Why is the spider harder to kill than the Boss with the special name?
Why does the weapon I was given to fight these monsters do 0 damage to this guy?
Oh no! Another crown!....wait... Now why is this crown guy so easy to kill when the last one was super hard?
Why does the NCP have a crown? Why does the corpse have a crown? the corpse?!?
Who are these crowns anyway? Is it a 'cultist' thing?
Why is the Normal and below setting in this game so stupidly easy and the Hard and above setting so much harder?
Meh, this game is stupid."

Whether you can or can't protect the crystal, whether you are or aren't getting one-shot, isn't really even the big issue.
Whether a new person can or can't complete Hard or Elite - or if they even should be able to complete - is not even the big issue.
The point is they will be trying Hard and Elite and when they do we start to look like fools.

It's probably proper that our starter area is now nonsensical, disorganized, random, and full of bugs.
That kind of represents the game as a whole, I guess.

Me? I say lets put on our 'dress up' face for Korthos and pretend this game isn't becoming a disaster of crippling bugs and sucker some of these fools into dropping some $$$ so I can play DDO a little while longer before we collapse under the weight of one bad decision after another.

But.. i guess the important thing is that we put our foot down and finally make a stand - after 4 full years of Elite as the Normal - and Korthos is the place to make that stand!

And so there we are...
Champions aren't changing, so at this point I'm just spinning my wheels here and so is anyone else in this thread.

Past Dev team performance says Champions stays in it's current form for a long long time until....
...some new Devs come along with conflicting ideas that they push through anyway and we have, i dunno, a Champion who get buffs from a 'tree buff system' or something that just adds another layer of broke on top of the game without fixing whats wrong.

SOOOO much better than going back through the quests and rebalancing the game in the proper way that it needed.

/defeatism off

i'm no stranger to DDO, so i can't speak for what a new player might think. But i will say, as regards many other games i've tried, i did not think "why is this hard" when i tried my hand at what are clearly harder quests. i'll give you an example. in SWTOR, playing the content solo is pretty straightforward and not that difficult. after a little bit, you feel pretty tough, like hey, my character is powerful compared to these mobs.

i'd walk around and pick up all the quests, following the map to each one. then all of a sudden...BAM! i'm getting my butt handed to me. not sure why. i'm in the level range. So i actually READ the entry in the quest log and it seems there are quests (called HEROIC +4) that are extremely challenging at level and basically require a group, or a very skilled and geared player and character. and this is not deep into the game. i'm talking in the starter area, after the hand-holding quests outside the front door of where you begin the game.

is this nonsensical? not in the least.

a lot of these debates imagine a theoretical brand new player who comes off the boat in Korthos, presumably clicking every NPC in sight without reading anything, then diving into clearly marked very hard quests and getting discouraged when they get spanked. does anyone really remember when they started, for real? hitting stealth to creep down the hallway in the Low Road because you honestly didn't know what to expect and thought "cool there's a stealth toggle." getting killed by iron defenders while trying to find Goodblade's sword outside the inn?

i sure remember those times, when you had to start on normal, then hard to even open elite and once you did, you realized it was actually difficult.

too often we're hypothesizing that someone d/l the client, rolls a character that is destined for re-rolling, then begins playing thinking they can jump into the top tier difficulty like it's NBD. like if they even stepped foot inside normal or hard, they'd immediately be like "this is too easy."

i have examined the starter area in depth to be honest, reading everything that NPCs say as well as popup tips, etc. New players have opportunities to learn plenty, a lot more than you might think. Premade builds are not worthless, and players could reasonably tackle normal and even hard using them and the loot you acquire.

The whole idea that elite has to be accessible to everyone is bizarre to me. i don't mean it should be closed off, but it should definitely not be something anyone can tackle at any time with any character. it's elite.

[phillymiket]

i'm no stranger to DDO, so i can't speak for what a new player might think. But i will say, as regards many other games i've tried, i did not think "why is this hard" when i tried my hand at what are clearly harder quests. i'll give you an example. in SWTOR, playing the content solo is pretty straightforward and not that difficult. after a little bit, you feel pretty tough, like hey, my character is powerful compared to these mobs.

i'd walk around and pick up all the quests, following the map to each one. then all of a sudden...BAM! i'm getting my butt handed to me. not sure why. i'm in the level range. So i actually READ the entry in the quest log and it seems there are quests (called HEROIC +4) that are extremely challenging at level and basically require a group, or a very skilled and geared player and character. and this is not deep into the game. i'm talking in the starter area, after the hand-holding quests outside the front door of where you begin the game.

is this nonsensical? not in the least.

a lot of these debates imagine a theoretical brand new player who comes off the boat in Korthos, presumably clicking every NPC in sight without reading anything, then diving into clearly marked very hard quests and getting discouraged when they get spanked. does anyone really remember when they started, for real? hitting stealth to creep down the hallway in the Low Road because you honestly didn't know what to expect and thought "cool there's a stealth toggle." getting killed by iron defenders while trying to find Goodblade's sword outside the inn?

i sure remember those times, when you had to start on normal, then hard to even open elite and once you did, you realized it was actually difficult.

too often we're hypothesizing that someone d/l the client, rolls a character that is destined for re-rolling, then begins playing thinking they can jump into the top tier difficulty like it's NBD. like if they even stepped foot inside normal or hard, they'd immediately be like "this is too easy."

i have examined the starter area in depth to be honest, reading everything that NPCs say as well as popup tips, etc. New players have opportunities to learn plenty, a lot more than you might think. Premade builds are not worthless, and players could reasonably tackle normal and even hard using them and the loot you acquire.

The whole idea that elite has to be accessible to everyone is bizarre to me. i don't mean it should be closed off, but it should definitely not be something anyone can tackle at any time with any character. it's elite.

This is a nice response. Thank you. I appreciate someone who posts in a polite and calm manner even if I disagree with them, a trait I could stand to better aspire to.
So forgive me when I say I think you are totally missing the point of what I was saying.

The simple fact that Champions add difficulty isn't the biggest thing.
I said that a few times, many times in fact.
In the very quote you quoted i said it twice flat out and implied it at least three other times.
It's not that it's difficult, it's how totally buggy and random the whole thing is.

So I'll say it again just be sure, having Elite be difficult is fine and isn't the problem. That's how it should be in fact.

But having rats and spiders with completely unexplained crowns on their head (which by itself is pretty odd) somehow be tougher than the boss makes no sense.
Having an NCP or a corpse with a crown makes no sense.
If you lose and die because a Champion takes zero damage from your weapon and then head back into that same quest with a new weapon to combat the Champions immunities only to have it be a totally different mob with differnt properties, it makes no sense. You can't learn from random.
You can, as you point out, learn from Korthos.
That's because it's a well designed area. So people would be learning despite Champions not because of them.

So just to be sure, I didn't say having Elite be difficult makes no sense. Nowhere did I say that. I said having Normal be stupidly easy and then having a big jump up with no in between stage makes no sense.

I probably spoke too strongly again in this post, as I have been on this subject. So I apologize in advance given your measured and respectful reply. :-)

[Chi_Ryu]

But having rats and spiders with completely unexplained crowns on their head (which by itself is pretty odd) somehow be tougher than the boss makes no sense.
Having an NCP or a corpse with a crown makes no sense.
If you lose and die because a Champion takes zero damage from your weapon and then head back into that same quest with a new weapon to combat the Champions immunities only to have it be a totally different mob with differnt properties, it makes no sense. You can't learn from random.

You learn that monsters with a crown over their head have something special abut them, and this should pique your curiosity - at the very least you learn that they take a lot longer to kill. When you see that the specifics change each time, you may suppose that they have a randomised ability.

Just as I learned that something special happens to ogres when they enter an ogre rage, even though I did not know exactly what the cryptic icon meant.

It would be useful of the game flagged it up with a tooltip the first time you meet one (and perhaps also reminding you that you can press "z" to get a status indicator of your target). However, acrown is a particularly iconic indicator of an elevated rank (again, think Kings and Queens in Chess - or in fact just kings and queens generally!).

I agree that corpses having Champion status is silly (and probably a bug) - I don't necessarily think this for NPCs, as NPCs may at a later time become combatable (either as friends or foes).

Perhaps it boils down to some people like randomness (I do, to a certain extent) and it is clear that other people do not.

[Keladon]

It's one quest out of hundreds.
It's one quest that a first life rogue who dumped str/dex beat on their first attempt, on elite.
It's one quest that another first life rogue who dumped str/dex beat on their third attempt, also on elite.
It's one quest that requires a bit of strategy/luck if short manning.
It's one quest that benefits well from grouping.

I really don't see the big deal, I don't step into elite Abbot solo and then complain about the floor puzzle randomly killing me. I also don't step into some of those necro quests that pretty much require party members to finish solo on elite and expect to complete 100% of the time.

I get it you really really really hate random. I like random, if I've done the quest hundreds of times over 10s of TRs having it be exactly the same every single time is incredibly boring. If I spend a minute or two redoing freaking Cannith Crystal it's not a problem at all and is kinda funny TBH, spices things up and makes me possibly pay attention for once.

That's not what I meant or quoted.
I was talking about the way you said that, as if it's no problem if something doesn't work as intended because you can just restart.

But I honestly don't care anymore, if we get less new players, Turbine will know and act accordingly.
Everyone can keep pretending they know how every single new player that tries DDO thinks, but in the end we don't have a clue what's really happening because of things like this or if it even changed anything.

[Loromir]

Lanhelin, I have over 30 lives. I never do the Crystal by myself, ever. It is a quest for a party. The developers seem to have stumbled upon a method for us to require a party. I'm glad of it.

HMM...I solo it every life (On Elite with a lvl 1 character). I'll admit, I have failed occasionally when I was lazy about protecting the crystal. But that was just me being lazy.

[FranOhmsford]

I can understand the frustration of randomness. That is nothing new in this game however. Random loot drops have been a long source of player frustration. I know it's a little different because it doesn't equal failing a quest. I have seen some champ with a couple nasty combos send me in "retreat mode" to heal up, but those were all higher level. Low level mobs in general don't hit hard enough to really make a fuss about it and most low level characters have so little to no fort that the fort bypass buff doesn't mean anything. So far the regular orges in WW are tougher than any champ I've seen. Now if one of those ogres gets to be a champ that could be messy, but IIRC they are all optional anyways.



My tone began helpful and inquisitive and proceeded to match the ops tone towards me step by step.



Not quite.

The op is a returning player who said he used to breeze through elite korthos. He returned found one quest a little challenging and made a post with tones of quitting again.

Long story short:

OP ranted
I tried to help
OP thru poo
I thru poo back

Umm...Not quite Braegan - See below:

So you left when the game was easy and now you want to quit because the game is hard?

I am sure somewhere there is porridge just right for you.

Sarcasm aside, did you try a group or solo?

Did you use a hire?

Did you make use of Hypno or Charm Person as a wizzy?

So many tools available, I am just wondering what ones you tried and failed with.

You started off with abrasive sarcasm then proceeded to talk about spells that a newbie {or a returning player who'd only ever played low level quests before} wouldn't even consider taking!


In Later posts where you showed that YOU could complete that quest you ignored stuff the OP had stated in his rant like that:
1) He was a Wiz/Rogue at Lvl 1 - i.e. almost guaranteed to be a Rogue {only the greenest of the green wouldn't take Rog at Lvl 1!}.
2) You then took SWF when you swapped to a lvl 1 Rogue - The Guy's playing a Wiz/Rogue - No way would his 1st feat be a Melee feat!



Now I've had have issues with Cannith Crystal on 2nd & 3rd life 1st lvl Rogues and Clerics/Souls BEFORE Champions - This quest causes different problems for players...Mainly that of the Crystal getting one-shot {or two-shot if you're lucky} far too often.
Mobs will ignore you and go straight for the crystal even if you're standing with your back against it and you've hit them!
I'm not sure how Bluff...which turns mobs AWAY from you is a good idea here and it seems counter-intuitive to use a skill that gives a higher chance of the mobs targeting the crystal!

With Champions all these issues are magnified!



Now - I'm not saying the OP is in the right either BUT that you most certainly did not start out helpful and inquisitive!


The guy who told the OP about using the Barb hire for this quest was HELPFUL!

And the OP was right about that being counter-intuitive as for 90% of the game the Cleric hire is by far the best choice {the other 10% being when you absolutely need a trapper!}.
BUT
For Cannith Crystal on a Character with low {or no} DPS you need a Hire with said DPS and that's not Dryad!


P.S. If you're just starting out on a new character then you have two choices:
1) Run Storehouse's Secret and possibly Heyton's Rest BEFORE Cannith Crystal {You could also go to Stormreach Harbour and run the solo quests and some Cerulean Hills Slayer to get you to Lvl 2 before going back to Korthos.
or
2) Run the Crystal FIRST on NORMAL or HARD as you won't have a streak to break and can come back to Crystal later for the extra 2-4 Favour!

[Chi_Ryu]

In Later posts where you showed that YOU could complete that quest you ignored stuff the OP had stated in his rant like that:
1) He was a Wiz/Rogue at Lvl 1 - i.e. almost guaranteed to be a Rogue {only the greenest of the green wouldn't take Rog at Lvl 1!}.
2) You then took SWF when you swapped to a lvl 1 Rogue - The Guy's playing a Wiz/Rogue - No way would his 1st feat be a Melee feat!

But then I did the same thing - and I took Insightful Reflexes and completed the quest naked and weaponless (since the OP was claiming it was Bregan's Founder gear that made the difference). And I am far from an Elite player.

I'm not sure how Bluff...which turns mobs AWAY from you is a good idea here and it seems counter-intuitive to use a skill that gives a higher chance of the mobs targeting the crystal!

You are thinking of Diplomacy. Bluff will not lower your aggro with a mob, just disorientates them for a few seconds, and anyone starting a rogue should be thinking of how to use it (it's on your default hotbar just to remind you).

You could have always used intimidate instead.

And the OP was right about that being counter-intuitive as for 90% of the game the Cleric hire is by far the best choice {the other 10% being when you absolutely need a trapper!}.

A Cleric hire is not needed in the initial quests in Korthos, when there are starter CLW potions dropping all over the place. How would a new player "know" a Cleric is the best choice, anyway? As a Rogue I'd want a fighter type to get aggro so I can sneak attack all over the place.

P.S. If you're just starting out on a new character then you have two choices:
1) Run Storehouse's Secret and possibly Heyton's Rest BEFORE Cannith Crystal {You could also go to Stormreach Harbour and run the solo quests and some Cerulean Hills Slayer to get you to Lvl 2 before going back to Korthos.

Which was, to be honest, advice already given in this thread (aside from skipping Korthos and going to the Harbor - I wouldn't advise that for a new player). Along with the other advice suggested, which is to re-run HR and TSS on Hard and then take level 2 (makes things a lot easier).

[psykopeta]

If "take the barb instead of the cleric" was the best advice, it's easy to try. I'll report soon. But where is the memo for "Take the Barb!"?, who actually never was taken before, at least when I last was on.

sorry, that's a false statement, in elite quests before the champs, til doing quests lvl 3-4 on normal like waterworks, the best option at low levels always have been the dps hires (from lvl 1 barb jump to lvl 3 barb, both wf iirc)

once you start having some dps and hp, then you need a cleric hire, meanwhile iit's only making longer quests (you know their AI isn't awesome, so you would prolly die before you get healed depending you hp)

i mean, when i started playing ddo (doing norm, then hard, then elite XD), after the 1st solo quest i went directly to buy a fighter, then a barb, cause quests could take ages instead of min(and running in public are was sooooo slow...lol)

[slarden]

Just re-read this thread and you'll see that there are skills and knowledge involved even in Korthos. It's not even arguable.

Also, the toughest difficulty is something that is usually across the board. It doesn't have to be (to a certain extent) about end game or not. Stuff gets more "complicated" as you advance but the power you obtain usually negate the difficulty increase of mobs... if you stick to the same difficulty.

I don't find any of the champion stuff in korthos to involve skill. Most of the things being touted as skills are simply knowledge gained and not a skill. This is a PVE content mastery game and not a game of skill.

The purpose of Korthos is to learn the basic game mechanics not to experience an extreme challenge. There is enough to learn there - champions should be introduced after Korthos and the Harbor. These are places where vets spend a minimal amount of time and new players may spend a few months experimenting with different difficulties.

[Connman]

You read all of these words here:



Then went and played ONE quest, found out that they were in fact accurate when they say it will be challenging.
Then after having an experience exactly as described in the initial description you chose to come and post this here.

I'm a returner. You'll easily recognize me as my toon actually is named "Returner" (on Wayfinder, 1st life to get in again, Rogue/Wiz planned) and performing as bad as you guys at Turbine probably bet on?! When I left, quests on Khorthos were easy, almost all even on Elite, except the one where to keep the npc alive. All fine, but now I fail at the "defeat the chrystal" quest all the time (lol? w.t.f.?), because on every attempt two champions spawn and kill me and my hire with one hit instantly. I do not know what the deeper sense of this gameplay design decision was? If I was Turbine, I'd probably say: well, we know we made this game - but we don't want you to be vip (because DDO is dead) - and if you dare anyway, we simply kill you. Is this your very intention? If not, then this clearly is a bug (I wonder why it not had been mentioned already) that has to be removed now.

Edit:
I mean, what is the incentive nowadays to become a VIP? Getting all the content but getting ripped in the first elite quest? No, definitely not. Please, take a little more time to think about your decisions - or explain the hyper-10-times-reincarnated-it's-still-a-challenge difficulty increase! Or should I move DDO directly into the desktop-basket, should I uninstall, is this your intention? I want an answer, please.

You got exactly what you paid for.
What am I missing?

[FranOhmsford]

But then I did the same thing - and I took Insightful Reflexes and completed the quest naked and weaponless (since the OP was claiming it was Bregan's Founder gear that made the difference). And I am far from an Elite player.

Did I forget to mention how your proof was better? I'm sorry but considering I was rebutting Braegan's ludicrous contention that he came to this thread to be helpful when he was abrasive right from the start!
And using HIS posts {not YOURS} to show this!

You are thinking of Diplomacy. Bluff will not lower your aggro with a mob, just disorientates them for a few seconds, and anyone starting a rogue should be thinking of how to use it (it's on your default hotbar just to remind you).

I'll take your word for this as I've literally never used Diplo!

You could have always used intimidate instead.

Lol - So a Wiz/Rogue build starting with 1 level in Rogue on a 1st life so chances are 10 Cha at best will have a viable Intim in Elite?
This is the stat that has had to be basically maxed to be of any use whatsoever for the past 4 years!

A Cleric hire is not needed in the initial quests in Korthos, when there are starter CLW potions dropping all over the place. How would a new player "know" a Cleric is the best choice, anyway? As a Rogue I'd want a fighter type to get aggro so I can sneak attack all over the place.

What you'd think coming into the game as a Cleric - I'd better get a Fighter/Barb hire - soon proves to be utterly wrong {and as a player who's made heavy use of hirelings throughout my time playing DDO I'm talking from experience here!}.
Cleric hires are quicker to charge into battle than literally any other hire!
Cleric hires do decent {for a hireling} DPS actually - Yes Hires with Greatswords/G-Axes do more but it's not enough more to make a noticeable difference in my experience.
Arcane hires at low levels are atrocious - they only get useful once they get GH! {the bard - Lairon with Blur and Inspire Courage is an exception to this but he could be considered a divine hire anyway with his Cure Light Wounds.}.

And biggest issue of all - The main reason to have a hire isn't DPS it's HEALS!

Which was, to be honest, advice already given in this thread (aside from skipping Korthos and going to the Harbor - I wouldn't advise that for a new player). Along with the other advice suggested, which is to re-run HR and TSS on Hard and then take level 2 (makes things a lot easier).

Two people giving the same advice is NOT a bad thing - It's called seconding!

Pretty much the 1st thing I do upon TRing is to run the Solo Quests in the Harbour - Getting them out of the way!
Home Sweet Sewer. Miller's Debt and Explosive Situation are all eminently doable by a 1st life newbie at Lvl 1!
Arachnophobia is quite a bit more difficult {COMPARATIVELY!} but not in any way the equal of Butcher's Path or Stealthy Repo even on Normal!
Cerulean Hills is worth 4.5-5k xp on a 1st clearance with all Explorers and 2/4 rares and is only slightly more difficult than Korthos Island {which a player who hasn't completed the Village Quests can't even go out to!}.

If a new Player is having difficulty in Korthos there are options!

One of the first things I learned when I came to this game was to leave Snowyside by way of Valairia and return to Sunnyside - Running the Solo Harbour Quests and Cerulean Hills Slayer is an extension of this!
And even better - These won't break that all important 2 quest Elite Streak!

[Chi_Ryu]

Fran, we are talking about Korthos Village quests here, not trying to solo Proof is in the Poison. These are quests that are easier than the average quest at the same difficulty, which includes things like the DCs needed for social skills (and for traps, for that matter).

The problem is that you are trying to extrapolate the use of hires for later levels back to a starter environment, and apply your learned logic (that Clerics are pretty much the best choice of hire in all cases) to a starter environment with players that won't know that Clerics will be the best choice in almost all cases later.

I'll take your word for this as I've literally never used Diplo!

It is very useful for ridding aggro from you. You should try it in low level quests sometimes.

Lol - So a Wiz/Rogue build starting with 1 level in Rogue on a 1st life so chances are 10 Cha at best will have a viable Intim in Elite?

In Korthos Village, yes indeed. You can pass an Intim check on Cannith Crystal Elite on a total roll of 10 (which is the same for Bluff and Diplomacy). That's a 50% chance on your almost-entirely-dumped Cha Rogue, and a 40% chance even on a Cha dumped Half-Orc. If you have maxed Int (as a Wiz/Rogue will have), you may well even have put a few points into Intimidate or Diplomacy (Int 18 gives 52 skill points for a Human Rogue, so lots of choice to maximise on that first level).

In any case, Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate are all skills based on Cha. Bluff worked well for me as I had put 4 points into it, so it had a 75% chance of succeeding. I find Bluff a useful skill generally if you have spare points and space for a bluff item, as the turn animation disrupts many nasty actions an enemy can take, so is e.g. great for Beholders (I even take it as a Sorcerer if I can, just because).

This is the stat that has had to be basically maxed to be of any use whatsoever for the past 4 years!

Due to monster CR bloat as the quests increase in difficulty - not in those first three quests in Korthos Village.

What you'd think coming into the game as a Cleric - I'd better get a Fighter/Barb hire - soon proves to be utterly wrong

Not with the level 1 hires. And there is nothing in the game recommending that you get a Cleric hire over the others in Korthos Village.

Arcane hires at low levels are atrocious

Indeed, but no-one has ever suggested they would be useful (I find them to be atrocious at all levels, personally). There are exactly 4 hirelings to choose from in Korthos Village, a new player should probably try all 4 and see for themselves what works and what doesn't.

And biggest issue of all - The main reason to have a hire isn't DPS it's HEALS!

Not in very low level quests in Korthos Village (are you seeing the pattern yet?). When you are typically getting hit for 2-3HP each time, the numerous Starter CLW potions are more than enough for the 4 starter quests, even on Elite.