Items we wished were different:

[HatsuharuZ]

I think that putting only weapons in CitW was a bad idea.

You see, once a given player has the bound-to-character raid weapon he or she wants, he might not bother with the raid that weapon comes from for a while. This is not the case with equippable non-weapon items, because each character has more than one item slot for equipment. Not so with weapons!

On another note, the low drop rates of Commendations of Heroism compared to Fall of Truth make CitW less desirable as well...

[Connman]

However, it was not our intent to create an item that you would want to equip every life from level 1 all the way to level 28,

well this really sucks, for years, since the introduction of TR, people have been asking for just this. When I TR I want to be able to go and grab a complete set of gear that is ML 1 and as I increase in level it increases in power appropriately. I have honestly given up after years of endless TR'ing even bothering to equip gear from my TR bank. The hours you have to spend taking things out, with the really bad lag and poorly designed TR bank, really is a deal breaker for me. I just wear my spear bane until whenever.

TR leveling gear would really make my life easier.

It doesn't need to be over powered, you could even make it less powerful than any rangen loot and it would still be the preferred item set because even if it fell behind in power, when you are on an endless TR, the benefit of never needing to go and spend hours messing with loot would be worth any loss of power VS best in slot.

It's not like the game is even that hard anymore, let the people that think this game is still super duper hard have the best in slot. I Just want something decent that will level in power so I can just play the game I like, killing hundreds of thousands of knolls, not inventory tetris.

Thanks and have a great day!

PS I STILL waiting for my champion crown in the store as a cosmetic Item. (I figured I might ask for something realistic at the same time as my dreamer post.)

[bartharok]

well this really sucks, for years, since the introduction of TR, people have been asking for just this. When I TR I want to be able to go and grab a complete set of gear that is ML 1 and as I increase in level it increases in power appropriately. I have honestly given up after years of endless TR'ing even bothering to equip gear from my TR bank. The hours you have to spend taking things out, with the really bad lag and poorly designed TR bank, really is a deal breaker for me. I just wear my spear bane until whenever.

TR leveling gear would really make my life easier.

It doesn't need to be over powered, you could even make it less powerful than any rangen loot and it would still be the preferred item set because even if it fell behind in power, when you are on an endless TR, the benefit of never needing to go and spend hours messing with loot would be worth any loss of power VS best in slot.

It's not like the game is even that hard anymore, let the people that thing this game is still super duper hard have the best in slot. I Just want something decent that will level in power so I can just play the game I like, killing hundreds of thousands of knolls, not inventory tetris.

Thanks and have a great day!

PS I STILL waiting for my champion crown in the store as a cosmetic Item. (I figured I might ask for something realistic at the same time as my dreamer post.)

A leveling item would cause a lessening in the need for storage, which would also mean less money for DDO, not to mention that it would make the game more boring, since you wouldnt need to make shortterm plans, just a single plan for 1-28. (Shortterm for me means getting a certain item, since it would be better for me at that point, but not one that i want to keep for the next X lives.)

[Connman]

A leveling item would cause a lessening in the need for storage, which would also mean less money for DDO, not to mention that it would make the game more boring, since you wouldnt need to make shortterm plans, just a single plan for 1-28. (Shortterm for me means getting a certain item, since it would be better for me at that point, but not one that i want to keep for the next X lives.)

Well TY for the quick reply, or wait your just some random guy who apparently has turbine's books, maybe you could share those with us. Maybe if they put these items in paid expansions people would buy them for just that. In the hour it takes me to find the level 5 item, I could be level 7. We all spend our time differently.

[Livmo]

I wish it had Search on it, so that I can keep it equipped at all times. The Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass out performs regarding search. So I carry both. If the Manual of Stealthy Pilfering had Search on it, I could save and inventory slot and wear it full-time.

[Connman]

Heart of Wood. We have several types , and I believe it has been mentioned before, but I would like a "Sacrificial Heart of Wood" that I can use on one of my several capped alts to regain half the XP they earned. Just a nice little BTA token, like all the other little XP tokens, that appears in the inventory of the first toon logged after the "sacrifice".

Thanks and have a great day!

[Chauncey1]

With all the recent changes to barbs and their ability to self heal, this item needs to be changed quite a bit. As it basically undoes all the aforementioned changes in its current iteration.

I wore it once...for about 3 minutes before I ripped it off, looked at it disapprovingly and put in my mules bank.

[Robai]

I wish that each pack (even old pack) should have some item giving a unique effect, which is not available anywhere else.
The drop rate should be low, but the effect should be powerful (useful for at least ML+6 levels, for example ML 10 item still useful for lvl 16 quests).

Most heroic named (non raid) items should be BtA since they are used only temporarily and there is no way to buy more BtC bank space (exceptions could be for some really powerful items, or the items that have very high drop rate).
Maybe make it this way: an item that is usually BtCoE can be BtAoE (10% chance), the chance is tripled if chest is opened at Elite Bravery Streak (keep in mind that we have champs now).

Improved Paralyzing (I mean the effect on weapon) stops working somewhere at lvls 22-24.
A paradox:
- Paralyzing low lvl mobs is pointless since they die too fast anyway
- Paralyzing high lvl EE mobs would be sweet, but sadly Improved Paralyzing never proc there

I wish heroic challenge weapons (both cannith and eveningstar) got the proper paragon 1.5[W] damage.

I believe the Eveningstar ones are fixed either for U24 Patch 1 or U25; we'll take a look at the Cannith ones in the near future.

Awesome, thanks!

[axel15810]

The specific instances you mentioned usually came with a level cap increase.
CITW was a level 24 Raid at a time when the highest-level Raid was 20.
Fall of Truth came next and was level 25, but there wasn't a ton of overlap between it and CITW's items in terms of item slot.
The Thunderholme raids were the first level 30 Raids, with gear up to ML28.
Sentient Items, while still early in the design process, will be a part of the level 30 endgame.

So yes, as the level cap got higher, the loot generally got stronger; it would be odd if it didn't. We do try to spread out some of the types of loot we put in Raids (take Mark of Death, which had no weapons), but weapons do have a general appeal to some players that other item types don't.

I appreciate the response.

I hope you do continue to spread out the loot in the coming endgame raids. I understand why you decided to overshadow the fall of truth and caught in the web loot since they aren't endgame raids. However, I'd love to have a reason to run them other than for fun.

Have you all considered introducing a raid saga to help with this problem of players having no reason to run older raids? Right now the vast majority of epic raids are rarely run because there's just no worthwhile rewards - XP/min is usually bad and the loot is all outdated.

I hope you do diversity the loot whenever we get to the final endgame raids. I know with sentient weapons deathwyrm will no longer be worth running. I'm just concerned that this trend will continue, and that each raid introduced will overshadow prior raids. It makes it so we only have one or two raids worth running at any time. I do think you did a good job with epic abbot, that raid didn't overshadow much previous raid gear and gave us a great piece of loot to fill a slot that was seriously lacking (trinket).

[Scrabbler]

To an extent, that has a lot to do with the D&D 3.5 base stats of Greatclubs. I'd still wager it's the best non-Raid Greatclub you can get at level 24, however, and that's what was being aimed for there.

I can probably think of 6+ Quarterstaffs that are better Greatclubs than that Greatclub... sure they don't technically match the definition, but they'd be superior replacements for the item.

The mistake was that aiming at creating any Greatclub is a waste of time, until you do something like give Barbarian Ravager enhancements an option to get +1 crit range +1 crit mult with any Club / Greatclub (which stacks with Critical Rage). Until some kind of character build gets a specific large benefit for Greatclubs, don't bother. In the D&D 3.5 game, clubs and greatclubs weren't meant for long-term player usage anyway... they were an inferior weapon monsters carried.

[Inoukchuk]

well this really sucks, for years, since the introduction of TR, people have been asking for just this. When I TR I want to be able to go and grab a complete set of gear that is ML 1 and as I increase in level it increases in power appropriately. I have honestly given up after years of endless TR'ing even bothering to equip gear from my TR bank. The hours you have to spend taking things out, with the really bad lag and poorly designed TR bank, really is a deal breaker for me. I just wear my spear bane until whenever.

TR leveling gear would really make my life easier.

It doesn't need to be over powered, you could even make it less powerful than any rangen loot and it would still be the preferred item set because even if it fell behind in power, when you are on an endless TR, the benefit of never needing to go and spend hours messing with loot would be worth any loss of power VS best in slot.

It's not like the game is even that hard anymore, let the people that think this game is still super duper hard have the best in slot. I Just want something decent that will level in power so I can just play the game I like, killing hundreds of thousands of knolls, not inventory tetris.

Thanks and have a great day!

PS I STILL waiting for my champion crown in the store as a cosmetic Item. (I figured I might ask for something realistic at the same time as my dreamer post.)

Would be interesting to add something like this as a favor reward. Put it at like 4k favor and add a list like this maybe (chose one, BtA?):
Veterans Ring: ML 1: +1 (str/con/dec/int/wis/or cha). Bonus increases every 2 levels past first to +6.
Veterans Gloves: ML 1: +1 DEX. Bonus increases every 2 levels past first to +6.
Veterans Belt: ML 1: +10% fortification, proof against poison +1. Fortification increases 10%/level past first to 100%, Proof bonus increases every 2 levels to +10.
Veterans Goggles: ML 1: Detect secret doors. Gains blindness immunity at level 5. Gains truesight at level 13.
Veterans Boots: ML 1: Speed I, feather falling. Speed bonus increases every 2 levels to VI.
Veterans Bracers: ML 1: Potency +6. Potency bonus increases +6/2 levels to +66. Gains Blurry at level 4.
Veterans Necklace: ML 1: Resistance +1, proof against disease +1. Resistance increases every 2 levels to +6, Proof bonus increases every 2 levels to +10.
Veterans Helm: ML 1: Power I, Deadly I. Power increases every level to X, Deadly bonus increases every 2 levels to VI.
Veterans Cloak: ML 1: Lesser restoration 3/day. Gains deathblock at level 7.
Veterans Trinket: ML 1: +5% XP, +1 search, +1 spot, +1 disable. Skill bonuses increase +1/level to +13.
Veterans (weapon) ML 1:: +1 everbright of righteousness. Gains +1 every 2 (starting at 4th) levels to +5. Gains ghostbane at level 5.
Veterans (armor): ML 1: invulnerability. Gains +1/3 levels to +5. Invulnerability replaced by dr 5/- at level 10

[Seikojin]

Snip...

Not every named item is going to be spectacular for everyone, or even viable for everyone. Some may be a lot better for new players (who may not have farmed that one thing from that one old pack) than for vets. In the end, we always try to make new loot interesting, and useful to at least some builds at some levels, and a little different than what's out there for that item type at at that level.

Snip...

This is pretty much how I view all items in the game. They have a place for someone. May not be me, but it is for someone.

I think the best thing one could do is make a matrix/spreadsheet of all the items in the game. It would start as number/min level/name/type/etc. And then you can sort and filter what you would want and compare to everything at that level. If you did that, I am pretty sure you would see most items in fact are well balanced in the gorss term (If a weapon does less damage, it has more properties than the other item of the same min level that does more damage).

[SirValentine]

And this was pretty much my last coffin nail :-/

So to speak.

[viktorserak]

Hey, everyone. Still out of the office for the holidays, but saw a few interesting ideas in this thread and thought I'd take a little time to chime in.

(My (read viktorseraks) rant about mazzler)

Steelstar response:

1. To an extent, that has a lot to do with the D&D 3.5 base stats of Greatclubs.

2. I'd still wager it's the best non-Raid Greatclub you can get at level 24, however, and that's what was being aimed for there.

3. Admittedly, I'm a bit confused by your comment, though; the last feedback I can find from you about the Splinter called the last round of changes to it:

We really do pay attention to the feedback on items, even if we can't always make certain changes. I'd be interested in hearing more about what changed your opinion on the Splinter between then and now.


4. This is another tough bit about item creation in DDO; we have a lot of weapon types, and often times lesser-used types don't go over well when proposed (see above Greatclub) unless their power is skewed relatively high. That said, we've been trying to get more of the lesser-used item types in lately, and I'll make a note about Great Crossbows.

First of all Steel, thank you for taking some time from your free time to talk with us. I really apreticiate it and its a nice experience to have dev chime into topic just because he/she feels like it, So, thank you.

Second thing: I want to apologize a little for my rant about the mazzler - it is way too bitter and I feel kinda bad about it. My opinion on desigining of certain items (like Mazzler) is, however, as I described it: Someone important somewhere either doesnt really care or... I dont know. Things like mazzler strike me, like they were made for this reason:

"ok folks, we have to make 11 items in next update. Ideas?" ... 10 items later: "So, the last one will be greatclub. Just make something, so we have 11 items. Nah, i dont care if it will ever be used by anyone. We are missing one item and I want to go home."

That said: I am not saying that YOU dont care (you obviously do, because you came here in your freetime). or that this is the real reason. All I am saying is, that in each update, there are some items that are SO bad, that they have literally zero or close to zero use in entire game. And, ofc, there are some great (and not power creepy) items in every update that I am really happy about. But it is those "waste of space and lack of try" items that bugs me. Either make them "somehow" interesting, or just... dont make them and spend that time on making the game better in some other way.

Now to your response:

(I splitted you response into 4 paragraphs)

1. This is a valid point. However, it can be solved, DnD 3.5 rules wise by: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Greatclub - just make the greatclub REALLY big, give it higher base die (you did that with few weapons alrdy) and if you are feeling like it, make it attack slower (just like qstaff, just slower instead of faster).

2. I have to disagree with you on this, Steel: http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shining_Devastation is not a raid weapon, it has 10 levels lower min lvl and it has: Better crit multipiler, better crit range, better base dmg and does non-situational bonus dmg. With some abilities and spells that add dice to dmg (deadly weps, weapn attachement and many others in both heroic trees and Epic Destinies) and with attacks that adds dice (cleaves, huge amaunt of attacks from everywhere), the base dmg of SD is either comparable or, mostly, superior to Mazzler. Add more crits and higher crits and you have better weapon. And its non raid, and min lvl 14....

3. Nothing changed, my last comments to the mazzler in that thread are:

A (comment 193): mark this weapon as very weak and pretty much vendor-trash, that is propably not above decent random loot maul of the same level. Since they are both martial weapons, comparing it to maul is completely aproppriate.

B (comment 206): Basically, going with greatclubs is a choice to -partially- criple oneself. For thet reason only, a relevant epic greatclub should be a little stronger they you would think, to incite interest. Trust me - you cannot make it too powerfull. its still a greatclub.

C (comment 227): Also, any word on the Mazzler? So far it is still a weak weapon. I can imagine mazzler will look fantastic cosmetic wise and I would like to use it, but right now, it still seems like item no one/absolute minimum of people would be interested in :-/

Comment 227 is my last comment in said thread and that thread ends with comment 231.

4. I understand that and wish you good luck! Those items are less-used for a reason most of the times, so please be sure that you make them worthwile.

I do understand, that most of my post is criticism. I dont mean it in a bad way and I believe you actually do care and that you are doing what you consider to be best for the game and community. I hope that you can keep you euthusiasm and I cross my fingers for you :-)

[viktorserak]

So to speak.

That pun was intended, glad you catched it! .-D

[SkywalterDBZ]

To an extent, that has a lot to do with the D&D 3.5 base stats of Greatclubs. I'd still wager it's the best non-Raid Greatclub you can get at level 24, however, and that's what was being aimed for there.

Me and my static 3 man group do not raid *at all*. That said, my friend plays THF and has been in love with this tree trunk since the day he got it. So it does indeed feel powerful for a non-raider. Mission acomplished.

Now if only there were alternative (even painful) ways for us non-raiders to get raid level loot ... ::sigh::

[viktorserak]

That is a very fine weapon and I use it with great success in Thunderholme and E-Orchard.
Why do you think it's pure junk?

Hello, for these reasons as I stated in lammania discussion, post 142:


The Greatclub (mazzler or something) is terribly underpowered compared to these weapons:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemrow_Ma..._Weapon_Master - any variation is superior to the greatclub due to the critical range and critical multiplier this maul has. ML is 3 levels lower.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stout_Oak_Walking_Stick - superior in critical multiplier, DR breaking, Minimum level, attack speed, the fact that it is a simple weapon and the fact it has 2 ench trees that boost staves as weapon types significantly. ML 20 (4 level lower) and VERY easy to get. (P.S. Not to be mistaken - this staff is better then Mazzler even if I am not playing an acrobat or Henshin mystic)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shining_Devastation - superior in critical range, critical multiplier, base dice damage (if I can get +2w from any source, which is quite easy, I am pretty much even to the new club if that gets +2 as well - any more +w, even just +0,5 gives shining devastation clear edge) and its minimum level 14. That is 10 levels below min lvl of the new greatclub.

Also, NONE of these weapons has aligment restirction or punishes non chaotic users with neg level, unlike the new greatclub.

Also, these are just non-raid bludgedoning THF weapons. If we start with slashing non raid THF weapons, this list will be MUCH bigger. Considering that Slashing is the superior choice overall, the new greatclub should give some incentive to use blud. weapons in the first place.


P.S. Also in undead heavy content, Hammer of Life may be a very interesting choice over the mazzler. Granted that one is the only raid weapon on this list.

[JOTMON]

Comsidering that a random item can have only 2 effects, the augments are not sub-par. You can with luck add 2 more effects for no more increase in ML than what is caused by empty slots. And the augments you add can break the rules considering prefix/suffix..

That is your opinion.. but this was an thread for Items we wished were different:..

and it is the increase in level that I find disconcerting..
instead of a +15 disabling . it is now a +13 disabling and a clear augment slot... ugh soo close...

They wont be great, of course, but far from sub par.

That is my point.. before the feather changes..
the uncommon drop of an item with an augment was a great thing because it was better than the exact same thing without an augment.
Now it isn't.
Now you have the inherent cost of having the augment slot being applied to the level of the item

Exactly. Augment-slotted Random loot aren't necessarily going to be the strongest things out there, but their power lies in their versatility.

Apparently Steelstar is of the same mind that the augments as they currently are is fine.. so no hopes of my wish ever being recognized.
and I do understand that you can find something to augment into it that may be moderately useful like a VOM augment or some such thing..

Its just now anything I have found to date that has had an augment slot has been scrapped at the local vendor.

There is no more oh that is awesome. a great for that level and even better.. it has an augment slot..
the conversation is now.. oh too bad that has the augment slot.. it could have been a +higher on that bonus and then it would have been nice..
... does anyone want this thing for cannith crafting or something...no.. no one wants this thing .. I am gonna leave it in the chest.. anyone??/....well at least the local bartender has to buy it from me.

[Inoukchuk]

That is your opinion.. but this was an thread for Items we wished were different:..
and it is the increase in level that I find disconcerting..



That is my point.. before the feather changes..
the uncommon drop of an item with an augment was a great thing because it was better than the exact same thing without an augment.
Now it isn't.
Now you have the inherent cost of having the augment slit being applied to the level of the item




Apparently Steelstar is of the same mind that the augments as they currently are is fine.. so no hopes of my wish ever being recognized.
and I do understand that you can find something to augment into it that may be moderately useful like a VOM augment or some such thing..

Its just now anything I have found to date that has had an augment slot has been scrapped at the local vendor.

There is no more oh that is awesome. a great for that level and even better.. it has an augment slot..
the conversation is now.. oh too bad that has the augment slot.. it could have been a +higher on that bonus and then it would have been nice..
... does anyone want this thing for cannith crafting or something...no.. no one wants this thing .. I am gonna leave it in the chest.. anyone??/....well at least the local bartender has to buy it from me.

For what it's worth I completely agree. And especially for anything with a slot better than clear. Green slot? Oh, that'll cost you +4 on the ML.... greeaaaat. Useless. The only reason I would take these at all are for ML 20 cannith crafting (i.e. crafted boss beater with a red augment, or maybe a +6con 100% fort, blue slot, clear slot belt). Even then... meh. If they reduced the enhancement cost of all the augment slots by 1 it would be exciting to get them (clear = +0, red/yellow/blue = +1... heck maybe green/purple/yellow also +1).

[Chauncey1]

Hello, for these reasons as I stated in lammania discussion, post 142:


The Greatclub (mazzler or something) is terribly underpowered compared to these weapons:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Itemrow_Ma..._Weapon_Master - any variation is superior to the greatclub due to the critical range and critical multiplier this maul has. ML is 3 levels lower.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stout_Oak_Walking_Stick - superior in critical multiplier, DR breaking, Minimum level, attack speed, the fact that it is a simple weapon and the fact it has 2 ench trees that boost staves as weapon types significantly. ML 20 (4 level lower) and VERY easy to get. (P.S. Not to be mistaken - this staff is better then Mazzler even if I am not playing an acrobat or Henshin mystic)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shining_Devastation - superior in critical range, critical multiplier, base dice damage (if I can get +2w from any source, which is quite easy, I am pretty much even to the new club if that gets +2 as well - any more +w, even just +0,5 gives shining devastation clear edge) and its minimum level 14. That is 10 levels below min lvl of the new greatclub.

Also, NONE of these weapons has aligment restirction or punishes non chaotic users with neg level, unlike the new greatclub.

Also, these are just non-raid bludgedoning THF weapons. If we start with slashing non raid THF weapons, this list will be MUCH bigger. Considering that Slashing is the superior choice overall, the new greatclub should give some incentive to use blud. weapons in the first place.


P.S. Also in undead heavy content, Hammer of Life may be a very interesting choice over the mazzler. Granted that one is the only raid weapon on this list.

That 1st link doesn't work, btw.

Anyway, none of which makes the Mizzen Mast Splinter "useless". I think it's a great weapon, because it is, or was, relatively easy to acquire. All those you've listed with the exception of the Walking Stick, are likely very, very rare drops. On my Horc Barb and Dorf Fighter, they work quite well as undead beaters. With skellies anyway. For the spongy undead thingies, I think The Hunter's Slayer works very well. It seems to work on everything in Epic Orchard...but I digress.

Is the Mizzen Mast Splinter perfect? Nope. But it will do very well for my toons that use it until something better comes along.