Barbarians - The Follow Up Thread

[Faltout]

Vampiric Bond is broken. It has no minimum Bond requirement and it doesn't apply melee power as advertised. Also, at Bond 120 (which I think was the old bond value?) a second vampiric bond (lol?) comes into play, meaning that if you have 0 temp HP, you get 40 temp HP with 2 hits. If the first 20 hit points are not expended, only one of the bonds refreshes its timer in the 9 seconds.

Other than that, (I have a mostly occult slayer) that healing is certainly more than enough if the monsters are not hitting you with large chunks of damage. You can keep battling and healing through most trash without outside help.

[ramachandra108]

Hi..Ty for the update. Its lot more fun to play a barbarian these days. Having said that..i have an issue with Visage of terror...it stops working completely after 10 or so minutes...inside wilderness area or dungeon. I have to quit and log back in to get it to work again. Anyone else having this issue?

[bbqzor]

We don't want players to feel that changes we make will never be revisited.

I applaud this intent, but understand that (long time) players have had to deal with this many times before. I hope the future sheds a new light on how such things are handled.

We are looking specifically for feedback on how the three barbarian trees are working for you. We are looking for your thoughts on Occult Slayer, Frenzied Berserker, and Ravager. Are they fun? Do the trees seem effective? How do you feel barbarian compares to other classes?

You ask three questions there: Fun, Effective, Comparative. Ill reply to each.

Frenzy is fun. Not because of any development level changes, the pass largely ignored most (if not all) of the concerns regarding things that should actually be added or subtracted. But solely because self-damage was removed. That change alone made the existing tree playable again. Everything else which happened to this tree is essentially one of two things: removing some ill-conceived penalty (like losing ac/prr/etc), or adding generic dps/melee power to keep up with a modern ddo. Just because its fun to be able to power up all your rages doesnt mean there are no not-fun things in the tree. The frenzy times are terribly short resulting in a lot of micromanagement. There are poorly costed abilities like Power Rage, its 6 AP for at most 3 dmg with a 2hd (if the 3 str rounds your score up) which is irritating. The tree seems to be focused on generic sources of dps rather than strength, which makes it difficult to multiclass or aid abilities like tactics. The Capstone is at odds with other barbarian-centric abilities. The whole thing is basically the same mess before... it just doesnt kill you and its dps level is closer to a modern value. So sure, its fun to super rage up and cleave like a top, but its full of flaws. Frenzy has the lowest +hp... that makes no sense either. Etc.

As for effective, Frenzy can be. It does enough area dps to hold its own even against other contemporary builds. Is it the best? No, certainly not. It gives up a lot for what it has, and what it has isnt anything unique you cant bring to the table through another avenue which is less limited. A Vanguard can easily get both cleaves, whirlwind instead of supreme, have the essentially the same AE damage, only also bring heavy armor and shield prr to the table. And it doesnt require rage, so can self heal much easier, while also getting the same 10% speed from a defensive stance which offers half the stats rage does. That doesnt mean a FB cant contirbute, only that theres no reason to take FB over something else. It compares equally, more or less, dps wise... while losing out in almost any other area.

So what should happen to it? A very discerning retuning of some AP costs, and restoring some things which are "missing" from a player perspective. Like making sure FB isnt the lowest hp barb, adding Str where it should be (in addition to frenzies... FB should get more str, not just trade gaining it one place for somewhere else). Rework the capstone to play nice with other barb stuff (or addressing those other barb abilities which require you to be like <50% or <30% etc... that might be an even better solution as they suffer their own improbabilities). Ensure things like Tantrum actually have a real DC which can work beyond level 12. Make Blood Tribute less punitive so people might use it, or make the benefit worth the cost. Realize that 3 Str only while raging isnt so powerful to require 6 AP. The tree needs to actually EVOLVE, rather than just "we removed the penalties that honestly never should have been there, oh and added melee power, so were cool now right". As for the healing... if its there it should be actually relevant, but frenzy wasnt even about being self sufficient. It was about doing more dps for more risk. Right now its kind of equal dps for much more risk. Need to take dps up a bit by thoughtfully evolving the tree, and take risk down a bit by adding something like "shrugs off blows"... maybe it can have a faster short term regen with a chance to proc when hit like a guard. Rather than "I afk for 10 mins to heal up for no reason". Again, temp hp might be a good idea here.


Occult Slayer is fun. The fix to weapon bond and the additions of some new benefits to existing things really helped the tree. It does play like an occult slayer should, laughing at casters and running amok... when the capstone is working. This needs attention. It should be on 24/7, even when Con score changes occur. Setting one variable to equal another should be rather easy, I hope that bug can get ironed out. That said, spending bond needs to be looked at. All or nothing on the heal is tough. And as others have pointed out, the dps options are cumbersome and not exactly on par. Its a great mechanic, some fine tuning might be nice though. Maybe how much it spends could be 5x barb level, with the amount going up a bit to keep scale or something. You might also want to cap the amount of stored bond at 10x barb level. Both of those might make using it a little less of a gamble, and a bit safer to multiclass with. At any rate, of all the trees, I think this one experienced the best playability increase. Frenzy plays exactly the same you just dont kill yourself. And ravager still suffers all kinds of identity crises. But Occult went from difficult to use but playable, to now playing well with a good quality of life.

But is it effective? Well, against casters sure, or in high casting areas. There are times this really shines, like fighting waves of beholders, going up against a ton of magic missile spam casters, running headlong though cc like disco, etc. But it just doesnt really do much damage. For something that essentially mandates you go full 20 barb, and then spend 41+ AP, it gives precious little return in the one area barbarians *have* to have, as they have nothing else: dps. I mean really, other than 1d20 force/second and +1 crit mult on 19-20, the tree has only Driving Force and Seekers Strike. Driving Force, even if you ran it 24/7, is an average of only 5 melee power. Seekers Strike is maybe okay for some big hits during an action boost or something, but with its cost and limit to a single attack, it doesnt bring much to the typical barbarian bag of cleaves, glances, etc.

Like Frenzy, it needs a rework, though perhaps not as bad. Making the feedback on Vicious Strike *really* significant will help by giving them a great dps tool thats only useful where it should be thematically. Doing a little work on how bond is spent, and re-examining Driving Force and Seekers Strike can help with the trees "unique mechanic". Maybe Vampiric Bond can also gain 1 hp per hit actual healing. And Bond of Destruction should maybe move off 50% limit, and instead have +1 mult at T4 and +1 range at T5 (so kinda like half frenzy, half ravager). I mean whatever happens, it needs to do some more dps. A barbarian that can kinda tank vs casters but does little dps, isnt really all that helpful compared to what other build you might put in a party. Its fun, but its not really a strong choice many times. This is one case where the unique fun aspect is completely there, it just needs stats to back it up.


Finally, Ravager. Is it fun? Eh... to some people maybe. Basically the tree only has two things going for it. One, you heal on-hit. This gives any barb that is not 2hd (which I freely admit wouldnt be my first choice, but lots of people like twf barb or splash barb on twf or what not, so its good to see the trees support another style at least one place). And two, the crit range. The question is, are those two things so much fun you can deal with throwing away 30 AP to get them. My answer is no, but for some it might be yes. At best, this tree is on the fence.

So is it effective? Well, again tough answer. Those two abilities are. Proc'ing self heals and having a huge crit range are certainly great. And they work. And its cool. But theres lots of builds with a good crit range nowadays. While good, it doesnt stand out as a reason to really do this the way occult has a unique offering. So is proc'ing self heals effective? Well yes, sure, it lets you survive well. But again, you only need that ability due to rage stopping all the other ways one might go about having a good survivability. So in the end... at best this tree is kind of reinventing the wheel just to land up at the same place but in a shoddy knockoff car.

The tree needs an almost total revamp, in terms of *attention to playability*. It can keep the same kind of stuff, but man, does it need to be tuned to be *actually playable*. Bully is only usable with the capstones fear, which only works if the mobs make a save (which they will since the dc is garbage, but ideally you shouldnt ever be hoping "oh man I hope my ability doesnt work"). Itd be nice to see them get some kind of other cc ability to utilize it, like "pain touch" paralyzing a humanoid mob briefly like the monk finisher does... and also one which doesnt *cost rages*. Because yea, flaw there. The entire cruel cut line needs a rework, Ive said numerous times how the whole thing is tied to conditions the mobs quickly become immune to making it pointless to spend AP on. The idea of adding agro abilities to this tree is a lost cause, as barbarians generally dont want to be getting hit; and similarly the whole pain line should be a little more forgiving it its effects and proc rates in light of that. Similarly, the fear effects (aura of fear, demoralizing success, fear me, capstone) are peripheral to anything the barbarian generally cares about. Lowering mob will saves? Meh. If it had some of the useful fear effects (reducing the run speed of mobs it has feared, a chance to proc PK on vorpals like Nightmare only passively, the pain tree providing a shaken effect on being hit, or another one providing it on hit as bladeforged)... those would all be useful. A barbarian which slows down mob run speed, can proc PK, and shakens mobs he hits or that hit him, is offering -2 to all saves not just will, and aiding the party with mob management and the occasional quick kill. Im not saying all of those should replace whats there, only that for the fear effects chosen to be included... the choices seem poor. They dont work with other barbarian mindsets.


Shrug. Lot of typing, but trying to highlight play-feel and thought-process more than stats. Anyone can look at the Subsiding Fury passive in Ravager core and say "man thats kind of garbage" since stacks of fury are not an necessary thing to boost. But hopefully this pushes some directions to look which arent as obvious on paper and may require time logged in. Hopefully helpful. Cheers.

[Thar]

Greetings,

We wanted to create a follow up thread to see how players are doing with their barbarians. We wanted to get impressions of the tree changes now that people have had time to play with them on live for a bit. Game balance and quality is an ongoing process. We don't want players to feel that changes we make will never be revisited.

We are looking specifically for feedback on how the three barbarian trees are working for you. We are looking for your thoughts on Occult Slayer, Frenzied Berserker, and Ravager. Are they fun? Do the trees seem effective? How do you feel barbarian compares to other classes?

Sev~

12 FIGHTER 6 BARB 2 ROGUE

Too many enhancement point. I couldn't build a good barb and keep the dwarf con to damage enhancement. Not enough points to get to a tier 5 healing and enough heal amp in the other two trees to make up for only 6 barb (if ravager).

Frenzy healing = useless and why is it a choice with another dps option at tier 5. it should be always available no matter what else you pick as the point of this update was to give barbs some sort of self healing.
Ravager healing = too infrequent and only good for full or almost full barbs due to running off barb level so it was **** with only 6 barb. splash barbs might as well give up. class seems best with twf which isn't a lot of barbs, but then has cleave... no synergy or common theme here.
occult slayer - didn't try on live but on lam was the only good healing 300 ish by the time the timer reset and more if you save it. lowest dps so not really an upgrade other than the healing and the bond fixes were nice.

dps... have to take frenzy or minimal improvement. since frenzy is crappy healing then you weigh good dps vs self healing. not a good tradeoff for barbs since your other self healing is blocked.

For a splash barb there is minimal improvement. a bit more heal amp but nothing to write home about. 2/3 of the healing is useless. The 1/3 that is useful is in the **** dps tree. I feel like i still need cocoon, still feat starved and minimally better than before since pots don't really cut it for epic. Heorics are probably fine, the healing just doesn't scale to epic damage. And no DR improvement so DR is still a useless class feature after lvl 10ish as the damage ramps up too far or gear replaces it. rage is still minimal improvement in str/con so 4 damage 80 hps vs ability to use cocoon. not a valid tradeoff.

still a subpar fighter that fails with either no dps/ok heal (compared to cocoon) for occult slayer, good dps no heal frenzy, or ok if you twf non splash ravager.

none address the barb core abilities - Damage reduction caps at what 7? DPS and rage. why not make dps/rage better with a tier 4/5 ability. taking less damage and doing more damage when raged would be best. the update gave them a little bit better survivability when healed and some limted healing. nothing which will help at end game . (eh isn't end game)

[Qezuzu]

i dont know what dream world you are living in...twitching... lol.

Do you not know what twitching is? You move while fighting to use the faster attack animation. THF while twiching IS the best melee DPS.

Barbarians are good DPS, the issue only seems to be the penalties while raging.

[Annyee]

Barbs are better but they are still not that good. DPS wise you have to work very hard to outperform Bards. Lots of bugs still in the class and trees.

[silinteresting]

ive been running a 9 barb 9 bard 2 rogue s/kai and i have to admit
it has been a lot of fun.

the barb was in occult slayer, the bard was in swashbuckler and
the rogue was just for evasion.

a very nice fun build that is able to solo epic elite content nicely
and in a party.

your friend sil

[HatsuharuZ]

I think that Frenzied Berserker and Occult Slayer are very useful as-is.

However, it seems to me that Ravager is the weakest tree. Some issues:

1) "Cruel Cut" constitution damage is nullified by Epic Ward 80% of the time. Combined with it's cooldown, Cruel Cut becomes impractical in epics.

2) Ravager has multiple abilities that decrease the saves of affected enemies, one way or another. However, most of the abilities which the Ravager has that benefit from the save-decreasing abilities are save-decreasing abilities; the exception is the capstone. Essentially, the Ravager can slightly decrease the offensive abilities of enemies, but there is very little increase in damage-dealing or crowd-control capability until the player gains access to the Ravager capstone. What the Ravager tree needs is a way to render enemies helpless or some other negative status that benefits from the already-present save debuffs, and it needs to be available before level 20.

[Tilomere]

The new core enhancements are good and I use them from all 3 trees for bulk. It is kindof fun being super tanky.

Blood Tribute surpasses all healing requirements for heroics so far (lvl 16), so I didn't get any of the T5 healing abilities, or any of the T5 abilities period. Just low tier and core abilities from each tree. Works fine and I enjoy never needing to heal.

My solo Druid/Barb/Rogue build under the old 1d6 healing on hit Blood Strength would have healed 75 hp/sec in combat for a non-exploit extreme build. New build using core healing AMP without any T5 healing will heal 225 hp/sec instead using a blue bar. So you sorta shoved barb into far more powerful ED healing, but it is also less popular and less available blue-bar barb healing.

I guess the point is that you nerfed something that is completely outclassed and made irrelevant by Blood Tribute in Heroics, and that wasn't strong enough to be relevant in the first place in EE for all but a few very strange builds.

The level up bonuses to barb rage should all be doubled every patch until the question "Is it worthwhile to rage?" answers yes.

[phyrephoenix]

I play a SWf occult slayer, my prr is and mrr is about comparable to my swf pally as is my dps. However, my ability to self heal comes only from pots and with silver flame pots having the huge drawback its a real inconvenience. Also the capstone for occult slayer is still broken and just falls off randomly. There needs to be viable end game healing pots (removing the drawback for the sf pots would help) to make playing a barb possible for end game. Also the only real option a pure barb has for negating spells is the SR that occult slayer provides, and with it broken, i get held quite often in EE. The dps needs to go up, due to the lack of survivability that is innate to barbs, to make playing them plausible in EE.

[nibel]

My only feedback thus far is that I am deeply disapointed that WF barbarians do not get a repair option to go with all that self-healing options. Or that the core hamp don't raise repair amp as well. It was already better for forgeds to go with positive healing than repairs because of previous hamp sources, and now it is even better.

As is, warforged options on repair are mostly a flavor option than a top option. Or if you are bladeforged (who have the only source of repair amp item in the game).

[edrein]

My only feedback thus far is that I am deeply disapointed that WF barbarians do not get a repair option to go with all that self-healing options. Or that the core hamp don't raise repair amp as well. It was already better for forgeds to go with positive healing than repairs because of previous hamp sources, and now it is even better.

As is, warforged options on repair are mostly a flavor option than a top option. Or if you are bladeforged (who have the only source of repair amp item in the game).

Indeed, this doesn't work with undead forms either. I had tried to mention this back on Lamania but it seems like the devs don't care about non-positive energy based healing effects.

[XxJFGxX]

Sigh so was testing the Barb enhancements and kinda disappointed. FB is cool I suppose, OS is pretty good with the One With Spirit healing you by a huge amount but Ravager sucks outloud.

Fear me!: When you intimidate, affected enemies are Shaken for 6 seconds
This sucks and I don't see the reason of spending 2 AP to take something to shaken mobs. It does virtually nothing of merit in epics. I say change it when you intimidate mobs have to make a will save dc or be despaired for 4-6 secs. When they save then they get shaken.


Aura of Fear: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength and Charisma.

Rank 2: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength, Charisma, Dexterity and Wisdom.
Rank 3: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to all ability scores.


Another ability that isn't worth the AP. Doesn't hold up in epics. Should be as follows:

Rank 1: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength and Charisma.
Rank 2: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength, Charisma, Dexterity and Wisdom.
Rank 3: Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to all ability scores, -5 melee and ranged damage and -5 spellpower. (Every additional epic level inceases this by an additional 5.)

Perhaps put a save on this when mobs enter your aura of fear.



Dismember: Cruel Cut additional slows enemy movement speed, or slows attack speed, or deals 2d4/2d6/2d8 bane damage, or deals 6d4/6d6/6d8 bane damage. This bane damage scales with 200% Melee Power.

Bane damage seems erratic to me. I believe this change would be better than it is.


Dismember: Cruel Cut additionally slows enemy movement speed, or slows attack speed, deals 2d4/2d6/2d8 bane damage on HIT, on CRIT deals an extra 6d4/6d6/6d8 bane damage. This bane damage scales with 200% Melee Power.



Blood Strength: Each time you land a hit there is a 20% chance you heal positive damage equal to half your Barbarian level. Each time you kill an opponent you are healed for 20 hit points. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.

Good idea but needs something more. Also half your barb level? Weak. How about Blood Strength gives a boost whenever you kill a mob while raged like: 10% rage bonus to weapon damage, 5% doublestrike, 10% rage bonus to melee attack speed.



Uncanny Balance: You are immune to most knockdowns and slippery surfaces

This is kinda meh. I think something better can be put here instead of this tbh.


Critical Rage: Increases your critical threat range by 1/2 when raging

This is one of the only good abilities in the tree for Ravager but needs a little something more. Perhaps the second upgrade of this should also increase your crit damage multiplier by +1 on a 19 - 20


Any thoughts?

[XxJFGxX]

My only feedback thus far is that I am deeply disapointed that WF barbarians do not get a repair option to go with all that self-healing options. Or that the core hamp don't raise repair amp as well. It was already better for forgeds to go with positive healing than repairs because of previous hamp sources, and now it is even better.

As is, warforged options on repair are mostly a flavor option than a top option. Or if you are bladeforged (who have the only source of repair amp item in the game).

I agree. I think they should make the healing cores affect both positive and repair.

[flagged]

Greetings,

We wanted to create a follow up thread to see how players are doing with their barbarians. We wanted to get impressions of the tree changes now that people have had time to play with them on live for a bit. Game balance and quality is an ongoing process. We don't want players to feel that changes we make will never be revisited.

We are looking specifically for feedback on how the three barbarian trees are working for you. We are looking for your thoughts on Occult Slayer, Frenzied Berserker, and Ravager. Are they fun? Do the trees seem effective? How do you feel barbarian compares to other classes?

Sev~

What a shame you didn't want the input before you reduced them into sacrificial vehicles to push the Hamp changes as opposed to the fantastic class from the source material. It also doesn't help that a Hamp revision really wasn't needed, and was just a idea someone want'ed to float so they could add developing and overseeing it's addition to the game mechanics to their CV as DDO winds down.

Honestly I'm hesitant to expend any energy giving input about the Barbs because I feel it will be ignored wholesale just as it all was in the lead up to the Barb revamp. I can't help but think that this is really just a thread where we are supposed to say what we think about the Barbs in the narrow spectrum of the changes forced on us.

As I said, what a shame, a class with a rich history in the game, and a extensive history in fantasy literature as well ignored and hobbled for some agenda no one will share with us.

[Hawkwier]

Greetings,

We wanted to create a follow up thread to see how players are doing with their barbarians. We wanted to get impressions of the tree changes now that people have had time to play with them on live for a bit. Game balance and quality is an ongoing process. We don't want players to feel that changes we make will never be revisited.

We are looking specifically for feedback on how the three barbarian trees are working for you. We are looking for your thoughts on Occult Slayer, Frenzied Berserker, and Ravager. Are they fun? Do the trees seem effective? How do you feel barbarian compares to other classes?

Sev~

I've wasted enough of my time telling you how to fix barbs Sev.

I will confirm though: You failed.

If you seriously want to fix us, go spend some effort to find and read what I wrote.

I really don't see any point in this thread given how much feedback you already have. Which was ignored.

I now play some half baked pally clone with a high Int to add in some badly needed dps from Harper. It's not really a barb anymore, but has 18 barb levels. Barbarians are dead. What we have now are barbrainians. Thanks.

[lyrecono]

Greetings,

We wanted to create a follow up thread to see how players are doing with their barbarians. We wanted to get impressions of the tree changes now that people have had time to play with them on live for a bit. Game balance and quality is an ongoing process. We don't want players to feel that changes we make will never be revisited.

We are looking specifically for feedback on how the three barbarian trees are working for you. We are looking for your thoughts on Occult Slayer, Frenzied Berserker, and Ravager. Are they fun? Do the trees seem effective? How do you feel barbarian compares to other classes?

Sev~

a tad bit late, i assume you have read the feed back from the previous threads?
in short, the only thing the frenzied berzerker barb was good for in the past was doing dps, basicly being the sorc of the melee's, with epic content (U14 to U22) being a barb was useless, not enough dps, not enough ways to survive, the enhancement pass was pittefull at best.
the change to pprr in U23 helped somewhat if you multiclassed fighter or took heavy armor proficiency, selfhealing and dps was still pretty bad
Then the "barb pass" of U24 came, barb dps still lags behind, there is no significant benifit to take barbarian over paladin or bard to gain melee dps, the sole reason for being a barb
too many clickies to do so called "dps", most don't work in EH and EE
to much filler in order to gain moderatly usefull stuff, especialy when not using 2handed fighting enhancements.

I've wasted enough of my time telling you how to fix barbs Sev.

I will confirm though: You failed.

If you seriously want to fix us, go spend some effort to find and read what I wrote.

I really don't see any point in this thread given how much feedback you already have. Which was ignored.

I now play some half baked pally clone with a high Int to add in some badly needed dps from Harper. It's not really a barb anymore, but has 18 barb levels. Barbarians are dead. What we have now are barbrainians. Thanks.

+1 of if you, if i could.

Sadly, my sentiments too
Seeing all our feedback was awaste

[RTFM]

I rolled a pure human barbarian. Here is my feedback:

1. The healing amp is great. With one pali PL and human enhancements and some gear, my own twisted consecration with healing ground hits me for 290hp a tick. This is a major improvement for self sufficient barbs. I don't even really need to drink pots in epics if I twist consecration and healing ground. with ~1800 HP fully raged, etc. and this self healing the barb becomes extremely self sufficient. I know a lot of people will complain about having to twist in consecration and healing ground, but it is a great tool that works very well with the new barb healing amp.

2. The ravenger capstone, visage of terror, when fully buffed, raged, with con yugo pots, actually works. And its brilliant! I love it! Seems to fade out (kind of like the occult slayer spell pen capstone), and not work after a while...go figure. The graphics are great it just looks real cool seeing 6 PK's go off at once in a pile of mobs and they all die! Very good job on this one.

3. The tier V ravenger stuff is also good, expecially the strike that gives HP. If you run in SWF the healing from this is very noticeable. Did not test with THF.

Yes, the DPS seems less than a Pali because no Zeal and no Holy Sword, and nothing really replaces those to up the base damage.

Greetings,

We wanted to create a follow up thread to see how players are doing with their barbarians. We wanted to get impressions of the tree changes now that people have had time to play with them on live for a bit. Game balance and quality is an ongoing process. We don't want players to feel that changes we make will never be revisited.

We are looking specifically for feedback on how the three barbarian trees are working for you. We are looking for your thoughts on Occult Slayer, Frenzied Berserker, and Ravager. Are they fun? Do the trees seem effective? How do you feel barbarian compares to other classes?

Sev~

[kmoustakas]

I will start by saying I love the fact that the class enhancements are under review and updated.

Now, as far as barbarians are concerned, I believe there is a mistake in the thought process. You tried to adjust barbarians to today's ddo 'endgame' of epic elites. Epic elite is all about survivability, self healing and damage avoidance, something that as a class barbarians are ill suited to. The current changes DID indeed succeed into making them a lot more durable. They really increased their survivability.

But that should not have been the target to begin with. Because this just makes them worse paladins and not better barbarians. A barbarian should be like a machine gun. You need one guy to shoot and one to reload (the healer). But you do more damage than everyone else except the bombs. Right now, paladins and bards both are more durable (which they should) AND do more melee dps (which they shouldn't) AND have class features that benefit the whole party (aura/songs) AND have spells.

Whereas people who are trying to play barbarians because they like the flavor, avoid raging so they can coccoon.

[Wh070aa]

Barbarian splash here, I actually removed all my barbarian enchantments after the pass.

There is no real difference, only bunch of stuff is broken, and doesn't work.

Also the champions insta-kill me in melee range.

800hp is just not enough to be in melee range on epic hard. And the constant dispels and negative levels+ hireling AI...No rage, or die from negative level spam. And I was gonna do Barbarian past life on my completionist. The damage spikes, and no access to fast healing, and lack of people in my timezone (especially healers), makes this not fun to play.

Buggy and unplayable/10, would been ok, if you didn't change the monsters.